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Assassin's Creed III Follow

#1 Mar 05 2012 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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While it's been long suspected, last week it was all but confirmed that AC3 will take place in the colonies during the American Revolutionary War. Ubisoft released a teaser trailer today that honestly, looks pretty **** awesome (and confirms the new location and time period). It's possibly NSFW due to violence and, well it's a video game trailer, so I'll spoiler tag it.



The new protagonist this time around is named Ratohnhake:ton, of both Native American and English heritage, adopts the name Connor as he picks up the mantel of war between the Assassins and the Templars. I've always been a fan of the series and it's story, but the gameplay has been getting a bit stale. Without huge cities to climb around in and with what looks like a completely different set of gear, this game, if done well, could breath new life into the series right when it was starting to need it.
#2 Mar 05 2012 at 6:34 PM Rating: Good
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All I'm saying is that the outfits better serve as actual camouflage this time.


Also that British soldier was playing his musket wrong.
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#3 Mar 05 2012 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed. My favorite part of the AC games is the care with which they rendered the environments. Not in the gaming-related sense, but the historical one.

Granted, they haven't been perfect. Rome during the period of ACB would have actually looked like Florence from AC2, so they chose to use a later period's architecture to create variety.

But still, the general layout of the cities wasn't bad, nor was the size.

The Americas? Yeeeeeeah, not so much. Cities were MUCH more spread out in the Americas, with significant spaces between districts. And since they grew out of (generally speaking) plantation communities, even many of the standard houses weren't within an [assassin's jump] reach.

Philadelphia was one of the most significant cities, so most of the game would likely take place there. It's population during the Revolution was about half that of Rome in ACB (lower if we believe the census data). I can't find hard facts on population density, but I believe it was significantly lower than Rome.

I just don't see any way they can remain remotely true to the history without maintaining the platforming. And that really, really sucks.
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#4 Mar 05 2012 at 7:12 PM Rating: Good
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I just don't see any way they can remain remotely true to the history without maintaining the platforming. And that really, really sucks.


I suppose a lot of treetop to treetop, like in the trailer.

Honestly, with all the other possible time periods, I feel like revolutionary America isn't really the best pick.

Now, Victorian England? Holy **** I would play the **** out of that.

Edited, Mar 5th 2012 8:13pm by IDrownFish
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#5 Mar 05 2012 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't think of a game set in Revolutionary America that's not a battle/city sim so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt just for innovation and seeing how it pans out.
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#6 Mar 05 2012 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Know what I can't believe? That they passed on the French Revolution. Seriously, wtf Ubisoft? If anything lends itself to the past AC games, it's that. Complete redesign of the balance of power between the Three Estates, showing the move of the Templars from the Religious and Nobility to the Bourgeois? Rise of Bonaparte, and spread of the French Empire? The Madness of Robespierre and Saint-Just?

Amazing landmarks like the Louvre and Versailles?

I mean, c'mon...

I can only hope that they intend to make that the sequel. I will also be seriously disappointed if Adams and Hamilton are not Templars in this one.

Hell, I would have even chosen the British invasion of India over the American Revolution...

Actually, I'm amazed they chose the Revolution and not the fall of the Articles of Confederation. America was way more interesting during the Constitutional Convention...
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#7 Mar 05 2012 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Given that the French Revolution came after the American Revolution, I wouldn't yet say that they "passed" on it. Next time!
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#8 Mar 05 2012 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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I actually like the pick. It's entirely different from the last few games, which have indeed grown stale (bought Revelations two weeks ago, I haven't really been so excited about it. I actually put it down after two 1 hour sessions).

I'm curious as to how the game will work out, I doubt they'll throw away all of the platforming that made it so great. As for the population density, I don't think that matters too much. It's not like they're the ones making AC what it is. I'd agree if we were talking about pedestrians in Grand Theft Auto. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. ACII was a massive improvement over AC, I'll just assume ACIII improves some more.
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#9 Mar 05 2012 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Given that the French Revolution came after the American Revolution, I wouldn't yet say that they "passed" on it. Next time!


That's why I said I hope they at least make it the sequel. :P

Thinking about it, I think my knowledge of the revolution in general is just kinda bringing the topic down. A lot of what interests me in the story aspects of AC games is the political intrigue. Not that the AR lacks it, but it definitely doesn't have the kind of conflict that Cesare Borgia created in Italy.

But if you are going to do America, the only other conflict that would work (realistically) is the Civil War. And I think that one might hit too close to home for an American audience, especially given Ubisoft is Canadian.
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#10 Mar 06 2012 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I had been expecting French Revolution as well.

But I'm actually rather pleased with the pick. They wore out their welcome by making those two sequels to ACII (both of which I skipped). I was getting rather sour about the direction of the series.

A change of pace was needed, and I think a dramatic setting change helps quite a bit. I really like that they seem to be taking a lot of cues from Red Dead Redemption. If they can bring in RDR's great sense of outdoor environments, I think there'll be potential for ACIII to really impress.

I've only one complaint, and that's that they really should have made the Assassin garb look more "of the time". Dude sticks out like a sore thumb in that getup.
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#11 Mar 06 2012 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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I like ACB. Still haven't finished it, actually, but like it whenever I play (I just have a huge list of games I need to complete). I'll probably get ACR some day.

I do hope that this one gets back to the "hiding" aspect of the game. Open combat isn't AC's strong suit.
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#12 Mar 06 2012 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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I'm still playing ACR, but I've enjoyed them all. I know it seems like a ripoff with Ubisoft tacking on these games, but there are tons of gameplay hours in all of them so I feel I got value for my money.
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#13 Mar 06 2012 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
I never finished the first one... Smiley: blush Don't get me wrong I liked it for the most part. But I got to this mission where you have to assassinate these guys burning books and their are like 10 of them. I think it was on a timer as well. I would kill like 3-4 of them then get impatient and **** up. Figured I would get back to that mission later to see the end of the game and just never did.

I don't seem to have the stealth patience I used to when playing Tenchu. For some reason in that game I could get meditative and had the patience to sit on a roof for 5-10 minutes to get one kill on a patrol.
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#14 Mar 06 2012 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Master Shojindo wrote:
I never finished the first one... Smiley: blush Don't get me wrong I liked it for the most part. But I got to this mission where you have to assassinate these guys burning books and their are like 10 of them. I think it was on a timer as well. I would kill like 3-4 of them then get impatient and **** up. Figured I would get back to that mission later to see the end of the game and just never did.

I don't seem to have the stealth patience I used to when playing Tenchu. For some reason in that game I could get meditative and had the patience to sit on a roof for 5-10 minutes to get one kill on a patrol.


Throwing knives made that mission stupidly easy, best as I recall.

Not that I'm discrediting your ennui with stealth or anything, but AC doesn't have too much of it, unless you really try for it. After getting through every boss' cutscene, you're pretty much free to bum rush at them and make it a big brawl. It's actually one of the game's major faults, IMO.
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#15 Mar 06 2012 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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ACII is WAY different than the first game though. It actually has a story, and character development, and plot arcs, etc.
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#16 Mar 06 2012 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
ACII is WAY different than the first game though. It actually has a story, and character development, and plot arcs, etc.


The original had all of those things. Smiley: confused

The largest difference between the two games was in mission variety.


Well, that and swimming. Smiley: tongue
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#17 Mar 06 2012 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Master Shojindo wrote:
I never finished the first one... Smiley: blush Don't get me wrong I liked it for the most part. But I got to this mission where you have to assassinate these guys burning books and their are like 10 of them. I think it was on a timer as well. I would kill like 3-4 of them then get impatient and **** up. Figured I would get back to that mission later to see the end of the game and just never did.

I don't seem to have the stealth patience I used to when playing Tenchu. For some reason in that game I could get meditative and had the patience to sit on a roof for 5-10 minutes to get one kill on a patrol.


Throwing knives made that mission stupidly easy, best as I recall.

Not that I'm discrediting your ennui with stealth or anything, but AC doesn't have too much of it, unless you really try for it. After getting through every boss' cutscene, you're pretty much free to bum rush at them and make it a big brawl. It's actually one of the game's major faults, IMO.


15 point word score for using ennui in a forum post!

Knives would have probably made my life easier. I was trying to patiently sneak in behind them to get the kills. I think brawling was leading to the entire city going full alert at that point and I was tired of running back to my curtain box nap spots.

I do remember a plot in AC though. Future vs Past, crusaders vs natives etc, and holy relics of power or something like that. **** now I kind of want to go back and finish it. Smiley: tongue
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#18 Mar 06 2012 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't played any of them yet but I own a couple. Maybe I'll start with AC once I finish my current game. Should I play mouse/kb or am I better off plugging in my controller?
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#19 Mar 06 2012 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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Master Shojindo wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Master Shojindo wrote:
I never finished the first one... Smiley: blush Don't get me wrong I liked it for the most part. But I got to this mission where you have to assassinate these guys burning books and their are like 10 of them. I think it was on a timer as well. I would kill like 3-4 of them then get impatient and **** up. Figured I would get back to that mission later to see the end of the game and just never did.

I don't seem to have the stealth patience I used to when playing Tenchu. For some reason in that game I could get meditative and had the patience to sit on a roof for 5-10 minutes to get one kill on a patrol.


Throwing knives made that mission stupidly easy, best as I recall.

Not that I'm discrediting your ennui with stealth or anything, but AC doesn't have too much of it, unless you really try for it. After getting through every boss' cutscene, you're pretty much free to bum rush at them and make it a big brawl. It's actually one of the game's major faults, IMO.


15 point word score for using ennui in a forum post!

Knives would have probably made my life easier. I was trying to patiently sneak in behind them to get the kills. I think brawling was leading to the entire city going full alert at that point and I was tired of running back to my curtain box nap spots.

I do remember a plot in AC though. Future vs Past, crusaders vs natives etc, and holy relics of power or something like that. **** now I kind of want to go back and finish it. Smiley: tongue


You should definitely finish it up. I'm in the minority, but I actually prefer it to ACII. It's been a while since I played it, but I think that mission goes by rather quickly if you just huck throwing knives at those guys from above. Fire & forget, more or less (honestly, they really should have made you have to aim a bit).

Joph wrote:
I haven't played any of them yet but I own a couple. Maybe I'll start with AC once I finish my current game. Should I play mouse/kb or am I better off plugging in my controller?


I played it on PS3, so I can only speak to that. Works quite well on a controller. I don't see anything that would preclude if from doing the same on keyboard & mouse, though.

Edited, Mar 6th 2012 12:40pm by Eske
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#20 Mar 06 2012 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know some are designed more to one end than the other. Batman: AA/AC, for example seems to be made for controllers despite having the KB/mouse option (vs every FPS where you'll get mocked and killed for trying to play controller on a PC). Didn't know if AC was the same.

Edited, Mar 6th 2012 11:44am by Jophiel
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#21 Mar 06 2012 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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I only ever played it on PS3 but for me it seems to have been made for the controller. The controls may get tricky with the fast walk/sprinting on a keyboard.
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#22 Mar 06 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
ACII is WAY different than the first game though. It actually has a story, and character development, and plot arcs, etc.


The original had all of those things. Smiley: confused

The largest difference between the two games was in mission variety.


Well, that and swimming. Smiley: tongue


I don't agree. It had them in the barest form possible. Altair's character barely developed (and it was limited to like 3-5 conversations), there was one real antagonist for most of the game, and like 2 other random characters that would needle you every so often. That's about it. I can only think of one other character (Malak) that developed at all.

There was just the main plot line. Go to a city, investigate the Templar, assassinate him, return, repeat. Those characters were never important outside of that mission, and you rarely heard about them again after the fact. They weren't even plot arcs, not really, it was just who Altair happened to be assassinating.

I enjoyed the game in general, but the story was very bare-bones.

In AC2, they added a bunch of characters that actually developed over time (in both Ezio's time and in Desmond's). It wasn't just about assassinating a target, it was as much about Ezio finding his place in the world. And half the time it was less about being told what to do, and more about him doing it for his own reasons. You stopped to help other groups, and you carried on your own investigations where you saw fit. This isn't just mission variety, it's a significant deviation in the plot line from the previous game. In ACB, there are actually sub-plots and additional arcs. The whole game is about combating the Templars established in Rome, but the player can help other groups if they wish, they can explore other plot lines in the form of <whatsername> from the last game, you deal with intrigue and such within the Assassin group, and deal with the dynamics of the leaders. Etc.

First game's entire plot can be summed up in a linear list of bullet-points. You never need to create a branch in the tree, or stop to explain underlying events. That's not the case in AC2/B.
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#23 Mar 06 2012 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
ACII is WAY different than the first game though. It actually has a story, and character development, and plot arcs, etc.


The original had all of those things. Smiley: confused

The largest difference between the two games was in mission variety.


Well, that and swimming. Smiley: tongue


I don't agree. It had them in the barest form possible. Altair's character barely developed (and it was limited to like 3-5 conversations), there was one real antagonist for most of the game, and like 2 other random characters that would needle you every so often. That's about it. I can only think of one other character (Malak) that developed at all.

There was just the main plot line. Go to a city, investigate the Templar, assassinate him, return, repeat. Those characters were never important outside of that mission, and you rarely heard about them again after the fact. They weren't even plot arcs, not really, it was just who Altair happened to be assassinating.

I enjoyed the game in general, but the story was very bare-bones.

In AC2, they added a bunch of characters that actually developed over time (in both Ezio's time and in Desmond's). It wasn't just about assassinating a target, it was as much about Ezio finding his place in the world. And half the time it was less about being told what to do, and more about him doing it for his own reasons. You stopped to help other groups, and you carried on your own investigations where you saw fit. This isn't just mission variety, it's a significant deviation in the plot line from the previous game. In ACB, there are actually sub-plots and additional arcs. The whole game is about combating the Templars established in Rome, but the player can help other groups if they wish, they can explore other plot lines in the form of <whatsername> from the last game, you deal with intrigue and such within the Assassin group, and deal with the dynamics of the leaders. Etc.

First game's entire plot can be summed up in a linear list of bullet-points. You never need to create a branch in the tree, or stop to explain underlying events. That's not the case in AC2/B.


I feel a sense of deja vu here...like we've had an argument like this before, where I'm absolutely flabbergasted at the conclusions you come to about a game. Was it FFXIII? I think that was it.

Sufficed to say I don't agree. The entire game is structured around Altair growing as a character, so I'm a bit stunned that you'd decry a lack of character development. He starts as headstrong, arrogant, and without empathy, and Al Mualim instructs him to get him to change those qualities. I loved the portions of dialogue before each block of assassinations...the conversations between those two are the caliber of strong fiction.

Things like "there being only one villain" or "there being only the main plot line" aren't inherently strikes against a game's plot, of course. More characters, or more things happening to more characters, does not mean a better plot.

None of that's to say that I didn't enjoy ACII. I liked it quite a bit. I find the first to be a bit darker, which is more my style. ACII had a touch of hokey-ness to it. I also prefer the setting of the first. And some textures were notably worse in II (the tiling of the ground in any area outside of a city was egregious), which struck me as lazy. But they're both great.

I may get around to playing the other two sometime. Really, I should run the full gauntlet and do 'em all before ACIII's release.
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#24 Mar 06 2012 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
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My point isn't the he didn't change, it's that the game failed to make a real story out of it. Those conversations with the old guy, and a few with Malak, contain all of Altair's character development until you approach the end of the game. It's extremely limited, and gives it a really odd, stuttering nature. He doesn't develop smoothly, over time. If the premise of the game is that I'm experiencing this person's life through genetic memory, I shouldn't be only experiencing that change in bursts in between the major missions. Everything should be developing the character, influencing them.

AC2 and Brotherhood did that very well. Assassin's Creed 1 didn't do that at all.

I didn't mind the repetition as much as other people did, and I legitimately enjoyed the game. I always thoroughly investigated my targets. But that's the real weakness, imo.

Does Altair go from being a stuck up **** to a more reverent and honorable assassin? Yes. But the character development is such that it's easily shown via a single line of storyboards, and that's what I take issue with.
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#25 Mar 06 2012 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
I haven't played any of them yet but I own a couple. Maybe I'll start with AC once I finish my current game. Should I play mouse/kb or am I better off plugging in my controller?


I've never used the a keyboard/mouse combo since I have them all for the 360, but the controls are pretty good, so I never really had a problem with a controller. I will give you bit of a warning on the first game. It's not very good. The world is impressive, the voice acting and animations are well done. The story is interesting. The mission structure is utter garbage. It's repetitive and has little to do with the story, most of which is told through in engine cut scenes.

ACII changes all of that. The missions and story are tied together very well. There is plenty of of variety not only in missions, but in side content. Brotherhood and Revelations both follow and improve upon the mission/story structure of II. The story is actually fairly interesting if you're into historical fiction. They also add in a fairly good multiplayer element that's not really like the multiplayer in any other game. It's a slower cat and mouse sort of affair. People that run around and climb buildings get killed quick, they're just too easy to spot. Ubisoft's servers kind of suck though, the worst part of multiplayer is actually finding a game, but once you're in, it's a blast.

Edited, Mar 6th 2012 6:39pm by Turin
#26 Mar 06 2012 at 6:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Luckily, I got AC (the first) for free so I suppose if it's balls, I'll just play long enough to get the jist of it and move on.
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#27 Mar 06 2012 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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You can just take less time if the missions. Each mission consists of gathering info about your target, then taking them out. You only need 3 to start the assassination memory, but gathering more gives you more context. I generally gathered it all, but just going straight for the kill will speed your game along a fair amount.

The biggest problem I have with the mission structure is having to ride the f***ing horse to the cities each time.
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#28 Mar 07 2012 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
My point isn't the he didn't change, it's that the game failed to make a real story out of it. Those conversations with the old guy, and a few with Malak, contain all of Altair's character development until you approach the end of the game. It's extremely limited, and gives it a really odd, stuttering nature. He doesn't develop smoothly, over time. If the premise of the game is that I'm experiencing this person's life through genetic memory, I shouldn't be only experiencing that change in bursts in between the major missions. Everything should be developing the character, influencing them.

AC2 and Brotherhood did that very well. Assassin's Creed 1 didn't do that at all.

I didn't mind the repetition as much as other people did, and I legitimately enjoyed the game. I always thoroughly investigated my targets. But that's the real weakness, imo.

Does Altair go from being a stuck up **** to a more reverent and honorable assassin? Yes. But the character development is such that it's easily shown via a single line of storyboards, and that's what I take issue with.


I found he developed rather believably. I think you're too dismissive of the conversations with Al Mualim; they're rather long, and it's easy to believe that the salient points Al Mualim makes affect Altair on the spot, or that he (and/or the player) ruminates on them during the windup to the assassinations. Though I'll concede that perhaps some narrated thoughts during those portions would help to round things out. I'll point out that you're also forgetting the conversations that occur with the assassination targets, some of which are also fairly long, and reveal Altair's changing attitude.

I'm also not letting you off the hook for saying that the game didn't have a story, by the way. It very clearly did.

Edited, Mar 7th 2012 12:26pm by Eske
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#29 Mar 07 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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I never said it didn't. I said that AC2 actually had one--I meant for it to be relative. Does AC2 have a story? Yes. But it's very, very bare-bones. Like the skeleton of a story that you would establish when making your initial outlines. It's still a story, but it definitely isn't a rich one.

[EDIT]

Also, my issue is like looking at a bar graph that lists populations in 50 year increments. Yeah, you know the population didn't double in one year. But without more data, like a line to show you population over time, it's hard to keep yourself from being impressed otherwise.

That's my issue with the first game. Even if the character development happens at a realistic pace, it doesn't give the player the proper experience of it for that to feel like it's so. I enjoyed it, but I'm not going to pretend I didn't have issues.

Edited, Mar 7th 2012 1:26pm by idiggory
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#30 Mar 07 2012 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I never said it didn't. I said that AC2 actually had one--I meant for it to be relative.


I understand if you meant it to be relative. But please, just say that you misspoke, or that it was hyperbole. The phrasing:

Quote:
ACII is WAY different than the first game though. It actually has a story


...is a contrast between the two relating to the 'having of stories'. AC2 is different from AC1 because it 'has one'. Therefore, AC1 does not.

Apologies for being pedantic, but I'm a bit of a stickler for these things.


To the rest, I'll just say that I suspect I don't share your view on what makes a rich story. That's not to say that I found AC1's story to be particularly amazing (To me, it was solid, but unspectacular. The dialogue and setting carried the game for me much more than the story). But I found AC2's to be roughly the same, with much more hokeyness Riding Da Vinci's flying machine, fighting the pope, etc. that put me off just a bit.

I'm hoping that the third game brings back some of the gravitas of the first. Were either Brotherhood or Revelations darker than AC2?
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#31 Mar 07 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, that's fine. My bad for not being clear with my intent--fault definitely isn't on you.

I haven't played Revelations, but there were ways in which AC2 was darker, ways in which Brotherhood was. In Brotherhood, you feel like you are in a much less fortified position, which I like more.
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#32 Mar 07 2012 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Yeah, that's fine. My bad for not being clear with my intent--fault definitely isn't on you.

I haven't played Revelations, but there were ways in which AC2 was darker, ways in which Brotherhood was. In Brotherhood, you feel like you are in a much less fortified position, which I like more.


One or the other (Brotherhood, I think?) should be going up on sale on the PSN this week, IIRC, because it was one of the winners in the "Best of PSN" contest thing. 30% off for regular users, and 50% off for PS Plus, which I just subscribed to.

I think I'll give it a look.

Err, just checked, and yeah, it's Brotherhood.


And on an unrelated note, Journey is absolutely gorgeous. Anyone with a Playstation should play it.

Edited, Mar 7th 2012 3:00pm by Eske
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#34 Mar 08 2012 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Luckily, I got AC (the first) for free so I suppose if it's balls, I'll just play long enough to get the jist of it and move on.
If you don't like it, I'm sure there's a halfway decent plot summary on Wiki.
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