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So I just completed FFXIIIFollow

#52 Aug 06 2011 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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I've already bowed out of this debate. I don't see a chance for accord.
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#53 Aug 07 2011 at 5:29 PM Rating: Default
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So you only see value in a discussion if people agree in the end?
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#54 Aug 07 2011 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Neither of you is making any progress here. Why bother repeating the same points over and over, and why not just let the guy go?
#55 Aug 07 2011 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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It's the internet, reasonable arguments aren't actually considered and thought upon, they are only used to to point out the lack of intelligence of whoever is disagreeing with you.

Also, the character progression in FFXIII was laughable. If you think otherwise then you've clearly never been exposed to any sort of good writing, just the weak **** poor drivel that passes for pop culture nowadays.
#56 Aug 07 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Turin wrote:
It's the internet, reasonable arguments aren't actually considered and thought upon, they are only used to to point out the lack of intelligence of whoever is disagreeing with you.

Also, the character progression in FFXIII was laughable. If you think otherwise then you've clearly never been exposed to any sort of good writing, just the weak **** poor drivel that passes for pop culture nowadays.


What a useful post.
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#57 Aug 07 2011 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
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It's every bit as useful as "you keep trying to withdraw from this conversation but I won't let you because I'm blindly convinced that I'm right".
#58 Aug 08 2011 at 4:55 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
So you only see value in a discussion if people agree in the end?


I have only so much interest in maintaining a debate when no amount of traction can be gained by either side. The subjectivity inherent in the discussion makes me think it unlikely that that'll change.

Surely that's reasonable enough?
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#59 Aug 08 2011 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
I have only so much interest in maintaining a debate when no amount of traction can be gained by either side. The subjectivity inherent in the discussion makes me think it unlikely that that'll change.


Liar. You respond to Alma all the time. Smiley: grin
#60 Aug 08 2011 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Eske wrote:
I have only so much interest in maintaining a debate when no amount of traction can be gained by either side. The subjectivity inherent in the discussion makes me think it unlikely that that'll change.


Liar. You respond to Alma all the time. Smiley: grin


Libel! Slander! I'm pressing charges. Kao, lock this thread to preserve the evidence!
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#61 Aug 08 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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Well that's depressing, because now I get neither pleasures a debate can produce--winning or understanding why the other person feels differently.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
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#62 Aug 08 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Well that's depressing, because now I get neither pleasures a debate can produce--winning or understanding why the other person feels differently.


I explained my position as best I can. Perhaps I could have been more clear if I really made a research paper out of it, but I've delved into this as much as I care to here.

Just let it go already. You're like a dog with a bone in this thread, for some reason.
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#63 Aug 08 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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I've been away for a few days.

I came back to see 17 more posts and I was optimistic as to what they contained.

I am a little disappointed :(
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#64 Aug 08 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Well that's depressing, because now I get neither pleasures a debate can produce--winning or understanding why the other person feels differently.


I explained my position as best I can. Perhaps I could have been more clear if I really made a research paper out of it, but I've delved into this as much as I care to here.

Just let it go already. You're like a dog with a bone in this thread, for some reason.


It's hard to +1 if you let everything go.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#65 Aug 08 2011 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Well that's depressing, because now I get neither pleasures a debate can produce--winning or understanding why the other person feels differently.


I explained my position as best I can. Perhaps I could have been more clear if I really made a research paper out of it, but I've delved into this as much as I care to here.

Just let it go already. You're like a dog with a bone in this thread, for some reason.


It's hard to +1 if you let everything go.


I hear that there is another way, but you'll have to do some things that you're not proud of.






My Little Pony Memes.

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 9:47pm by Eske
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#66 Aug 08 2011 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Well that's depressing, because now I get neither pleasures a debate can produce--winning or understanding why the other person feels differently.


I explained my position as best I can. Perhaps I could have been more clear if I really made a research paper out of it, but I've delved into this as much as I care to here.

Just let it go already. You're like a dog with a bone in this thread, for some reason.


It's hard to +1 if you let everything go.


I hear that there is another way, but you'll have to do some things that you're not proud of.






My Little Pony Memes.

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 9:47pm by Eske


GAH. If only you had said buttsex in back alleys with strangers.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
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#67 Sep 11 2011 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Quote:
The final boss cheats by casting Death. This would not be a problem except if the leader dies, instead of changing to a different party member, it's Game Over.


It's no different than Yunalesca in FFX, who could kill your whole party before you even got another turn to try and set things right. The solution is the same as it was then--use proper equipment.


Simple solution to Yunalesca -- DON'T CURE ZOMBIE. Derp. After her first Mega-Death, the rest are very easily predictable, she uses an easy 1-2-3 pattern. Don't cure Zombie unless you've got someone who has Regen and who has Yellow HP; make sure you keep 2 people with Zombie on at all times. Dispel the stupid Regens, etc. You don't need a single Status-Proof armor for this fight, at all.

Death never, ever, works on someone who has Zombie.

They had her casting Mega-Death the very instant she goes into Phase 3 because Square knew there'd be lots of Herpaderps out there who'd be wholly un-prepared for it lol.

The very first time I did that fight, I only had 1 guy who was still a zombie. Thankfully, that one guy was a Hasted Tidus. Didn't take me more than a split second to realize that Zombie = Protection from Death.


Edit:
Derp, didn't realize that the last post on this was Aug 09th, even though it is on the front page. Sorry!

Edited, Sep 11th 2011 11:00pm by Lyrailis

Edited, Sep 11th 2011 11:01pm by Lyrailis
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#68 Sep 11 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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You still aren't going to be able to know that ahead of time--most players would have died before reaching phase three, or they would have died upon entering it.

Yunalesca is difficult for three reasons:

1. She counters attacks against her with the appropriate status-ailment. So you're going to need either gear that protects you from it, or you'll need a dedicated dispeller.

2. She will inflict you with zombie, which means you can't heal them. She'll also cast healing spells on them.

3. She has an AoE attack powerful enough to be noteworthy. Especially if we are talking about a scenario in which you will have only one character alive at the start of phase three, and that character must be in zombie mode.

4. She can insta-death you.

Realistically, it's a fight that (when done at an appropriate level) still has more than a small aspect of luck to it, unless you are seriously geared. Which is pretty much exactly the same as what we have here--when appropriately geared, the chance of you getting screwed is pretty small.
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#69 Sep 11 2011 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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I never had any problem with the final boss. I killed him before he even cast a single spell.

I didn't even know he had Death in his ******* before coming to this thread, actually.
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#70 Sep 11 2011 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
You still aren't going to be able to know that ahead of time--most players would have died before reaching phase three, or they would have died upon entering it.

Yunalesca is difficult for three reasons:

1. She counters attacks against her with the appropriate status-ailment. So you're going to need either gear that protects you from it, or you'll need a dedicated dispeller.


She ONLY does this during Phase 1.

Once you get to Phase 2, she stops counter-attacking you completely. She does not cast Zombie, nor Mega-Death in Phase 1.

Quote:
2. She will inflict you with zombie, which means you can't heal them. She'll also cast healing spells on them.


Regen only does 200-300 damage a tick; characters should range between 2500-4000 HP. This is easily manageable and you have plenty of time to react to it and/or plan ahead.

Quote:
3. She has an AoE attack powerful enough to be noteworthy. Especially if we are talking about a scenario in which you will have only one character alive at the start of phase three, and that character must be in zombie mode.


The only AoE attack she does, Mind Blast I believe it is called, does 500-700 damage. When you have 3-4k HP, this is a pittance amount of damage. Also, she only does it in Phase 3, and she only does it once every 3 turns, and she has very low agility (most characters get 2-3 turns to her one).

Quote:
4. She can insta-death you.


Yes, the very first time she uses Mega-Death you are going to be unprepared for it. So you reload and you KNOW she's going to do it the 2nd time around. She doesn't even cast Regen in Phase 2, she only casts Cura if I recall correctly. Cura that only does 1k-ish? Something like that. Oh, she's only got like 25k health too, and she has fairly low defense.

Quote:
Realistically, it's a fight that (when done at an appropriate level) still has more than a small aspect of luck to it, unless you are seriously geared. Which is pretty much exactly the same as what we have here--when appropriately geared, the chance of you getting screwed is pretty small.


The only bad situation you can run into, is 1 character non-zombie, and 2 zombies with regen and low health. This happened to me, literally, a few days ago and nearly caused me to wipe on her. But I will admit, that I _should_ have had Yuna in my group all along, I could have casted Dispel to get rid of the Regens. Doing that, would have made the fight MUCH easier.

If you have Tidus and Yuna in the group, use a heavy-hitter like Wakka or Auron, you literally can't lose if you make sure to keep Haste up on Yuna at the very least, and have her Dispel the Regens ASAP. The only damage you will ever take during the whole fight, is her dispelling counter attacks (Yuna will never lose her haste unless you are stupid and have her melee the boss), the zombification move and her Mind Spike. Both of the above only do 500-700 damage. The counter-attacks do 300 or less on a melee character. Once she casts Mega-Death, feel free to cure the zombie and pop heals, Yuna should easily be fast enough (thanks to Haste) to heal at least two people before the next All-Zombie attack.

You literally cannot lose.

If you beat the Zanarkand Guardian on the Mountain, there's no reason you should ever lose to Yunalesca, and it has absolutely nothing to do with gear. It has everything to do with observing the boss on your first attempt, realizing that Zombie = Death Protection and Dispel is the new Esuna in this fight, and you'll do just fine. Also, prolonging the Second Phase to make sure _everyone_ gets hit with Zombie does wonders too, Sub em in, let them get hit with zombie, then switch them out.

If you ever find yourself with all non-zombies, switch in the zombified people in temporarily when Mega-Death is coming.

Oh, and making sure Bahamut has a full Overdrive gauge is nice too. lol. Get her down to about 15-20k left, and then blast her to death for an Overkill and extra AP.
#71 Sep 11 2011 at 10:16 PM Rating: Good
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I never said that the fight was hard with proper planning. I said that it's not that different from the final battle of FFXIII, in that proper planning is going to make it pretty easy where it could potentially be really rough without it (and note that I said "could" for both instances--your luck is a huge factor in both, without the right gear).

Yunalesca's fight is a breeze if all 3 of your characters are deathproof and zombieproof, for instance. If you add the appropriate other status (blind or silence-proof), it's a breeze.

But assuming you are an average joe, with only access to what you could realistically have found or made at this point, you aren't going to have any of that (or auto-med).

In P1, you only have 3 options.
1. Attempt to damage Yunalesca with your status ailments.
2. Try to heal status ailments between attacks, either by using a dedicated member or just attacking every other round.
3. Have Yuna reflect everyone, which allows them to attack normally without fear.

You're probably going to choose 3.

So let's fast forward to P2 (and assume everyone's in good health). You are all now zombies. And you all have reflect. Yuna is going to need to Dispell(ga) at this point, because it's going to get rough from here on out unless you have a massive number of mega-potions. Plus, Yunalesca will heal herself if you don't. You'll also need to cure zombie from here on out on all but 1 member (constantly shifting the status, so that you can heal when it's gone).

That alone can be pretty annoying with the RNG. Yunalesca is a very fast boss, and Cura hurts a lot. Since she inflicts zombie with an AoE (that luckily doesn't do TOO much damage), all of your party members are going to need constant healing. The kicker, of course, is that you can't use AoE heals, since you'll damage a member that way...

This phase is really annoying, but not too hard to survive. The NEXT phase is where the RNG can really ***** you over.

So you enter P3 and two of your party members die. The thing that sucks is that Yunalesca is fully capable of having the next turn after Mega Death. And Curaga hurts. A lot. It's fully conceivable that your zombied character will not have the health to survive it (especially since zombie means they won't be at full health).

That right there is a potential game over. And the ONLY way to avoid it completely is to have deathproof armor, so that you don't need to rely on zombie status to survive the start of P3.

But say you get lucky, and you get a turn after megadeath. Well, you're going to use a pheonix down, which will give you 1 character alive, 1 zombie, 1 dead (I imagine you don't want a MP, since it would give you 2 alive, without a zombie, opening yourself to MD).

Then you'll revive the next one. But all this while, Yunalesca can be using Curaga, so you might lose your zombied member. And there's no guarantee that she won't use Mega Death before using Hellbiter, so you might still end up in a situation without a zombie.

Is she hard with proper planning? No. But I've gone in with over-leveled groups (but without deathproof gear) and still lost, simply because Yunalesca got really lucky strings of turns.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
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