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#1 Jun 16 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Hello im a game developer that is currently going to school for computer science to make a long post short. I have a dream of someday creating my own MMORPG and started a blog in an attempt to get feedback. This is MMO site so what better place to get people who love MMO's and can give great feedback and aid someone.

http://createtionofmmorpg.blogspot.com/

thats the link so I hope you all enjoy it. :D
#2 Jun 16 2011 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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lglininger wrote:
Hello im a game developer that is currently going to school for computer science to make a long post short. I have a dream of someday creating my own MMORPG and started a blog in an attempt to get feedback. This is MMO site so what better place to get people who love MMO's and can give great feedback and aid someone.

http://createtionofmmorpg.blogspot.com/

thats the link so I hope you all enjoy it. :D


Since you're a budding game developer who's interested in MMORPG's, you should join the community here to read and talk with gamers, too.

You'd get credibility that could lead to more interest in your blog, a chance to share ideas and see how players feel about the site's supported games, and expand your network.

As is, single post advertisements are not well-received here.

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 9:42pm by Eske
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#3 Jun 16 2011 at 7:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not very good at encouragement, but I think I'm fairly decent at giving honest feedback.

First, your writing needs improvement. No one is going to want to read your ideas if they have to scrounge around and sort them out for themselves. Your first post begins with a wall of text warning, if you have to give this warning, you are doing something wrong as a writer. Paragraphs are used to marked changes in ideas or topic. In your first paragraph you begin with an introduction, and then wander into a general critique of current MMORPGs. These should be two separate paragraphs, as you are discussing separate ideas. You separate and structure ideas better in your most recent post about level progression, but the formatting could use improvement. There should be an additional break in between each section to make them stand out more. The better you communicate your ideas, the better feedback you are going to receive.

Second, and this may be more just a difference in style between how we think about games, but I don't feel you've provided enough justification and explanation for why certain elements are flawed in current MMORPG and why your ideas may be an improvement. You have 3 progression levels, and you state that you want it to be fun and not feel like a grind. This is what every MMORPG developer says they are going to do, so how specifically are you going to make leveling up these 3 areas not feel like a grind? How are you going to achieve your objective of fun? You vaguely describe the setting of your world, but why would players find your setting appealing? How are you going to differentiate the setting from other fantasy games?
#4 Jun 16 2011 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Your response helps a lot I know it reads like a scatter brained blog at the moment and I plan on adjusting that in later posts. The idea for these few introduction posts was to get the general idea out more in depth details about the game world, progresstion, and all of that will come. I understand that the 3 levels idea is not well worded, and I know all game devs say to not make it grindy I gusse I should of put it as "try to mot make it grindy." In all honesty it's hard to not make a RPG grindy you level up fight bosses make/get gear. Running on that I more meant to say funner styles of quests, solo instanced storyline dunegons.

And yes I know my writing skills suck I'm in class all day and I'm busted on every error and I don't mind them on my blog just because it feels like a bit of an escape. And no I did not justify the flaws as I should have, in general im a shy person and it shows in my writing because I feel if i dig too deep people will take it as an attack on MMO's and I really don't want it to be about me writing with a ego like "im the best my game rules all other MMO's suck"

Again thank you for your honesty and even though you said your not good at it you have encouraged me to do better in later posts thank you :)
#5 Jun 16 2011 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
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Thank you for the feedback and it's well noted. I don't wanna feel like a troll or upset players so thats why i chosse to make a blog rather than speak on grounds on targeted games. My idea as a developer is the game should be pure fun I'm not in it for the money like alot of new devs are and the last thing I want to do is upset people.
#6 Jun 16 2011 at 9:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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lglininger wrote:
Thank you for the feedback and it's well noted. I don't wanna feel like a troll or upset players so thats why i chosse to make a blog rather than speak on grounds on targeted games. My idea as a developer is the game should be pure fun I'm not in it for the money like alot of new devs are and the last thing I want to do is upset people.


Unless they have a lot of ownership in the company, most game devs are not in it for the money. It's actually a pretty underpaid/overworked position (for someone with coding experience). And again, clean spelling and grammar is really a must for any blog.
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#7 Jun 16 2011 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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#8 Jun 16 2011 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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lglininger wrote:
Thank you for the feedback and it's well noted. I don't wanna feel like a troll or upset players so thats why i chosse to make a blog rather than speak on grounds on targeted games.

Don't take his comments too hard. It's just we get a lot of people asking us for favors, and they can be fairly rude and selfish about it. We used to get an advertisement for a student doing an MMORPG research survey about every two weeks. They post their survey and then if we helped they'd never say thanks or never post the results.

So we're a little wary of people whose first post is asking us for a favor. Though, by posting back in this thread you've already been more courteous than most.

I'm fairly interested game design, and specifically MMORPG design myself. If you keep updating your blog and make sure to bump this thread every so often (daily probably would be a bad idea, but maybe after 3 new blog posts would be good), then I'll probably have an opinion for you about what you've written.
#9 Jun 17 2011 at 12:38 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
lglininger wrote:
Thank you for the feedback and it's well noted. I don't wanna feel like a troll or upset players so thats why i chosse to make a blog rather than speak on grounds on targeted games.

Don't take his comments too hard. It's just we get a lot of people asking us for favors, and they can be fairly rude and selfish about it. We used to get an advertisement for a student doing an MMORPG research survey about every two weeks. They post their survey and then if we helped they'd never say thanks or never post the results.

So we're a little wary of people whose first post is asking us for a favor. Though, by posting back in this thread you've already been more courteous than most.

I'm fairly interested game design, and specifically MMORPG design myself. If you keep updating your blog and make sure to bump this thread every so often (daily probably would be a bad idea, but maybe after 3 new blog posts would be good), then I'll probably have an opinion for you about what you've written.
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#10 Jun 17 2011 at 2:47 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
We used to get an advertisement for a student doing an MMORPG research survey about every two weeks.
You should have been in WoW General in the last month or so. Apparently some yahoo in Denver made his research and writing class about WoW, so we got flooded.
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#11 Jun 17 2011 at 6:05 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Allegory wrote:
We used to get an advertisement for a student doing an MMORPG research survey about every two weeks.
You should have been in WoW General in the last month or so. Apparently some yahoo in Denver made his research and writing class about WoW, so we got flooded.


Well, that what you get for playing WoW. You really should know better by now.
#12 Jun 17 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Allegory wrote:
We used to get an advertisement for a student doing an MMORPG research survey about every two weeks.
You should have been in WoW General in the last month or so. Apparently some yahoo in Denver made his research and writing class about WoW, so we got flooded.


Now we just have to wait until December to see what this douche has his class do next! Smiley: mad
#13 Jun 17 2011 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
lglininger wrote:
Thank you for the feedback and it's well noted. I don't wanna feel like a troll or upset players so thats why i chosse to make a blog rather than speak on grounds on targeted games.

Don't take his comments too hard. It's just we get a lot of people asking us for favors, and they can be fairly rude and selfish about it. We used to get an advertisement for a student doing an MMORPG research survey about every two weeks. They post their survey and then if we helped they'd never say thanks or never post the results.

So we're a little wary of people whose first post is asking us for a favor. Though, by posting back in this thread you've already been more courteous than most.

I'm fairly interested game design, and specifically MMORPG design myself. If you keep updating your blog and make sure to bump this thread every so often (daily probably would be a bad idea, but maybe after 3 new blog posts would be good), then I'll probably have an opinion for you about what you've written.


Hmmm didn't know someone came and did that sorry if thats how my post came off as. I'll make it a personal note that all feedback from anyone will be credited in the blog and here if it comes from a post off of this fourm. And if you like sometime tonight I'm going to do a clean up post to help clear up some of the great points you brought up Allegory. Thank you for all of the feedback and support people of zam :)
#14 Jun 17 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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A new post on the blog has been added inspired by the help you guys gave me. It is a clean up post to help answer some of the questions and faults pointed out. Thank you guys for the help :)
#15 Jun 17 2011 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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lglininger wrote:
A new post on the blog has been added inspired by the help you guys gave me. It is a clean up post to help answer some of the questions and faults pointed out. Thank you guys for the help :)


I'm glad you're making the effort to post and are actively encouraging feedback. Good on you. I'm vegging out right now, but I promise that I'll give it all a look through in the next day or two and give you what feedback I can.

I'll vouch for Allegory too...he's a good resource for writing technique.

Edited, Jun 17th 2011 10:26pm by Eske
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#16 Jun 19 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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The second part of the combat system direction posts has been put up, will be a few days before the next post on the blog since I am taking summer classes at school and they are very fast pace. So while I'm studying and programming please feel free to comment on here or the blog. This is where feedback is most important because the combat system defines a MMORPGs gameplay value. As I stated in the first post of the combat system the different aspects will feel a little undefined since true concept of a combat system can't start untill a game goes into production just the general direction of it can really be thought of and planned. Thank you so much to the people who have given feedback you guys have been a big help and keep it flowing. I have learned a lot as a rookie developer from you guys :)
#17 Jun 19 2011 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
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Some feedback:

I think that it would be a good idea to do a hard reset on the blog.

The structure of your idea needs to be organized before it's conveyed to the public. Categorizing your subjects into world, magic, combat...that's not a bad idea at all. Problem is, you've put the cart before the horse. You need to sell your readers on your premises first. See, your writing reads a bit like a stream-of-consciousness. It's clear that the ideas are vivid in your head, but as a side-effect, it seems that you're having trouble perceiving that your readers need to be led on at a slow, regimented pace. Problems like that are bound to happen when you have a big idea that you're excited about, especially when you've been thinking about it for a while. You want to race to put it all down, but unfortunately it'll come out jumbled as a result.

Hence the idea of the reset. Take some time, organize your thoughts, and then put them into post. Think about how you'd paint a large picture. You wouldn't throw down a messy foundation of color, then start rapid-fire painting all the fine details in it, jumping back and forth between them. Rather, you'd set a nice foundation, then slowly coax out the rest, gradually fleshing in all of the nice details when there was nothing else left.

Your writing (and really, the entire way that one thinks about game development) should be the same way. You want to sell us on your world. Awesome. But I think first you should sell us on everything before that. That's the "Why I'm doing this." And the "Here are some of the (general) things that I think are important." Stuff like that. There are probably quite a few posts to be had out of each of those subjects, right off the get. Each such post needs structure and focus. As a reader, I can't mentally follow the specifics of your game yet. I barely understand the world that you're trying to craft, and already we're talking about elemental wheels and trigger effects? Too soon. Spread things out. Work from general to specific across weeks or months, not within a single post.

Here's a quick sketch of how you might structure it (where each "-" is a post)

- Intro/Why I'm doing this (could be a bit larger, no problem)
- Why I'm doing this, part deux (now with more exposition!)
- Some of my generalized thoughts on the state of MMORPGs (their strengths & faults, and the missed opportunities)
- How my ideas for the game came about (with references to ideas of previous posts, & maybe some quick notes on the game world as relevant)
- The game world (very generalized setting and lore)
- The game world, part deux (a little more specific)
- Races (very general)
- Races, part deux (slightly more specific)
- Classes (very general)
- Classes, part deux (slightly more specific)
-The game world (even more specific)
-Races (even more specific)

etc. etc. Heck, even that might be moving too fast. Pepper in examples from other games, as well as rhetoric that explains how your vision has structured each of the design decisions that you've made. Be sure to hit on why each of your ideas represent an improvement, and what the consequences will be on the whole. (As a side note, don't feel that you have to stay completely on task with a blog. You can occasionally mix in a post about another subject, like a game you just played, or a life story, and then tie it in to game development, or even your game).

Blogs are a tricky thing. It can be tough to figure out how formal you want them to be, and what tone to take. I strongly recommend taking a few days combing the internet for good blogs, and analyzing the writing techniques used. There's nothing wrong with being informal, so long as you can maintain clarity. Consistency of style is key. Spell check, but don't use it as a substitute for your own edits. Read and edit everything you write at least three times before you press "send."


I gave everything a full read through. There are good ideas to be found, for sure. I'm liking the fractured world idea in particular. That's a setting that's chock full of design possibilities. Lots of good stuff. But before critiquing the specifics, I think I'd rather see those topics after their foundation has been laid, and then they've been given a full post or two to themselves for exposition. Then I can understand things better, and respond to them knowing where you're coming from.

Just gotta keep training those writing skills. Communicating your ideas is a tough, but worthwhile skill for a developer. Keep it up. If you can field criticism well, and are willing to be patient with the process, then you'll improve by leaps and bounds.

Edited, Jun 19th 2011 11:53pm by Eske
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#18 Jun 20 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Some feedback:

I think that it would be a good idea to do a hard reset on the blog.

The structure of your idea needs to be organized before it's conveyed to the public. Categorizing your subjects into world, magic, combat...that's not a bad idea at all. Problem is, you've put the cart before the horse. You need to sell your readers on your premises first. See, your writing reads a bit like a stream-of-consciousness. It's clear that the ideas are vivid in your head, but as a side-effect, it seems that you're having trouble perceiving that your readers need to be led on at a slow, regimented pace. Problems like that are bound to happen when you have a big idea that you're excited about, especially when you've been thinking about it for a while. You want to race to put it all down, but unfortunately it'll come out jumbled as a result.

Hence the idea of the reset. Take some time, organize your thoughts, and then put them into post. Think about how you'd paint a large picture. You wouldn't throw down a messy foundation of color, then start rapid-fire painting all the fine details in it, jumping back and forth between them. Rather, you'd set a nice foundation, then slowly coax out the rest, gradually fleshing in all of the nice details when there was nothing else left.

Your writing (and really, the entire way that one thinks about game development) should be the same way. You want to sell us on your world. Awesome. But I think first you should sell us on everything before that. That's the "Why I'm doing this." And the "Here are some of the (general) things that I think are important." Stuff like that. There are probably quite a few posts to be had out of each of those subjects, right off the get. Each such post needs structure and focus. As a reader, I can't mentally follow the specifics of your game yet. I barely understand the world that you're trying to craft, and already we're talking about elemental wheels and trigger effects? Too soon. Spread things out. Work from general to specific across weeks or months, not within a single post.

Here's a quick sketch of how you might structure it (where each "-" is a post)

- Intro/Why I'm doing this (could be a bit larger, no problem)
- Why I'm doing this, part deux (now with more exposition!)
- Some of my generalized thoughts on the state of MMORPGs (their strengths & faults, and the missed opportunities)
- How my ideas for the game came about (with references to ideas of previous posts, & maybe some quick notes on the game world as relevant)
- The game world (very generalized setting and lore)
- The game world, part deux (a little more specific)
- Races (very general)
- Races, part deux (slightly more specific)
- Classes (very general)
- Classes, part deux (slightly more specific)
-The game world (even more specific)
-Races (even more specific)

etc. etc. Heck, even that might be moving too fast. Pepper in examples from other games, as well as rhetoric that explains how your vision has structured each of the design decisions that you've made. Be sure to hit on why each of your ideas represent an improvement, and what the consequences will be on the whole. (As a side note, don't feel that you have to stay completely on task with a blog. You can occasionally mix in a post about another subject, like a game you just played, or a life story, and then tie it in to game development, or even your game).

Blogs are a tricky thing. It can be tough to figure out how formal you want them to be, and what tone to take. I strongly recommend taking a few days combing the internet for good blogs, and analyzing the writing techniques used. There's nothing wrong with being informal, so long as you can maintain clarity. Consistency of style is key. Spell check, but don't use it as a substitute for your own edits. Read and edit everything you write at least three times before you press "send."


I gave everything a full read through. There are good ideas to be found, for sure. I'm liking the fractured world idea in particular. That's a setting that's chock full of design possibilities. Lots of good stuff. But before critiquing the specifics, I think I'd rather see those topics after their foundation has been laid, and then they've been given a full post or two to themselves for exposition. Then I can understand things better, and respond to them knowing where you're coming from.

Just gotta keep training those writing skills. Communicating your ideas is a tough, but worthwhile skill for a developer. Keep it up. If you can field criticism well, and are willing to be patient with the process, then you'll improve by leaps and bounds.

Edited, Jun 19th 2011 11:53pm by Eske

I get ya haha you hit the nail on the head. I have been told by more people I know personaly that making a MMO is a bad idea and I'm usaly told to build apps for the android market o.O The fact that you and a few others have encouraged me sent a bolt of excitement and I do just wanna rapidly throw ideas out. The idea and the still brewing ideas for this MMO have been going for a looooong time and the fact that people are getting even the smallest amount of intrested makes me happy. What I'm not happy about is I failed as a developer to present more basic ideas before getting into the full blow concept of the game play. I will take your very well written feedback into thought and since I split the combat system post ito parts rather than a big post I can easly start back on more basic areas then continue the combat system when the time is right. The truth is I LOVE developing games I have about 16 single player game concepts written and over the years have a ton of ideas for the MMO. I was about 9 when i was sending nintendo ideas about pokemon style games hahaha not realizeing a email with ideas where not how games where made. I have also made some fun games that class mates liked that where built in 48 hours for homework. MMOs are huge as you know and being a single person I do have alot of pressure when it comes down to how to present it. The hard thing about going more into the game world is even over many years due to school, real life events it is still in it's baby steps. I will go more into why I am doing this and will slow down the train of posts(again as you said I'm just excited and love what I do and thank god for giving me the knowladge to do so.) Since I have crap loads of homework to do over the next few days I will spend a hour a few days organizeing my next post in fact I like your lay out you offered. You have helped me learn and thank you for being blunt in your post. on a last note thanks for the complament on the fractured world setting feels good to have someone say "I like that idea."
#19 Jun 20 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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lglininger wrote:
I get ya haha you hit the nail on the head. I have been told by more people I know personaly that making a MMO is a bad idea and I'm usaly told to build apps for the android market o.O The fact that you and a few others have encouraged me sent a bolt of excitement and I do just wanna rapidly throw ideas out. The idea and the still brewing ideas for this MMO have been going for a looooong time and the fact that people are getting even the smallest amount of intrested makes me happy. What I'm not happy about is I failed as a developer to present more basic ideas before getting into the full blow concept of the game play. I will take your very well written feedback into thought and since I split the combat system post ito parts rather than a big post I can easly start back on more basic areas then continue the combat system when the time is right. The truth is I LOVE developing games I have about 16 single player game concepts written and over the years have a ton of ideas for the MMO. I was about 9 when i was sending nintendo ideas about pokemon style games hahaha not realizeing a email with ideas where not how games where made. I have also made some fun games that class mates liked that where built in 48 hours for homework. MMOs are huge as you know and being a single person I do have alot of pressure when it comes down to how to present it. The hard thing about going more into the game world is even over many years due to school, real life events it is still in it's baby steps. I will go more into why I am doing this and will slow down the train of posts(again as you said I'm just excited and love what I do and thank god for giving me the knowladge to do so.) Since I have crap loads of homework to do over the next few days I will spend a hour a few days organizeing my next post in fact I like your lay out you offered. You have helped me learn and thank you for being blunt in your post. on a last note thanks for the complament on the fractured world setting feels good to have someone say "I like that idea."


Happy to help. I think it's a worthwhile experience, whether you succeed at it or not. I'm an architect. My education process was structured around being forced to submit my design ideas up for critique. I know from experience how worthwhile that process can be, especially if you approach it with the right mindset.

On a side note: Don't be so quick to dismiss the Android/iPhone Market. It's a ballooning sector of the gaming industry, and a great venue for budding designers. In fact, mobile MMORPGs are truly becoming both viable and popular. Personally, I'm intrigued by a lot of aspects of mobile gaming. It's really neat to see how this new sector opening up has created a demand for retro games (and by consequence, skilled retro designers). There's still a ton of opportunity to be mined there, and I'm sure a lot of interesting experiences for designers.

I really think that you should set aside a few days to do some research before plowing ahead on the blog. Look for some good gaming blogs...there are people out there doing the same thing that you want to do...find them and see how they go about it. Heck, any good design blog is worth a look, gaming related or not.

Best of luck.
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#21 Jun 20 2011 at 9:41 PM Rating: Decent
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COMYYY wrote:
demands kill people who love to share and do some big things.
i don't understand he just want to do something,but all the people around him tell me what he should do, what he should not do.
what a pity.


Thanks, Ayn Rand.

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#22 Jun 21 2011 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
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COMYYY wrote:
demands kill people who love to share and do some big things.
i don't understand he just want to do something,but all the people around him tell me what he should do, what he should not do.
what a pity.


“Individually, we are one drop. Together, we are an ocean.”
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“Coming together is a beginning. Keeping together is progress. Working together is success.”
- Henry Ford

“If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.”
- Isaac Newton
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#23 Jun 21 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I have started a basic out line of my next post and I'm currently getting thoughts put on paper going to go into more about me and why I want to make a MMORPG, but wanted to get a general idea for this post and future posts of what people want and will help bring it more into view.
Q 1: about me and why I have this dream.
What would you like to learn about me and why I want to make a MMORPG?
Q 2: the game world "Selethra"
What would you like to learn about the game world it's basic structure as a whole? Or spread it into several posts such as one being about the earthen realm then the next about the dream realm and so on.
These will help me get more clear and focused info out to you if you are intrested in the blog thank you for all of the help. :)
#24 Jun 27 2011 at 7:36 PM Rating: Decent
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The blog returns with a new post more around me and what started this crazy idea of making a MMORPG. It has more of a story telling tone to it and focuses around my younger days and the begining of the dream.
#25 Jun 28 2011 at 1:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was actually writing out a design Doc around this idea of an MMO.

I posted on your blog something I think that is important. As far as story goes, FFXI has delivered some of the best quest driven gameplay of any MMO I've ever played. When you start the game, you are not THE GREAT CHOSEN ONE WHO LEADS OUR GREAT ARMIES BLA BLA BLAH. You are just a commoner looking to make a fortune. The main arch of the game starts you off doing menial tasks, and you slowly build reputation to receive more prestigious tasks. The point is that half quests or stories in the game, the game makes sure that you know you are nothing in particular or special, but because you are obscure, they can have you do these tasks and not disrupt the balance of the nations.

I love it. There is nothing quite like NOT being the savior of the world unlike every other modern MMO that has been released in the past 7 years.

As far as other aspects MMO's:

For PvP in a fantasy MMO, Aion was some of the most fun I've ever had. I hate PvP in most MMOs, but being there for the start of Aion, before everyone was capped, it was fun. Being able to lure a person in a direction and have your friends attack from behind was a riot. overall, I think the concept of the PvP was great, but it had some flaws that showed up once large groups hit End game and got bored. IMO, PvP games either need to be segregated by level allow leveling very quickly with minimal amount of effort put towards the level grind and more focus on the gear grind. I could live with not having the most optimal equipment, but being 10 levels under the cap and not doing any damage to those at cap in an completely open PvP area was sorta lame.

PvE combat: XI takes the cake for challenging PvE combat. Leveling was a *****, but the Level restricted boss battles (bcnm's) and such were something else. It was fun and exciting.

Crafting: Runescape all the way :o

But seriously, runescape had some good crafting options, though they wouldn't work in other MMO's. The basis of the economy was that you WOULD lose all your gear every couple of days and need more of it. But for it's simplicity and inter connectivity, it was a good system. IMO. Also, the skills were individually leveled in the same manner as leveling combat skills. The constant loss of equipment and the need to replace it is something to be desired in an MMO i think. I liked crafting in XI because you couldn't gather X materials and get the levels all the time. Then again, I enjoyed logging and mining, so I might just be weird.

Factions:

**** em. it failed in Aion. It will fail in rift.

Social ideas for MMO's I think could work well:


Clans - Groups of players who quest together under a single name. Clans must pay a fee to be recognized by the state and gain recognition among the citizens. A lose alliance, players would be able to operate under as many clans as he or she chose to. There would be not hierarchy except for the sponsor, the individual within the clan that pays the acknowledgement tax to the state.

Guilds - Officially recognized as an part of a city or town, a Guild is a step up from a clan. To become a guild, an official hierarchy must be submitted to the state. Guilds have many perks, including a share of the taxes gathered from merchants in towns under your city's sphere of influence. Guilds also would have each their own guild hall or commons for guild members, something to decorate. A guild would also gain access to a guild board, a board where citizens post daily quests of varying difficulty that can be taken up by guild members. Completed a quest will gain your guild reputation, while failing one will hurt it's reputation. Available quests and level of difficulty depend on the reputation of the guild.

Once you become a member of a guild, anything you do will reflect back upon your guild. You will no longer be able to take part in clan activities.


This system would be similar to XI's conquest system, where leveling in an area and gaining Xp with a spell from the city guard will gain points that change which nation controls which areas, and thus what items are sold in each city. The idea is a bit different though. Guilds could only belong to cities. A city is the capitol of a nation. Towns and villages are divided all over, and each controls different natural resources in the area. These items in the area would always be available in the village, but if your city has a strong influence over the town, the town will send those items to market in that city.

I also thought it would be fun if guilds could stake reputation on a town in order to shift it's allegiance if they wanted to. Like, reputation would literally be a political currency you could spend to gain a stake in a town. Town NPC's would sell their normal items, taxed by the city they are allied with, and then the guilds of a town would get a % cut out of the taxes. Guilds would literally fight over towns where great crafting supplies are located.

Other things to make guilds more interesting: Allow the most reputable guild to have a place in the town square. Their guild hall would be part of the in game map, and the commons a part of the public area. Also, have this guild's banner be used along lamp posts or something along the town's main road.

anyhow, if you've ever seen the anime, Fairy Tale, think of guilds as something like the ones in that show. They are not affiliated with the government, but the reputation of the guild greatly affects the reputation of the town.

You could even have guilds of other nations fight each other over towns if they both stake reputation in a town or village.

anyhow,
#26 Jun 28 2011 at 8:06 AM Rating: Decent
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MetalSmith wrote:
I was actually writing out a design Doc around this idea of an MMO.

I posted on your blog something I think that is important. As far as story goes, FFXI has delivered some of the best quest driven gameplay of any MMO I've ever played. When you start the game, you are not THE GREAT CHOSEN ONE WHO LEADS OUR GREAT ARMIES BLA BLA BLAH. You are just a commoner looking to make a fortune. The main arch of the game starts you off doing menial tasks, and you slowly build reputation to receive more prestigious tasks. The point is that half quests or stories in the game, the game makes sure that you know you are nothing in particular or special, but because you are obscure, they can have you do these tasks and not disrupt the balance of the nations.

I love it. There is nothing quite like NOT being the savior of the world unlike every other modern MMO that has been released in the past 7 years.

As far as other aspects MMO's:

For PvP in a fantasy MMO, Aion was some of the most fun I've ever had. I hate PvP in most MMOs, but being there for the start of Aion, before everyone was capped, it was fun. Being able to lure a person in a direction and have your friends attack from behind was a riot. overall, I think the concept of the PvP was great, but it had some flaws that showed up once large groups hit End game and got bored. IMO, PvP games either need to be segregated by level allow leveling very quickly with minimal amount of effort put towards the level grind and more focus on the gear grind. I could live with not having the most optimal equipment, but being 10 levels under the cap and not doing any damage to those at cap in an completely open PvP area was sorta lame.

PvE combat: XI takes the cake for challenging PvE combat. Leveling was a *****, but the Level restricted boss battles (bcnm's) and such were something else. It was fun and exciting.

Crafting: Runescape all the way :o

But seriously, runescape had some good crafting options, though they wouldn't work in other MMO's. The basis of the economy was that you WOULD lose all your gear every couple of days and need more of it. But for it's simplicity and inter connectivity, it was a good system. IMO. Also, the skills were individually leveled in the same manner as leveling combat skills. The constant loss of equipment and the need to replace it is something to be desired in an MMO i think. I liked crafting in XI because you couldn't gather X materials and get the levels all the time. Then again, I enjoyed logging and mining, so I might just be weird.

Factions:

@#%^ em. it failed in Aion. It will fail in rift.

Social ideas for MMO's I think could work well:


Clans - Groups of players who quest together under a single name. Clans must pay a fee to be recognized by the state and gain recognition among the citizens. A lose alliance, players would be able to operate under as many clans as he or she chose to. There would be not hierarchy except for the sponsor, the individual within the clan that pays the acknowledgement tax to the state.

Guilds - Officially recognized as an part of a city or town, a Guild is a step up from a clan. To become a guild, an official hierarchy must be submitted to the state. Guilds have many perks, including a share of the taxes gathered from merchants in towns under your city's sphere of influence. Guilds also would have each their own guild hall or commons for guild members, something to decorate. A guild would also gain access to a guild board, a board where citizens post daily quests of varying difficulty that can be taken up by guild members. Completed a quest will gain your guild reputation, while failing one will hurt it's reputation. Available quests and level of difficulty depend on the reputation of the guild.

Once you become a member of a guild, anything you do will reflect back upon your guild. You will no longer be able to take part in clan activities.


This system would be similar to XI's conquest system, where leveling in an area and gaining Xp with a spell from the city guard will gain points that change which nation controls which areas, and thus what items are sold in each city. The idea is a bit different though. Guilds could only belong to cities. A city is the capitol of a nation. Towns and villages are divided all over, and each controls different natural resources in the area. These items in the area would always be available in the village, but if your city has a strong influence over the town, the town will send those items to market in that city.

I also thought it would be fun if guilds could stake reputation on a town in order to shift it's allegiance if they wanted to. Like, reputation would literally be a political currency you could spend to gain a stake in a town. Town NPC's would sell their normal items, taxed by the city they are allied with, and then the guilds of a town would get a % cut out of the taxes. Guilds would literally fight over towns where great crafting supplies are located.

Other things to make guilds more interesting: Allow the most reputable guild to have a place in the town square. Their guild hall would be part of the in game map, and the commons a part of the public area. Also, have this guild's banner be used along lamp posts or something along the town's main road.

anyhow, if you've ever seen the anime, Fairy Tale, think of guilds as something like the ones in that show. They are not affiliated with the government, but the reputation of the guild greatly affects the reputation of the town.

You could even have guilds of other nations fight each other over towns if they both stake reputation in a town or village.

anyhow,

Wow thanks for the feedback and it's great to meet another person on this site that's into MMO development. I read over your post and a few of your ideas do relate to some of my games concept and ideas. Story wise it will be more like FFXI I loved how it worked and yeah your character will not be reconized off the bat as a grand hero. I only have a few of the races and about 1-2 chapters of the main story line finished. To make it simple without makeing this post mega long story wise it will branch. Race story line will work you up to being reconized as a hero of your race. Main story line will work you up to the big nations reconizeing you as a hero. sub story or quest chains will effect your popularity in that area the quest line focused on. Not to say this is 100% the way but is the intended way to go.

As far as factions go it will be a factionless game, but each race will have it's own language they can speak in since I loved that feature in WoW. As current day MMO's don't bash the faction system to bad it has it's place. In aion I didn't like it, in rift eh it's ok not th best 3 races per side is no fun :( Under your social ideas a lot of ideas popped out that are still being worked on. You will be able to change the way the different nations see your character and how much they like or dislike you. Guild wise though it would be fun, but can pose issues player wise. If a few guild members decided to go out can cause dislike in a town some memebers don't want to lose favor in I can see there being a lot of complaints. So under that I will keep it to where only you can change your favor levels.

under a final note I love the idea of guilds getting control of towns and being show cased with a hall, it can work but would have to have alot of restrictions. Giveing guilds the chance to bullie smaller guilds and restricting them from clan activities may have a negative impact. Yes things should be earned for working for them but you don't want to put to much pressure on the players while doing this. I'm not saying this idea is bad I like it in fact, but when something this high scale and dynamic is presented in a MMO you have to weigh the pros and cons carfully then tweek them.

Keep working on your design document I like your ideas and we seem to have a lot in common development wise. I'm not an idea stealer so never worry about sending me your own ideas for your game if ya want some feedback :) thank you for the feedback and I will keep your ideas in mind as I work on the MMO.

Edited, Jun 28th 2011 10:08am by lglininger
#27 Jul 03 2011 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Small update on the blog. It's not dead but it will be a day or two before I finish off the narative style of introduction. Mainly been busy with school and working on my P.C. upgraded it's CPU and motherboard in which it threw a fit over ha ha. And if you are a computer lover with the new line of AMD CPU's on the way a lot of sites are selling off 4 and 6 core processors for good prices. After I finish up the introduction going to do a quicker post about me as a developer such as my style my likes and dislikes and all of that stuff. Then the blog should be more set to get more into detail about the game world and other fun areas. Have about 2 outlines written for the next few posts. Again as much as I sound like a broken record thank you for the feedback and help you have all given me.
#28 Jul 04 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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The blogs new post is up check it out and lemme know what ya think! :)
#29 Jul 04 2011 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll give it a look-through in the next few days.
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#30 Jul 18 2011 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry for the huge gap in posts just giving a quick update the blog should have a new post within 2-4 days it's finals week at school so I have been busy as heck with school. Next post will be about getting into the game world with more detail and I will try and attach game screen shots from games that have inspired the design and feel I want the world to have. Thank you again for all of the feedback you have all given me :)
#31 Jul 18 2011 at 9:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
On a side note: Don't be so quick to dismiss the Android/iPhone Market. It's a ballooning sector of the gaming industry, and a great venue for budding designers.

You shouldn't dismiss iOS/Android coding jobs in general if you have the skills to get into the market and do a decent job. There's a **** of a lot of money out there in that industry, and with more and more people getting smartphones every day (and at least ~50% of them being iOS/Android, not counting tablets and iPod Touches), the market will only continue to grow for a long while.

It's a much easier industry to get into and see success as opposed to being a game developer.
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#32 Jul 19 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Heh I gusse I did make it out that I was dismissing it. Not so much that I would never work in the area, but it is not my end goal to be an app programmer it works very well for rookie game devs. But with current technology you are very limited in how big a game can be. But taking the easy way and saying I don't want to achive my dream of being a game developer would really take the amount of school work I have done with working on PC and console engines and throw it out the window. I am not attacking you in anyway just personaly I don't want to be an app dev. for the rest of my life.
#33 Jul 20 2011 at 12:36 AM Rating: Decent
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lglininger wrote:
Heh I gusse I did make it out that I was dismissing it. Not so much that I would never work in the area, but it is not my end goal to be an app programmer it works very well for rookie game devs. But with current technology you are very limited in how big a game can be. But taking the easy way and saying I don't want to achive my dream of being a game developer would really take the amount of school work I have done with working on PC and console engines and throw it out the window. I am not attacking you in anyway just personaly I don't want to be an app dev. for the rest of my life.

That's fine, I was just saying there's much more money involved in being an app dev over being a game dev.

If game development is your passion, go for it.
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#34 Jul 22 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
lglininger wrote:
Heh I gusse I did make it out that I was dismissing it. Not so much that I would never work in the area, but it is not my end goal to be an app programmer it works very well for rookie game devs. But with current technology you are very limited in how big a game can be. But taking the easy way and saying I don't want to achive my dream of being a game developer would really take the amount of school work I have done with working on PC and console engines and throw it out the window. I am not attacking you in anyway just personaly I don't want to be an app dev. for the rest of my life.

That's fine, I was just saying there's much more money involved in being an app dev over being a game dev.

If game development is your passion, go for it.


Zynga are the prime example of how to make money with mobile/Facebook gaming.
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#35 Jul 22 2011 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Zynga is a very sucessful company, infact there is a company called Blue Frog Gaming that is only 10 min. from where I live that has made a few great app games "can't think of the titles off of my head" and I see my first job possibly being with them. I'm not against the app and facebook market infact I can be kicking myself in the **** 5 - 10 years from now for not specializing in that area. I'm all for new markets opaning up and increaseing the span of game development. Some of my smaller scripts might work for that area, but I don't see MMO's being supported on them for a loooong time but who knows.
#36 Jul 23 2011 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent
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lglininger wrote:
Zynga is a very sucessful company, infact there is a company called Blue Frog Gaming that is only 10 min. from where I live that has made a few great app games "can't think of the titles off of my head" and I see my first job possibly being with them. I'm not against the app and facebook market infact I can be kicking myself in the **** 5 - 10 years from now for not specializing in that area. I'm all for new markets opaning up and increaseing the span of game development. Some of my smaller scripts might work for that area, but I don't see MMO's being supported on them for a loooong time but who knows.

Eh, there's already a (small) MMO on the iOS platform that a few of my iPhone-wielding WoW friends are addicted to.

Granted it's obviously not to WoW's standards (or most other decent MMOs), but as tech advances, so will the ability to use them for games.

We never thought we'd see PSX graphics on a handheld as small as an iPhone, and that's already here (and more; look at the graphics of Infinity Blade on the iPad), so who knows what the future holds; it's only game devs pushing what's possible currently that keeps tech progressing for gaming.
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#37 Jul 23 2011 at 6:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't want to discourage you, but you might want to have a look at this.
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#38 Jul 23 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah thats a very true video. The work hours and stress level is one of the first things we learned about in game design 1. It is seen as a lax job but if you look at pictures from inside big devs. most of the workers look like zombies. I understand and understood the duty of it when I started reaserching it when I was younger. In fact a degree in game design and development is one of the hardest degrees to complete. I'm not gonna lie I have and still are hitting huge bumps as I go through the degree. Creativity is one thing but as the video shows there are a ton of different levels then just comeing up with a fun idea and saying bam! buy it.
#39 Jul 23 2011 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
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The next blog post is up, it is an introduction to the game world Selethra. This is only the first of many posts to come, but I wanted to get a feel for the world out and introduce a few of the races rather than just refering to them as "the races". Hope you enjoy it and thanks again for all of the feedback :)
#40 Jul 27 2011 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
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The first idea injection is up on the blog about basic movement. The idea injections are not as well composed as a primary post they are posted for the sole reason of getting feedback. Pretty much I just copy and paste the concept from the game design document.
#41 Aug 07 2011 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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another smaller post has been made. Did not want to do two small posts in a row, but I went out of town for the week and did not have much time to work on the next bigger post. Let me know what ya think! thanks again for the feedback! :)
#42 Aug 20 2011 at 11:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Next post for the blog should be up in about a day or so. Been working on over hauling a lot of the classes to make them more uniqe rather than have classes with over lapping abilities or classes that are more like classes from WoW or other MMORPGS. Haha had a class that used traps and ranged weapons went through and just deleted all of the trap abilities and gave it more uniqe abilities. Thanks again for the feedback and thank you to the people who have been helping me get the blog in better shape :)
#43 Sep 13 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Sorry for the long wait time have been really busy with school work. I have added a new post to my blog that goes into gameplay issues with classes I felt needed to be addressed. Thanks to everyone who has given and continues to give feedback I'll try and get the next gameworld post up when I have some spare time I pretty much have it drafted and written, but it still needs some tweeks.
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