·Theme
E.V.O.Follow
Just listen to this song from the classic SNES game from Enix. Like the game itself, it seems to be telling the story of evolution. I never realized before how personal it is... to think of every generation that came before us, and how far we've come. Everything that we do, not just as a species, but as individuals, is the direct result of this journey that has taken an unfathomable amount of time.
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.
I sure hope it branches, because I don't want the actions of certain individuals to reflect on me in any way.
EVO was fun as hell. I still play it on my PSP.
EVO was fun as hell. I still play it on my PSP.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
Quote:
Like the game itself, it seems to be telling the story of evolution. I never realized before how personal it is... to think of every generation that came before us, and how far we've come. Everything that we do, not just as a species, but as individuals, is the direct result of this journey that has taken an unfathomable amount of time.
Now consider the fact that, if this is true, you don't have free will. :3
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
Like the game itself, it seems to be telling the story of evolution. I never realized before how personal it is... to think of every generation that came before us, and how far we've come. Everything that we do, not just as a species, but as individuals, is the direct result of this journey that has taken an unfathomable amount of time.
Now consider the fact that, if this is true, you don't have free will. :3
We really don't. The only difference between us and other animals is the time it has taken for everything that we do to be programmed into us, one generation at a time. We are still driven by the same things we were millions of years ago, survival, and the forwarding of our genes to the next generation. Having a child of my own on the way really puts this in perspective for me. I feel as though my whole purpose in life is complete, and I can die and meet my ancestors knowing their time in life was not in vein.
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.
I'm totally a determinist, so I agree with you.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Kuwoobie wrote:
We are still driven by the same things we were millions of years ago, survival, and the forwarding of our genes to the next generation. Having a child of my own on the way really puts this in perspective for me. I feel as though my whole purpose in life is complete, and I can die and meet my ancestors knowing their time in life was not in vein.
I am SO glad I don't feel this way.
Quote:
We really don't. The only difference between us and other animals is the time it has taken for everything that we do to be programmed into us, one generation at a time. We are still driven by the same things we were millions of years ago, survival, and the forwarding of our genes to the next generation. Having a child of my own on the way really puts this in perspective for me. I feel as though my whole purpose in life is complete, and I can die and meet my ancestors knowing their time in life was not in vein.
Accepting determinism as true, isn't any conception of self ultimately illusory? You're not an 'I' anymore than a raindrop falling on a leaf, or three billiard balls and a diet coke. If you're willing to buy into and value such an illusion, why not other ones?
Further, why should the illusory construct that is yourself fake-believe you're more or less a part of an inevitable chain of events because of what 'you' do?
Assuming determinism is true (this isn't a logical progression, just bullet points):
1) You don't exist.
2) It's impossible for you to behave as if you aren't a free-willed being, no matter how true it is, because acting in that way is not just 'programmed' in to you, it is you. It is the illusion that we call Kuwoobie.
3) Your 'biological imperative' is no less fake than free will. We're no more driven by survival than by free will - or philosophy.
Edited, May 13th 2011 5:33am by Kavekk
Quote:
Accepting determinism as true, isn't any conception of self ultimately illusory? You're not an 'I' anymore than a raindrop falling on a leaf, or three billiard balls and a diet coke. If you're willing to buy into and value such an illusion, why not other ones?
Further, why should the illusory construct that is yourself fake-believe you're more or less a part of an inevitable chain of events because of what 'you' do?
Assuming determinism is true (this isn't a logical progression, just bullet points):
1) You don't exist.
2) It's impossible for you to behave as if you aren't a free-willed being, no matter how true it is, because acting in that way is not just 'programmed' in to you, it is you. It is the illusion that we call Kuwoobie.
3) Your 'biological imperative' is no less fake than free will. We're no more driven by survival than by free will - or philosophy.
Further, why should the illusory construct that is yourself fake-believe you're more or less a part of an inevitable chain of events because of what 'you' do?
Assuming determinism is true (this isn't a logical progression, just bullet points):
1) You don't exist.
2) It's impossible for you to behave as if you aren't a free-willed being, no matter how true it is, because acting in that way is not just 'programmed' in to you, it is you. It is the illusion that we call Kuwoobie.
3) Your 'biological imperative' is no less fake than free will. We're no more driven by survival than by free will - or philosophy.
The "you" as something apart from the rest of the universe doesn't exist, sure. But you still have a body and brain and are controlling your actions. "You" are something transient, that is experiencing the universe.
Consider a machine. Machines can be programmed to have awareness of their surroundings. Assuming AI is possible, they might some day even have awareness of themselves. Humans are no different--we just happen to be one of the few animal species with self-awareness (dolphins being the only other I'm sure of, possible some birds).
"You" just refers to the rational mind (a physical construct) that is an emergent property of the human construct. Where the matter/energy that constitutes the mind ends, so do you.
Yes, the universe created us. Yes, all of our actions are determined. But our unique perception of the world is included in that. We experience our choices as being made because we do make them. This is extremely important to note.
Humans DO make choices. We have a will. All determinism says is that the universe is such a way that you would always have made that choice. You still CHOOSE it according to your beliefs and desires, it's just that those were instilled upon you by natural processes not of your choosing.
Your will is not free, because there's no ability to make a choice, but there certainly is a choice made (you just weren't aware that the universe had already decided for you, in the first instant of time). Those two aren't incompatible.
Humans don't have a perception of free will. All we have is a perception of making choices, which determinism supports (and actually requires). So there is still no problem. You just made the choices that you wanted to make, because the universe made you want them.
[EDIT]
And it is wrong to say that "free will" is programmed into you. Do you think primitive peoples 20-30k years ago had a conception of free will? I'd be heavily inclined to say no. Free will is something people found through philosophy. Turns out they were wrong. But you only believe your will is free because you were taught to believe it.
Edited, May 13th 2011 9:44am by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
I've never even heard of the term "determinism" before this thread. I just came up with all of that stuff on my own.
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.
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