More signs that SE keeps getting worseFollow

In PS1/2 days, they were pretty much the Kings of RPG's. Next gen consoles... not so much. I don't know who rules in Japan but I'd say Bioware and Bethesda rule the roost over in the UK.

People are gravitating towards the more open ended games (Fallout, Dragon Age, Mass Effect), because it actually feels like you're part of the story, and the choices you make actually matter.

This just doesn't happen in Final Fantasy games. Back in the day (1-10), we didn't really know any different, so they seemed spectacular. Now, they don't seem all that great (I tried to replay 9, my favourite FF game, and I couldn't. I just got bored.)

Granted, this is just my opinion, but I know a few others who share it. I don't know anyone who enthuses over XIII or XII.

It's a shame. And as they're so reluctant to "borrow" from other developers, I'm not sure what they can do to fix it...

I still love turn based RPGs. I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is they are more dependent on story and character development than a TPS type game coughmasseffectcough or an FPS. Likewise I think people have higher expectations for them, at least in those areas, so unlike a game like borderlands where you can have virtually no plot but still have a ton of fun, skimping out on story/character in one of those can hurt things a lot.

Likewise I don't feel like having an open-ended game is necessarily an improvement... couldn't finish oblivion and there are some more traditional JRPGs that have multiple endings/choice branches. Ar Tornelico and that Crono game come to mind. Even in games that are more open ended, you usually end up at the same point eventually.

In the end though, I think the bioware/bethesda vs JRPGs debate is kind of like debating civilization vs an RTS... two totally different genres.

I must suck at video games, because Dragon Age gave me problems at the normal setting.

It's probably because I played a caster. I could just mez everything in a horde and fight things one on one very easily... when my allies weren't breaking my CC that is.

I also wasn't above doing cheap ****. I remember getting into the dwarven city pretty early on and fighting one of those ancient spirit things long before I was supposed to. I kited him around a kitchen table. What an immersive game!

Yeah I had to switch to easy mode several times to get past certain parts. I always meant to go back and try it again on a harder setting once I beat it, but I just haven't had the time

I went non-mage and I can't say I had much of a problem. I leveled up herbalism so I can make health potions up the wazoo, though. It helped when I got Spoilertrapped in the Fade and had to go rescue my team members. Melee with no healer? Yeah. Thank the Maker for health potions. Can't say I ever changed the difficulty setting, though. Just didn't feel right to do so.

Yeah, predictable element wheels are overused and unless it's DQx the genre does have room for improvements in terms of gameplay. However making them button mashing games like FF13 or autoplay games like FF12 isn't necessarily the step in the right direction (though I did like the gambit system). One of the advantages that turn-based games give you is the time to think/figure things out, maybe do a little trial and error, that sort of thing. Sadly few give you this option. That's where one of the big problems lies. Too many encounters, too few chances to think through them.

Still, in terms of story, I think that this is where SE has been taking the biggest hits in its more recent non-portable releases.

It's been a long time since I played, but I do remember making a post awhile back with my experience with DA, and why I didn't like it.

I think the funniest thing I mentioned then was how I would deliberately kill my allies before a fight to keep them from breaking my CC, because it was just too much hassle to bother trying to get them to stop. Also, I hated them all. Great voice acting, but awful, awful characters.

The highlight of that game was realizing Kate Mulgrew played Flemeth. It was all downhill from there.

Have I mentioned how very much I hate Bioware lately?

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 6:11pm by Allegory

Is it just for DA:O or is there some other reason?

Having just started Mass Effect 2 for the first time a few days ago (I never played the first), I'm surprised. I'm quite enjoying it. Now I could see someone not being personally into Dragon Age, but I honestly can't imagine anyone making a compelling case that such games are truly "bad", let alone harmful to the genre.

You go to far, sir.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 1:03pm by Eske

Out of that list I've only played Dragon Age, but when I finished I sat back and went "Wow. That was by far the best RPG I have played. If I played this game before I ever touched a Final Fantasy, I would have hated almost everything SE* had done." I can't quite put my finger on it, but the entire thing just worked for me.

I also really liked Oblivion (which felt like a much more non-linear version of DA, but with a weaker story), and the next Elder Scrolls game is in the works... so excited!

*Edit: To be fair, I liked Squaresoft Final Fantasy games much more than SE Final Fantasy games. I enjoyed every game before X infinitely more than X and higher. Even 8, ugly redheaded stepchild that it was.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 4:11pm by LockeColeMA

Well, I also hate Oblivion, and the Fallout 3 (one and two are fine). It's pretty all the same general gameplay to me. Again, I'm sure many people will disagree with me.

Err, hardly flavor of the week. I've hated the games ever since I first played them, so it's hardly new. It's also hardly a popular thing to do, seeing as how I'm one of the infinitely small minority who vocally dislike the games.

I'll give you that a lot of it is just personal taste. I really don't like the style of the games. Beyond that though, they have done some things I consider to be objectively harmful to the genre. First of all, they don't innovate at all. Whether you think the formula is good or bad, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect are all disturbingly similar games. I think SE has a lot of failures with trying out random and poorly thought out new features, but at least they're doing something different. Even more than that, most Western RPGs are also pretty similar. I'm not sure who was first and who is the copycat, but there is definitely some massive incest in the western RPG industry. Could they go one game without some good evil character development system?

It's not so much that Bioware is the sole source of what I see as the flaw so much as they are a flagship for it. I see them as the Halo of RPGs. I think their games are hugely popular and widely overrated. I think they're milking the same idea over and over, and that EA only bought them out because they thought they still had much to learn from Bioware.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 5:11pm by Allegory

Bioware titles of late are relatively formulaic, strategically and can be tactically easy, with relatively limited character development. But I do quite often like the flavor of characters they present.

Dragon age was fun, but I stopped playing when it became too easy tactically.

But I'm scratching my head on your dismissal of Baldurs Gate.