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Gaming and Girls, Ugh?Follow

#1 Jul 15 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here’s a post on girl gaming since I’m bored… inspired by an IRC conversation. Yeah, I hate that it’s even a matter of concern and arises as a topic.

If you are any bit familiar with modern Western gaming culture, it’s either very loved (so cool! hot! wow rare!), or very hated (girls suck, drama, attention *****). Why so often a negative impression and a negative reaction? Sure, there are a lot of “undesirable” elements that get introduced by such things: they’re so different and care about things like socializing and causing drama and getting attention instead of trying to play the game well! They get free items easily, that’s so unfair and dumb! The stereotype has expanded so far that it’s almost guaranteed flame bait to simply mention it. And what’s the deal with having girl teams and competitions? What’s the point? Are they limited in potential and can not compete with men? Do they need to stick together because of discrimination? Is it because of *** appeal for the sake of media promotion? Personally, I think it’s insulting.

People often put the blame on girls, but isn’t the root cause in treating them with too much differentiation which results in segregation? What reason is there for this treatment to begin with? I think people who treat them as something special or as a subclass are more to blame for enabling those trends. And in regards to competition and typical skill levels, there’s the matter of personal priorities, and also cultural and upbringing influences which results in difference approaches and level of dedication.

I’m tired of hearing things like “best girl I’ve played” or “really good for a girl” or “never expected and surprised you’re a girl.” So I say, stop making a big deal out of it and let everyone play and interact on the same field, with fair considerations. If only everyone would take it easy, stop generalizing as much, and value or hate people as individuals compared to the whole… many of these issues in regard to gender should disappear… ideally. Gaming should be a neutral and unbiased space.
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#2 Jul 18 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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But Typewriter might have won one of those matches if not for the thoughts of a purty melon patch!!
#3 Jul 18 2010 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guess that's his loss then!
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#4 Jul 18 2010 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
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All depends on how you look at it...all depends :P
#5 Jul 18 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Irrelevant because we know he lost because the game was too old.
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#6 Jul 19 2010 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I love you Chime. XD
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#7 Jul 19 2010 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Me too... me too.
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#8 Jul 19 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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And dont forget that the hit reg was terrible too.
#9 Jul 20 2010 at 5:37 AM Rating: Good
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How are you defining gaming? MMOs are blanket and anyone can be good or bad at them, regardless of gender or culture. However if you take, for example, FPS games, it is rare to meet a girl who is good at them, and if you were to encounter one online (especially if they kicked your ***) you'd have every right to be surprised because it just doesn't happen - not that it *can't*, but it is incredibly rare.

The negative views of girls in MMOs are different in that gaming is undeniably a male-oriented industry. It has always been the way of mankind to seperate things into gender classes (jobs, cleaning, cooking, sport, etc) so completely overcoming this even in today's society is a challenge. Added to this is the fact that there are many many many documented cases of women exploiting their sexuality to progress (that woman who prostituted herself for an epic mount in WoWs' Burning Crusade springs to mind) creates an image as surely as the men who respond to such things create the stereotype of the lonely basement-dwelling loser. In such an over-commercialised society it is difficult to escape such prejudices and while I agree that each person should be judged solely on the merit of their actions, it is just not feasible to expect.
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#10 Jul 20 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Afaik there is still quite a divide in MMOs and quite a few other genres. I'm not saying that it's not rare, but basically I'm saying that the preconception of a limit or major differences in potential or character and typical responses to such is irritating and unnecessary. I know there are a lot of reasons of why things are they way they are, but it doesn't mean that I like it.

Also about the women exploiting their sexuality to progress for mounts and such, there are actually a bunch of men who have done the same on places like forums, Craigslist, etc. Except instead of getting a huge long standing negative backlash, they just get a few laughs and then quickly forgotten for the most part.
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#11 Jul 20 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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The last survey I read about (about a year ago) had the girls vs guys playing MMO's ratio at 3-10 I believe, and was on the rise. That would play a heavy factor upon the rarity factor of a girl vs guy competition.



Also as a funny note,
One of Piratess's old guild mates did a college thesis on "The benefits of playing a girl in an MMO (or mangina in this case)". This was back in 2003 right after the launch of SWG. Was funny to hang out in the cantina's when he was doing this report and poke fun at him, plus he would give us some of the loot sometimes that "lonely guys" would give him. :)
#12 Jul 20 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that that sort of social commentary can even exist online. I know it exists, I know why it exists. But, it just makes men seem really... well... gullible and simplistic and silly in that department. lol

Edited, Jul 20th 2010 4:56pm by Chimeko
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#13 Jul 20 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Well my t-shirt reads "Yes, men are pigs..now who wants sausage!" ;P
but..ya.
#14 Jul 20 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe if you gave some loot as an incentive!
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#15 Jul 20 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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That made LOL in RL because it was that funny :P
#16 Jul 22 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I personally enjoy gaming with a mix of male/ female company.
I' don't want this to sound wrong but i probably will.
it's nice to hear more female voices in vent
other then just guys all the time.
I've played many games with a # of females that were talented at them.
For instance Chimeko literally bent m over in quake and inserted rail gun
up me ****(without lube).
just nice to have a mix of races and gender to play with is what I'm getting at i guess.
#17 Jul 22 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
just nice to have a mix of races and gender to play with is what I'm getting at i guess.


Its nice to have variety!

Otherwise everything gets quite boring.
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#18 Jul 23 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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When it comes to gaming for me, gender is largely irrelevant. In reality, I tend to connect and converse better with females because I'm such a reasonable and open-minded guy with great listening and understanding. However, that only translates into the gaming world so far because I do not seek out female gamers.
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#19 Jul 23 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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If those are 4 traits that help with you with connecting and conversing with females, what would be the traits that would help you connect and converse with males?
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#20 Jul 23 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I wasn't meaning to imply that that was conclusive to gender. Just that in my experience those are things that females tend to look for on a communicative level, so that tends to promote healthy conversation and friendship. That said, most of my best friends are guys. I guess I was more relating it to casual friendships/acquaintances.
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#21 Jul 23 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fair enough. I think that says more about what you prefer than your own communicative traits though.
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#22 Jul 23 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Not necessarily. Females are more likely to put emphasis on the traits I mentioned, which weren't all inclusive, just a sampling. Guy to guy friendships are a lot simpler in that regard. I'm being general with that, by the way.
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#23 Jul 23 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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I meant regarding most of your best friends being guys. Or are you saying that isn't the case?
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#24 Jul 24 2010 at 2:33 AM Rating: Decent
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It's not really a big deal anymore. I can understand why it's a big deal for teenage boys, though. These days every other girl plays games, even if she might be the Queen of shoes IRL. Mature players don't care if their fellow team-members are female/male, it's all about skills.

The teenage-boys might get lured into the trap and offer bribes to the hawt girl-gamers. Hoping for revealing photos/videos or even CYBER. Yeah you heard me, some of them want to talk dirty. Just create a female character in any random mmo and shout "anyone wanna cyber?" in world-chat. The pervs will bombard your private-chat.

10 years ago it was hard being a crossdresser in any game, people always asked if you really were a girl. These days genderbending is very easy to create and most of the time you will have a big LOL how retarded men/boys really are.
#25 Jul 24 2010 at 2:41 AM Rating: Decent
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It's not really a big deal anymore. I can understand why it's a big deal for teenage boys, though.


Personally I find it to be more maturity level than anything. I've come across guys in MMO's that absolutely FREAK OUT when I get in vent and they find out I'm a chick. Even then it has nothing to do with my play skill - its.../zomgmusthiton.

I've lost track how many guys 30+ have freaked out then gone all pervy on me trying to get pictures, video, webcam, etc. For a while I just stopped going into new vents because I got sick of it tbh. Its funny at first and then it just gets stupid.

I think I've been hit on more buy older guys actually, versus teenaged boys, and the reason for that is probably pretty simple. Men are wired to be attracted to younger women. Younger women are fertile, older women aren't necessarily. /shrugs I wish guys would get over it, but eh...horomones will keep on kicking and the problem will never entirely go away.

Now I just let people know up-front I'm a chick usually, laugh when they assume I'm bad, then totally pwn their pre-conceptions. I like letting know people up-front I'm a chick though, gets all the "AMAGAD UR A CHICK CYB0RZ ME NAO!! PICS NAO!!! AMAGAD AMAGAD /faint" bullcrap out of the way.
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#26 Jul 24 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm somewhat fairly young compared to some (25). The attractive to age thing doesn't imply to me.
I'm gonna get me **** kicked for saying this but. In most cases younger women in most of my
experience can tend to be a bit more annoying and I'm using that very very loosely.
I've been atracted to women of all ages. I once dated a women in her 30's when I was 20
well...I wouldn't call it dating but ya. In any case that mostly irrelevant i guess.
I find women sometimes more enjoyabe to game with because they listen more than guys do.
when you get in a game that require strategy most guy think they know almost everythig about
said game. Not implying that women don't but they tend to listen and try to work together more.
At least this is something I have noticed.
But at the same time the stereotypical guy comes out of me and it definitely is a lot nicer
to listen to a woman's voice over vent than a guy's , but that could just be me.
#27 Jul 24 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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These days every other girl plays games, even if she might be the Queen of shoes IRL. Mature players don't care if their fellow team-members are female/male, it's all about skills.

Yes the % is definitely climbing, but isn't maturity kind of short in stock online?
So bossCCCP, do you have any good personal stories about this?

Anyways, my general policy is not to make a big deal out of it. If people get annoying about it, I just stop paying attention to them and caring what they think. I tend to have some minimum standards for maturity for me to even stay in contact with someone.
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#28 Jul 25 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I dunno, last few years of gaming it has always been with plenty of girls around so I find it to be the norm. I will say however that any group of people to be fun and interesting needs a variety of people of different personalities and often I think a healthy balance of girls and boys will make company more fun without necessarily having any sexual implications even though that will of course happen.

If you have to put up with **** they you're just hanging out with the wrong people and should move on, or they could just be trolling for reactions.
#29 Jul 25 2010 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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In the past I played mostly Eastern region games, which have had plenty of girls around since ~10y or so ago. Since that point in the past, the amount seems to be steadily growing for Western regions too. I do agree about variety being interesting... the problem is that there is such a high % of people who are annoying or start **** over it. It's avoidable, just sad that it exists though.
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#30 Jul 26 2010 at 6:14 AM Rating: Good
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While the common consensus here would seem to be that maturity is the deciding factor, I would argue that it is more likely to be lonliness. I have known women to act in exactly the same way, both in reality and on MMOs, when they wish to find someone to cuddle with at night. And, at the tender age of 21, you'd be surprised how many women of varying ages have asked me for **** pictures.

At the end of the day it's an instant common hobby and for any guy playing games, gamer girls are the holy grail. If someone starts hitting on you in a game, it could be viewed as similar to a guy coming up to you in a bar and hitting on you there. Over the internet it is just easier due to the usual anonymity (and also hence not likely to be successful). The male mindeset - in general - remains the same, just the scenario changes. For example, a new girl was recruited at my job the other week. We were talkeing, and she said she'd been a gymnast for 11 years, so I asked what award level she had achieved. Another guy overheard us and immediately asked if she could get both legs behind her head. Over the course of the week every other guy in the office asked that exact same question.

If I was out on the town and happened to stumble into a group of girls or a hen party I would expect to be leered at. Sometimes these things happen and if it's uncomfortable you just have to ignore it and move on. Luckily in MMOs there is a handy feature often provided to help with just that. Smiley: schooled
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#31 Jul 26 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Loneliness is also definitely a factor often at play, but wouldn't how they handle it be related to their maturity? Or perhaps just classiness? I don't expect everyone to be mature but I certainly prefer it at least a majority of times.
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#32 Jul 26 2010 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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Oh it's certainly preferable but how exactly would you define maturity? There would be many elements to be people that could be defined as "mature" but they still catcall in the street - where I would assume that there could be particular low points in a person's life where lonliness might get the better of them and provoke them into something they might otherwise be considered too "mature" to do.
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#33 Jul 26 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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It takes a lot of maintenance to keep a good reputation, but only one or a few mistakes to ruin one. I think of maturity somewhat along these lines. How big of an offense was made and in what sort of situation and for what reasons? If it's minor, it'll probably be overlooked or forgotten... if it's major it'll be remembered for quite some time.
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#34 Jul 26 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds like high school.
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#35 Jul 26 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, this is the internets, don'tchaknow?
#36 Jul 26 2010 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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go back to class, kuro
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#37 Jul 28 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Stereotypes play a factor in real life just as much as in gaming and usually it really doesn't take that long for people to draw a conclusion about someone. The thing is, the gaming world seems a bit more fast paced and people have a tendency to be more flamboyant or extroverted on the internet.

Think about it. How do you meet people in games? Through chat? Through grouping? Two biggest avenues I can think of at least. So you basically have from the time you start reading a conversation or a group to the time you end it or log off to pass judgment. That's not all that much time. Taking into account that people usually don't show as much patience on the internet as they maybe would in real life and the fact that people may feel more confident sitting behind a screen, it is very easy for stereotypes to be enhanced.

Audience plays a part as well. It would be pretty naive to deny that for a very long time the gaming audience has been male. Therefore it is very easy and makes quite a bit of sense to assume without asking that the person next to you is male as well.

As females started showing their faces into the gaming world more and more we get to see gender sociology played out before our eyes first hand and on a smaller scale. In the beginning of this female gamer movement, the shock factor was plus ten when encountering a female. Male and female then had to relearn each other and how to communicate with each other all over again in this new gaming world.

You will see good and bad female personalities and good and bad male personalities in gaming and stereotypes all have their exceptions to rules. As we relearn them all and go forward like we have been, we won't necessarily get rid of any of the bad stereotypes, but will, instead, add good stereotypes to the list.

Edited, Jul 28th 2010 11:41pm by Lawlyss
#38 Jul 29 2010 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Judging from population by gender, I wonder who is most obsessed with genderdifferentiation. Sure there are cases of overexposure to basement and sexual deprivation, causing a certain hate towards opposite gender, but that should go both ways. Personally, gender is irrelevant and I think the majority of gamers think the same way. Only skill- and schedule reliability are relevant. Unfortunately, category 1 appears the most dominant in community media, thus breeding an incorrect stereotyping for male gamers in general. Community media nowadays are nothing but fuelzones for more sexual deprivation, and ~80% of the content is useless to the community majority.
#39 Jul 29 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree, a lot of women do exploit their sexuality and gender for gain and attention. There are some of us though who do like to enjoy the content and be social, its the insecure men and silly teenagers who unfortunately let the side down by encouraging these girls.
#40 Jul 30 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes the % is definitely climbing, but isn't maturity kind of short in stock online?
So bossCCCP, do you have any good personal stories about this?


Are you trying to trick me into spilling the beans if there was any outrageous cyber-violations including me and some lonely female gamer? I'll never admit to such wild accusations like that.

I do live by three simple rules when it comes to female players
01.) Do not idolize/worship her.
02.) Who cares if she looks like a model IRL, or if she has HUGE milkshakes, or likes to cosplay as your favorite anime/manga/gaming-char?
03.) Never start any drama with a girl, not even for the lols.

When you follow these 3 simple rules you will look at female gamers in a diffrent light and never again will you ask for cyber/pics/camshows. Not even if she offers it, you will simply reply with; "Sorry kid, Im married to this game and no women will make me cheat on it".

If that doesn't throw her off balance, not much will. She might rage and call you a geek/nerd/game-oholic (she might even play the homosexual card) for not giving her the attention she demands. Normal gamer-girls don't offer anyone cyber/pics/camshows for free. They always want something in return. You better run away and never look back again, heck you might even have to log-out. Give away your char to a friend of yours and re-roll on another server just to avoid that stalker.

This is the reason why my 1st char in any mmo is always of the female gender. So that no girls will try to give me free pics/cyber/camshows :p






#41 Jul 30 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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BossCCCP, thou dost protest too much.
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#42 Jul 30 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Tire tracks lead to skiddish behavior??? lol
#43 Jul 30 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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one day bossCCCP is going to run into a bi girl trying to give his girl character free pics/cyber/camshows and his world view will be shattered.
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#44 Jul 30 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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Chimeko wrote:
one day bossCCCP is going to run into a bi girl trying to give his girl character free pics/cyber/camshows and his world view will be shattered.


I think that's pushing the odds a little too far, but nonetheless a number of teenage boys reading that just exploded in their pants.
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#45 Jul 30 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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This is the reason why my 1st char in any mmo is always of the female gender. So that no girls will try to give me free pics/cyber/camshows :p


Maybe I just attract lots of bi/lez chicks, but I always play a female toon and I always get chicks hitting on me and stuff, and thats before they know I'm a chick. Maybe its just the way I talk/type but...yea...

._.
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#46 Jul 30 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe I just attract lots of bi/lez chicks, but I always play a female toon and I always get chicks hitting on me and stuff, and thats before they know I'm a chick. Maybe its just the way I talk/type but...yea...


Haha, this reminded me of this time in SWG (I played a wookiee male) and was flirting with this girl in the cantina. She told me she was a ******* and I replied "OMG, I am too!!".
A few days later this was spoiled as I misstelled in spacial chat, in front of her and a group of her friends and mine....my co-leader got ****** at me because they wouldn't let him play in their SWG band anymore. :D
#47 Jul 30 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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poor godbone
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#48 Mar 14 2012 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
Chimeko wrote:
Here’s a post on girl gaming since I’m bored… inspired by an IRC conversation. Yeah, I hate that it’s even a matter of concern and arises as a topic.

If you are any bit familiar with modern Western gaming culture, it’s either very loved (so cool! hot! wow rare!), or very hated (girls suck, drama, attention *****). Why so often a negative impression and a negative reaction? Sure, there are a lot of “undesirable” elements that get introduced by such things: they’re so different and care about things like socializing and causing drama and getting attention instead of trying to play the game well! They get free items easily, that’s so unfair and dumb! The stereotype has expanded so far that it’s almost guaranteed flame bait to simply mention it. And what’s the deal with having girl teams and competitions? What’s the point? Are they limited in potential and can not compete with men? Do they need to stick together because of discrimination? Is it because of *** appeal for the sake of media promotion? Personally, I think it’s insulting.

People often put the blame on girls, but isn’t the root cause in treating them with too much differentiation which results in segregation? What reason is there for this treatment to begin with? I think people who treat them as something special or as a subclass are more to blame for enabling those trends. And in regards to competition and typical skill levels, there’s the matter of personal priorities, and also cultural and upbringing influences which results in difference approaches and level of dedication.

I’m tired of hearing things like “best girl I’ve played” or “really good for a girl” or “never expected and surprised you’re a girl.” So I say, stop making a big deal out of it and let everyone play and interact on the same field, with fair considerations. If only everyone would take it easy, stop generalizing as much, and value or hate people as individuals compared to the whole… many of these issues in regard to gender should disappear… ideally. Gaming should be a neutral and unbiased space.


Where is the +9000 button? Smiley: smile
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