Here's a question. What class comes to mind when you think of the one that gets the least credit for its efficiency in a given group role?
HAHAHA! I'm not going to say what you think I am! You think I'm going to say rogue for dd, but I'm thinking chanter! I can't count the number of times one of my melees has been grouped with a chanter, sent out a tell to one of the warriors (of all tank classes) giving them group info, and been declined because according to the tank in question, a chanter only slows the group down.
In my opinion, a well played chanter, especially animator, is capable of creating perhaps the largest damage output of any class in the game in a standard group setting, given the right group. In a group with two quad hitters you have the potential for 8 procs, plus any attacks of the chosen pet, plus their nukes, plus they keep the mana of the group full and let them slaughter as fast as they possibly can without having to hold back for fear that the melee will bleed himself out of power or the tank will lose aggro. End result, wholesale slaughter.
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I definately agree with you on saying Enchanter.
They have potential to greatly benefit the group they are in, but a large number of them do not keep their mana buffs going. Due to this many people view tham as lazy, and many tanks do not like to aggro war with an Enchanter's pet when the chanter can't get a charmed mob.
Other related problems- Mana Buffing Alchemists and PROC buffing SKs.
Due to players not being knowledgable of their class, or lazy, that people now assume enchanters are useless.
Edited, Tue Jun 14 05:23:31 2005 by Onoskelis
They have potential to greatly benefit the group they are in, but a large number of them do not keep their mana buffs going. Due to this many people view tham as lazy, and many tanks do not like to aggro war with an Enchanter's pet when the chanter can't get a charmed mob.
Other related problems- Mana Buffing Alchemists and PROC buffing SKs.
Due to players not being knowledgable of their class, or lazy, that people now assume enchanters are useless.
Edited, Tue Jun 14 05:23:31 2005 by Onoskelis
...Either that or people just don't want to take a gamble when they invite an enchanter; It is better to assume they are impotent instead of siphoning through all the unknowledgable ones, to find one who knows how to play their role impecably.
Maybe people know thay are good, they just do not give the people playing them enough credit.
Maybe people know thay are good, they just do not give the people playing them enough credit.
A well played Paladin, or any tank for that matter is the job with the least credit. Rarely do you ever hear a group tell you how well you've tanked, but you'll sure hear it if it wasn't so good.
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. ~River Tam
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It doesn't seem like anyone is congratulated for their performance in a group.
Even though people talk bad about many tanks, because they didn't live up to their standards, I think nearly everyone understands how essential they are.
Even though people talk bad about many tanks, because they didn't live up to their standards, I think nearly everyone understands how essential they are.
The thing about congradulating other players is there is very few excellent ones to group with.
Tanks, I have been with many great tanks that do get congadulated, but a lot more bad tanks that should not even have a tank that level, and even more average tanks that fill the role bearly that dont really deserve it.
Casters for most part dont get thanks, they are there to do damage, and people tend to forget them, unless they afk, or r home with their pet out.
Enc do get more thanks then other casters, since they provide something to the other members with power. The procs though valuable, are not impressive for increasing the group damage. The average quader has base int, so instead of 8 chances a round to go off with 2 quaders it is really more like 1/8 chance. Does it help yes, but not very noticable. Then there are the classes that dont want the quad since they have their own to use.
Melees are in the same boat as casters, unless there is a bad tank and they step in to tank, people dont really notice what they do.
Bards do get more then average thanks, or atleast I do, but again it is the dances that earn them not any of my other buffs, or dd'ing.
Healers tend to get the most thanks, and they have the most noticable affect on others, who would of guessed. I have seen a few times where the healer got thanks, but let groupmembers die without trying to heal them because they only focused on the tank. But they did keep the tank alive.
Tanks, I have been with many great tanks that do get congadulated, but a lot more bad tanks that should not even have a tank that level, and even more average tanks that fill the role bearly that dont really deserve it.
Casters for most part dont get thanks, they are there to do damage, and people tend to forget them, unless they afk, or r home with their pet out.
Enc do get more thanks then other casters, since they provide something to the other members with power. The procs though valuable, are not impressive for increasing the group damage. The average quader has base int, so instead of 8 chances a round to go off with 2 quaders it is really more like 1/8 chance. Does it help yes, but not very noticable. Then there are the classes that dont want the quad since they have their own to use.
Melees are in the same boat as casters, unless there is a bad tank and they step in to tank, people dont really notice what they do.
Bards do get more then average thanks, or atleast I do, but again it is the dances that earn them not any of my other buffs, or dd'ing.
Healers tend to get the most thanks, and they have the most noticable affect on others, who would of guessed. I have seen a few times where the healer got thanks, but let groupmembers die without trying to heal them because they only focused on the tank. But they did keep the tank alive.
The most underrated class in EQoA has to be Shamans. They are so flexible when building the toon. You can build for DD'ing, or healing, or both! They cam made to be great solo'ers, or group animals! They can be made into great duelers too!
Im gonna have to say rogues, cause I cant tell ya how many monks and rangers think they do SOOO much more damage.
a ranger cant even compare, so they need to back offf on that...
as for monks, its REALLY close, but I still say rogues are more damge. Monks argue this saying they'll win a duel, but all that means is that they deal theirs faster (and go oom).
Here's a story for ya, one day I was in a group grindin for like 5 mins, and there is one space left in the group. So the leader says, "a 42 and a 44 monk on reg, which one?" and the tank says, "grab both and boot the rogue, monks own" and so they did.
...and from that day on I have hated monks with a vengeance...the end
a ranger cant even compare, so they need to back offf on that...
as for monks, its REALLY close, but I still say rogues are more damge. Monks argue this saying they'll win a duel, but all that means is that they deal theirs faster (and go oom).
Here's a story for ya, one day I was in a group grindin for like 5 mins, and there is one space left in the group. So the leader says, "a 42 and a 44 monk on reg, which one?" and the tank says, "grab both and boot the rogue, monks own" and so they did.
...and from that day on I have hated monks with a vengeance...the end
No class. Or if we're going past gropuing, everything but defender warriors and druid/clerics set up for a raid. If you need a group, you don't go around saying.. well.. we need a tank, but all thats around is a paladin, so I'll wait.. Or gosh, we need a healer, but theres only shamans..
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well.. we need a tank, but all thats around is a paladin, so I'll wait.. Or gosh, we need a healer, but theres only shamans
I have a 31 paladin and lower level tanks have gotton invites faster then me. And when i was not on pal people were saying wait for another tank other then the pal.
Palidns have the best defence of all tanks in most situations even tho they do low damage.(i can solo a white for 5 minutes before itll die)
The two class i dont like grouping with is alchemists(some not all)the majority of alcs ive grouped with(mainly at low levels) have been lazy and rarely throw or complain about not having enough potions.
And necromancers(yes i know im one) but the majority of necs will afk durring there group almsot ecsclusivy. Almost every group im in at xrags with other necs the guy goes afk and sits there and if pet dies the guy wont recast until he gets back which is sometimes after he gets booted. Im proud to say im not one of thoose necs and i rarely go afk unless i need a restroom break or need to help parents.
the reason most people dont like certain classes is because the people that play the classes are lazy.
I would have to say shamans as well. More specificly non-Mystic Shamans. Mystics are good toons and are almost a must have on raids. However I think alot of people overlook alot of other shamans. I mean Elders are just completely bad *** imo. As sing said shamans can be built for dd'ing, helaing, or both. Elders certainly fall into the category of both. With polar bear form and avatar they are beasts.
double
Edited, Tue Jun 14 17:03:00 2005 by crazydavis
Edited, Tue Jun 14 17:03:00 2005 by crazydavis
16 posts
I'd say Enchanter as well. I used to hate them but one day they were the only non-tanks available for group, so I grouped with them all day long. Now that I've seen them and what they can do if played correctly, i want one in every group from now on. As for damage, sure they dont do as much as a chain-nuking wizard, but they have very nice buffs and their pets can come in handy if you pull too many, even if its just for taking the crits.
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I say Druids, everyone thinks they are totally useless during raids, but the AoE heals are effin' nice!(If its a wilding) Their FR/CR buffs are ok too =P
Edited, Tue Jun 14 19:13:15 2005 by landarjon
Edited, Tue Jun 14 19:13:15 2005 by landarjon
Animators are absolutly kick-*** on raid wtf are you guys talkin about!? Enchanters themselves kinda are underrated but once you get Animator you become uber.
I'd say a Combat-Path Bard. Everyone says they suck but if you got Combat-Path Bravo Bard you would be one kick-*** DD.
I'd say a Combat-Path Bard. Everyone says they suck but if you got Combat-Path Bravo Bard you would be one kick-*** DD.
I think combat path bravo may have too much waste. With the 2 buffs stacking, were form, and gear it would be over kill for that minute.
but definetly the most underrated thing in the game is the Were-Hunter MC's, I know a druid/divine were-hunter who can deal pretty nasty damage and is a good healer.
That is true, were hunters are over looked since were's provide so much more in stats and have better cms. But the damage abilities at sixty are pretty nice.
I cant tell you whats the most underated over all but can break it down for arch type
healers is druid, They say they have the lowest heals and have the least def and hp so people make fun of them for dying (im one of them) I played a druid a sham and a cleric and heals are the same and have had the heals tested at higher levels it all comes down to cha and special heals.
Tanks- Shadowknight people think they cant tank as well as a warrior or a pally which is bs they can
Caster- Enchanter the have the lowest dmg nukes and lowest pet dmg over all with a few variables on charms and GA People feel they dont contribute as much as another caster or a bard
Melee- Rangers people feel there tree hugging ****** who cant hit hard which is complete BS
Im gonna have to say rogues, cause I cant tell ya how many monks and rangers think they do SOOO much more damage.
a ranger cant even compare, so they need to back offf on that...
Sorry but playing a ranger and building him to do damage they do compare. Im the first to make fun of rangers being tree huggers and such and being gay but rangers are valuble and compared to rogues and monks are more valuble high end then any other melee class cept for bards.
A ranger with sword path procs like no other and with enough int can easily proc twice per quad plus all specials. A bow path ranger can take you out from afar and never run oom. A hunter with true shot will outflat kill a rogue before you can even think about a backstab. A ranger built right can kill rogues 2 levels higher then them and that i have personally tested.
Actually bordael has outflat said nothing outdamages a monk in melee and overall only a wizard can outdamage a monk. Only problem a monk has is the long cast times and recast which a rogue can pull off quicker damage.
you can search the soe boards for this it is there
healers is druid, They say they have the lowest heals and have the least def and hp so people make fun of them for dying (im one of them) I played a druid a sham and a cleric and heals are the same and have had the heals tested at higher levels it all comes down to cha and special heals.
Tanks- Shadowknight people think they cant tank as well as a warrior or a pally which is bs they can
Caster- Enchanter the have the lowest dmg nukes and lowest pet dmg over all with a few variables on charms and GA People feel they dont contribute as much as another caster or a bard
Melee- Rangers people feel there tree hugging ****** who cant hit hard which is complete BS
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Im gonna have to say rogues, cause I cant tell ya how many monks and rangers think they do SOOO much more damage.
a ranger cant even compare, so they need to back offf on that...
Sorry but playing a ranger and building him to do damage they do compare. Im the first to make fun of rangers being tree huggers and such and being gay but rangers are valuble and compared to rogues and monks are more valuble high end then any other melee class cept for bards.
A ranger with sword path procs like no other and with enough int can easily proc twice per quad plus all specials. A bow path ranger can take you out from afar and never run oom. A hunter with true shot will outflat kill a rogue before you can even think about a backstab. A ranger built right can kill rogues 2 levels higher then them and that i have personally tested.
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as for monks, its REALLY close, but I still say rogues are more damge. Monks argue this saying they'll win a duel, but all that means is that they deal theirs faster (and go oom).
Actually bordael has outflat said nothing outdamages a monk in melee and overall only a wizard can outdamage a monk. Only problem a monk has is the long cast times and recast which a rogue can pull off quicker damage.
you can search the soe boards for this it is there
[sm][black]Agreed, you stole the words from my mouth...I proc plenty, and I can do many things people say Rangers can't do...and one of them is DD, I can DD just as well as any other Melee...mabye even better (dependent on how everyone is built, armor, weaps etc...)
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Sorry but playing a ranger and building him to do damage they do compare. Im the first to make fun of rangers being tree huggers and such and being gay but rangers are valuble and compared to rogues and monks are more valuble high end then any other melee class cept for bards.
A ranger with sword path procs like no other and with enough int can easily proc twice per quad plus all specials. A bow path ranger can take you out from afar and never run oom. A hunter with true shot will outflat kill a rogue before you can even think about a backstab. A ranger built right can kill rogues 2 levels higher then them and that i have personally tested.
A ranger with sword path procs like no other and with enough int can easily proc twice per quad plus all specials. A bow path ranger can take you out from afar and never run oom. A hunter with true shot will outflat kill a rogue before you can even think about a backstab. A ranger built right can kill rogues 2 levels higher then them and that i have personally tested.
True Dark, but any melee built right can kill another melee of any class two levels higher. The main weakness a rogue has in a duel and in a group is the recasts on their attacks, but you have to survive 10 of them before they have to worry about it, which isn't always easy since, as you and I have both stated on previous occasions, rogue damage output comes in a huge burst. Doing that basically negates your heal over time and makes the duel start out based on whether or not you have the hit points and defense to withstand the onslaught. If so, then the biggest weakness of a duel-based rogue comes into play. They're the only melee class (unless they go berserker or purchase lyco regen or first aid cms) with no capabilities of healing themselves without food or a long wait. That's especially true in a monk verus rogue duel. In most I've seen, it was the heals and not the actual massive damage output of a monk that won the fight, simply because a monk's advantage in that regard is based over an extended period of time as a result of the long recasts a rogue has. Most melee fights don't last that long.
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Actually bordael has outflat said nothing outdamages a monk in melee and overall only a wizard can outdamage a monk. Only problem a monk has is the long cast times and recast which a rogue can pull off quicker damage
12 posts
[b][/b][i][/i][][/] Enchanters in my opinion(having a 40 ench) has to be one of the most versitile classes on the game... who else can charm a wisp (or any mob) 3 levels below there own level? If an enchanter knows what hes doing he can charm a caster that will do more damage then himself this way he can concentrate on keeping the group full of mana and not having to worry about casting himself.And they have root so they can keep an eye out for xtra mobs that get aggro. They are 1 of the only class that can get all coaches good and evil so getting to groups are no problem.. One thing bad about an enchanter is most of the time to use the dmg proc the tank has to be a warrior or pallidan because the proc cancels out the shroud that a sk uses.. My biggest pet peeve when playing my enchanter with a group is the pet taunt... On the PC version of eq the pets taunt can be disabled maybe eqoa could or should put this option in the game to balance things out.
i gotta say mage an/or ench both need respected more they have so many uses to list and are both quite powerful.
32 posts
i would have to say that rangers are the most underrated and i think thats just because there are to many bad rangers (i think lort caused that) but my ranger can pull agro from most tanks with only my dd, no spells and i out damage most other melles like rouges in a group because i can use my spells more
well this is a bit tough
Tanks, i always give a good one credit and a bad one...well i don't say much. There really are few good tanks at my level anyway.
Healers, well they do receive a lot of credit.
Batteries- I'm a power nec and people are always grateful for that, also when bards are in the group everyone seems grateful. However, enchanters are a different story. Most enchanters I've seen don't nuke as fast as me, or barely at all which is really wrong seeing as they are not a healer only meant to keep their mana up for one task. PLus, their pets are really annoying to tanks
Well now that I think of it, any dd seems to be lacking of credit. No one comes up to a wizzy and says "thanks for nuking" or to a rogue and say "thanks for having such high str/dex" So i'll say and dd, minus the batteries.
Tanks, i always give a good one credit and a bad one...well i don't say much. There really are few good tanks at my level anyway.
Healers, well they do receive a lot of credit.
Batteries- I'm a power nec and people are always grateful for that, also when bards are in the group everyone seems grateful. However, enchanters are a different story. Most enchanters I've seen don't nuke as fast as me, or barely at all which is really wrong seeing as they are not a healer only meant to keep their mana up for one task. PLus, their pets are really annoying to tanks
Well now that I think of it, any dd seems to be lacking of credit. No one comes up to a wizzy and says "thanks for nuking" or to a rogue and say "thanks for having such high str/dex" So i'll say and dd, minus the batteries.
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