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#1 Jan 14 2004 at 11:26 PM Rating: Default
hi i dont know if all of u think this but i think the pvp system is a total piece of **** i was in a cantina last night in bestine (a imp town, and i am imp) and i was declared with my darktrooper meeting a friend and trading animals and this stronger rebel guy comes in there and kicks my **** in the cantina
and then the **** killed my darktrooper, thats mean man, thats just mean! so i think they should change the pvp, high lvl players should not be able to fight low lvl players, the whole declared thing should be able to be turned on and off in a sec instead of finding a npc imp and waiten a hour for it to go away, and also that u cant kill faction pets, the darktrooper cost me 4200 to get, now i could easily get that in less then a day with no prob but still... now what do u guys think? am i just being a little **** or do u guys think that some of this should be changed? share your idea!
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#2 Jan 15 2004 at 12:57 AM Rating: Default
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I vote for little **** sorry.

You were declared... If you don't want to be killed.... uh... don't declare?

that isn't to say I haven't done that same thing you did. I've been in bestine, happy as a pig in poop, next thing I know my nose if full of dirt, and I'm in need of a clone. It seriously **** you off, but thems the breaks. I know how you feel. And I was a little **** for whining about it when it happened to me.

we can complain together, come meet me in anchorhead with 15 of our imp friends. I'm sure we can make ourselves feel better.
#3 Jan 15 2004 at 12:58 AM Rating: Default
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Well, its a complex question really. Do I think you are whining? Yeah, a little. You knew the PvP risks when you declared. Assuming that no words were exchanged and you were minding your own business, do I think you got griefed? Most definitely. But that is part of PvP unfortunately.
I also happen to think you made a very valid point in that you should be able to go covert (as in -wearing a uniform or marked armor = overt, wearing regular clothing or armor = covert) without having to go see an NPC. That is ,by far, the goofiest thing in this game.

However, being that you were in Bestine you probably assumed you were safe, especially in the cantina. A reasonable assumption I grant you, but still one that earned you a free dirt nap. And you are right, PvP does need to be changed and the devs say they are hard at work on that.
For the time being though, I would suggest that you not use the Dark Trooper when you are conducting casual business. It tends to attract people of the sort you ran into. Notch on their belt and bragging rights with their griefer buddies.

I don't agree at all with level distinctions between players. It takes the realism out of the game. If I am a reb novice artisan and you are an imp trickshot pistoleer should you not be able to put me flat on my back if both are overt?
Is it fair? No, but then thats why there is a rebellion. Also, imho, it gives you all the more reason to strive to one day become stronger than the guy that laid you out.

#4 Jan 15 2004 at 7:16 AM Rating: Default
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I'd like to see the auto TEF go away while trading. I made a guy a crafting tool, traded with him, and wallah...I'm a sitting duck. Even got one for healing a band member that wasn't overt that I could tell. And why can't I go into my OWN house if I have a TEF? Stupid rule.

Like Trunksbrando, I've been killed while overt in the cantina, but it was an Imp in my case. Guess he didn't like the fact that I was sitting down, back to the door, and giving a pet to a dancer.

BTW...this is my first MMORG, but I thought cantinas and med centers were "safe" places from PVP.
#5 Jan 15 2004 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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63 posts
I'm not much into this galactic war thing but there are reasons why the house thing was implemented and on the trade thing

Quote:
I'd like to see the auto TEF go away while trading.

People would exploit the **** out of it

Quote:
And why can't I go into my OWN house if I have a TEF? Stupid rule.

People would exploit the **** out of it
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#6 Jan 15 2004 at 7:31 AM Rating: Default
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nothing is safe or sacred to enemys they will do any thing and everything to BRING YOU DOWN. that you must remember and also remember an i for an i.(aka find him and gangup on him and overkill the shiznit outta him)
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#7 Jan 15 2004 at 8:36 AM Rating: Default
23 posts
Yeah, I remember good old Acheron's Call Darktide days. ;)

Q
#8 Jan 15 2004 at 9:18 AM Rating: Default
31 posts
Well heres my take...(I'm hardcore)

You got what you deserve....if you are a declared overt...you willingly and openly have announced to the galaxy that you are willing and able to fight and hold your own or at the very least your going to accept the outcome of any PVP that happens...

as for the statement made by one of the other responders in this thread ....

"do I think you got griefed? Most definitely. But that is part of PvP unfortunately"....

I don't feel this guy was griefed...his faction pet would have tried to defend its master and would have needed to be dealt with..."griefing" imho is when you continue to incap someone over and over not DB'ing them or to allow them to move on in a timely manner...that's griefing and should NOT be considered acceptable at anytime..."kill your victim or let him go"...personally i think looting player bodies should still be allowed(it doesnt seem to work anymore or everyone I kill is broke)...

As far as TEF's go I think they are just about right...but they should be more easily identifiable(so if you are in a cantina looking at a dancer with a rebel or imperial standard next to their name you know they are TEF'ed)...if a Stormtrooper saw someone assisting a rebel in ANY fashion...that Stormtrooper has an obligation to the Empire to stop both the rebel and his supporter...likewise as a rebel you have an obligation to undermine the Empire at ANY oppurtunity...

I also feel if you are travelling overt...anyone on the opposing faction (overt,covert,or TEF'ed) should be given the oppurtunity to attack you without notice...it's the chance you take while being overt...this would not apply if you were only TEF'ed...and definity not apply if you are covert...(covert=safety as long as you don't assist non-coverts)

I think that there should be moving faction scanners in Declared cities...after all they would want to root out the opposition...

I think carrying, selling, or being on spice should also result in a TEF by any imperial scanner on ANY player including imperials....after all the Emperor would not tolerate his troops being high on drugs...and the rebels will do anything to get an advantage...

I'm gonna stop now because like I said "I'm Hardcore" and this could take awhile and get to far off subject...

Happy Hunting :)
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#9 Jan 15 2004 at 9:52 AM Rating: Default
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108 posts
WOW! What a bunch of pansy whiners most of you are. PVP has only one flaw that I can see, and that's the entertainers one. Other than that nothing should be changed.

My bro lost an at-st to rebels jumping him. Then again he's used his other at-sts to drop quite a few reb's so what comes around goes around. Also if you're still a little girl strength wise don't declare and stay out of the way.

I'm not the strongest guy in the game but I know with my BH skills, LLC, and some cool ranger skills I have certain advantages. Just like my bro who's a master commando and **** rebs off with his flamethrower which is by far the badest weapon in the game aside from the lightsaber. I digress...

Varrus
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#10 Jan 15 2004 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't you think that overkilling is greifing? Take down his name and when you see him again go incap and deathblow him if your able. Then say "we're even" before he clones. Then walk away knowing it's over. Just keep 1 eye open and the other over your shoulder. How you keep an eye over your shoulder I don't know. But you get the point. Killing and rekilling and rekilling someone is griefing bare and simple. Go PK red in UO and you'll see what I mean.
And I know how bad PvP is in SWG. I was speedkilled in a duel with someone. Eyeshot 5times in the time it took Me to fire once.
but oh well I took the risk by dueling as I did when I was overt. now I'm back to covert and just sigh when I get killed due to a TEF. That's the risk you take for 5 mins. Personally in sporting fashion if I incapped someone who had a TEF I wouldn't kill them. Give them a chance to get up and leave the area. If they talk smack then incap/db them.
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#11 Jan 15 2004 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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well u said it not me

**** vote (Sorry)

but what i will say is as most will now i am master bh and when i incp a rebel who is overt and is not powerful i always ask him has he be cloned if he says no i leave it.if he says yes i db him and say dont go overt if u dont want to be owned.

My real pet hate is those who heal overts then get a tef and dont expect me to kill them. I kill those fool-a-tooks first just for annoying me
#12 Jan 15 2004 at 7:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Does anyone remember when this whole sending troops to Iraq thing started? There were some kids in the army who suddenly became consciencous objectors or pacifists or said "I didn't join the army to go to war! I joined for the education benefits"
Hahaha. Sounds like the same thing here:

if you don't want to get into unexpected PvP fights, don't join a faction.
#13 Jan 15 2004 at 8:41 PM Rating: Default
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All's is fair in Love & War!

Be thankful they don't get to shoot your wife & your dog in this game..*DOH* almost forgot, they do...! :)
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#14 Jan 15 2004 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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105 posts
Well I have to vote for **** also :(

Sorry to say but you have to expect to be jumped when your overt. I go overt all the time, but I expect to be killed when I am. My advice is do what I do watch your radar like you would your side view/rear view mirrors in a car. When overt I like the 256m range so I can have a decent warning. Even though I try to watch for rec dots around me sometimes you still get jumped while your mind is else where / responding to a tell.
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#15 Jan 15 2004 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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My opinion (like anyone cares) PvP sucks terribly in this game, TK, Commando, And BH if theres one no other class can take it so its pointless...They need to change the PvP in this game...
#16 Jan 15 2004 at 10:35 PM Rating: Decent
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You may have a point, MrPiggss. I say this because at this point in the game's evolution, killing him was likely the other player's only option as a member of the opposing faction. He certainly couldn't choose "detain enemy" from his radial menu. If the other fellow was roleplaying then he absolutely acted as he should have.

However it is far more likely (imo) that the guy just felt like smoking him because he had stealth in his favor.

Looking at it from a gamesmanship perspective - I personally think that is griefing - interupting another's game experience just because you can (the guy was in a cantina trading pets - not walking the streets looking for a fight).

That is just my personal take on it and in this game (at this time) my view is undoubtedly wrong. I will admit that freely.

So I stand corrected.:(
#17 Jan 15 2004 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
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i am a veteran ex shadowbane player.
the game featured constant pvp.

there was 3 safeholds outside of newb isle
when you died your inventory was left to your killer, everything except for what you were wearing.
this was constant pvp always on at any time you could turn to the guy next to you and kill him.
there were no factions, no teams, you were left to your honor.

my suggestion is this... if you do not want to be killed do not go overt. you have a choice. yes it is very nice to have dark troopers etc... but every reward must have its risk. pvp is not fair, it is for intelligent calculating people. i am not slamming you, i am just saying that if you do not take the time to fully understand the consequences of your actions, you deserve the rude awakening. good luck in game, but remember that's all it is.
#18 Jan 16 2004 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
31 posts
Hello me again...just wanted to say...I do think the killer in this PvP did fully take advantage of a sneak attack...but we don't know the full story here...

My guild and I were out one night with the sole intent of killing overts...well naturally we found one and he was heading out of the area...because he was at the edge of the radar when we spotted him and because all characters basically move at the same speed we didn't catch him until he stopped to issue commands to his faction pets...which was to attack his target...then surprise we show up (in his opion) we sneak attacked him purposely when he was engaged with other targets...when the truth was we stalked him for almost 2000 meters on foot before we caught him...we killed him 1 time and his pets turned on us and had to be dealt with as well...

imho this isn't griefing it is simple faction based PvP...

and we can't say that the killer in this story hadn't tracked the victim to the cantina...where he finally caught up with his target...who know's the victim in this story my have just killed a friend or guild mate or even the killer himself just before getting caught in the cantina...could have been something as ugly as a spawn kill/payback...we really don't know...

imho "griefing" "is the repetative incap'ing of a player"...not db'ing and not letting them get up to leave the area...the term griefing has nothing to do with killing pets, ambushing people, or sending someone who is overt to the cloning center...my pets dieing, my bike being blown up, being ambushed without notice, and finding myself stepping out of the nearest cloning center are all in a days work when you are overt...

but again "I'm hardcore" do i think the killer took advantage in the cantina...YES....do I think the victim was griefed...NO...do I know all the events that lead to this encounter...NOT EVEN CLOSE....should I stop now...YES

anyways 1 last thought...I PvP every weekend...I die as much as I kill...to me it's a nice fast and dangerous escape from the weekday grind of holo 3....don't mean to offend...I enjoy reading everyones comments
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#19 Jan 16 2004 at 7:54 AM Rating: Decent
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if i get killed by someone one of two things have happened;

1. i was too weak
2. i was not paying attention.

there should not be a formal declaration before you kill someone in pvp.

"hey dude, you on? are you afk?"

"no man, i'm not, whats up?"

"i'm here to pk you."

"well not today, my back hurts"

wtf?


HOW NOT TO GET PK'D IN SWG

1. DONT GO OVERT
2. BE CAREFUL
3. PAY ATTENTION
4. DONT GO OVERT
#20 Jan 16 2004 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't forget run awaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

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#21 Jan 16 2004 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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My point in my second post wasn't that he was griefed but rather that he was not. In short, I am agreeing with you.
As for the rest of that post, to clarify, I was expressing dismay at the current state of PvP in this game.
I see enemy, I kill enemy, or vic versa. Enemy gets friends he kills me, or vic versa. We all go to the med center and pay the Doc (if you can find one) to heal our wounds so we can all go do it all over again. Anyone see a point in this? Can someone please tell me what is gained overall? Ok, so he proved his DX2 is sliced better than my FWG5. I got to stand over his incapped body before I DB'ed him and type /laugh.
I absolutely agree that if you are PvP you should accept what comes with that. You HAVE to be sharper, you HAVE to be on constant vigil. He was not enguard therefore he got stomped.
My true point is that PvP should have a result more satisfying than the chuckles we get after taking someone out. The game should be supplying PvP'ers with more reason to attack someone than solely that he is on the other side. There should be a payoff. An objective should be accomplished greater than making someone heal and buy more insurance. All it is - is griefing. Not in the gamers definition, just in the definition of the word.
Ask yourself this. What was actually accomplished? Can't loot him, he will be back in action as soon as he clones, and will no doubt get another Darktrooper just as he said. So all he really caused him was a little grief - the time it takes to get another DT and a little insurance cash.
Anyway, I ramble, sorry. Just clarifying my previous statement.
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---Charlie Brown
#22 Jan 18 2004 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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This is been some of the most intelligent imformative posts I seen in months.

I havent engaged in PvP yet with my main but I have picked a few fights with a fat pale human brawler as soon as he steps off the shuttle. He is tremondously stupid in appearance and HUGE and can take an suprisingly good beating for some reason.
I do this when my server goes down. its made me somehwat a celebrity on I forget what server. (Its so ironic because my trando who plays right has no friends and seems to be despised. except when I put the nov smug tag above his head, I get random trade requests then. But my fat loudmouth human that looks and acts like a total idiot, he has many fans that wont DB him. Everyone adores him. imagine the biggest heaviest dumbest looking human you can create who's dress very badly.. But the people who usually fight me are not the best PKers, or were no where near hardcore. I even bought a pistol on the bazaar one incident WHILE UNDER FIRE. I have actually incapped others, but I can't really brag because these were not seasoned PKers, I hope.)

Anyway my point was IMO if your overt I think your free game. I observe battles and I get sick of seeing spatials with to much OOC personal stuff or some spewing out ethics and rules. IMO you should just take your medicine like man and lay in the dirt in silence. PLay your part in the scene and accept that your actor has to die in that part.. You'll be the hero tommorow. From what I observe enjoying the PvP part of the game takes alot of humility. I need more of that before engaging..
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#23 Jan 18 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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150 posts
Not really part of the thread, but I have to comment on this.

Quote:
My opinion (like anyone cares) PvP sucks terribly in this game, TK, Commando, And BH if theres one no other class can take it so its pointless...They need to change the PvP in this game...


It's all about tactics dude. I have a Master Rifleman, and I have Sniped more commandoes and BHs than I can count. But I like that long range combat, and that's how I am. I don't want flamethrower boy getting close to me, so I take care of him back there. Also, I have a buddy of mine who is a Nov Pikeman, just made it a week ago. He OWNED a TK after the imp jumped him in the med center. Might have been a fluke, might not have been. But either way, you do not have to be a TK, BH, or Commando to do well in PvP..... but it helps
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Remind me again why I'm doing this?
#24 Jan 18 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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Edited, Sun Jan 18 16:34:26 2004 by Antima
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Remind me again why I'm doing this?
#25 Jan 18 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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150 posts


Edited, Sun Jan 18 16:33:25 2004 by Antima
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Remind me again why I'm doing this?
#26 Jan 18 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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150 posts


Edited, Sun Jan 18 16:33:30 2004 by Antima
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Remind me again why I'm doing this?
#27 Jan 18 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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150 posts
WHAT THE **** WAS THAT?!?!?!?!?!

The Post Monster got me! ARRGHH!!

Edited, Sun Jan 18 16:32:13 2004 by Antima
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#28 Jan 18 2004 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
I tend to agree with the answers you have been given. If you go overt there is always risk. I was coming back into an imperial outpost one time without paying attention and had a tef on me. I ran straight into three covert rebels who destroyed my bike, killed my pet, and db'd me. I was only able to get a couple shots in. I did not feel like I was taken advantage of. I had a tef and should have been more careful. I can't say I was happy about it, but it was my own fault. I learned a lot from that, and am much more careful when I have a tef on me...actually, it makes it a bit more exciting, plus someday I hope to get my revenge.


Kacifi
Mbh
#29 Jan 19 2004 at 6:51 AM Rating: Default
1 post
Dude you are so **** All you people whining about being DB'd while overt.... dont be overt. Do you really think about what your writing before you write it? Your darktrooper, he will attack me so i'd kill him too. Just cuse you were in bestine doesnt mean you were safe. I Solo Bestine alot so take that for what its worth. To simplify it all, its the game. Quit if you dont like it.
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#30 Jan 19 2004 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I saw an AFK musician (overt) get a deathblow today. He just laid there on the floor all night while the band played on. Hehe
#31 Jan 19 2004 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Still yet to declare a faction so I can't comment too heavily on the GCW PvP.
I do duel a fair amount tho'
A couple of things I would like to see or I would like to be put straight on.

I would like players to be able to Covert/Overt themselves and not require going to an appropriate faction NPC (as I understand it does now) This should still take time to have an effect, like 10mins to Off or On. So can't be abused, easily.

Players killed and sent to Clone centre are Covert for 30mins (others have suggested this and it makes sense to me) it stops anyone camping the clone centre but it will also stop the need to as anyone DB'd will not be joining any battles for a while.

Piggs said that when you heal a TEF'd player you yourself become this way. I haven't seen this happen in duels (I've not had an opponent healed in a duel but I have seen it done to others) I would like this to be introduced if it is not already the case or alternatively no outside healing allowed.

MrPiggss, you seem to be making an excuse for your opinion by saying your a Hardcore PvP player.
I don't think it's necessary as your opinion of it seems fair to me and reading the thread everyone seems to pretty much agrees with you.

Varuss
What's the Entertainer flaw?
#32 Jan 19 2004 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
My vote is for **** as well. I have had my **** kicked so many times I can't count, it's no ones fault but my own. Any time I take a shuttle Overt (which is stupid) I get killed because my lag is so bad, but again it's my own fault.

I do think they should nerf damage in general on PVP. Would be nice if the average PVP encounter lasted more than 2 seconds (the outcome probably wouldn't change, but at least it would be more entertaining).
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