Ok I'd like to start a thread mostly for newer players and maybe a little for some of the older. Post here with any information you have of the classes or game mechanics that could help players in group play. If you see I have said something wrong please correct it or add any comments you may have about it. I haven't played a lot of these classes and will just make comments on what I have heard or experienced.
-Alchemist\Wizard - These are the massive damage dealers from the casters. Run through mana like water and can pour damage on. Only drawback I see from them is they tend to be frail and if they don't manage their agro tend to end up back at the Spiritmasters. And save the AoE stuff for farming.
-Bards - Bards are a light DD, probably the weakest of the 4 melee DDs, and can be a major mana battery along with some decent buffs, like ac, str/dex, and a minor HoT. The major restriction on them is that to DD they have to be in melee range and all the buffs are centered on the Bard and have an AoE. Second is that most of the buffs last no more than 3 minutes or so, so unless you see a major gap in the timing of the buff there is no need to spam the Bard about them.
-Cleric - My personal favorite healer to have around. Massive heals and a great AC\HP buff. Unless you know a lot of good tanks then dropping some of that Charisma for some Stam/Agi armors might be a better route and from a little experiment I tried with a Cleric it seems like 3 points of Cha results in a 1 point increase in heals. So dropping 30-60 points off of Cha shouldn't have a huge impact on your heals and could boost other stats to help keep you alive.
-Druid\Shaman - Decent healers with some nice buffs but not what I would choose to have when fighting mobs that are 5+ levels above the team average. If instead of pulling to the group you are in the middle of the camp taking mobs as they spawn then this is the healer to have as they can add some damage to the group while providing all the healing you will need.
-Enchanter\Magician - These guys add some solid damage, usually a decent pet, and both can help with adds with root abilities. Enchanters provide mana while Magicians have the better pet and I think better nuke spells.
-Monk\Rogue - The top DDs for melees. Both deal major damage and chew up mana. And Rogues steal their ***** off, don't know how much they make but I'm sure it's more than I do. My selection for DDs are these guys, Bards and Rangers, unless you camp is a pretty safe one these guys won't crumble like casters tend to do when mob after mobs comes wandering by.
-Necromancer - The top pet class and the most versitile casters. Healing, nuking, life taps, rezzing at the higher levels, and probably some other stuff I don't know about. Haven't grouped with many so not sure all they can do.
-Paladin\Shadowknight\Warrior - Tanks... next time I hear a tank brag about how much Strength he has and how much damage he can do I will not be in that group. If you main concern is specials and how much damage you do the next time you join a group tell them that you are a DD and not a tank, but if you are one that chain taunts, does minimum damage, and near maxes Stamina and Agility, then you can advertise that you are a tank. If you can DD while being able to take\hold agro from multiple mobs and not take a beat down then you are truly something we need. If you read the forum on the 'Offical' EQOA site there is a topic on how PPO is overrun with DD tanks and not very many real ones. If you can solo one of whatever we happen to be fighting that's all well and good but when we have more than one and the healer has to die to keep your paper **** alive then please do us a favor and stay solo. If I have offended any of you then good. You have offended all of us with untold amounts of debt.
- Ranger - The number 3 DD from the melees and from what I have seen don't add anything more than damage. This is not an insult, maybe I don't know anything.
I have see most of these classes played to their maximum potential, and I have seen them be failures. To all the good groups I've had, thanks a lot, and to any that failed for whatever reason, maybe we could try again and have a better time. I hope this has helped someone somewhere. If not oh well =) Maybe I will post some more when I get bored again.
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Anonymous
I resent that bit about Druids and Shamans! I have one of each healer class and imo clerics are the most annoying healer to play because they are So jipped, even when it comes to cm's. sure they have a nice HP/AC buff and only reason their heals are so nice is because their power pool mains include charisma, unlike the other healer classes. MY personal preferance Is Druid, Then shammy, and I absolutely hate the cleric class, Cl's rezzes are so much better than the other's just because they DIE a lot, because it's usually PAPER tanks that prefer clerics over other healers. Druids can Actually Deal damage to the mobs, unlike clerics (sure clerics can deal damage to undead, but if your druid is damage path, still blows away cleric's damage on anything, not Just undead) and imo the faster the mob dies the less the tank has to rep which = Longer grindage! Clerics only Have three shareable buffs if you will call them that, The ac/hp buff, the poison disease resist line and those rezzes of theirs. Druids have a Lot of buffs including damage shields, Regen (which helps control aggro on the rest of the grp if used properly.) sow, invis, Fire and Cold resists, a nice AC/hp buff, and can even buy thru CM's a BETTER REZ (at 46 can even give the group wolf form which is a Str/agi buff). Shammy's have nice buffs too, like the Str agi dex sta and hp buffs, sow, invis, and have a pet that can deal damage out for them while they nuke; they have Sta as a main so can take a hit rather well, and in some cases (paper alert) Have more HP's than the tank!
The simple key to each is to have massive Charisma, and then work from their mains on, and just because a quest reward thinks it's ok for you to lower your ac, doesn't mean you should, Ac helps you take those hits better. Str is barely needed for healer class as they Only get one swing ANYway.
And ALL of those healer classes can take on plenty a 5+ mob with groups, and can be in any pulling fashion grp as well.
There you have it, the True rundown on the healer classes.
The simple key to each is to have massive Charisma, and then work from their mains on, and just because a quest reward thinks it's ok for you to lower your ac, doesn't mean you should, Ac helps you take those hits better. Str is barely needed for healer class as they Only get one swing ANYway.
And ALL of those healer classes can take on plenty a 5+ mob with groups, and can be in any pulling fashion grp as well.
There you have it, the True rundown on the healer classes.
Anonymous
Forgot one thing... Shammy's also have a spell that Debuff's mobs.
Hmmm, I find it very funny that the majority of warriors focus on boosting strength and sometimes dexterity. In most groups that I am in, I'm commented on how well I hold aggro. Lol, even when other ppl in the group die and I apologize for not holding aggro, they never say to taunt, or to get more agility and stamina, they say np, my fault etc. I don't think of myself as an almighty tank for sure, but I get tells constantly saying "are you lfg?" The problem is whenever i AM lfg, no1 ever sends one :( I know that my base stamina and agilityare low, but evidenntly I have more than most tanks or better motor skills... I guess some don't learn by trial and error; just error - error. But yes, if you are starting a tank, get a moderate strength base for power pool, but focus on stamina and agility.
I like shamans the best personally. If I had my choice, clerics would be bottom of the totem pole. The shammies buffs are awesome; my AC is 1471 or so unbuffed and Im lvl 36. I love the tribal line of buffs for shamans. Druid's are good too; but maybe I just have had better experience with druids and shamans.
The DD I like most in my group is a monk. They deal AWESOME damage and have quick recovery rates. If paired with a battery, then all hell breaks loose. Rogues lose a lot of mana with the pickpocket line, but they do good damage. Rangers are decent at lower levels, but get to be as good as rogues and monks in later levels. Bards kinda got nerfed...but are still good batteries.
Caster-wise, wizzies are awesome, but only when paired with an enchanter or bard, since their nukes drain the power pool. Magicians are good since they can send their pet in while drinking and of course, enchanters are awesome for one reason: MANA REGEN!!! And with a pet to back them up, they are definitely in high demand.
I like shamans the best personally. If I had my choice, clerics would be bottom of the totem pole. The shammies buffs are awesome; my AC is 1471 or so unbuffed and Im lvl 36. I love the tribal line of buffs for shamans. Druid's are good too; but maybe I just have had better experience with druids and shamans.
The DD I like most in my group is a monk. They deal AWESOME damage and have quick recovery rates. If paired with a battery, then all hell breaks loose. Rogues lose a lot of mana with the pickpocket line, but they do good damage. Rangers are decent at lower levels, but get to be as good as rogues and monks in later levels. Bards kinda got nerfed...but are still good batteries.
Caster-wise, wizzies are awesome, but only when paired with an enchanter or bard, since their nukes drain the power pool. Magicians are good since they can send their pet in while drinking and of course, enchanters are awesome for one reason: MANA REGEN!!! And with a pet to back them up, they are definitely in high demand.
Back at work and bored again. Lemme see what else I can stir up.
-Damn Shammy and Druids and Paper Tanks - The number one reason I perfer to have a Cleric is the fact that PPO is the home and breeding ground of the disease "immaDDpapertank". Now while these guys are healty enough to tank most single pulls and maybe on occasion a double. A third will have the healer streatched to keep up with the fastly decreasing health bar while the DDs with almost the same amount of AC throw all their specials and drain all their mana in a charity campaign of "Save the Tanks". If we all get to hide behind a massive meat-wall\agro machine then I'm all for any healer we can muster, but if we have to hide behind a wet paper napkin then I want the best heals for my money. Of course I will always take what I can get.
-Agro and Control - I really wish some of these casters/healers didn't feel the need to go poke mobs for the massive minimum damage that we all know you people are doing. I cannot give you specific numbers on how agro works or is calculated I can give you a little story that may help show how it works. I will use numbers in the story to help show how each skill\spell effects which person the mob will attack.
My Agro Story
By The Tard Bard
One day a group of adventurers A the warrior, B the cleric, C the rogue, and D the wizard were walking along when the meet mob X and the battle is joined. A is quick thinking and uses taunt which does no damage but gives him agro like he did (100) points. Then a quick kick(50) and a slash(80) and he now holds (230) points of agro. B panics and throws a heal(280) on A but since he is well behind the result is only (180) agro for him and A keeps the agro. C slips behind mob X while it chews on A and does a backstab(150), pickpocket(80) and a slash(40). Now he has (270) agro and mob X turns to chew on C. D who was walking next to A throws his big nuke(300) and since he was standing so close he get credit for the full value and gets chewed on by mob X. By this time B had closed the gap and whacks(20) mob X and seeing his group have all been nibbled casts a group heal(150 x 4) and it builds agro even though he didn't receive anything from it. Now he's at (800) agro and mob X really wants to snack on him. Mob Z shows up just as group heal hits again and now B has (600) agro with mob Z before anyone even knows it's there.
I know it's a stupid story and the numbers are nowhere near right but hopefully that sheds a little light on how it works. Another note is that damage you do to a single mob and taunts are only 'seen' by that one mob where heals are seen by any mobs in agro range. This is the biggest way that paper tanks get the healer and/or other groupies killed, as the healer must heal early before the tank can establish a good amount of agro.
-Rogues - Should they share the PP money or not? If it were me I would cut the tank 20% and other groupies 10%. But it would be based off of performance too.
-Trains - If you get trained is it ok to return the favor? I'm a known magnet for griefers and trainers. I'm not without guilt in this area but I have never done it to someone who didn't provoke me in some manner.
-Number in Group - If Sony does not bump the group number from 4 to the standard 6 in the next installment I will be leaving this game.
Thank you for tuning in.
This grind was powered by Bard.
Edited, Tue Jan 6 07:27:25 2004 by Suminarian
-Damn Shammy and Druids and Paper Tanks - The number one reason I perfer to have a Cleric is the fact that PPO is the home and breeding ground of the disease "immaDDpapertank". Now while these guys are healty enough to tank most single pulls and maybe on occasion a double. A third will have the healer streatched to keep up with the fastly decreasing health bar while the DDs with almost the same amount of AC throw all their specials and drain all their mana in a charity campaign of "Save the Tanks". If we all get to hide behind a massive meat-wall\agro machine then I'm all for any healer we can muster, but if we have to hide behind a wet paper napkin then I want the best heals for my money. Of course I will always take what I can get.
-Agro and Control - I really wish some of these casters/healers didn't feel the need to go poke mobs for the massive minimum damage that we all know you people are doing. I cannot give you specific numbers on how agro works or is calculated I can give you a little story that may help show how it works. I will use numbers in the story to help show how each skill\spell effects which person the mob will attack.
My Agro Story
By The Tard Bard
One day a group of adventurers A the warrior, B the cleric, C the rogue, and D the wizard were walking along when the meet mob X and the battle is joined. A is quick thinking and uses taunt which does no damage but gives him agro like he did (100) points. Then a quick kick(50) and a slash(80) and he now holds (230) points of agro. B panics and throws a heal(280) on A but since he is well behind the result is only (180) agro for him and A keeps the agro. C slips behind mob X while it chews on A and does a backstab(150), pickpocket(80) and a slash(40). Now he has (270) agro and mob X turns to chew on C. D who was walking next to A throws his big nuke(300) and since he was standing so close he get credit for the full value and gets chewed on by mob X. By this time B had closed the gap and whacks(20) mob X and seeing his group have all been nibbled casts a group heal(150 x 4) and it builds agro even though he didn't receive anything from it. Now he's at (800) agro and mob X really wants to snack on him. Mob Z shows up just as group heal hits again and now B has (600) agro with mob Z before anyone even knows it's there.
I know it's a stupid story and the numbers are nowhere near right but hopefully that sheds a little light on how it works. Another note is that damage you do to a single mob and taunts are only 'seen' by that one mob where heals are seen by any mobs in agro range. This is the biggest way that paper tanks get the healer and/or other groupies killed, as the healer must heal early before the tank can establish a good amount of agro.
-Rogues - Should they share the PP money or not? If it were me I would cut the tank 20% and other groupies 10%. But it would be based off of performance too.
-Trains - If you get trained is it ok to return the favor? I'm a known magnet for griefers and trainers. I'm not without guilt in this area but I have never done it to someone who didn't provoke me in some manner.
-Number in Group - If Sony does not bump the group number from 4 to the standard 6 in the next installment I will be leaving this game.
Thank you for tuning in.
This grind was powered by Bard.
Edited, Tue Jan 6 07:27:25 2004 by Suminarian
"Paper tank"...I daresay I don't consider myself that... Anyhow, I've got four taunts out on my first spell bar and dash (for really eminent deaths) Those four are provoking shout (lv 24 AoE [CM] provoke), baiting shout (lv 34 AoE [CM] bait), pillar of strength and might (20 and 30 path taunts). Now, I can hold aggro very well with those four taunts, so your whole scenario shouldn't result in a loss of aggro, but if so, provoke and bait should have recovered by now. My relatively high AC allows me to easily tank 2 minotaurs, possibly 3. It's when I run into two/three caster/healers that I start to panic and dash my *** outta there lol. So, I guess CLW is a bit better in the tank department...
The best healer I ever had was at the Urglunt's ??? (the frontiers one) and we were fighting lvl 40 clops guards. This was a drd (haha) that kept me alive the whole time with her level 12 heal. If she really wanted to, she said her lv1 heal could suffice.
To answer your questions, these are my opinions:
Rogues have the ability PP, and it is for them, not the group. I think that they rightly keep their money.
Training can be a problem, no doubt, but training back should be a last resort; only do it if it was done twice or more on purpose.
Changing the number of ppl in the group will be nothing short of a hassle. If it was only installed in the new expansion, what about the ppl without it? I mean, it'd be hard as hell to find six good players around your level all with the expansion pack. I'd like it too, but I don't think it will happen in the next one.
If you read this far, thanks. I'm just finding an excuse to not do homework =P
The best healer I ever had was at the Urglunt's ??? (the frontiers one) and we were fighting lvl 40 clops guards. This was a drd (haha) that kept me alive the whole time with her level 12 heal. If she really wanted to, she said her lv1 heal could suffice.
To answer your questions, these are my opinions:
Rogues have the ability PP, and it is for them, not the group. I think that they rightly keep their money.
Training can be a problem, no doubt, but training back should be a last resort; only do it if it was done twice or more on purpose.
Changing the number of ppl in the group will be nothing short of a hassle. If it was only installed in the new expansion, what about the ppl without it? I mean, it'd be hard as hell to find six good players around your level all with the expansion pack. I'd like it too, but I don't think it will happen in the next one.
If you read this far, thanks. I'm just finding an excuse to not do homework =P
hi , first, ...keep AoE for farming...A wiz or alch will do an AoE spell in a spot who they all green(a decent spot) will prolly die...plus!on my alch,when we have more than 2 mobs on us , they like my AoE spells.i know AoE can get the grp kill at some spot but not at all...and about druid/shammy , on my druid , i heal O.K(200 at 23 =)) and with debuff path , i debuff and put a DoT on the mobs i think its good.
Oh, no, it's simply a modified taunt that has a very small AoE for keeping multiple mobs' aggro; it was very difficult to constantly target a new thing while in a battle with two or more, lol. Just wanted to clarify
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