His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Rusttle, it's a PvP zone, what do you think?
Actually, you do not stay flagged after the battle - on a PvE server at least. Rusttle actually has good advice this time.
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Actually, you do not stay flagged after the battle - on a PvE server at least. Rusttle actually has good advice this time.
Well, add that to the massive design fail list of Tol Barad.
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Well, add that to the massive design fail list of Tol Barad.
While I found it nice to be able to go out there and farm or even finish dailies I didn't get done earlier, it does take away from the zone. Running through the zone and seeing someone from the horde struggling with Problim I should be able to help the big guy finish them off. It is a PvP zone after all.
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Rusttle, it's a PvP zone, what do you think?
I KNOW that PvP turns off when the battle's over - what do you think happens?
As a plus point though the Allies on my server finally figured out how to win swap, as a down side only a few of them bother joining the battle meaning that even if you catch the timer the second you can join the queue odds are still heavily against you getting in.
Well, this has worked out about as good as TB possibly could. At first, nobody bothered with TB on my server. And since I can't get into more than 1-2 battlegrounds an hour either, there were no fights, and no honor. Then they "fixed" TB with the 1800 honor thing, and no fight for lots of honor was definitely better than no fight for no honor. At least I could get gear I could use to... not fight.
Ah, but NOW. Now there is no honor, but that hasn't been widely realized yet. So they come in, still expect us to roll over, and when people actually try to defend, their little gnome bodies just quiver wildly with rage, they call all their friends to come defend their honor against the filthy betraying Horde, and there's a HUGE ENORMOUS BRAWL.
A good fight for lots of honor would be better. But barring that, a rage-quivering gnome brawl for a little honor is the best combination.
Of course, even people who don't read WoW news (I know right? What are these people doing?) will catch on within the next day, and then TB will go back to sucking.
Ah, but NOW. Now there is no honor, but that hasn't been widely realized yet. So they come in, still expect us to roll over, and when people actually try to defend, their little gnome bodies just quiver wildly with rage, they call all their friends to come defend their honor against the filthy betraying Horde, and there's a HUGE ENORMOUS BRAWL.
A good fight for lots of honor would be better. But barring that, a rage-quivering gnome brawl for a little honor is the best combination.
Of course, even people who don't read WoW news (I know right? What are these people doing?) will catch on within the next day, and then TB will go back to sucking.
They nerfed it back to 180 honor for offense win?
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
They nerfed it back to 180 honor for offense win?
That is defense win.
Offense should be 360.
Yeah, 180 for defensive victory, 360 for offensive. Which puts us essentially back where we started; upping the honor for offense was a stupid solution anyway, and 360 isn't going to do squat to solve the problem. It has nothing to do with whether the offense wants to win, so motivating them isn't the answer so much as fixing your awful f'd up design.
Edit: I think it would be a lot more fun if they made it so once the offense caps a base, it's theirs for the duration and can't be won back. And do something else with the towers, they're dumb.
Edited, Jan 4th 2011 4:47pm by teacake
Edit: I think it would be a lot more fun if they made it so once the offense caps a base, it's theirs for the duration and can't be won back. And do something else with the towers, they're dumb.
Edited, Jan 4th 2011 4:47pm by teacake
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Ah, but NOW. Now there is no honor, but that hasn't been widely realized yet. So they come in, still expect us to roll over, and when people actually try to defend, their little gnome bodies just quiver wildly with rage, they call all their friends to come defend their honor against the filthy betraying Horde, and there's a HUGE ENORMOUS BRAWL.
Managed to get into a few (surprise, defense ones) and while a few folks were hissy fitting that we were "cheating" by actually defending, the overwhelming majority was angry because the Allies have apparently been "cheating" as well by fighting tooth and nail on D after being given a win trade previously.
I don't know if they fixed something to make it easier for O to win or if it was simply a case of enough people on D still trying to win trade but I've noticed that even with something resembling active D the O has still been winning.
I'm there more for gear the honor so personally I'd rather they put the tokens back for win and add some for loss, in fact, to ensure max attendance, give both sides the same tokens too.
Honestly, if they just made it a EotS/BfG/AB-style resource accumulation game, problem solved.
#37REDACTED,
Posted: Jan 06 2011 at 2:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Alliance largely outnumbers Horde on my server.
And I'm calling ******** on that claim. Gear will have very limited effect in a battle on the scale of Tol Barad unless the differences in gear are dramatic, which they aren't.
Azaza wrote:
Alliance largely outnumbers Horde on my server.
As such, we can't attack and win Tol Barad. And on the infrequent chance we have, we don't hold it.
While TB's design is very annoying, and often feeling ridiculous, I'm chalking it up to Horde being better geared (with lower population BG queues and smaller pool of folks getting in back 2 back TB's), that Alliance winning in a 1:1 battle is quite small.
Edited, Jan 6th 2011 3:36pm by Azaza
As such, we can't attack and win Tol Barad. And on the infrequent chance we have, we don't hold it.
While TB's design is very annoying, and often feeling ridiculous, I'm chalking it up to Horde being better geared (with lower population BG queues and smaller pool of folks getting in back 2 back TB's), that Alliance winning in a 1:1 battle is quite small.
Edited, Jan 6th 2011 3:36pm by Azaza
I might have to call bullsh*t too. Unless I'm reading something very wrong, this post makes little sense. You say that Alliance largely outnumbers the Horde so you (Horde, I guess?) rarely win. Yet, in the very next paragraph you say that the Horde wins all the time because they're overgeared?
Also, doesn't the Tol Barad queueing system attempt to create a 1:1 ratio so no faction can outnumber the other one?
I'm alliance, and horde is dominating Tol Barad atm.
With a larger alliance server population, watered down by all kinds (kids, scrubs, nubs, whatnot) Horde are kickin our butt royally.
Before the widespread cross-realm queues happened for BG's, I'd chalk up such Horde dominance to their faster queues, faster honor gain, and faster/better gearing.
Frankly, I'm more or less sticking to the same basic argument for Tol Barad now. Whether it's accurate or not, honor gain/gearing thru region wide BG queues, it may seem to shoot holes in that theory, but I have to cling to some argument for the utter alliance fail to defend, much less attack, in Tol Barad atm.
Other than resorting to the ultimate base argument that alliance just sucks in general for pvp (which is a stupid argument anyway)...
With a larger alliance server population, watered down by all kinds (kids, scrubs, nubs, whatnot) Horde are kickin our butt royally.
Before the widespread cross-realm queues happened for BG's, I'd chalk up such Horde dominance to their faster queues, faster honor gain, and faster/better gearing.
Frankly, I'm more or less sticking to the same basic argument for Tol Barad now. Whether it's accurate or not, honor gain/gearing thru region wide BG queues, it may seem to shoot holes in that theory, but I have to cling to some argument for the utter alliance fail to defend, much less attack, in Tol Barad atm.
Other than resorting to the ultimate base argument that alliance just sucks in general for pvp (which is a stupid argument anyway)...
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
And I'm calling bullsh*t on that claim. Gear will have very limited effect in a battle on the scale of Tol Barad unless the differences in gear are dramatic, which they aren't.
That's simply not the case. Tol Barad's design removes strategy from the equation - it is simply a case of throwing meat into the grinder.
Now, whether this gear disparity actually exists is another question.
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Alliance largely outnumbers Horde on my server.
As such, we can't attack and win Tol Barad. And on the infrequent chance we have, we don't hold it.
As such, we can't attack and win Tol Barad. And on the infrequent chance we have, we don't hold it.
Numbers shouldn't matter as TB is supposed to be an even match up - if it was otherwise then my server would be having the same problem (we were one of those servers where playing Horde in WG was like being the humans in the Battle at Whiskey post in Starship Troopers) but we aren't, in fact, we've been dominating TB rather nicely.
So if you guys are that badly outnumbered then if anything, TB should be a cake run for you as you've gone from fighting 10-1 odds to even odds.
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That's simply not the case. Tol Barad's design removes strategy from the equation - it is simply a case of throwing meat into the grinder.
Now, whether this gear disparity actually exists is another question.
Now, whether this gear disparity actually exists is another question.
Higher GS means more health/armor, less damage taken, higher DPS/HPS and larger mana pools - while skill can negate those advantages in individual combat there's very little chance for that in TB meaning that the side with 1.2 million health and 3k average dps has an edge over the side with 800k total health and 2.3k average dps, especially in even odds.
rusttle wrote:
Quote:
That's simply not the case. Tol Barad's design removes strategy from the equation - it is simply a case of throwing meat into the grinder.
Now, whether this gear disparity actually exists is another question.
Now, whether this gear disparity actually exists is another question.
Higher GS means more health/armor, less damage taken, higher DPS/HPS and larger mana pools - while skill can negate those advantages in individual combat there's very little chance for that in TB meaning that the side with 1.2 million health and 3k average dps has an edge over the side with 800k total health and 2.3k average dps, especially in even odds.
Yeah, if everyone sat still and beat eachother with optimal DPS rotations, I'd agree, but that's not the case. At any one time, you have an uneven number of people traveling, making poor decisions as to where they travel to (or good ones), and you also have an uneven number of healers on either team in a vast majority of the battles.
Those things make gear pretty much inconsequential.
Not surprising that you didn't think of that, though.
Here is what he is trying to say. I think.
Horde are outnumbered so they win.
100 alliance want to do TB but only an amount = to the horde can get in. So a larger % of horde get to keep entering the battle each time while the alliance have a more random assortment. Allowing the gear gap between the horde and alliance on his server to continue to widen as the horde have an easier time of acquiring it.
If thats not the point he was after then I'm as confused as everyone else.
Edited, Jan 16th 2011 1:33pm by xinaskin
Horde are outnumbered so they win.
100 alliance want to do TB but only an amount = to the horde can get in. So a larger % of horde get to keep entering the battle each time while the alliance have a more random assortment. Allowing the gear gap between the horde and alliance on his server to continue to widen as the horde have an easier time of acquiring it.
If thats not the point he was after then I'm as confused as everyone else.
Edited, Jan 16th 2011 1:33pm by xinaskin
xinaskin wrote:
Here is what he is trying to say. I think.
Horde are outnumbered so they win.
100 alliance want to do TB but only an amount = to the horde can get in. So a larger % of horde get to keep entering the battle each time while the alliance have a more random assortment. Allowing the gear gap between the horde and alliance on his server to continue to widen as the horde have an easier time of acquiring it.
If thats not the point he was after then I'm as confused as everyone else.
Horde are outnumbered so they win.
100 alliance want to do TB but only an amount = to the horde can get in. So a larger % of horde get to keep entering the battle each time while the alliance have a more random assortment. Allowing the gear gap between the horde and alliance on his server to continue to widen as the horde have an easier time of acquiring it.
If thats not the point he was after then I'm as confused as everyone else.
That's not a logical point, though; if TB was the only source of honor, it might be a good point, but it's in fact only one small source of honor.
Since you can get honor outside of TB and Alliance should be near-instant queue on almost every battlegroup, it's not logical to say that a gear gap exists, or that it exists for any reason other than Alliance being lazy.
#46REDACTED,
Posted: Jan 22 2011 at 1:36 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Which makes individual GS even more important - when you have questionable back up and irrational tactical behavior then what it ultimately comes down to is your individual ability to survive the situation and/or make the other guy not survive it.
And if such a giant gear gap was actually plausible, you'd have a point. As it stands the gear gap is more like one team having a few more bullets than the other, not some greens vs superleetepics situation.
rusttle wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, if everyone sat still and beat eachother with optimal DPS rotations, I'd agree, but that's not the case. At any one time, you have an uneven number of people traveling, making poor decisions as to where they travel to (or good ones), and you also have an uneven number of healers on either team in a vast majority of the battles.
Which makes individual GS even more important - when you have questionable back up and irrational tactical behavior then what it ultimately comes down to is your individual ability to survive the situation and/or make the other guy not survive it.
Grab two dozen people off the street, give half of them leather jackets and muzzle loaders and give the other half of them Kevlar body armor and AR15s then put them into random teams with the inability to loot gear from the fallen - the team with the most AR15 armed individuals has the better chance of winning due to the superior offensive capabilities and survivability granted by their weapons and armor.
Quite surprising you wouldn't know/understand such a basic principle?
Oh my God, you are the stupidest person on Allakhazam, and it's not even close.
Congratulations.
I'm sorry Theo but no.
While rusttle might be stupid ZAM also has varus and Almalieque and both of those have achieved levels of stupid that were thought to be impossible.
While rusttle might be stupid ZAM also has varus and Almalieque and both of those have achieved levels of stupid that were thought to be impossible.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I'm sorry Theo but no.
While rusttle might be stupid ZAM also has varus and Almalieque and both of those have achieved levels of stupid that were thought to be impossible.
While rusttle might be stupid ZAM also has varus and Almalieque and both of those have achieved levels of stupid that were thought to be impossible.
Fine, Rusttle is the dumbest WoW-ZAM poster.
Happy now?
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And if such a giant gear gap was actually plausible, you'd have a point. As it stands the gear gap is more like one team having a few more bullets than the other, not some greens vs superleetepics situation.
We're not talking greens vs purples, we're talking resilience - one side rolling with 200 res and the other 1200 res - so maybe the muzzle loaders/AR15s part was a poor analogy but the leather vs Kevlar stands.
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Oh my God, you are the stupidest person on Allakhazam, and it's not even close.
You know kid, if you didn't have your head head so far up your backside with your petty little grudge you might have recalled the little fact I noted above instead of coming off like a twit and a git that doesn't understand such a basic mechanic.
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