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Tol BaradFollow

#1 Dec 25 2010 at 4:07 AM Rating: Decent
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As a refreshing change of pace the Horde is apparently totally and utterly owning TB on my server - hoping this is the exception and not the norm so that Blizz doesn't nerf it.

Not sure if this is due to the rather difficult win conditions of the place combined with the Horde getting lucky and starting on D or that it's simply designed in a way that works well with the general mindset of Horde players?

Another possibility is that the past year or so of WG dominance has destroyed my server's Ally PvP skills. After WG was changed last year the balance went obscenely into the Alliance's favor resulting in them rolling the Horde through shear numbers every battle - if we didn't have T10 then it was only because it was an off hour with a normally low population.

This resulted in two things - first, the Allies had no ability to work on personal PvP skills due to the rarity of a one on one fight - they got to the point where they'd run if they didn't have at least three to one odds in a fight (they wouldn't even show their faces on the castle walls till they cleared T3). The result was that after the equalization fix kicked in the battles got a lot more balanced, although the second point still gave the Allies a significant edge.

Said second point is that the easy honor meant that the Ally players inevitably outgeared the Horde, thus further degrading their skills as they lacked the ability and the need to progress beyond a certain point as their gear (combined with shear numbers) made up the difference.

So now they're in TB and they don't have superior numbers nor superior PvP gear and it really shows - unless most of their team hits the same point they can't take it - the Horde players are too used to fighting heavy odds and without the obscene amounts of resilience and high end weapons the Alliance used to have they're getting slaughtered in toe to toe fights.

For those who haven't tried it yet TB is basically a cross between, well, nothing really.

You've got a fort in the center of the field - that's where D rezzes from (haven't been on O yet so no clue where we come from).

There are three objective areas and three towers evenly staggered around the field in a circle, basically turning the BG into a giant clock. The towers need to be destroyed by O - each one destroyed adds time to the clock (5m I think with a 15m starting time, meaning a max BG length of 30m). To win, O needs to hold all three of the objective points at the same time - you capture them in the same way you capture workshops in WG.

There are tanks scattered around the field with ton of health and they apparently can't be attacked unless someone's in them, thus cutting down on D simply trashing all of the vehicles before O can even reach them. The tanks are only for O and apparently have little/nothing in the way of anti-infantry capabilities as I've never seen anyone employ them against the players.

D wins by keeping O from capping all three objective points at once - basically they're just trying to run down the clock.

I haven't seen Horde simply all pile into on objective point and hold it via turtle yet so I'm guessing there's some sort of mechanic that makes that unfeasible, then again, Horde doesn't tend to turtle on my server/BG so maybe that's the reason - Ally tend to travel in packs and would rather simply get a lead and then turtle down the clock (not judging them, simply stating preferred tactics - whether that's good or bad is your own personal call) while Horde players just can't seem to keep still, wanting the max cap win and splitting up evenly over all of the objectives.

Whichever side wins gets some daily quest which appear in the castle mid-field - there's two quest givers and yesterday I got a total of six quests but today just three - no clue why?

Rewards are honor and TB tokens (three for a win and I'm guessing one for a loss) which can be used at the quartermaster like the old WG tokens. The gear is all pretty solid plus there's a seagull NC pet, a ghostwolf land mount and one of the compass point dragons so even if you aren't a PvP fan this place is worth doing at least for the dailies (all of which give tokens).

There's no such thing as "fighting in mid field" as there really isn't one - all of the combat takes place at the three objective points which is nice as it means the HK farmer types will actually be contributing towards objectives.

Also haven't noticed any issues with people AFKing - no clue if there's a mechanic to prevent it or if it's simply a case of the serious players crowding out the AFK crowd in the queues, thus making them too rare to be noticed for now.

Right now the battles are still pretty small due to the equalizer - I don't know if the problem is there not being enough Allies interested in doing TB to fill the queue or if they're already so discouraged that they aren't winning that they aren't queuing. I know there isn't an issue with enough of them getting in because if you don't queue at the 10-15m wait mark Horde side then you aren't getting in.

So what's it like?

As D, nothing really special - you cycle around from one objective point to the other trying to take them back from O so they can't have all three at once - haven't seen O hold more then one objective point yet though. All said, neither exciting nor boring - really just straight fighting - haven't done O yet so can't comment on that.

Right now I've only had a chance to do it with my main (my only 85 toon) a feral druid. He's got a 322 gear rating and 119k health in bear form and is proving to be quite the terror, especially against Ally zerges when he can just rush a group and pop berserk, SI and barkskin then simply start chain mangling them. Mangle tends to crit a lot resulting in lots of peeps who don't seem to realize that bears can DPS now taking 15k hits they weren't expecting to take - if someone doesn't CC me or, God forbid, I've got a friendly healer paying attention to me and everyone ignoring the healer then things turn ugly real fast for anyone on the wrong side of my claws.

The achievement list is kinda weak and I'm not sure if the 100 victory achievement is working as I'm not showing any listed despite having three wins so far. The 10m win achievement is also apparently broken as it gives the impression that you can only get it while on O, plus, I got it when I ended up getting in late in a battle, meaning that while it was <10m from the time I started fighting till we won, it wasn't a 10m win for the Horde.

All said, this is gear/toy farming for my main (and other toons when they can start doing it) right now. HK farmers will love this place, AOE classes are lethal and I rather suspect that a coordinated guild premade could easily overcome the problem with how it difficult it is to win on O.
#2 Dec 25 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's pretty simple: the mechanics of Tol Barad are staggeringly awful and i'm astounded they made it live. Attacking sucessfully is virtually impossible, especially with small numbers on either side. Tol Barad changes hands in the dead of night on my server.

Edited, Dec 25th 2010 6:27pm by ArtemisEnteri
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#3 Dec 25 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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ArtemisEnteri wrote:
It's pretty simple: the mechanics of Tol Barad are staggeringly awful and i'm astounded they made it live. Attacking sucessfully is virtually impossible, especially with small numbers on either side. Tol Barad changes hands in the dead of night on my server.

Edited, Dec 25th 2010 6:27pm by ArtemisEnteri



Read an article on WoW Insider exactly about this issue.

Link: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/12/17/the-problems-with-tol-barad-and-how-to-fix-them/
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#4 Dec 25 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
I don't even know how to play, capture the bases or something? I've only played once and was on defense and we just ran around retaking bases from allies so I don't really know how we won except for the fact the time ran out.
#5 Dec 25 2010 at 7:41 PM Rating: Good
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Tol Barad uses the 1 : 1 matching queue system. So if your server has very few alliance and only 10 queue up, only 10 horde will get in as well (unless none of a given faction queue at all, then as many of the opposite faction can enter). The defending team spawn in the middle (let's say the alliance). Attackers spawn at the iron bridge conecting the battleground to the peninsula questing area.

The three control points start under the defending side's control and already we have a problem. It will take even the full raid of 10 horde players a LONG time to fully capture even one of these. Remember, the clock is ticking. Destroying towers is done using the siege engines. You need to have obtained one HK to pilot them, after that you just drive them to a tower, deploy them and they will attack automatically while you defend them, or do something else. Destroying each of the 3 towers gives +5 minutes to the clock, or more time for the attacking side to succeed; nothing else changes.

The control points are captured by having members of your faction near them, each member contributes a little to the bar moving toward your side and ultimately control. Enemy players in the area have the opposite effect. Another problem. If the defending sidfe all stand at one point, throughout the long battle the bar wont move at all. Even if the attacking forces massacre the enemy and all survive (this is unlikely of course) the bar will move a few millimetres in their favour before the defenders spawn from the central graveyard and stop the bar moving again (or simply go and recapture a different point. Like that linked article says, dying while defending is meaningless because you spawn close to every important control point). Capturing a point is agonizingly slow. So to have all 3 at the same time without losing one to a lone enemy player is pretty much never going to happen.

Edited, Dec 25th 2010 8:42pm by ArtemisEnteri

Edited, Dec 25th 2010 8:43pm by ArtemisEnteri
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#6 Dec 25 2010 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Looks like they either reset the server and Ally won the coin toss, we had a really bad group on D or a premade on O because Allies now have it.

Ended up walking into the middle of the fight - was quite disconcerting spawning on the bridge - thought the battle had ended on me at first. Apparently there is no disadvantage to turtling - just about every Ally on the board was parked at one flag with a few lone wolf types running around ninjaing the others. Under normal circumstances that wouldn't have been a problem but this Horde crew was positively disfunctional - I don't think a single one of them was over 16. O_o
#7 Dec 25 2010 at 10:28 PM Rating: Default
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ArtemisEnteri wrote:
It's pretty simple: the mechanics of Tol Barad are staggeringly awful and i'm astounded they made it live. Attacking sucessfully is virtually impossible, especially with small numbers on either side. Tol Barad changes hands in the dead of night on my server.

Edited, Dec 25th 2010 6:27pm by ArtemisEnteri

Yep, said this a week or two ago.

It's pretty terrible.
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#8 Dec 26 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Pretty terrible does not quite cover the hideous and blatantly obvious design flaw of the system.
How this ever made it live is a miracle.
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#9 Dec 26 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Default
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Apparently turtling on one base isn't as good an idea as it seems - Horde took TB back today during normal hours.

Was funny though - apparently word hadn't gotten out that Horde had it back as there was a terrific turnout by the Allies - had at least one full raid group when I did it today.
#10 Dec 27 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Default
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rusttle wrote:
Apparently turtling on one base isn't as good an idea as it seems - Horde took TB back today during normal hours.

Was funny though - apparently word hadn't gotten out that Horde had it back as there was a terrific turnout by the Allies - had at least one full raid group when I did it today.

How isn't it a good idea? Unless you suck, the other team can't win.
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#11 Dec 27 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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Tb defense goes like this.

Turtle one base.

Alliance attacks next base.

Zerg that base.

Profit.

Its just a circle of ****. Worst design ever, but Horde has it on my server pretty much 24/7 so I guess I can't complain.
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#12 Dec 27 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

How isn't it a good idea? Unless you suck, the other team can't win.


See the TL,DR OP - Allies on my server are so used to outnumbering Horde T10+ from WG and outgearing them due to all the honor they previously racked up that I sincerely doubt most of them know how to fight anymore.

Remember, I'm self-proclaimed PvP bottom 50% yet if I get jumped going from point A to B I've been winning consistently with anything less then 3-1 gankage and even then I always take out at least one of them, two about half the time and all three (or the third one flees) every once in a while, so yeah, pure suckage on Ally's part on my server.
#13 Dec 28 2010 at 3:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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The change to have it give 1800 Honor for a win will do nothing to make the game play better, it will only encourage win trading.
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#14 Dec 28 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Alliance on my server failed so hard at this last night. We were defending, let the horde cap Ironclad and Slagworks, then they zerged us at Warden's, and instead of leaving the graveyard to cap one of the unguarded areas, the entire Alliance team stood around until the horde capped Warden's too. I am terrible at pvp and even I know that's not how you win.

EDIT: Apparently my server's decided to trade wins, which is why we intentionally lost last night. Makes a bit more sense now.

Edited, Dec 28th 2010 6:12pm by Tellaria
#15 Dec 28 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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one strategy is to have a large force in the center CC-ing, slowing, fearing and stunning people in the center, which is the defenders only spawn point. The aim is not to kill, though one is free to do so, but to keep htem as locked as possible and waste their time. A smaller force moves as pack and catches the points. Those who die, rez and rush back to continue their jobs. This has met with some degree of consistent success where attempted. Though it has clear problems.

However not too big and not too small. The point catchers need to be big enough to defend themselves.

Good thing is it helps what comes best to pvp bads, fighting in the center.

problem with this is it needs some coordination and its hard to cover all sides and the raid may have to say, increase the size of the groups depending on what they're facing.

All i really know is its better than the Tol Barad Merry Go Round Express.
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#16 Dec 29 2010 at 4:37 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds like an accurate depiction of siege warfare to me. It's generally a pretty bad idea to try and assault a fortified position with a garrison equal in number to your attacking force.

Praise be to Blizzard for injecting some realism into the game.
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#17 Dec 29 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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My server now win trades.

**** yes easy honor.
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#18 Dec 29 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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ArexLovesPie wrote:
My server now win trades.

**** yes easy honor.
Idem dito for Kazzak EU.
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#19 Dec 30 2010 at 2:06 AM Rating: Decent
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If Allies on my server are trying to win swap they're going about it horrifically wrong - none of them are showing up for the fight resulting in the handful of Horde that can get in being unable to win. I hit the queue this evening literally the second the timer let me, didn't get a slot and the battle ended 15m later.
#20 Dec 30 2010 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
ArexLovesPie wrote:
My server now win trades.

**** yes easy honor.
Idem dito for Kazzak EU.


The post 'battle' PvP has escalated by a large margin since win swapping started on my server. Makes the dailies that much more fun.
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#21 Dec 30 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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Same goes for my server Horse.

Literally nothing happens during attacks and then its like **** just explodes onto tol barad after that.
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#22 Dec 31 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Battles used to be horrific, and amazingly hard to defend anything. Mob slaughterfest. Frankly, I nearly hated it ... hard as **** to attack and win, defending seemed likewise.

Win trading has taken over and I see no *self censored expletive*-ing reason to keep this in the game. There's nothing worthwhile happening, defending is now pointless, and I simply have another reason to gripe about Blizz's sh*tty design choices.

Edited, Dec 31st 2010 4:08pm by Azaza
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#23 Dec 31 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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I'm all for the win trading. With the horrible queue times for battlegrounds the honor grind has been staggeringly awful. Like, 50-100 honor per hour awful. This is pretty much the only way I'm getting my Bloodthirsty pieces.

The only problem is that everyone's caught onto it and getting into TB has become difficult. It seems to be random rather than actually tied to when you enter the queue. I think somewhere along the line they missed the definition of "queue." What they're using seems more like a "list."
#24 Jan 01 2011 at 12:34 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:

The post 'battle' PvP has escalated by a large margin since win swapping started on my server. Makes the dailies that much more fun.


Does the zone stay flagged? If not then just wait five minutes and you're fine.
#25 Jan 01 2011 at 3:23 AM Rating: Good
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Rusttle, it's a PvP zone, what do you think?
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#26 Jan 01 2011 at 4:56 AM Rating: Good
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There is this thing you can use, which I prefer not to, if you are failing to get into the queue.

Basically you run onto the bridge that gets you to tol barad during the fight and the 'You are not meant to be here, will get ported soon' comes. You just need to time it so that you are in the zone as the win/loss happens and you get all the rewards.

You can also run off the zone and then back in again to stop the porting.

I personally do not use it but if you never get in... easy honor!
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#27 Jan 01 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Rusttle, it's a PvP zone, what do you think?


Actually, you do not stay flagged after the battle - on a PvE server at least. Rusttle actually has good advice this time.
#28 Jan 01 2011 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, add that to the massive design fail list of Tol Barad.
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#29 Jan 02 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, add that to the massive design fail list of Tol Barad.


While I found it nice to be able to go out there and farm or even finish dailies I didn't get done earlier, it does take away from the zone. Running through the zone and seeing someone from the horde struggling with Problim I should be able to help the big guy finish them off. It is a PvP zone after all.
#30 Jan 02 2011 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Rusttle, it's a PvP zone, what do you think?


I KNOW that PvP turns off when the battle's over - what do you think happens?

As a plus point though the Allies on my server finally figured out how to win swap, as a down side only a few of them bother joining the battle meaning that even if you catch the timer the second you can join the queue odds are still heavily against you getting in.
#31 Jan 04 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, this has worked out about as good as TB possibly could. At first, nobody bothered with TB on my server. And since I can't get into more than 1-2 battlegrounds an hour either, there were no fights, and no honor. Then they "fixed" TB with the 1800 honor thing, and no fight for lots of honor was definitely better than no fight for no honor. At least I could get gear I could use to... not fight.

Ah, but NOW. Now there is no honor, but that hasn't been widely realized yet. So they come in, still expect us to roll over, and when people actually try to defend, their little gnome bodies just quiver wildly with rage, they call all their friends to come defend their honor against the filthy betraying Horde, and there's a HUGE ENORMOUS BRAWL.

A good fight for lots of honor would be better. But barring that, a rage-quivering gnome brawl for a little honor is the best combination.

Of course, even people who don't read WoW news (I know right? What are these people doing?) will catch on within the next day, and then TB will go back to sucking.
#32 Jan 04 2011 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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They nerfed it back to 180 honor for offense win?
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#33 Jan 04 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
They nerfed it back to 180 honor for offense win?


That is defense win.

Offense should be 360.
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#34 Jan 04 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, 180 for defensive victory, 360 for offensive. Which puts us essentially back where we started; upping the honor for offense was a stupid solution anyway, and 360 isn't going to do squat to solve the problem. It has nothing to do with whether the offense wants to win, so motivating them isn't the answer so much as fixing your awful f'd up design.

Edit: I think it would be a lot more fun if they made it so once the offense caps a base, it's theirs for the duration and can't be won back. And do something else with the towers, they're dumb.

Edited, Jan 4th 2011 4:47pm by teacake
#35 Jan 05 2011 at 12:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Ah, but NOW. Now there is no honor, but that hasn't been widely realized yet. So they come in, still expect us to roll over, and when people actually try to defend, their little gnome bodies just quiver wildly with rage, they call all their friends to come defend their honor against the filthy betraying Horde, and there's a HUGE ENORMOUS BRAWL.


Managed to get into a few (surprise, defense ones) and while a few folks were hissy fitting that we were "cheating" by actually defending, the overwhelming majority was angry because the Allies have apparently been "cheating" as well by fighting tooth and nail on D after being given a win trade previously.

I don't know if they fixed something to make it easier for O to win or if it was simply a case of enough people on D still trying to win trade but I've noticed that even with something resembling active D the O has still been winning.

I'm there more for gear the honor so personally I'd rather they put the tokens back for win and add some for loss, in fact, to ensure max attendance, give both sides the same tokens too.
#36 Jan 05 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, if they just made it a EotS/BfG/AB-style resource accumulation game, problem solved.
#37Azaza, Posted: Jan 06 2011 at 2:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Alliance largely outnumbers Horde on my server.
#38 Jan 07 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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And I'm calling ******** on that claim. Gear will have very limited effect in a battle on the scale of Tol Barad unless the differences in gear are dramatic, which they aren't.
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#39 Jan 07 2011 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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Azaza wrote:
Alliance largely outnumbers Horde on my server.

As such, we can't attack and win Tol Barad. And on the infrequent chance we have, we don't hold it.

While TB's design is very annoying, and often feeling ridiculous, I'm chalking it up to Horde being better geared (with lower population BG queues and smaller pool of folks getting in back 2 back TB's), that Alliance winning in a 1:1 battle is quite small.

Edited, Jan 6th 2011 3:36pm by Azaza


I might have to call bullsh*t too. Unless I'm reading something very wrong, this post makes little sense. You say that Alliance largely outnumbers the Horde so you (Horde, I guess?) rarely win. Yet, in the very next paragraph you say that the Horde wins all the time because they're overgeared?

Also, doesn't the Tol Barad queueing system attempt to create a 1:1 ratio so no faction can outnumber the other one?
#40 Jan 07 2011 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm alliance, and horde is dominating Tol Barad atm.

With a larger alliance server population, watered down by all kinds (kids, scrubs, nubs, whatnot) Horde are kickin our **** royally.

Before the widespread cross-realm queues happened for BG's, I'd chalk up such Horde dominance to their faster queues, faster honor gain, and faster/better gearing.

Frankly, I'm more or less sticking to the same basic argument for Tol Barad now. Whether it's accurate or not, honor gain/gearing thru region wide BG queues, it may seem to shoot holes in that theory, but I have to cling to some argument for the utter alliance fail to defend, much less attack, in Tol Barad atm.

Other than resorting to the ultimate base argument that alliance just sucks in general for pvp (which is a stupid argument anyway)...
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#41 Jan 07 2011 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
And I'm calling bullsh*t on that claim. Gear will have very limited effect in a battle on the scale of Tol Barad unless the differences in gear are dramatic, which they aren't.


That's simply not the case. Tol Barad's design removes strategy from the equation - it is simply a case of throwing meat into the grinder.

Now, whether this gear disparity actually exists is another question.
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#42 Jan 15 2011 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Alliance largely outnumbers Horde on my server.

As such, we can't attack and win Tol Barad. And on the infrequent chance we have, we don't hold it.


Numbers shouldn't matter as TB is supposed to be an even match up - if it was otherwise then my server would be having the same problem (we were one of those servers where playing Horde in WG was like being the humans in the Battle at Whiskey post in Starship Troopers) but we aren't, in fact, we've been dominating TB rather nicely.

So if you guys are that badly outnumbered then if anything, TB should be a cake run for you as you've gone from fighting 10-1 odds to even odds.

Quote:
That's simply not the case. Tol Barad's design removes strategy from the equation - it is simply a case of throwing meat into the grinder.

Now, whether this gear disparity actually exists is another question.


Higher GS means more health/armor, less damage taken, higher DPS/HPS and larger mana pools - while skill can negate those advantages in individual combat there's very little chance for that in TB meaning that the side with 1.2 million health and 3k average dps has an edge over the side with 800k total health and 2.3k average dps, especially in even odds.
#43 Jan 15 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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That's simply not the case. Tol Barad's design removes strategy from the equation - it is simply a case of throwing meat into the grinder.

Now, whether this gear disparity actually exists is another question.


Higher GS means more health/armor, less damage taken, higher DPS/HPS and larger mana pools - while skill can negate those advantages in individual combat there's very little chance for that in TB meaning that the side with 1.2 million health and 3k average dps has an edge over the side with 800k total health and 2.3k average dps, especially in even odds.

Yeah, if everyone sat still and beat eachother with optimal DPS rotations, I'd agree, but that's not the case. At any one time, you have an uneven number of people traveling, making poor decisions as to where they travel to (or good ones), and you also have an uneven number of healers on either team in a vast majority of the battles.

Those things make gear pretty much inconsequential.

Not surprising that you didn't think of that, though.
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#44 Jan 16 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Here is what he is trying to say. I think.

Horde are outnumbered so they win.

100 alliance want to do TB but only an amount = to the horde can get in. So a larger % of horde get to keep entering the battle each time while the alliance have a more random assortment. Allowing the gear gap between the horde and alliance on his server to continue to widen as the horde have an easier time of acquiring it.


If thats not the point he was after then I'm as confused as everyone else.

Edited, Jan 16th 2011 1:33pm by xinaskin
#45 Jan 16 2011 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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xinaskin wrote:
Here is what he is trying to say. I think.

Horde are outnumbered so they win.

100 alliance want to do TB but only an amount = to the horde can get in. So a larger % of horde get to keep entering the battle each time while the alliance have a more random assortment. Allowing the gear gap between the horde and alliance on his server to continue to widen as the horde have an easier time of acquiring it.


If thats not the point he was after then I'm as confused as everyone else.

That's not a logical point, though; if TB was the only source of honor, it might be a good point, but it's in fact only one small source of honor.

Since you can get honor outside of TB and Alliance should be near-instant queue on almost every battlegroup, it's not logical to say that a gear gap exists, or that it exists for any reason other than Alliance being lazy.
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#46rusttle, Posted: Jan 22 2011 at 1:36 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Which makes individual GS even more important - when you have questionable back up and irrational tactical behavior then what it ultimately comes down to is your individual ability to survive the situation and/or make the other guy not survive it.
#47 Jan 22 2011 at 5:03 AM Rating: Good
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And if such a giant gear gap was actually plausible, you'd have a point. As it stands the gear gap is more like one team having a few more bullets than the other, not some greens vs superleetepics situation.
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#48 Jan 24 2011 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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rusttle wrote:
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Yeah, if everyone sat still and beat eachother with optimal DPS rotations, I'd agree, but that's not the case. At any one time, you have an uneven number of people traveling, making poor decisions as to where they travel to (or good ones), and you also have an uneven number of healers on either team in a vast majority of the battles.


Which makes individual GS even more important - when you have questionable back up and irrational tactical behavior then what it ultimately comes down to is your individual ability to survive the situation and/or make the other guy not survive it.

Grab two dozen people off the street, give half of them leather jackets and muzzle loaders and give the other half of them Kevlar body armor and AR15s then put them into random teams with the inability to loot gear from the fallen - the team with the most AR15 armed individuals has the better chance of winning due to the superior offensive capabilities and survivability granted by their weapons and armor.

Quite surprising you wouldn't know/understand such a basic principle?

Oh my God, you are the stupidest person on Allakhazam, and it's not even close.

Congratulations. Smiley: rolleyes
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#49 Jan 25 2011 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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I'm sorry Theo but no.
While rusttle might be stupid ZAM also has varus and Almalieque and both of those have achieved levels of stupid that were thought to be impossible.
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#50 Jan 25 2011 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry Theo but no.
While rusttle might be stupid ZAM also has varus and Almalieque and both of those have achieved levels of stupid that were thought to be impossible.

Fine, Rusttle is the dumbest WoW-ZAM poster.

Happy now? Smiley: tongue
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#51 Jan 30 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Default
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And if such a giant gear gap was actually plausible, you'd have a point. As it stands the gear gap is more like one team having a few more bullets than the other, not some greens vs superleetepics situation.


We're not talking greens vs purples, we're talking resilience - one side rolling with 200 res and the other 1200 res - so maybe the muzzle loaders/AR15s part was a poor analogy but the leather vs Kevlar stands.

Quote:
Oh my God, you are the stupidest person on Allakhazam, and it's not even close.


You know kid, if you didn't have your head head so far up your backside with your petty little grudge you might have recalled the little fact I noted above instead of coming off like a twit and a git that doesn't understand such a basic mechanic.
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