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Incoming human nerf in 4.0.1.Follow

#1 Sep 16 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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That's right. I've confirmed that the human racial Every Man for Himself (PvP trinket) is being nerfed to 3 mins, and is not independent of the actual PvP trinket (as WotF is).

It's currently that way on PTR, and all PvP trinkets are still 2 mins. Considering that it's been reported that way on beta, I have to think this is intentional.

Have fun rerolling/race changing as I did a week ago, humans. Smiley: frown
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#2 Sep 16 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Damnit, and I just had my human rogue started!

I can't believe bliz is completely demolishing a racial for humans without compensating in any way...
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#3 Sep 16 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah. At this point, it's a tossup between Night Elf (elusiveness, shadowmeld), Human (perception, diplomacy), and Worgen (sprint thing).

Personally, I'm glad I switched back to undead. Even WotF is more useful than EMFH at this point.
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#4 Sep 16 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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I have a level 80 NElf and a level 80 Undead.

Half tempted just to transfer the night elf instead of leveling the human.

With sprint being on a one minute timer, I am not too sure about worgen.

Gah, I am always so indecisive....
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#5 Sep 16 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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...Seriously? Wow, glad they decided to make the racial useless rather than just balancing it.
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#6 Sep 16 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
...Seriously? Wow, glad they decided to make the racial useless rather than just balancing it.


How exactly would you balance that racial?

Remove anything from the effect = useless.

Tamper with the cd(which they did) = useless.
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#7 Sep 16 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm still confused. Let me get this right. The new EMFH
A) Shares a cooldown with the PvP trinket
B) has a 3 minute cooldown, whereas PvP trinkets have 2,
right?

Or does the new EMFH work similarly to WOTF, in that it doesn't share a CD with your trinket but that the two can't be used within 45 seconds of eachother?

If it's the latter, it's not all bad, is it?
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#8 Sep 16 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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Mozared wrote:
I'm still confused. Let me get this right. The new EMFH
A) Shares a cooldown with the PvP trinket
B) has a 3 minute cooldown, whereas PvP trinkets have 2,
right?

Or does the new EMFH work similarly to WOTF, in that it doesn't share a CD with your trinket but that the two can't be used within 45 seconds of eachother?

If it's the latter, it's not all bad, is it?


If it was the latter we wouldn't be complaining, we would all be re-rolling a few humans for each class we played!

If you use it in its current state, it even put the PvP trinket on a 3 minute cooldown. That's what I read anyway. Theo can confirm.

Edited, Sep 17th 2010 2:59am by devzzz
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#9 Sep 16 2010 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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devzzz wrote:
If you use it in its current state, it even put the PvP trinket on a 3 minute cooldown. That's what I read anyway. Theo can confirm.

This is correct.

Also, I assume it's so that it's not worthless in PvE but also isn't nearly game-breaking in PvP (as having 2 DPS trinkets can be a HUGE benefit).
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#10 Sep 17 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I faction changed my paladin to dwarf, I was really close to picking human but something told me they'd probably nerf it. And I figured the dwarf racial was so weak that maybe, maybe, one day they'd buff it. I've used it a few times at least to remove poisons and bleeds in PVP but to be honest, the blood elf silence is probably the best racial in the game.
#11 Sep 17 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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mikelolol wrote:
I faction changed my paladin to dwarf


Smiley: disappointed
#12 Sep 17 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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I’m of the opinion that they shouldn’t have introduced it in the first place, but it’s interesting to note that the ability was balancing itself as trinkets got more powerful. The difference between a ilvl 232 epic trinket with cc break and an ilvl 232 epic trinket with no cc break was significant, but as item budget increases the difference becomes less significant. The difference between an ilvl 320 epic cc break trinket and an ilvl 320 epic non-cc trinket could be shrugged off--at that point, the humans would have a wider selection of trinkets to choose from, but a very small advantage in terms of item budget.

It’s a non-scaling racial, whereas a flat 1% bonus to hit, haste or crit represents a bigger bonus (more hit/haste/crit rating) at level 85 than at level 1.

Still, not sad to see it nerfed to the ground. Next target Shadowmeld, I hope.
#13 Sep 17 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Default
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emmitsvenson wrote:
I’m of the opinion that they shouldn’t have introduced it in the first place, but it’s interesting to note that the ability was balancing itself as trinkets got more powerful. The difference between a ilvl 232 epic trinket with cc break and an ilvl 232 epic trinket with no cc break was significant, but as item budget increases the difference becomes less significant. The difference between an ilvl 320 epic cc break trinket and an ilvl 320 epic non-cc trinket could be shrugged off--at that point, the humans would have a wider selection of trinkets to choose from, but a very small advantage in terms of item budget.

It’s a non-scaling racial, whereas a flat 1% bonus to hit, haste or crit represents a bigger bonus (more hit/haste/crit rating) at level 85 than at level 1.

Still, not sad to see it nerfed to the ground. Next target Shadowmeld, I hope.

EMFH actually does scale, but it scales on the trinket slot it frees up.

Every other race in the game is dependent on having a CC break trinket if they're going to succeed in PvP. Other than that, they can use any trinket they want and have access to, where humans can just flat-out use any trinkets they want.

Why is that significant? It would seem like that's not a very big advantage.

Because Blizzard doesn't release new CC break trinkets very often to stay up with current content, and don't offer any variance in what stats are on them.

Yes, they offer a new one with resilience on it every season, but how many classes have roles where they still use the old 213 trinkets? I know rogues do. Instead of using my 213 trinket on a human rogue, I could use a PvE trinket.

In thinking about it more, I think this is a fairly balanced change. EMFH was too powerful as a PvP racial; now it's a PvE racial (you get to break effects in PvE without wearing a PvP trinket).
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#14 Sep 17 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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You could also see it as casual/hardcore balancing. A casual pve human toon can pop into a BG without having to worry about getting honor for the best available trinket. A 3 min cooldown is fine for them. Only those interested in rated-BGs and arena will really want the 2 min cooldown available.

I still think Shadowmeld, when used properly, is a hellova racial. Nothing says "good morning" like poping out of stealth to charge/stun a flag stealing punk.
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#15 Sep 17 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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teacake wrote:
mikelolol wrote:
I faction changed my paladin to dwarf


Smiley: disappointed


So far I'm happy with it. I started WoW as a gnome, then switched to Horde for a while. I kind of missed the Alliance cities, and the queue times for BGs on Horde were getting into the 10 minute average range. I'll take scrapping tooth and nail for a win with fast queues over higher win % with long queues anyday. Plus I have a huge beard now, which is pretty win.
#16 Sep 17 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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Remove anything from the effect = useless.


I would have preferred to see it become more like Escape Artist. And I mean that in the "applies to some CC but not others" sense.

It could also have been interesting if it was a 2 min CD, separate from the trinket, but had a "reduces next CC effect duration by half" or something, rather than a break. The actual number would vary, but it would have been a nice racial that required skill to use, but still wasn't super OP. And the actual % it reduced could make it fairly balancable.
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#17 Sep 17 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Have fun rerolling/race changing as I did a week ago, humans.


Don't rush it, Cata is still work in progress. Odds are that either the trinket or the racial is going to end up being changed before Cata launches so that the trinket and the racial match each other.

Quote:
Yes, they offer a new one with resilience on it every season, but how many classes have roles where they still use the old 213 trinkets? I know rogues do. Instead of using my 213 trinket on a human rogue, I could use a PvE trinket.


I have human and non-human chars and I always just go for the resil version on non-human chars.

The extra resil on that slot allows you to reach your desired resil goal with 1-2 less resil items and you can equip 1-2 extra non-resil items that give you higher DPS. So if you really just wanted a DPS increase just let the trinket do the resil and put the extra DPS on other slots.

On the other hand if you require a higher amount of resil, what happens to humans is that getting the resil trinket completely wastes your racial. So you end up having to take a tanking trinket as substitute for the extra resil.

In other words, you're already not getting much from that racial unless you got Deathbringers Will and a trinket from Ruby Sanctum, which you haven't.

This is why I personally don't have any preference for the human EMFH racial. The perception racial is the one that is good for rogues but there's a chance it might get scrapped as they seem to have scrapped every talent that increases passive stealth and passive stealth detection.
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#18 Sep 17 2010 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
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xorq wrote:
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Have fun rerolling/race changing as I did a week ago, humans.


Don't rush it, Cata is still work in progress. Odds are that either the trinket or the racial is going to end up being changed before Cata launches so that the trinket and the racial match each other.

It was originally 5 mins on alpha. It was reduced to 3 mins for beta, and has stuck around for months on beta and now it's in 4.0.1.

I think it's pretty safe to say at this point that it will stick around.
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#19 Sep 18 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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MMO-Champion wrote:
Human
* Perception is gone.

Link.
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#20 Sep 18 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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Yup. I forsee a LOT of race changes in the future. I'm not sure I understand why Blizz felt they needed to go from Humans having an OP racial to them having no PvP racials at all...

[EDIT]

Also,
Quote:
Undead
Cannibalize now also regenerates mana. (7% of total health and mana every 2 sec for 10 sec)

Tauren
Cultivation still increases your Herbalism skill by 15, but also lets you gather herbs faster than normal herbalists.

Gnomes
Shortblade Specialization - Expertise with Daggers and One-Handed Swords increased by 3.



Edited, Sep 18th 2010 1:04pm by idiggory
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#21 Sep 18 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
MMO-Champion wrote:
Human
* Perception is gone.

Link.

I'm so happy I could cry.

Y'know, if I had the ability to cry.

Edited, Sep 18th 2010 11:40am by Theophany
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#22 Sep 18 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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I'm so happy I could cry.

Y'know, if I had the ability to cry.


Time to re-roll, perhaps.

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#23 Sep 18 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
MMO-Champion wrote:
Human
* Perception is gone.

Link.


Seems I guessed right.

It's cool really, IMO stealth should be countered by non-passive stealth detection abilities, and it should be a class spell and not a racial.

There's still pretty good odds that EMFH either doesn't get nerfed or the trinket does. I remember in other betas they had spells that stayed for the entire beta but didn't come out at launch. And with removing perception odds are something will be added.


Edited, Sep 18th 2010 4:13pm by xorq
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#24 Sep 18 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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The cannibalize change is really nice for Undead casters. Since mana actually matters now, the ability to get some back (in both PvE and PvP) is really huge.

Can Cannibalize be used in combat? Because it actually might lead to Undead being very OP PvE healers for fights that have humanoid adds (and the corpses hang around). Put up PW:S and Renew, than chow down on a corpse to get 35% of your mana back. That's pretty huge, even if you can only do it once on that fight.
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#25 Sep 18 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
The cannibalize change is really nice for Undead casters. Since mana actually matters now, the ability to get some back (in both PvE and PvP) is really huge.

Can Cannibalize be used in combat? Because it actually might lead to Undead being very OP PvE healers for fights that have humanoid adds (and the corpses hang around). Put up PW:S and Renew, than chow down on a corpse to get 35% of your mana back. That's pretty huge, even if you can only do it once on that fight.


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The CD is only 2 minutes as things stand, so you could potentially do it a few times.

I really don't think the ability needs this functionality, to be honest. Everyone needs HP, casters are not being left out.
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#26 Sep 18 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory wrote:
Can Cannibalize be used in combat?

Yes.
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