Cataclysm PvP - discussionFollow

But November 2nd is far away... however will I spend all that time?

Not that I really need a PvP weapon to pwn nubs. I'm cool like that.

I did edit my post to make it more visible that I said "this is what you can't do in Cata".

Now let's get to what I did say you affirmatively can do in Cata.

You can affirmatively have your 4s Cheap Shot and your 6s Kidney Shot "during the fight". You're not going to be dead in 15 sec after Cheap Shot. Rogues are looking like the melee class with highest survivability as of now, only second to DKs in specific situations.

I also said you will open with ambush more often. Because you'll probably get more benefit from Ambush->Kidney Shot than from opening with Cheap Shot. You can ambush with any weapon now too. It's all part of a "less cheap shot and more ambush" conspiracy the devs have going on in there.

I don't see cheap shot as completely useless.

6s Kidney Shot requires 5 combo points so you can't "start" with a 6s KS. Cheap Shot will still give you the ability to "open with a stun". And Kidney Shot has a 20 sec cooldown so if you open with Ambush->Kidney Shot your only way to pull another stun during that cooldown is to vanish->cheap shot.

Also keep in mind that you get a self-healing effect. So while you will stun your enemies for 6 seconds instead of 9 you can heal enough to make up for the damage received during those other 3 seconds.

I'm not going to convince you to play Rogue in Cata, in fact you should probably play another class because you've played rogue so much you'd probably enjoy a change. But my current view of rogues in Cata is that they are shaping up to be quite imba for PvP and quite boring for PvE.

It's hard to say how casters will turn out, they look fine but it greatly depends on the effectiveness and the cooldown of anticaster abilities given to other classes. Something as small as an unbalanced version of CloS and casters are screwed.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 6:07pm by xorq

To interrupt a channeled cooldown while kick is on cooldown? It's situational. But also meant that you can't just pull another stun during that time without blowing vanish for the other stun.

Instead if you know you will want to have a second stun you can open with cheap shot and have your second stun (even if it has DR) during the fight without having to blow vanish for it.

Stuns are also used as near-equivalents to root/silence. They prevent your target from moving and prevent it from casting things at you, in particular if you want to "prevent" an instant cast.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 6:16pm by xorq

True. I would personally rather use garotte, although that may get resisted.

Gouge, is a good interrupt as well.


That is a good reason actually!

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 10:10pm by devzzz

That's precisely the reason why.

Every class has to use their cooldowns. If you compare the ones Rogues get with the near-equivalents of other classes, the ones rogues get are stronger, have a shorter cooldown, or both.

In Cata, from what I understand from blue posts, if you have a Pally, a DK, a Rogue, an Enh Shaman, and a Feral and none of them use any cooldowns they're going to be about equally squishy to incoming damage.

Mail will absorb slightly more than Leather, and Plate will absorb slightly more than Mail, but it's getting nerfed big time so it's no longer as meaningful.

Warriors are going to be the squishiest class, they don't get any resist/absorb/survive abilities unless they spec prot.

I would love this:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25170782836&sid=1&pageNo=16

Blue post from Kalgan
"We're simultaneously working on a "war games" mode for battlegrounds that allows groups to challenge other groups to a battle in a specific battleground (including horde vs horde and alliance vs alliance). Granted, the rewards aren't significant, but it's more for players to be able to have fun battling their guildmates and friends or for players on a server to throw down for the sake of pride and bragging rights."

Talking about trying stuff, I wonder if ranged dps teams will have a little advantage in rated BG's. In arena they are constraint by the size of the arena, but with open fields classes like Hunter and mage can hurt a lot.

Ranged do have the advantage of being able to defend a node without having to be right on the node. A NE hunter for example can stealth and interrupt a capture thus delaying the fight long enough for others from his team to respond with help. It'll be interesting to see what the strategies become with people having more health, and also taking it more seriously.

ah, right, I haven't been playing my hunter in the beta as much as my druid, so didn't remember that change.

The Night Elf shadowmeld racial is incredibly powerful in battlegrounds such as AB and EotS, where estimating forces is 90% of the strategy. There’s no question in my mind that Alliance teams will dominate those ladders, and teams made entirely of NE + rogues + druids will be at the very top.

Hunters might end up on that list too, depending on how Camoflage is implemented. To quote blue:



That's not quite what's on the beta now. We'll see what it ends up being.



Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:02pm by emmitsvenson

"War Games Mode" could be an excellent training and tactics tool regardless of any honor, etc available from the matches. Not to mention fun as hell and a great way to shut up the occasional loud-mouths in the guild.

One thing I'm liking about these new rated battlegrounds is that it will encourage people to interact on their servers and form networks between skilled players. The LFM spam will be regrettable but it is what it is. Anything to get away from the random queues. It looks like success in Cataclysm will call for teamwork the likes of which we haven't seen for some time.