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#52 Sep 13 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
RAWDEAL wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Let's put it this way: I don't see a lot of twinks practicing their death coil vanishes, instant blinds on trinket, etc, where top arena players practice that stuff. To think that organization matters more than skill in PvP is pretty funny, really.
We are talking BG'S here not arena, organization is the key. Thinking skill matter more is stupid, lost plenty of battles with Richard’s full of skills wanting to save the day. 2200 arena rating won't win you a 40 man BG, organization will.

Do you really think you are a top arena player? what's your actual rating? i'm curious.

You think that 5v5 teams don't have organization? Try playing against some.
I agree that GOOD 5v5 teams have organization, but saying that twink guilds sucks I have a surprise for you. The level of understanding of the strategy is higher than most casual players. Just like raiding, it's a team work; if one or more ***** up...it's a wipe! I don't care what is your GS.

BG's and arena are 2 different animals, but with a good RL and discipline, BG'S are lots of fun and more accessible (think wolf pack). I highly recommended to check them out for Cata.
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#53 Sep 13 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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But November 2nd is far away... however will I spend all that time?

Not that I really need a PvP weapon to pwn nubs. I'm cool like that.
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#54 Sep 13 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
But November 2nd is far away... however will I spend all that time?

Not that I really need a PvP weapon to pwn nubs. I'm cool like that.


Like me, not actually playing wow :P

If you do want to do something productive, Iw ill be leveling a new human rogue when I gain access to a brand new ultra shiny super duper magnificent PC and real internet!

You are more than welcome to level with me. But I will be working full time.
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#55 Sep 13 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
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You're wrong, and you need to read more.

You can't get a 10 second stun in. CS and KS DR, making a CS+KS a 7 second stun, and you'll have a 20 second cooldown. I'd rather Premed/Ambush/KS, do 10k damage and stun someone for 6 seconds.

That's my point, though. It's retarded that one of our openers is completely useless outside of Shadow Dance, now. If I can do 10k more damage with 1 second less stun, why am I going to CS?


I did edit my post to make it more visible that I said "this is what you can't do in Cata".

Now let's get to what I did say you affirmatively can do in Cata.

You can affirmatively have your 4s Cheap Shot and your 6s Kidney Shot "during the fight". You're not going to be dead in 15 sec after Cheap Shot. Rogues are looking like the melee class with highest survivability as of now, only second to DKs in specific situations.

I also said you will open with ambush more often. Because you'll probably get more benefit from Ambush->Kidney Shot than from opening with Cheap Shot. You can ambush with any weapon now too. It's all part of a "less cheap shot and more ambush" conspiracy the devs have going on in there.

I don't see cheap shot as completely useless.

6s Kidney Shot requires 5 combo points so you can't "start" with a 6s KS. Cheap Shot will still give you the ability to "open with a stun". And Kidney Shot has a 20 sec cooldown so if you open with Ambush->Kidney Shot your only way to pull another stun during that cooldown is to vanish->cheap shot.

Also keep in mind that you get a self-healing effect. So while you will stun your enemies for 6 seconds instead of 9 you can heal enough to make up for the damage received during those other 3 seconds.

I'm not going to convince you to play Rogue in Cata, in fact you should probably play another class because you've played rogue so much you'd probably enjoy a change. But my current view of rogues in Cata is that they are shaping up to be quite imba for PvP and quite boring for PvE.

It's hard to say how casters will turn out, they look fine but it greatly depends on the effectiveness and the cooldown of anticaster abilities given to other classes. Something as small as an unbalanced version of CloS and casters are screwed.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 6:07pm by xorq
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#56 Sep 13 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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xorq wrote:
[quote]6s Kidney Shot requires 5 combo points so you can't "start" with a 6s KS. Cheap Shot will still give you the ability to "open with a stun". And Kidney Shot has a 20 sec cooldown so if you open with Ambush->Kidney Shot your only way to pull another stun during that cooldown is to vanish->cheap shot.


SOrry to not reply to the rest of the post, but, why would you want to vanish cheap shot, if kidney shot is on cooldown? That means your cheap shot will have diminishing rreturns and only be 2 seconds max.
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#57 Sep 13 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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devzzz wrote:
xorq wrote:
[quote]6s Kidney Shot requires 5 combo points so you can't "start" with a 6s KS. Cheap Shot will still give you the ability to "open with a stun". And Kidney Shot has a 20 sec cooldown so if you open with Ambush->Kidney Shot your only way to pull another stun during that cooldown is to vanish->cheap shot.


SOrry to not reply to the rest of the post, but, why would you want to vanish cheap shot, if kidney shot is on cooldown? That means your cheap shot will have diminishing rreturns and only be 2 seconds max.


To interrupt a channeled cooldown while kick is on cooldown? It's situational. But also meant that you can't just pull another stun during that time without blowing vanish for the other stun.

Instead if you know you will want to have a second stun you can open with cheap shot and have your second stun (even if it has DR) during the fight without having to blow vanish for it.

Stuns are also used as near-equivalents to root/silence. They prevent your target from moving and prevent it from casting things at you, in particular if you want to "prevent" an instant cast.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 6:16pm by xorq
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#58 Sep 13 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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devzzz wrote:
xorq wrote:
[quote]6s Kidney Shot requires 5 combo points so you can't "start" with a 6s KS. Cheap Shot will still give you the ability to "open with a stun". And Kidney Shot has a 20 sec cooldown so if you open with Ambush->Kidney Shot your only way to pull another stun during that cooldown is to vanish->cheap shot.


SOrry to not reply to the rest of the post, but, why would you want to vanish cheap shot, if kidney shot is on cooldown? That means your cheap shot will have diminishing rreturns and only be 2 seconds max.


Different target, possibly. CS looks to be pretty situational.

Nah, if all you want is an interrupt then gouge or garrote would be better.

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 10:10pm by Kavekk
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#59 Sep 13 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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xorq wrote:
devzzz wrote:
xorq wrote:
[quote]6s Kidney Shot requires 5 combo points so you can't "start" with a 6s KS. Cheap Shot will still give you the ability to "open with a stun". And Kidney Shot has a 20 sec cooldown so if you open with Ambush->Kidney Shot your only way to pull another stun during that cooldown is to vanish->cheap shot.


SOrry to not reply to the rest of the post, but, why would you want to vanish cheap shot, if kidney shot is on cooldown? That means your cheap shot will have diminishing rreturns and only be 2 seconds max.


To interrupt a channeled cooldown while kick is on cooldown? It's situational.


True. I would personally rather use garotte, although that may get resisted.

Gouge, is a good interrupt as well.

kavekk wrote:
Different person

That is a good reason actually!

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 10:10pm by devzzz
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#60 Sep 13 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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xorq wrote:
You can affirmatively have your 4s Cheap Shot and your 6s Kidney Shot "during the fight". You're not going to be dead in 15 sec after Cheap Shot. Rogues are looking like the melee class with highest survivability as of now, only second to DKs in specific situations.

Yeah, we might have the best survivability if we're Sub and we blow every single cooldown we have. Otherwise? Hah, no.
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#61 Sep 13 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
xorq wrote:
You can affirmatively have your 4s Cheap Shot and your 6s Kidney Shot "during the fight". You're not going to be dead in 15 sec after Cheap Shot. Rogues are looking like the melee class with highest survivability as of now, only second to DKs in specific situations.

Yeah, we might have the best survivability if we're Sub and we blow every single cooldown we have. Otherwise? Hah, no.


That's precisely the reason why.

Every class has to use their cooldowns. If you compare the ones Rogues get with the near-equivalents of other classes, the ones rogues get are stronger, have a shorter cooldown, or both.

In Cata, from what I understand from blue posts, if you have a Pally, a DK, a Rogue, an Enh Shaman, and a Feral and none of them use any cooldowns they're going to be about equally squishy to incoming damage.

Mail will absorb slightly more than Leather, and Plate will absorb slightly more than Mail, but it's getting nerfed big time so it's no longer as meaningful.

Warriors are going to be the squishiest class, they don't get any resist/absorb/survive abilities unless they spec prot.
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#62 Sep 13 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Warriors are going to be the squishiest class, they don't get any resist/absorb/survive abilities unless they spec prot.

That depends entirely on how severe the plate nerf is.

Considering is fine, but since so much depends on the plate nerf, we won't know what will happen - claiming A will is just as pointless as claiming B will.
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#63 Sep 14 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I would love this:
  • http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25170782836&sid=1&pageNo=16


  • Blue post from Kalgan
    "We're simultaneously working on a "war games" mode for battlegrounds that allows groups to challenge other groups to a battle in a specific battleground (including horde vs horde and alliance vs alliance). Granted, the rewards aren't significant, but it's more for players to be able to have fun battling their guildmates and friends or for players on a server to throw down for the sake of pride and bragging rights."
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    #64 Sep 14 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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    RAWDEAL wrote:
    I would love this:
  • http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25170782836&sid=1&pageNo=16


  • Blue post from Kalgan
    "We're simultaneously working on a "war games" mode for battlegrounds that allows groups to challenge other groups to a battle in a specific battleground (including horde vs horde and alliance vs alliance). Granted, the rewards aren't significant, but it's more for players to be able to have fun battling their guildmates and friends or for players on a server to throw down for the sake of pride and bragging rights."


    That sounds like fun. And if it doesn't actually affect the ratings then I see a lot of messing around and trying stuff in such games.
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    #65 Sep 14 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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    devzzz wrote:
    RAWDEAL wrote:
    I would love this:
  • http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25170782836&sid=1&pageNo=16


  • Blue post from Kalgan
    "We're simultaneously working on a "war games" mode for battlegrounds that allows groups to challenge other groups to a battle in a specific battleground (including horde vs horde and alliance vs alliance). Granted, the rewards aren't significant, but it's more for players to be able to have fun battling their guildmates and friends or for players on a server to throw down for the sake of pride and bragging rights."


    That sounds like fun. And if it doesn't actually affect the ratings then I see a lot of messing around and trying stuff in such games.
    Talking about trying stuff, I wonder if ranged dps teams will have a little advantage in rated BG's. In arena they are constraint by the size of the arena, but with open fields classes like Hunter and mage can hurt a lot.
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    #66 Sep 14 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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    RAWDEAL wrote:
    devzzz wrote:
    RAWDEAL wrote:
    I would love this:
  • http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25170782836&sid=1&pageNo=16


  • Blue post from Kalgan
    "We're simultaneously working on a "war games" mode for battlegrounds that allows groups to challenge other groups to a battle in a specific battleground (including horde vs horde and alliance vs alliance). Granted, the rewards aren't significant, but it's more for players to be able to have fun battling their guildmates and friends or for players on a server to throw down for the sake of pride and bragging rights."


    That sounds like fun. And if it doesn't actually affect the ratings then I see a lot of messing around and trying stuff in such games.
    Talking about trying stuff, I wonder if ranged dps teams will have a little advantage in rated BG's. In arena they are constraint by the size of the arena, but with open fields classes like Hunter and mage can hurt a lot.


    BGs aren't the same as arena though. Somebody that died will be up within 30 secs max.

    And those 2 classes aren't necessarily the best classes to help achieve the objectives.

    Yes they will be able to solo kill certain classes easier, but that isn't what BGs are about.
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    #67 Sep 14 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
    Ranged do have the advantage of being able to defend a node without having to be right on the node. A NE hunter for example can stealth and interrupt a capture thus delaying the fight long enough for others from his team to respond with help. It'll be interesting to see what the strategies become with people having more health, and also taking it more seriously.
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    #68 Sep 14 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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    Sir Xsarus wrote:
    Ranged do have the advantage of being able to defend a node without having to be right on the node. A NE hunter for example can stealth and interrupt a capture thus delaying the fight long enough for others from his team to respond with help. It'll be interesting to see what the strategies become with people having more health, and also taking it more seriously.

    Camouflage should change that for hunters at the level cap; it won't just be NEs anymore. Smiley: tongue
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    #69 Sep 14 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
    ah, right, I haven't been playing my hunter in the beta as much as my druid, so didn't remember that change.
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    #70 Sep 14 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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    They should really send a developer over to play some Warhammer Online. The Bolster thing is amazing (and they already converted to scaling spells instead of making various ranks anyway).

    Basically, Bolster (for those who haven't played Warhammer Online) increases the "level" of the people in a Scenario (Battleground) to the last level in that bracket. For World of Warcraft, that would mean a level 10 player who joins a Battleground would get bumped to level 19, but only in terms of damage/healing output (since stuff now scales with level instead of ranks, it's even easier to implement), health and mana levels (rage, energy and focus are constant throughout the game, except for talent specs).

    I'm saying this because with these changes to scaling abilities and such, getting into a Battleground early on in a level bracket is just painful. Level 19 Rogues one-shotting people with Ambush (and Backstab), Hunters killing lowbies with their pets and all that. Yes, it takes away some of the fun for those x9 players, but I believe it would allow for a more challenging Battleground. Of course, level 19 Rogues would still have an advantage over a level 10 Rogue, since abilities and such aren't unlocked through Bolster. The higher level players would have more abilities at their disposal, but the lower level players would at least not get one-shot so much.

    Anyway, it might not be that hot an idea, or maybe I'm just suffering from a mild aneurysm after 20 minutes of waiting for the Spirit Healer to resurrect me after getting one-shot by the Rogue camping our graveyard. Just thought it worked very well in Warhammer and figured I'd air the idea here. What do you think?
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    #71 Sep 14 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    Sir Xsarus wrote:
    A NE hunter for example can stealth and interrupt a capture thus delaying the fight long enough for others from his team to respond with help.

    Camouflage should change that for hunters at the level cap; it won't just be NEs anymore.


    The Night Elf shadowmeld racial is incredibly powerful in battlegrounds such as AB and EotS, where estimating forces is 90% of the strategy. There’s no question in my mind that Alliance teams will dominate those ladders, and teams made entirely of NE + rogues + druids will be at the very top.

    Hunters might end up on that list too, depending on how Camoflage is implemented. To quote blue:

    Quote:
    Camouflage is *not* stealth. Your enemies will never wonder where you are. We're trying to use the new Cataclysm water effect to put a shimmering PREDATORy visual on you. It's protection from ranged attacks and it gives you some combat bonuses, but it's not like Shadowmeld or rogue / druid stealth where players can't find you.

    The idea with it is that Hunters are only vulnerable to melee attacks or ranged AEs while they are in the obscured state. If you target a camo hunter or a rogue using Smoke Bomb, you will get an error message saying something like "Target obscured." You can see them and target them, but can't use your attacks. Imagine they are behind a pillar or something. You can try and get off an AE near them or you can move to melee.


    That's not quite what's on the beta now. We'll see what it ends up being.



    Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:02pm by emmitsvenson
    #72 Sep 14 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
    what's the date on that post?

    http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=51755

    wonder what will make it live.

    Edited, Sep 14th 2010 5:54pm by Xsarus
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    #73 Sep 14 2010 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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    "War Games Mode" could be an excellent training and tactics tool regardless of any honor, etc available from the matches. Not to mention fun as **** and a great way to shut up the occasional loud-mouths in the guild.
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    #74 Sep 18 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
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    I've been looking more at the new talents ret paladins get, I think ret isn't going to be that bad if they balance the actual damage properly.

    I do have my concern about the ret "charge", it gives a speed boost so that you can run at your target and catch up with it the same way charge does. The problem I see with it is that it is not so much a charge but a sprint, it can be used to escape.

    Now this is something paladins really didn't have before, because, you see, in the current version if you are killing a paladin he could bubble or heal or something but he has nowhere to go from there, there isn't any escape, you wait out the bubble and finish him. It's not like rogues that just *poof* vanish and you can't kill them, or druids/mages that can escape.

    This can be additionally terrible in combination with Hand of Freedom. Which means they get a sprint to run away AND can't be snared.

    I know, so do Druids, but I'm not exactly happy that Druids do and I don't think we needed to have more classes that do that. And also, there's a chance that this goes into implementation, proves to be as overpowered as it is for the Druid (except everyone pretty much accepts it on the druid by now) and gets a nerf similar to forbearance causing it to become useless for it original intended use.
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    Overlord Theophany wrote:
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    #75 Sep 21 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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    One thing I'm liking about these new rated battlegrounds is that it will encourage people to interact on their servers and form networks between skilled players. The LFM spam will be regrettable but it is what it is. Anything to get away from the random queues. It looks like success in Cataclysm will call for teamwork the likes of which we haven't seen for some time.
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    #76 Sep 21 2010 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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    CatPredator wrote:
    One thing I'm liking about these new rated battlegrounds is that it will encourage people to interact on their servers and form networks between skilled players. The LFM spam will be regrettable but it is what it is. Anything to get away from the random queues. It looks like success in Cataclysm will call for teamwork the likes of which we haven't seen for some time.

    I don't know about your server, but on Draka we've always had a network of the best PvPers.

    I'm not really well-known anymore due to breaks from the game, but when you get into the in-crowd you're basically asked to join some of the top teams on your server.

    Only bad part is when you're far overloaded on one class (rogues on Draka) and you're forced to look outside the in-group.

    But yeah, I agree with you, more people will begin to network as the best PvPers have been for the past 3 years.
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    #77 Sep 22 2010 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    I do have my concern about the ret "charge", it gives a speed boost so that you can run at your target and catch up with it the same way charge does. The problem I see with it is that it is not so much a charge but a sprint, it can be used to escape.


    The talent is already kind of nerfed. It can be dispelled and spell stolen. Also, the talent only triggers when you're more than 15 yards from your target, so it may not be that effective as an escape against most melee classes even in BGs or duels. Against mages it's almost detrimental to cast Judgements. Good luck getting in any auto attacks against them.

    They should buff something for Ret. Dispel mechanics are really going to **** them over in competitive PvP. Pretty much all their self buffs can be stolen/dispelled and their Hand of Light mastery, which doesn't even seem that great for PvE, looks flat out bad in PvP for a class that is easily kited.

    I'd hope they make some changes. Every class needs something to look forward to, even if it's not "your" spec and right now there is some doom and gloom around all 3 of the Pally trees.
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    #78 Sep 22 2010 at 4:16 AM Rating: Good
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    Remove spellsteal! It is just such a stupidly powerful ability, especially with no cooldown and no dispel resistance going into cataclysm.
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    #79 Sep 22 2010 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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    I don't think anyone's going to be using spellsteal to steal a 4 second buff. Spellsteal has a long blue cooldown, and it's a real pain to recharge.
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    #80 Sep 22 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    I don't think anyone's going to be using spellsteal to steal a 4 second buff. Spellsteal has a long blue cooldown, and it's a real pain to recharge


    I'm not sure if this was sarcasm or not. Spellsteal has no cooldown and costs ~650 mana at level 80. You can jack all of a paladins buffs with it and still have over 20k mana to kill him with his own Avenging Wrath and Long Arm of the Law.

    On a related note...Noooooo! Don't take my spellsteal. I don't think removing the spell is warranted just to balance Retadins and Mages in PvP.
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    #81 Sep 22 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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    CatPredator wrote:
    Quote:
    I don't think anyone's going to be using spellsteal to steal a 4 second buff. Spellsteal has a long blue cooldown, and it's a real pain to recharge


    I'm not sure if this was sarcasm or not. Spellsteal has no cooldown and costs ~650 mana at level 80. You can jack all of a paladins buffs with it and still have over 20k mana to kill him with his own Avenging Wrath and Long Arm of the Law.

    On a related note...Noooooo! Don't take my spellsteal. I don't think removing the spell is warranted just to balance Retadins and Mages in PvP.


    Long blue cooldown... think about it. What is long and blue and, when depleted, needs recharging?

    It's a mana bar.

    Pretty sure they'll increase the mana cost in Cata, as they're doing with other dispels, but taking a 4sec buff that increases movement speed by is sort of a waste of mana and a global anyway. It's a 45% movement increase, nothing to write home about; if they're slowed you can still kite them, if they're not then you can't anyway.

    Spellsteal's great for Hand of Freedom and Protection and yeah, AW, but I really doubt you'll see it used in this way.

    Edited, Sep 22nd 2010 2:55pm by Kavekk
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    #82 Sep 22 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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    CatPredator wrote:
    They should buff something for Ret.

    After 2.5-3 years now of being one of the best classes in PvP, no, leave them the **** alone.

    Especially if they're lagging behind other classes.
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    Rogue Hunter
    #83 Sep 22 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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    Haha. Who knows where Ret will actually sit. I've just seen a lot of complaining about Ret vs Mage being broken. Playing a Mage myself, its kind of fun watching some Paladins squirm.


    Quote:
    Pretty sure they'll increase the mana cost in Cata, as they're doing with other dispels


    They've already updated a lot of the spell costs for Cataclysm on wowhead (Dispel is up 2%, Cleanse up 8%, Purge up 6%, etc..) but Spellsteal is still 20%, however all the other dispels get rid of 2 magical effects, where spellsteal is just the one and costs 50% more mana. It might go up still, but it hasn't yet.

    As for the 4 second buff, I don't know that you will actually want to steal it, but you can. Those who try the new fire spec for PvP may find use of it. I know I'm looking forward to running around a few BGs AoEing the **** out of everyone and then dying in a blaze of glory a few times. Might not be that effective in practice but it sounds fun in theory.
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    #84 Sep 22 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
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    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    CatPredator wrote:
    They should buff something for Ret.

    After 2.5-3 years now of being one of the best classes [against rogues] in PvP, no, leave them the @#%^ alone.

    Especially if they're lagging behind other classes.


    Fixed that for you. They were OP for a time. But by now that's as old as history. Get over it.

    They have a bunch of problems but getting a charge and an interrupt really helps.

    They're getting big nerfs in defensive spells, Divine Shield to 8 seconds is ok IMO. I would still say that the damage reduction could be increased a bit. At least what I felt about the bubble in WotLK was that the damage reduction should have been more than 50%.

    Removing magic cleanse for ret, I don't know. It doesn't seem so bad if they get charge and hand of freedom is still there. The real reason why you needed it was because you didn't get charge.

    The new seals look ok, I will be fine if the DPS on seal of justice is good enough to make it a DPS seal.

    Overall I'm not pesimistic about how ret is coming out. I can see lots of improvement.

    I still don't like the mechanic of this charge, for the reasons I said and also because it's on an 8 seconds cooldown. You use it, and use it over and over again every 8 seconds.

    Comparing.
    Blink has a 15 second cooldown.
    Warlock tele has 30 second cooldown.
    Hunter Disengage has 25 sec.
    Arms warrior 25 and 30 sec c/ds.
    Fury 20 and 30 sec.
    Prot 15 and 30 sec.
    Feral 15 and 30.

    Divine Protection is another where I didn't like the change. What I think about it is that it should have been kept as it is in Wotlk and just removed from Forbearance. One of the good things about this class was that when you press a button it did something very visible. Halving the cooldown and halving the effect isn't a good trade in that the effect becomes invisible and it stops being fun.


    Edited, Sep 22nd 2010 5:15pm by xorq
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    2- They are NOT advocacy. They are a perspective.

    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    Insults aren't needed
    #85 Sep 22 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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    xorq wrote:
    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    CatPredator wrote:
    They should buff something for Ret.

    After 2.5-3 years now of being one of the best classes [against rogues] in PvP, no, leave them the @#%^ alone.

    Especially if they're lagging behind other classes.


    Fixed that for you. They were OP for a time. But by now that's as old as history. Get over it.

    No, you misunderstood me. Paladins as a CLASS are the most represented in every bracket. Hence me being okay with one of their specs sucking.
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    #86 Sep 23 2010 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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    1,609 posts
    Yep, holy has been consistantly superb, ret had it's moments of glory and protret was powerful throughout S8. If you don't mind switching specs pallies are a great main for pvp.

    As for the pally charge, it's really weak. You have to be over 15 yards away from the target to proc it and your judgement needs to be off cooldown (not good news for clutch speed boosts). Only a 40% speed boost so it wont close distance that quickly, considering other classes will have at least 8% boots increase, and plenty of gap making abilities to counter it. I'm gonna wait until devs have finished balancing numbers and tweaking everything then we'll see how ret looks.
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    #87 Sep 23 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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    ArtemisEnteri wrote:
    Yep, holy has been consistantly superb, ret had it's moments of glory and protret was powerful throughout S8. If you don't mind switching specs pallies are a great main for pvp.


    I don't think paladins are going to be overrepresented as healers in Cata. It's not a holy nerf, it's just that now all of the healers will dispel magic. I'm pretty sure the favorites will be the resto druid which now becomes a resto druid with magic dispell and the disc priest.

    They will still have it's niche in that warriors tend to be terrible in 2v2s unless their healer is a paladin. So even if they turned out to be weaker PvP healers than Druids and Priests warriors are still going to look for Pally heals.

    Quote:

    As for the pally charge, it's really weak. You have to be over 15 yards away from the target to proc it and your judgement needs to be off cooldown (not good news for clutch speed boosts). Only a 40% speed boost so it wont close distance that quickly, considering other classes will have at least 8% boots increase, and plenty of gap making abilities to counter it. I'm gonna wait until devs have finished balancing numbers and tweaking everything then we'll see how ret looks.


    That could also be part of the problem. If it works in a way it shouldn't, and in addition it doesn't work the way it should, it's a bad thing.

    The other classes 8% boots increase is negated by the new version of seal of justice. As well as any speed effect. Pursuit of justice makes the Paladin walk faster. So I consider that part fixed if the seal does enough DPS to be a dps seal. I'm not getting into actual numbers because numbers are still TBD.

    However the part about the charge is still weird. It's a spell you spam. It does have it's downside when compared to charge from ferals and warriors because it's not a spell you save until the moment you see blink. So a mage can blink just after you judge and you have 8 sec c/d. On the other hand, if you do save it for blink, mage blinks and you charge, and you can charge again in 8 seconds, and charge again when he blinks again. You get to charge every blink and 1 extra charge between his blinks.

    Overall I see the addition of a charge as a needed fix, it's just it has to work and not be abusable for completely different purposes.

    Edited, Sep 23rd 2010 2:23pm by xorq
    ____________________________
    NOTE: I may post comments about my like/dislike/approval/disapproval of game features.
    1- They are NOT a complaint. They are a perspective.
    2- They are NOT advocacy. They are a perspective.

    Overlord Theophany wrote:
    Insults aren't needed
    #88 Sep 23 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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    100 posts
    Quote:
    On the other hand, if you do save it for blink, mage blinks and you charge, and you can charge again in 8 seconds, and charge again when he blinks again. You get to charge every blink and 1 extra charge between his blinks.


    Except Blink will increase run speed by 70% for 3 seconds, and LAotL doesn't remove snares. It's most problematic with mages though. It should be better against other classes and even in PvE on fights where mobility is an issue.
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    #89 Sep 24 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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    It's nothing like a charge though. Charge brings you to your target no questions asked and you can snare them etc. Long arm of the law makes you run 40% faster (doesn't stack with PoJ) and you aren't immune to slowing effects during its duration.

    The cool thing about it is that in BGs if you are quick at switching targets at various distances from you it should be up constantly unless you are busy bursting someone, and then if they get signifigant distance you can speed boost a litle. It's definately something the spec needed.

    I just heard also that arms warriors can now pummel in battle stance, nice change. I guess it is partially to make up for the loss of unrelenting assault.
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    Ret Paladin: Rosencrantz

    Subtlety Rogue: Tenshi
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