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Level 80 pvp 101 questions (was forum=21)Follow

#1 Aug 24 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Pretty simple -

Resilience - what's the "min" for successful BGs and Arena for cloth and melees (is there even a difference?) and is there a cap or point of diminishing returns?

Melee - focus on hit, AP, expertise, haste or crit?

Casters - hit, SP, SPen, crit or haste (I assume MP5 is pretty moot considering the lifespan of a clothy in PvP)?

AGI users - focus on AGI (does the bonus dodge from AGI make a difference) or crit when given the choice?

STR users - focus on STR, AGI or crit?

INT users - INT, SP or crit?

STA all - stack it or incidental?

Weapon chants - best/prefered for the various classes (or specs if there's multiple good PvP ones for each class)

Specs - best or worse (in case two are good but one sucks) for each class

Anything that I missed - let' have a PvP gear/stats 101 here?
#2 Aug 24 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know where Feral Druids fit in, but I heard people mention that 600 resilience for them is enough, with agility gems and the DPS meta. Personally I'm running some 900 resilience with the DPS meta and stamina/resilience gems. I can still burst down someone pretty fast due to the various bleeds I have and the stamina and resilience means I can take a royal beating before I fold.

I've had great success with that setup in Battlegrounds. Well, and World PvP, if that counts.

My Feral Druid PvP build.

Results may vary.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 4:35am by Mazra
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#3 Aug 24 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll work on answers when I get home. Typing all that out on my iPad would be rough.
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#4 Aug 24 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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From a hunters point of view I'm pretty sure it's lots of agi and some spell pen. I think you need around 120 or so spell pen maybe to get past some of the caster spells and what not.
#5 Aug 24 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
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From a hunters point of view I'm pretty sure it's lots of agi and some spell pen. I think you need around 120 or so spell pen maybe to get past some of the caster spells and what not.

For hunters you need 75 spell pen to pass resistances. http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=145196 explains it all if you have any questions. Other than that it's 5% hit and then stack agility or agility and crit if you want socket bonuses.

This is the talent build I use for PvP. Might not be the best one, but provides decent survivablity, CC, and damage.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#cZ0eVooGdGhsguVoe0Ibob:fk0z0M
#6 Aug 24 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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rusttle wrote:
Pretty simple -

Resilience - what's the "min" for successful BGs and Arena for cloth and melees (is there even a difference?) and is there a cap or point of diminishing returns?

Melee - focus on hit, AP, expertise, haste or crit?

Casters - hit, SP, SPen, crit or haste (I assume MP5 is pretty moot considering the lifespan of a clothy in PvP)?

AGI users - focus on AGI (does the bonus dodge from AGI make a difference) or crit when given the choice?

STR users - focus on STR, AGI or crit?

INT users - INT, SP or crit?

STA all - stack it or incidental?

Weapon chants - best/prefered for the various classes (or specs if there's multiple good PvP ones for each class)

Specs - best or worse (in case two are good but one sucks) for each class

Anything that I missed - let' have a PvP gear/stats 101 here?

Here we go, I'll answer for rogues at the very least (though these answers can be found in the PvP thread in my sig).

For rogues, stack AP in WotLK. In Cata that will change to Agi, but for now, AP. NEVER EVER EVER crit.

900 resil seems to be the bare minimum needed to have decent survivability; other classes may need more or less depending on survivability, but I've only felt comfortable with 900+ and preferably 1000+.

Basically you're looking at socketing red gems almost exclusively no matter what your class. Spell casting classes will want 75 spell pen in some form, and obviously every class but healers needs hit in order to hit (5% for melee, don't remember what it is offhand for casters, since I've never PvPed as one), but otherwise red gems for spell damage, str, AP, etc.

ArP is generally not stacked except for Shadowdance rogues (and then only at a certain gear level).

All melee are going to want Berzerking on their weapons.

A great resource for seeing what top players are using is SK-Gaming. That site shows the top arena players in each class worldwide and allows you to filter by class and spec, and see their armories.
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#7 Aug 25 2010 at 1:27 AM Rating: Good
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Hit is technically 4% for casters against same level mobs, ie PvP.

Some racials add to the amount of hit needed for spells but it maxes at 6%.

Priests for sure need to get at least 4% hit for offensive dispelling. Same deal for any one else who is primarily healing but needs to offensively dispel.

Same idea goes for healers and spell pen. Spell Pen is useful up to 130 due to pally auras and priestly SP but is really hard to achieve without a high rating.

If you only heal and never offensively dispel or help apply pressure to kill enemies then obviously the stats are useless.

Many healers do dispel enemies and help attack so getting hit/SpPe capped is a good thing. Especially for disc priests in my experience.

Having a MD miss or get resisted when trying to remove an Ice Block or bubble to force a kill is lame and can easily turn a match against you.

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#8 Aug 25 2010 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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My usual disclaimer: I'm not a PVP superhero, I can just answer from my own experiences.

rusttle wrote:
Resilience - what's the "min" for successful BGs and Arena for cloth and melees (is there even a difference?) and is there a cap or point of diminishing returns?


I wear cloth. I noticed a significant boost to survivability at around 800. I got comfortable at around 1000. Now I have 1276 and I have a lot of margin for error to be stupid, move slowly, or play with one hand while eating ice cream. I just redid my whole UI at the same time as getting a new mouse, so I don't know where any of my buttons or abilities are. I was in AB the other day and even with that enormous handicap, two rogues couldn't kill me. They sucked, but still.


rusttle wrote:
Casters - hit, SP, SPen, crit or haste (I assume MP5 is pretty moot considering the lifespan of a clothy in PvP)?


Hit and spell pen to whatever targets I'm shooting for first. Then Spellpower. This is controversial and I wouldn't recommend it for everyone, but I choose the spirit/MP5 offpieces over crit or haste. Your mana pool in PVP gear is horrid and with a lot of resilience you become pretty hard to kill. With my setup I'm not the most powerful healer on the block, but I can outlast most people I encounter, which I tend to enjoy more than big numbers. In a battleground I generally only die if I get focused by multiple enemies or I do something stupid, I don't run out of mana before the other team's healers, and I very, very rarely have to stop to drink. And with talents I've still got 19.2% Holy crit, which isn't spectacular but works fine.


rusttle wrote:
INT users - INT, SP or crit?


This may not be the same for everyone but for me, spellpower first. Healing is still reduced by 10% in battlegrounds and I need some power to make up for it.


rusttle wrote:
Specs - best or worse (in case two are good but one sucks) for each class


Disc priest with Searing Light and Smite glyph = crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women.
#9 Aug 25 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Casters - hit, SP, SPen, crit or haste (I assume MP5 is pretty moot considering the lifespan of a clothy in PvP)?


1. Cap hit. Because you don't want your CC/cooldown spells to "miss".
2. PEWWWW PEWWWWW. I pick haste and spell about evenly and 105 spell pen. I don't cap spell pen, but 105 does it for me.

Quote:
AGI users - focus on AGI (does the bonus dodge from AGI make a difference) or crit when given the choice?

STR users - focus on STR, AGI or crit?

INT users - INT, SP or crit?

STA all - stack it or incidental?


You have to balance offensive stats vs defensive stats.

If you're geared almost exclussively in resil gear (recommended) you already have enough defensive stats and should only add offensive stats. You may even switch a few slots to non-resil gear for added offensive stats if you feel you need more offensive stats.

If for some reason you are creating a partial set to only cover a limited number of slots and combine it with your existing ICC25H gear then you might want to enchant/socket your resil items with resil and stamina until you meet about 1000 resil and get above 25K hp.

In PvP you generally want to stack durability defensive stats over avoidance defensive stats. The durability defensive stats are stamina, resil, spellresist and armor. If you have access to resil, go resil before stamina, if for whatever reason you don't have access to resil (playing lower bracket for example) then stamina is the close substitute for resil.

Quote:
Weapon chants - best/prefered for the various classes (or specs if there's multiple good PvP ones for each class)


Offensive caster = Black Magic.

Quote:
Specs - best or worse (in case two are good but one sucks) for each class


This depends a lot on your strategic scenario.

In 2v2 you'll want some hybrid healer-dps or healer-tank specs while in larger scale such as 5v5 or bgs you'll want more dedicated specs and may even have less common roles such as tanks.

For Warlocks:

Affliction PvP and Destro PvP are good at every scenario while deep Demo is only good at 5v5 and BG. Demo is pretty decent at 1v1 too.

The differences between arena and bg make it so that a BG specialized spec may have talents that may seem retarded for arena. In a BG the enemy team will have all classes, and certain classes are a magnet to certain other classes and need to consider the need to overcome that obstacle.

For example, for my BG spec I take Demonic Brutality because it helps a lot against rogues and don't take Improved Health Funnel because it's not needed in BG. For arena this isn't very good, but in BGs all teams will have rogues and all rogues will focus on me. (only 2 specs so no PvE).

Which reminds me that I have a question about Rogues... if anyone knows. I haven't been able to sap beasts yet, but I have seen lots sapped feral druids in BGs. How do they do it?


Edited, Aug 25th 2010 5:06pm by xorq

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 6:46pm by xorq
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#10 Aug 25 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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You get a new rank of sap at lv 74 or so that affects almost everything.

As for what stats you want, the mix depends on so many things, like your spec and even what arena comp you are in. Remember however that arena teams are a sum of their parts. You can stack 1400 resilience as a healer and you will be a nigh unkillable titan but the same isn't true of your 900 res rogue, and because you gemmed and chanted for res maybe your spells wont have the oomph to keep him alive if he gets feared into a bad place and spellcleaved for a few seconds.

For my characters, i tend to use the bare minimum resilience i think is acceptable and then gem stuff like spellpower and haste. Haste is so godly for offensive casters and priests since you get faster global cooldown timers, you can dispel at the speed of light. On my holy pally though, i like gemming straight spellpower because it boosts sacred shield, and much of my healing is instant (judgement of light, holy shock, instant flashes).
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