WoD Cinematic Reveal and Release Date LivestreamFollow

God, Zuckerberg up there was annoying.

Trailer was cool.

November 13th.

The Watters guy was annoying the entire time. Mike was super awkward and didn't know what to do with his body while reading deadpan off the teleprompter. The animated short thing was reasonably good but not mind blowing. The interview was terrible, and they basically said nothing that we didn't already know. The content preview had more stuff than I expected and I was glad to see how many dungeons they've got. The cinematic was of expected quality, but I agree that it didn't have the "oomph" or epicness of some past trailers. Then again, we don't have a big baddie of the caliber of Arthas or Illidan here, so I guess I shouldn't hold it to the same standard.

The hood is leftover from the prequel comic Gul'dan and the Stranger which directly leads to the cinematic.

The prepatch release date hasn't been announced, but it's traditionally about one month before the expansion launch. Looking like October 14th, with a PTR going live soon.

Well, I guess I know when I'm coming back to WoW for a month or two. I always like to play for a bit around expansion releases.

They should have offered a discount for moving multiple characters years ago. The ugly face of greed I guess.

Holy retcon Batman.

SpoilerGrom was so eager to drink Mannoroth's blood he literally cut in line ahead of the Warchief of the Horde, which was an extremely bold statement. And then...

line from Rise of the Horde wrote:

Grom did not hesitate. He brought the cup to his lips and drank deeply.

Literally no persuasion. Gul'Dan essentially held up the cup and asks "Who wants to be first to pledge himself to the cause," looks towards the Warchief, and then Grom strolls up and cuts in line, drinking with no hesitation.

This might seem like a small retcon, but it's huge. Durotan refused to let his clan drink Mannoroth's blood, and he alone was the only one to hesistate (his clan was angry with him). That led to his assassination, which was fundamental to the entire story of Thrall's beginnings, his rise as the first Shaman to be accepted by the spirits since they first began consorting with demons, and eventual ascent to Warchief.

The blood was offered as a choice, not a requirement. Orgrim was the only one besides Durotan to refuse.

Oh, also, Mannoroth wasn't there. As in, the orcs had no clue what they were getting into. They didn't know what was in that chalice until it was far too late.

The cinematic was gorgeous, but holy crap...

My only hope is that this was the effect of Garrosh consorting with Grom long before this point. Still, Mannoroth being there makes no sense. And that would seem to be an important part of any plan to rebel against Warchief Blackhand.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

This is an alternate timeline in the sense of Garrosh traveling to a parallel universe sort of thing, and then backwards in that universe, and NOT a case of him traveling backwards in time in his own universe and then CAUSING a parallel timeline branch to form by influencing events?

Yeah.... Yeah, no. I can't do it. I just can't.

I generally find time travel stories to be really, really weak to begin with. But that... that's just... just no.

I particularly love the idea that it's not just a parallel timeline, but it's a timeline just parallel enough that everything is the same, except Mannoroth was in a position to be easily assassinated before the Orcs were corrupted completely.

Y'know... because going back to when they were corrupted at all wouldn't have made any sense.

Oh you're preaching to the choir. Even in a fantasy fiction universe with Orcs, talking Cows, and Kung Fu Panda's, to say that this story line is ludicrous isn't an understatement, it is a sign that our language does not have a proper word in its lexicon to encapsulate how ridiculous the story is. That being said, I felt strongly about the obvious pandering of an asian themed expac. I ended up enjoying it a lot. So as long as the raid content is interesting and they don't bork healing too badly I will give them a pass.

It is a shame that they refused to advance the story. But let's be honest, I never played Diablo or Warcraft for the lore or story.

Yeah, that was my exact first thought. It was actually along the lines of "Holy crap, did he just say that?"

But then again, what else are they going to do? Admit that the story is horribly convoluted? They have to play ignorant.


As for the scene itself, even if Mannoroth wasn't in plain sight, it's still a problem. The Orcs HAD to fall to deception for the plot to work. It's fundamental to their racial characterization. Orcs, when confronted with a threat, fight. Their flight response is pretty much nothing. And when EVERY Orcish hero is all together, from Orgrim to Hellscream? Good luck, Mannoroth.

The minute Grom engaged Mannoroth, it would have been an act of cowardice for others to back down. They'd have to prove their strength.


The bigger issue here, though, is Grom KNOWING what the blood would do (Mannoroth or no Mannoroth), and it's still a big retcon for Grom to not just be confidently seizing that chalice.

SpoilerI mean, it's a shame, because it really diminishes his story. Killing Mannoroth in the main story line meant something. Grom was the first Orc to fall under Mannoroth's control, he was a hero among his people, and he effectively led them into giving up their freedom (even if he didn't know what he was doing).

Grom's "We are free" is so poignant because he was finally able to right the wrong he symbolically led his people into.

But if you change that, Grom becomes weak. He's a pushover, not a hero to his people. And what about his second corruption? His character just becomes weaker. He's not a warrior, he's just a meek character who can't stand on his own.

I just really don't like it.

That exact same scene, with Grom confidently and eagerly going up to drink the blood, to be saved by Garrosh' intervention, would have been so much more emotionally powerful. But they want to paint Grom as someone who didn't really want to consort with demons.

What they're trying to do is raise sympathy for Garrosh and the villains by trying to get the audience to see Garrosh as a more-militant version of Durotan. It would have been better if they just treated the character like he's always been.

I with Fish here.
If someone from the future popped into your world now, and told you things about how your life went to **************** and when, and when the time came you just went with it knowing you had a chance to change, you would not?

Big spoil here:
SpoilerYou all do know Garrosh isn't around for this xpack? Thrall Kills him.
and then: **Also Ner'zhul is killed in Alliance questing around level 92, so no Lich King revival; without being screwed by Kil'jaeden, his Shadowmoon clan is pressured into the Iron Horde, and they start dabbling with void magics, much like the questline in Netherstorm with the ethereals. Gul'dan is killed in an instance dungeon.** (from some one in beta, or has info).

Anyways here is how I see the "time" line.

Old orc history > WC > 2 > 3 > WoW > BC >LK >Cata >MoP >*>Today.

Garrosh does what he does at the "*", goes ALL the way back and changed Old Orc History by telling info. Iron Horde is made, and they are going/do attempt to use the portal to open a Time Portal that brings them to Today.
But it is Today in our universe, so it is a cross-universe-time-portal.

A few things:

That line, "Everything" could be interpreted as meaning anything. I think the most likely interpretation would be to take it as meaning "Be prepared to give everything for the Horde," especially since there was a lot of patriotism running through this newly formed Horde. "For the Horde!" was tossed around a lot in that book.

Second, of course the tone is different. By this point, Garrosh has been around for a while, and has informed all the orcs of the ancestor deception. At this point, the orcs are probably hostile to Gul'dan and his warlocks, though they are keeping it hidden in order to let things play out and for Mannoroth to reveal himself. They have been told what it would mean to drink the blood.

Garrosh changes everything. Of course things went differently than in the book.

Edited, Aug 16th 2014 7:05pm by IDrownFish

That's how I understood it, too. Do we know how long he has been with Grom and his people before the cinematic takes place?

Check the BeanX thread, if you have not yet. I'm listening to the long youtube post that is (currently) the last post. Seems to be doing an OK job at "setting" up what is going to take place.
Video was made a year ago tho.

Edited, Aug 17th 2014 10:25am by Sandinmygum