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Power Leveling through BlizzardFollow

#1 Jan 17 2014 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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Although a free level 90 character with the purchase of WoD was mentioned, apparently, Blizzard will also be selling level 90 boosts 'soon'.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/01/17/pre-purchase-warlords-of-draenor-get-a-level-90-immediately.aspx

"Perhaps even more interesting, the announcement also mentions that players will be able to purchase additional level 90 boosts directly, without having to mess around with additional copies, accounts, and transfersl"
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#2 Jan 17 2014 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I'm not okay with this.
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#3 Jan 17 2014 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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Meh, they'll get a Level 90 with no crafts (except for First Aid), very little money (probably what, 100g?), small bags (probably 16 slot ones that sell for 10g on most servers), and dungeon-quality blues. Probably 463. Maybe 450. I doubt it'd be 476.

At best, they'd be fast-forwarding about what, 80 hours or so?

I doubt it would seriously make THAT much of an impact upon the game.

The data I'm using for my guesses is based upon the "Free 80" you get out of Scroll of Resurrection.

Edited, Jan 17th 2014 8:16pm by Lyrailis

Edited, Jan 17th 2014 8:16pm by Lyrailis
#4 Jan 17 2014 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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I'm inclined to say it would be more than 80 for any reasonable calculation. But even then, they're selling a key to bypass 3 and a half DAYS of play time. Assuming 3 hours of play a day, that's 27 days.

That's an insane boon to anyone willing to pay for it. The "everyone gets one free 90" thing was fine, because it applied to EVERYONE.

Because, remember, they don't just save time, they are (in effect) given the gift of ADDITIONAL time. If two players want a new Pally healer, because they made some awesome changes and such, and one person pays for the straight-to-90 path, then they are at least 3 weeks ahead of the other player in content. 3 weeks ahead in gearing, in rep farms, etc. Maybe their crafts are at 0, but they're going to have 3 weeks of daily quest gold at the new content level to get them to cap pretty **** quickly... and it's not like crafts are as big a factor in BiS now as they used to be.

But that's only half the problem. The other factor here is that the leveling content is pretty much just broken at this point. They are essentially offering an item that lets you bypass legitimately bad content, but forcing you to pay for it.

If you wanted a new character, you'd be almost crazy to NOT pay for this buff. And that's something I take serious issue with.
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#5 Jan 17 2014 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
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Can you imagine doing any group activity where one player makes a mistake, how long before he's accused of buying his class and told to "l2play." With the community already questionable, this might be one more negative aspect to it.

Very curious as to how this pans out. Again, the boost might be available 'soon', so it might go live before WoD.
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#6 Jan 18 2014 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's simply too much old content to keep grinding through. With heirlooms, rested XP, RaF, SoR, multi-boxing and all the other ways to take leveling shortcuts, I just don't see this as a significant change. Pay for a month of game time and get power leveled by friends, or spare them the grind and jump right in. As a positive note, it may make power leveling services a harder sell.
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#7 Jan 18 2014 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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for me personally Im not thrilled with this idea, for a couple of reasons. I did the boost this on my second acct and boosted a pally to what was it 85 at the time? And im totally lost to many spells/abilities which talents to take(thankfully in this case we dont have the trees anymore)? What is the rotation? How do i dps proper with this guy? I have a level 30 ish pally that i play but there is a big jump from that. I know the basics but i wont take my 85 pally into a dungeon i would be booted with the quickness, even if i had the proper gear. So i dont play him at all he is covered in cobwebs.

Now lets look at tanks. I have a warrior and a DK at max level both of which i will never tank i did it in the lower levels but not past say 80 or so. im a dps kinda player. I can tank and play a healer at the lower levels in dungeons but past 80 things change a lot in dungeons it seems. I suppose my point is that with these these boost to 90 or whatever its going to be there are going to be a ton of people in PUGS pulling thier hair out, and lots of tanks dropping like flies in LFR.

Im a believer in learning and growing with your class, from the begining. Of course there are factors that apply, like you may boost a 2nd hunter or something on another acct. fine i guess.I think that sort of thing will be the majority At least i hope that will be the majority. But there will be a big jump in healers and tanks that will bring down heroic groups and LFR groups.
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#8 Jan 18 2014 at 8:56 AM Rating: Excellent
I'm ok with the new insta-90. It only gets to be used once. I'm also ok with there being an option to buy it more than once. Or even a super buff that last you until an XX level (Like maybe one dungeon's worth of EXP would level you 3-4 times, basically allowing you to level up a class in 10-12 hours).

I used the insta-80 and have never played the class. It was a class I was going to try out, had leveled her to like 15 or so and decided to use the boost so I could just use her as a bank-alt. And then later I PLed Inscription on her. Here she is (NSFWish, her name is an abbreviation of another name that just happens to mean something else), still in the same gear they give you when you boost. Gear shows up as green, but I thought it was Blue or Purple when it was 1st gave. You also got a few bags, I do not think cooking and 1st aid were leveled (Like DKs start off with 1st Aid leveled up some).

I am A.O.K with the insta-90. Have friends who may join the game for the 1st time. They may wish to skip ahead after getting a few hours in to learn the basics. I would probably use on another class I've never played but kind of like to have (I'm thinking mage, as I still want to actually play a Priest and a Paladin someday). Leveling is just as boring now as it was on my 2nd-6th characters. I'm having a real hard time even leveling my new druid who is now lv 43, because I HATE lvls 40-58.

Why join a game to play with friends if 1st you have to spend 2-3 weeks of casual play to get to their levels? I mean I would roll new toons (as would 2 others) to play with, but holy **** we have already done that so many times. Skip them to 90, get the show on the road. **** yes. If/when they decide to level another character, they will then have to decide: buy this other option or actually see what you missed/skipped over.
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#9 Jan 18 2014 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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My issue is compound.

1. The ability to pay for a premium service that is a pretty massive advantage to players (essentially 1-2 months of additional time at cap).
2. The fact that this is being used to bypass bad content. Bad content motivates people to purchase the boost, and punishes those that don't. That not only ensures they aren't going to fix the problem, but adds an incentive to NOT fixing it.

If Blizzard wanted to say "screw it, the content isn't going to be repairable at this point - fast track it" they could put an in-game mechanism in place for it. Add a quest chain somewhere near endgame that lets you create level 90 characters, so people who have experienced the content don't need to do it again. And new players buying WoD get a free 90, so it's not forcing them to experience it anyway.

But I'm not okay with it being a P2W item (which it legitimately is - there's no other term that would fit an item that lets one player access content a month or more earlier than another player).

Frankly, that's NOT different from selling actual gear in practice. Assuming they play the same amount, the player who buys the boost is going to have an additional month or two of gearing padding their ilvls compared to the player who didn't pony up the cash. Unless the luck rate for drops between them is INSANELY skewed, they will not have the same level performance until they are both BiS. There's no way that's not P2W.

Leveling content is in effect a gating mechanism here, and they're selling a premium item that lets some people bypass a 1-2 month gate.

That's just ridiculous.
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#10 Jan 18 2014 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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The time investment to bring a new character to 90 is too great at this point, even with heirlooms and such, which not everyone has. For a new player who doesn't know the most efficient way to level, doesn't have money for gear, and can barely get a dungeon, you're probably looking at 2+ months of casual play with nobody around to talk to/play with. For someone who has been playing for years and has likely seen the content more times than they can count, it's a question of whether or not that new toon is worth redoing all the content they don't like, since leveling is pretty linear. I loved Wrath, I loved the zones, the story, the art, the quests, I loved it all, but I've done it so many times I have to force myself to sit down and play through it. BC, which I didn't like, and I've played through even more times than Wrath, has actually stopped me from playing toons because I don't want to go through it again. I can go from 58 to 68 just in HFP, but I absolutely **** hate it.

In the past few months I've dumped over $250 transferring toons to a new server simply because I couldn't stomach leveling another **** toon. I've leveled at least 40 in my WoW history, and there are only 1 or 2 classes that I enjoy enough to stomach doing it again. A straight boost to 90 will be a deciding factor as to whether or not I stick around, and it will also be a deciding factor as to whether or not new players join the game, and whether or not lapsed accounts return. If Blizzard doesn't want to continue hemorrhaging players with no hope of new ones, it's the only option they have.
#11 Jan 18 2014 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:

Frankly, that's NOT different from selling actual gear in practice. Assuming they play the same amount, the player who buys the boost is going to have an additional month or two of gearing padding their ilvls compared to the player who didn't pony up the cash. Unless the luck rate for drops between them is INSANELY skewed, they will not have the same level performance until they are both BiS. There's no way that's not P2W.

Leveling content is in effect a gating mechanism here, and they're selling a premium item that lets some people bypass a 1-2 month gate.

That's just ridiculous.


Selling gear and paying to level to 90 is nowhere near the same thing.

Also I'm not sure where you think there's some competition here, but you're making up an argument to support you side that simply doesn't exist. It's a boost to 90, not a boost to top tier raiding capability. If you don't already have a toon at 90 at this point, you clearly aren't in a position to be competitive anyway.
#12 Jan 18 2014 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wish they had insta-85s back when I did a lot of my alts (I have 22 characters on 2 servers, all Level 90).

The last 5-6 were a complete pain but I did it because I needed the crafts, or because Pandaren/Monks were added and I wanted a Panda Monk..... but when I got to 58 I was like "Ugh.....I......hate.....outland........"

Then I got to Northrend and I was like "Hey, mom how about you let me use your character to haul mine through dungeons?"

From 58 to 78, I leveled my Pandaren Monks solely by using her Paladin to drag my pandas through 5mans and I did the same for her Pandaren Monks.

That, and Cooking/Fishing Dailies in SW/Org. And the Darkmoon Faire quests.

Yes, the questing experience is horrible. But how exactly are you going to change that and make it NOT horrible? Do you have any suggestions that don't involve spending 2-3 weeks of grinding? When you're a dude with Lv90s and you want to get a friend to start WoW... they're gonna be like "Man I wish we could have fun doing the REAL content!" and you're going to be going "Ugh... leveling a new character sucks, I already did all this several times."

It is a Lose-Lose for both people involved.

Now, said friend can boost to 90, you take em out and you teach them how to play the game for a few hours and then you jump right into Heroics, Reps, Lv90 Dailies, etc.

Beats slogging around in Lv10, 20, 50, 60, 80 etc areas for weeks.
#13 Jan 18 2014 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:

Frankly, that's NOT different from selling actual gear in practice. Assuming they play the same amount, the player who buys the boost is going to have an additional month or two of gearing padding their ilvls compared to the player who didn't pony up the cash. Unless the luck rate for drops between them is INSANELY skewed, they will not have the same level performance until they are both BiS. There's no way that's not P2W.

Leveling content is in effect a gating mechanism here, and they're selling a premium item that lets some people bypass a 1-2 month gate.

That's just ridiculous.


Selling gear and paying to level to 90 is nowhere near the same thing.

Also I'm not sure where you think there's some competition here, but you're making up an argument to support you side that simply doesn't exist. It's a boost to 90, not a boost to top tier raiding capability. If you don't already have a toon at 90 at this point, you clearly aren't in a position to be competitive anyway.


If one player is able to access content 2 months faster than another player, when putting the same time and effort into playing the game as the other, simply because they payed to bypass content, then yes, it's still a P2W purchase.

Quote:
The time investment to bring a new character to 90 is too great at this point, even with heirlooms and such, which not everyone has.


I agree with you that this is a serious problem. It's also a problem that should be solved. And it's absolutely ridiculous for them to use this problem as a motivator to make an additional purchase to access content that doesn't suck.

Because that's exactly what this is. They COULD go ahead and multiply experience awards for quests/mobs under level 90 by 10x and expedite the leveling process. They COULD go ahead and make a "straight to 90" path built into the game, so that the only people who are accessing the broken content are the ones who actually want to. They COULD have made character creation default to level 90 for anyone who owns WoD.

But instead they're using this serious design flaw to sell what is, in every way, a P2W item.

Quote:
Also I'm not sure where you think there's some competition here, but you're making up an argument to support you side that simply doesn't exist. It's a boost to 90, not a boost to top tier raiding capability. If you don't already have a toon at 90 at this point, you clearly aren't in a position to be competitive anyway.


Everyone who is purchasing WoD is getting a free 90, which means that this service is only going to be interesting to people who want ANOTHER toon to cap, which makes it highly likely that they're the type of player who intends to access level-capped content with that new level 95 character.

And because it takes a time investment to level characters, which not only means 2 months invested into a new character, but also a whole lot of time that COULD have been used accessing endgame content on their current level-capped toon (because, again, they're already getting a free one, not to mention whatever toon they already had).

So, yes, it's an EXTREMELY valid scenario. And it's obvious that these don't need to be concurrent events for the point to be valid. What Blizzard is selling is the ability to shave 2 MONTHS of play time off of the gating period to access endgame. That's what this product is. That's what they've comodified here.

And because they've comodified it, it now has a direct value for the players regardless of whether or not they're purchasing this service. So, yes, it's a valid example. Because the player who does not purchase it is, in every way, the loser. They're now paying $30, and two months worth of game time, to access content that someone else pays $15+the service fee+ very little game time to access.

Yeah, if they're a SUPER hardcore player, and the other person is SUPER casual, they might end up accessing hardcore content in about the same amount of time. But that's incredibly unlikely for the vast majority of WoW players.



[EDIT]

To be clear, if the fix to the broken leveling is to allow players to bypass it, I have no problem with that. What I DO have a problem with is them allowing people to bypass broken content by paying an additional fee.

The fact that the leveling experience is terrible now is a design flaw, and it's absolutely unacceptable for them to be using that as leverage to get people to pay for an "optional" service, when the alternative is to spend literal days

If they still want people in those zones, running content, then they need to make quests stay current way longer, vastly increase experience returns for quests/kills, etc. I should be able to skip zones entirely when moving between questing tiers - go from Darnassus straight to Ashenvale, etc. The breadcrumb quests exist in lower-level towns anyway. If they cut the time investment from 80 hours down to 10 to hit 90, then there's no need for a paid service. That's not a bad investment at all.

The reality here is that they're much happier using that slog to motivate players to spend more. And that's a **** business model, and it's insulting game design. This is more egregious, to me, than TOR only giving F2P players 1 action bar, originally.

Edited, Jan 18th 2014 2:16pm by idiggory
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#14 Jan 18 2014 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
If one player is able to access content 2 months faster than another player, when putting the same time and effort into playing the game as the other, simply because they payed to bypass content, then yes, it's still a P2W purchase.


The purchase isn't providing the purchaser anything that the non-purchaser cannot obtain, meaning it isn't P2W. And since these two players aren't in competition, the P2W argument is not only pointless, it's simply wrong.


idoggory wrote:
I agree with you that this is a serious problem. It's also a problem that should be solved. And it's absolutely ridiculous for them to use this problem as a motivator to make an additional purchase to access content that doesn't suck.

Because that's exactly what this is. They COULD go ahead and multiply experience awards for quests/mobs under level 90 by 10x and expedite the leveling process. They COULD go ahead and make a "straight to 90" path built into the game, so that the only people who are accessing the broken content are the ones who actually want to. They COULD have made character creation default to level 90 for anyone who owns WoD.


It's not a problem in a sense that it needs to be fixed, it's a problem in a sense that it's a progression style game that's showing its age. You could speed up XP, but to what extent? Eventually you speed up XP to the point that forcing people through the content no longer has a point. And if it's sped up enough, you lose the connection between zones and quest hubs until people are just mindlessly wandering around looking for questgivers.

You could add a "Quest to 90" like you mentioned. And this would ensure that the only people who play the old content are the ones that want to, but that's no different than buying a 90. Based on this argument your issue is with the micro-transaction, and since your P2W argument is false it's just that you don't want to pay the fee. I get that and I understand it, but don't hide it behind a bogus argument.

idiggory wrote:
Everyone who is purchasing WoD is getting a free 90, which means that this service is only going to be interesting to people who want ANOTHER toon to cap, which makes it highly likely that they're the type of player who intends to access level-capped content with that new level 95 character.

And because it takes a time investment to level characters, which not only means 2 months invested into a new character, but also a whole lot of time that COULD have been used accessing endgame content on their current level-capped toon (because, again, they're already getting a free one, not to mention whatever toon they already had)...


At each expansion the "progression" is reset, so there's no difference between a monetary investment and a time one. The only difference is what the player finds to be more valuable to them.

Also, since the progression of Player A has no impact on Player B, the competition argument isn't valid.
#15 Jan 18 2014 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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The purchase isn't providing the purchaser anything that the non-purchaser cannot obtain, meaning it isn't P2W. And since these two players aren't in competition, the P2W argument is not only pointless, it's simply wrong.


Invalid counterexample.

P2W does not depend that it be the only route to the highest level of power - that's just a false argument. P2W means that you are able to pay for advantages. Being able to access content two months earlier is an advantage. Having an additional two months of seals from running your dailies is an advantage.

How is this different than if they sold someone a two-month supply of seals that could be traded in for goods? Your "it can be obtained without it" argument isn't really going to hold weight then, is it.

The point is that, if I want to make a new character, I need to make a decision to invest two months slogging through broken content, or I can pay a fee and access the actual content I want two months faster.

Quote:

It's not a problem in a sense that it needs to be fixed, it's a problem in a sense that it's a progression style game that's showing its age. You could speed up XP, but to what extent? Eventually you speed up XP to the point that forcing people through the content no longer has a point. And if it's sped up enough, you lose the connection between zones and quest hubs until people are just mindlessly wandering around looking for questgivers.

You could add a "Quest to 90" like you mentioned. And this would ensure that the only people who play the old content are the ones that want to, but that's no different than buying a 90. Based on this argument your issue is with the micro-transaction, and since your P2W argument is false it's just that you don't want to pay the fee. I get that and I understand it, but don't hide it behind a bogus argument.


Again, in no world have I EVER seen a P2W label being used exclusively for exclusive power levels. In any game I've ever seen that was P2W, RMT was letting you fast-track your way to power, not the exclusive way to access it.

Plus, I'm going to argue that it's just wrong that this isn't a problem that needs to be fixed. Blizzard is adding this option because there's demand for it, and there's demand for it because 1-90 content isn't fun. It's painful, it's terribly balanced, it's slow, it's unexciting (talent system and ability level changes greatly exacerbated that).

The fact that this content is so unenjoyable is what is their motivator for designing and implementing a payed "skip it" button, thereby heavily changing the landscape of their business model and the way players approach new content. They're adding it because they expect it to be the route a substantial number of people take when creating a new character, and they judge that potential profit to be well above what they lose by **** off people like me.

It's BROKEN content. The content is meant to be enjoyable and interactive - it's a subscription-based game, and this is something they expect you to spend two months on. The fact is that the content is bad content, and they're using that as a motivator to get people spending money to bypass it and access the good content.

It's not just "showing it's wear and tear." The fact of the matter is that Blizzard is failing to provide a quality experience 1-90, and they're choosing to use that to push RMT instead of fixing that problem.

And, same as above, your counter-example can't exist in a bubble. If this was newer content that people wanted to skip because it was "showing it's wear and tear," would you have no problem with it? If people were bored gearing up ANOTHER heroic raid-ready character, would you be fine with Blizzard offering the ability to create a level 95 toon at ilvl <whatever> so you could jump right into the hardcore content?

That's absolutely the same thing. All we've done is moved the point in the timeline to a later date. It's no different investing time and effort in your character to get them up to level 90 and geared to take on new content as it is to get them to 95 and geared to take on new content.

You're approaching it differently because you WANT to consider that different. Logically, it isn't.

Quote:
At each expansion the "progression" is reset, so there's no difference between a monetary investment and a time one. The only difference is what the player finds to be more valuable to them.

Also, since the progression of Player A has no impact on Player B, the competition argument isn't valid.


Yeah, if we're going to zoom our perspective out to a level stupidly far disconnected from human experience. And the EXACT SAME THING can be said of weapons. There's no value to an ilvl difference, because come new expansion that's just not going to matter.

The point is that, in the here and now, the choice of whether or not to buy a character boost up to level 90 is a really big factor in the quality of my play experience.

And it's absolutely not okay for them to make players make that choice.

Either make the zoom to 90 a standard feature, do the once-and-done WoD thing, whatever. Keep it equal.

But no RMT purchase should EVER have a major potential to affect my real time enjoyment of the game. And this one definitely does.

I have no problem with RMT purchases that affect the enjoyment of the game in very minor ways - a non-combat pet, a mount, an appearance change. I have no problem with services that carry fees for good reasons, like realm transfers.

This is VERY different from those.
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#16 Jan 18 2014 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
P2W does not depend that it be the only route to the highest level of power - that's just a false argument. P2W means that you are able to pay for advantages. Being able to access content two months earlier is an advantage. Having an additional two months of seals from running your dailies is an advantage.


P2W requires competition, hence the "win" portion of pay-to-win, either against other players or against the content. This doesn't provide a competitive advantage over other players because the competition doesn't exist, and it doesn't provide a competitive advantage against the content because it starts you at the beginning of the progression curve. Heck, even that's questionable since most people would argue that the progression curve doesn't even start until you've reached max level (max level being 95 since this is a WoD feature, despite the potential early launch).

idiggory wrote:
How is this different than if they sold someone a two-month supply of seals that could be traded in for goods? Your "it can be obtained without it" argument isn't really going to hold weight then, is it.


Buying two months worth of seals can be done at a point where people are in competition. Buying a 90 vs. leveling a 90 may allow the purchased 90 to enter the progression curve sooner, but those two characters aren't in competition.

idiggory wrote:
Plus, I'm going to argue that it's just wrong that this isn't a problem that needs to be fixed. Blizzard is adding this option because there's demand for it, and there's demand for it because 1-90 content isn't fun. It's painful, it's terribly balanced, it's slow, it's unexciting (talent system and ability level changes greatly exacerbated that).

The fact that this content is so unenjoyable is what is their motivator for designing and implementing a payed "skip it" button, thereby heavily changing the landscape of their business model and the way players approach new content. They're adding it because they expect it to be the route a substantial number of people take when creating a new character, and they judge that potential profit to be well above what they lose by **** off people like me.

It's BROKEN content. The content is meant to be enjoyable and interactive - it's a subscription-based game, and this is something they expect you to spend two months on. The fact is that the content is bad content, and they're using that as a motivator to get people spending money to bypass it and access the good content.


1-85: Run around, collect quests, listen to stories, do tradeskills, progress through the game. 85-90:Run around, collect quests, listen to stories, do tradeskills, progress through the game. It's the same thing. What makes it broken is that there's nobody around to play with and it's become obsolete. For someone who isn't burnt out on it, assuming there were people around to play with, they would enjoy it just as much as we enjoy relevant content. I just went through it with a Rogue a few months ago without any problems other than extreme boredom. It's not broken, it's obsolete. They tried to make it relevant again with Cata and the community lynched them for it, so they're giving players the only other option they can think of, and that's to skip it.

idiggory wrote:
And, same as above, your counter-example can't exist in a bubble. If this was newer content that people wanted to skip because it was "showing it's wear and tear," would you have no problem with it? If people were bored gearing up ANOTHER heroic raid-ready character, would you be fine with Blizzard offering the ability to create a level 95 toon at ilvl <whatever> so you could jump right into the hardcore content?

That's absolutely the same thing. All we've done is moved the point in the timeline to a later date. It's no different investing time and effort in your character to get them up to level 90 and geared to take on new content as it is to get them to 95 and geared to take on new content.

You're approaching it differently because you WANT to consider that different. Logically, it isn't.


Newer and current aren't the same thing. This is an MMORPG, and MMORPGs are about progression. Prior expansions are no longer relevant in regards to progression, they're simply a necessary evil of the game design.

idiggory wrote:
The point is that, in the here and now, the choice of whether or not to buy a character boost up to level 90 is a really big factor in the quality of my play experience.


Whether you pay for two months worth of subs to level that toon, or pay a flat $30 to boost the character, you're paying for it one way or another. As I said previously, the only difference is whether you value your time or money more.

If the content were relevant I would agree with several of your points, but it's not. It's an obsolete timesink.
#17 Jan 18 2014 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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The Recruit-A-Friend thing is already limited to certain players, so I don't see this as a major ethical issue. If anything it's more fair than the RAF feature since everyone can use it if they have the cash. I can't use the RAF feature (and get the mounts) unless I move to another country.
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#18 Jan 18 2014 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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The point is that, in the here and now, the choice of whether or not to buy a character boost up to level 90 is a really big factor in the quality of my play experience.


No, it isn't. Your entire point is false. You've made it abundantly clear that you don't play.

You haven't been satisfied with the game for several expansions and spend pages arguing about what the game should be. Stop trolling.
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#19 Jan 18 2014 at 7:12 PM Rating: Good
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#20 Jan 18 2014 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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No, it isn't. Your entire point is false. You've made it abundantly clear that you don't play.

You haven't been satisfied with the game for several expansions and spend pages arguing about what the game should be. Stop trolling.


I don't play because of this reason. As in, the content they are selling passes to avoid being so painful that it literally keeps me from playing because I don't want to deal with it. Most of my WoW career was leveling alts, not accessing current-gen content.

And they're choosing to sell passes to bypass that content rather than just fixing it. I fail to see how that's NOT a problem.
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#21 Jan 18 2014 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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I have 6 level 90 guys a 86 monk and many 70 somethings and yes the content is repetitive and boring as hell. I think they tried to fix the old content with Cata introducing many new quest lines. and the only toon I got on RaF I don't play at all. im lost with him as mentioned before. after reading all of these comments I only oppose the purchasing of the auto lvl 90 character. The content is there while boring (not sure its broken, hasn't changed much since vanilla) but defiantly boring IF you have done it as much as many people have done(for me at least 10 times). right now im on a break of WoW and playing EQ again and im finding enjoyment in boxing a ranger and monk from the beginning. like WoW there are zones untouched that provide viable and fresh scenery and ways to level.


In WoW I would love to see them take a page out of EQ's book once again, and make an expac like serpents spine and have the entire expac content available from 1-max lvl. In other words you wouldn't need to leave the confines of the core of the expac to level to max if you didn't want to. maybe at that point say at 59 you would crave some BC content...
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#22 Jan 18 2014 at 10:16 PM Rating: Good
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One problem will be trying to find groups for pre lvl 90 content in the game. People who don't wish to pay (or cant afford it) will be punished with longer queue times for PVP and dungeons because of this.
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I don't play because of this reason.


Not buying it. You go on and on about what you hate on any given day, go back and read the last few years of your posts. This is the thread that buys you soapbox time, so this is your hate of the moment.

Quote:
they're choosing to sell passes to bypass that content rather than just fixing it. I fail to see how that's NOT a problem.


You got called on not playing, so you're reinventing your position to say that you don't play because you don't like old content and somehow the boost to 90 is relevant to that. It isn't. SoR and RaF already allow boosts that are contingent in some way on money, either by reactivating an account or buying a new one. A guy who can multi-box also receives an advantage based on his ability to pay for the accounts, power use, game time and hardware. Talk of allowing extra boosts to 90 is nothing but recognition that the same folks who already have the money to get around time sinks would be able to just buy multiple copies of WoD.

They "just fixed" leveling content once. Cata. I wonder why they don't want to repeat that experiment? A large slice of the fan base, I'll term them that because many seem to be critics who don't actually play, complained loudly about how they had been cheated out of new content because dev time had been spent on something other than cranking out max level stuff.
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#24 Jan 19 2014 at 3:00 AM Rating: Excellent
I think a lot of people here are missing Blizzard's argument as to why this is something they're considering:

They feel that with the instant free 90 people would get with WoD, there would be a significant amount of players buying multiple expansions and opening multiple accounts, and then using multiple character transfers to bring those multiple "free" 90s over to their main account. My impression is that Blizzard wants to cut out the middleman here and just sell the 90s for people who are going to be doing this anyways.

If I recall, a similar "cutting out the middleman" argument was used in favor of the Diablo 3 RM AH back when it was first announced. Though in that case the middleman was crappy shady third-party sites.

Let's assume this goes through, and you can buy level 90 characters. Keep in mind that it still may not, but for argument let's say it does. Are there restrictions you feel would keep this reasonable? Say, only eligible to have one character bought from the store per account? Or maybe putting on a cooldown of six months per perchase? Something similar?

Edited, Jan 19th 2014 4:01am by IDrownFish
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#25 Jan 19 2014 at 3:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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fronglo wrote:
One problem will be trying to find groups for pre lvl 90 content in the game. People who don't wish to pay (or cant afford it) will be punished with longer queue times for PVP and dungeons because of this.


That is my only big concern for this. With the technology to scale gear now one way they could fix it is to give higher level players the option to run the old dungeons through lfg but scale the gear depending on the dungeon you get. Like you can set Classic, BC, Wrath, Cata or MoP dungeon groups and it will put you in an appropriate dungeon at an appropriate level. To sensitize it more they could have it so you get a bonus on your reward if you run the whatever the expansion theme of the day is. For example, today you get extra justice for signing up for a Classic random, the next day it is a Cata random.

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#26 Jan 19 2014 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Not buying it. You go on and on about what you hate on any given day, go back and read the last few years of your posts. This is the thread that buys you soapbox time, so this is your hate of the moment.


Yeah, no, altitis has always been the most significant part of how I play the game. In Wrath, I ended up with 2 DKs on the same server, just because I wanted another one. It's possible I'm not as bad as Maz, but the number of characters I've deleted in the 30s-40s level range is pretty high.

When I quit the game in Cata, it's because I couldn't tolerate leveling my Druid up anymore. I hit Northrend, and I was so burned out from the long slog through the leveling content that it just wasn't worth it anymore. And I had intended to level more Worgen than just the one.

With MoP, the first time around, I made a Pandaren, but once I cleared the (chore) that was the Wandering Isle, it was painfully obvious that the next few months just weren't going to be fun. The content just sucks until you hit Wrath.

Then recently I actually bought the expansion, hoping that the endgame stuff would be enough to entertain me and keep me playing, without the alts (since I knew leveling a new character WOULDN'T be fun), and it wasn't.

But by all means assume you know exactly how I play the game, even though you weren't posting here for the majority of the time I was even an active player (Vanilla through Wrath). Smiley: rolleyes

And also continue to pretend that whether or not I'm often mad has any bearing on whether or not I'm right.
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#27 Jan 19 2014 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
I think a lot of people here are missing Blizzard's argument as to why this is something they're considering:

They feel that with the instant free 90 people would get with WoD, there would be a significant amount of players buying multiple expansions and opening multiple accounts, and then using multiple character transfers to bring those multiple "free" 90s over to their main account. My impression is that Blizzard wants to cut out the middleman here and just sell the 90s for people who are going to be doing this anyways.

If I recall, a similar "cutting out the middleman" argument was used in favor of the Diablo 3 RM AH back when it was first announced. Though in that case the middleman was crappy shady third-party sites.

Let's assume this goes through, and you can buy level 90 characters. Keep in mind that it still may not, but for argument let's say it does. Are there restrictions you feel would keep this reasonable? Say, only eligible to have one character bought from the store per account? Or maybe putting on a cooldown of six months per perchase? Something similar?

Edited, Jan 19th 2014 4:01am by IDrownFish


The extreme cost associated with buying another expac (for $30-50 or whatever the launch price will be) and THEN a character transfer is so high that it would have been so prohibitive in the first place. And, like you pointed out, there's really nothing stopping them from limiting the number of free 90s an account can access. And isn't there a limit to character transfers, anyway? I thought you could only have two accounts linked that way?

I don't think that justifies making it a service.
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#28 Jan 19 2014 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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They "just fixed" leveling content once. Cata. I wonder why they don't want to repeat that experiment? A large slice of the fan base, I'll term them that because many seem to be critics who don't actually play, complained loudly about how they had been cheated out of new content because dev time had been spent on something other than cranking out max level stuff.


With all fairness, Endgame of Cataclysm did suffer hard.

But then, it wasn't 100% the dev time spent on 1-60, it was also "The players are complaining about Heroics being too easy, let's ramp up the challenge on everything!"

And then Blizz either discovered (or already knew and decided to prove) that the people wanting the game harder were in the minority, as people quit in droves when Heroics were nearly impossible during the first couple major patches.

I never complained about the 1-60, but yeah it wouldn't have been so bad if Heroics were actually do-able and if there were an actual way to progress one's character without being in a raiding guild.

But there wasn't, and Deepholm/Tol Barad/Twilight Highlands dailies just weren't enough for me (and many people like me).

But even WITH the Cataclysm Updates to 1-60, a lot of players still hate leveling even though it is very much streamlined. This is Blizzard's answer to those who hate leveling: Give us a little money and we'll let you skip it.

The fee is enough that you won't see everybody starting at Level 90, but yet those who have a little extra cash who want an extra alt or knows a friend who wants to start playing, but doesn't want to start from the very bottom can pitch in some money and have fun right away without all the slogfest through dead areas.

Could the questing use some sort of face-lift?

Absolutely!

Do they want another Cataclysm? I'm guessing no.
#29 Jan 19 2014 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
Most of this is aimed at Digg, but it applies to all I guess...

I still stand on the side that it is ok. All of us who are buying WoD are getting the one insta-90. Anyone who starts up (fresh) is getting the insta-90. No one is being left out here.

Should they fix old content even more? Yes. I don't know many who would argue that they should not. Will they? Probably not, because it is easier to just add this service (instant 90). Thy could add a quest line that marches you from where ever you wish to start right to 90 with added EXP and ok/decent gear rewards along the way. Maybe someday? Maybe a suggestion should be posted at on the OF, I'd gladly come and second it.

BUT BUT BUT... if you want to buy the option again and not level, go for it. It won't hurt you if your guild member/friend/Joe/Jan/Hobo spends his/her money.
It is like mounts and pets you can get on the blizz store. I own a few. Few RL friends I play this game with, do not, because they can not afford to drop the money. It is ok. I still play with them, they still play with me (giggity).

The argument that they get to skip over old content, and thus get to work on end gear content faster VS. some one who can not afford to buy another instant-90. This fits in with the mounts. Who cares? How does this effect YOUR game play? Does it make you not able to log in? Not able to go and do your quest line/dailies?
Is the worry aimed at Randoms? Because when people hit 15 and can start doing randoms, I'm very vocal (or typey?) to bad tanks. Not to call them out, but to offer suggestions so they learn. If the worry is New players to WoW using Insta-90 and filling up randoms, just take a breath and offer suggestions.

They get to work on newer gear? Oh no..
I've only been back for a month (I think I'm 3 days shy actually of a full 30 days), my DK is iLv525. That seems pretty decent imo. Only a few weekends (I don't LFR during the week, do not have the time) of work and I sit again in top 10 and top 5 DPS meters. I'm just a few more upgrades a way until I'm stuck with either doing Flex or joining a raiding guild.
I consider my self a casual player.
So is the worry of a new person out gearing you, making you freak out?
Digg wrote:
Most of my WoW career was leveling alts, not accessing current-gen content.

Quote:
Then recently I actually bought the expansion, hoping that the endgame stuff would be enough to entertain me and keep me playing, without the alts (since I knew leveling a new character WOULDN'T be fun), and it wasn't.

Is this still true today? I assume you are playing, I don't know. Are you actually doing current-LFR/Flex/10/25/Hard raids? Or still leveling characters? Or quit again?

I would think someone who is starting up WoW fresh, has some kind of MMO exp. Probably with a free one, and they decided to try out one of the big boys. That is how it happened with me over 10 years ago.
This isn't a new game, so I'm not worried about an influx of new players who do not know their class. They will get 10? (what is the cap in WoD? 95? or we going to 100?) to learn what to do before they step into Heroic Dungeons/Randoms. There are way to many sites packed full of information that even today's people don't use to better themselves off. Learning WoW isn't hard. Starting at level 1 or 90, you still have to learn. Spending $25-30 to skip over 1-90 questing may be an option, but not a must. If you can afford it, Blizz will gladly take your cash.

----

Now Rhodekylle would have to correct me here, but are there not already similar services like this for the Chinese version of the game? Do not most players actually go to Internet Cafes to play, where they are paying for internet time?
From what I know, WoW in China is free. They also have the option to buy Lesser Coins from the store. Are there other options like this?
These options are to allow players to enjoy end-game (raiding) with out wasting money on internet time to do dailies. I could see them having the option to allow people to skip a head, would probably increase the player pool if others could join their friends/coworkers/spouse in a game and not have to play catch up and could instead enjoy the game.

Criminy said some stuff I totally agree with. I do wish there was a scale-down or sync option in the game. I would totally help people if I could sync down to their level. They do this in FFXI and FFXIV. You gear scales down, and you lose abilities. I would like to see this happen in WoW, maybe not remove abilities but make them very weak (so rotations, and bars would not have to be reset if you synce down). Allow gear to scale down, but make you stronger then the average person in gear, it would be scaled down to a bit better than BoA gear. Sync would not allow PvP (because lets be fair, that would not be).

From what I understand this option for other 90s is still in debate. Again, everyone gets a free on with WoD so no one is being left out on this option.
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#30 Jan 19 2014 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
It's possible I'm not as bad as Maz, but the number of characters I've deleted in the 30s-40s level range is pretty high.


Don't hate. Smiley: frown
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#31 Jan 19 2014 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't like it. But the moment they announced the 90-boost per account it was rather likely. Else people would open a new account, get their free level 90 character and transfer him to their old account. This is just the cleaner, easier way.

I just wish they did not any level boost at all.

But then I'm nearly done leveling pre-90 so you could call me biased. Smiley: smile
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#32 Jan 19 2014 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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But by all means assume you know exactly how I play the game, even though you weren't posting here for the majority of the time I was even an active player (Vanilla through Wrath).


Perhaps you'd like to check that with Pol or Maz? I tended not to post a lot because the +1 game isn't that amusing to me and until Cata we often weren't on the same patch or even expansion. Smiley: lol

I don't have to know how you play to know when you loudly pronounce you've quit. Anger or no anger, doesn't matter. Neither does whether you're an altoholic, a raider, a PvP god, or a wicker man built from cheese curls. Why? Because you don't play. A guy who doesn't play cannot say anything has a direct impact on his experience in ... the game he isn't playing.

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Quote:
Now Rhodekylle would have to correct me here, but are there not already similar services like this for the Chinese version of the game? Do not most players actually go to Internet Cafes to play, where they are paying for internet time?
From what I know, WoW in China is free. They also have the option to buy Lesser Coins from the store. Are there other options like this?


I checked on lesser coins, they may be available in other Asian regions such as Korea or Taiwan, but I didn't see them on any of our tabs.

For consumables, we can get the 300% XP potions like the ones that also drop in game. They could offer a powerful boost and they're fairly affordable, but they aren't a direct boost to any fixed level point.

Expansions are free, game time is paid by the minute, and many still play in Internet Cafes.
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#33 Jan 19 2014 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
[quote]
... if Heroics were actually do-able...


Heroics are always do-able by using class utilities and smart pulls. However, the player base was used to a tank grabbing aggro and then just dpsing down the mobs. A majority of players didn't know how to use their CC's properly, or at all.
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#34 Jan 19 2014 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
ACLinjury wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
[quote]
... if Heroics were actually do-able...


Heroics are always do-able by using class utilities and smart pulls. However, the player base was used to a tank grabbing aggro and then just dpsing down the mobs. A majority of players didn't know how to use their CC's properly, or at all.


And that was a move by Blizzard. From what I understand, Vanilla WoW, CCs were used, maybe some in BC, but by the time of LK you just aggroed huge groups of mobs and AEed them. BoAs and enchants allowed this to happen in Dungeons at lower levels as well (because everyone was greatly geared).
Then cata comes and Blizz decides that CCing mobs in a group was needed again. Player base either got use to not CCing, or was part of the new player base and didn't know how to (because they didn't know about, the right way to do so).
And in MoP, I don't see CCing be done in heroic dungeons, at all, ever.
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#35 Jan 19 2014 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
ACLinjury wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
[quote]
... if Heroics were actually do-able...


Heroics are always do-able by using class utilities and smart pulls. However, the player base was used to a tank grabbing aggro and then just dpsing down the mobs. A majority of players didn't know how to use their CC's properly, or at all.


And that was a move by Blizzard. From what I understand, Vanilla WoW, CCs were used, maybe some in BC, but by the time of LK you just aggroed huge groups of mobs and AEed them. BoAs and enchants allowed this to happen in Dungeons at lower levels as well (because everyone was greatly geared).
Then cata comes and Blizz decides that CCing mobs in a group was needed again. Player base either got use to not CCing, or was part of the new player base and didn't know how to (because they didn't know about, the right way to do so).
And in MoP, I don't see CCing be done in heroic dungeons, at all, ever.


It didn't help that CC was simply NOT prevelant enough in all classes for there to be a system that would work with the random system. Back in BC/Vanilla, you'd make sure you grab one of the classes with solid CC, and a class with solid trash dps, etc. There was a construction aspect that let the CC system work.

Realistically, the only way CC in randoms could work is if all classes had real CC (at least close to the level of Poly), or if you queued as something like CC-DPS as a Mage, Shaman, etc.

The former is obviously the more attractive option for PVEers, but it's a PVP balance issue.
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#36 Jan 19 2014 at 8:40 PM Rating: Good
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
but it's a PVP balance issue.


So many borrow from WoW, would be nice if Blizz borrowed back. I do wish PvE and PvP were 2 different specialization options. You would have to spec in, or allow it to auto-spec you into PvP-tree/spec.
Would help scale things imo.
When I played Rift, it had this. A tree that was more for PvP rather then PvE.

PvP worlds? Might have to b stuck in PvP mode at all times. If you do not want that, do like many I know do, do PvP but on a PvE realm. Flagged when you want, not all the time.
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#37 Jan 19 2014 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
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I never really cared for the argument that PvP needs to be perfectly balanced. That would be impossible in my opinion. Personally I feel that skill will trump any balance issues. Hence why great PvPers truly excel and good players only get so far before complain of balance issues. Bad players will be be bad regardless of how balance issues are addressed.

Then again, I was mediocre, on a good day, in PvP and it had nothing to do with balance issues.

And as I recall, CC was needed in a few places during heroic BC runs. Some pulls were unforgiving. There was actually a great post many many moons ago on the hunter forms on zam about LoS pulls and how to do them. I recall having my mind blown reading them but it went a long way at the time. I just feel players don't care to learn anymore.... I can vent for days on this subject.
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#38 Jan 19 2014 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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ACLinjury wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
[quote]
... if Heroics were actually do-able...


Heroics are always do-able by using class utilities and smart pulls. However, the player base was used to a tank grabbing aggro and then just dpsing down the mobs. A majority of players didn't know how to use their CC's properly, or at all.


You're talking like trash is the only thing that wiped groups.

Trash wasn't the problem in my attempts, it was the bosses and how over-tuned they were. They allowed for an incredibly small amount of error. No amount of CCs and "Smart Pulls" is going to help you if someone has 250ms or so in a boss fight, especially the guy who's supposed to be interrupting, or God Forbid, the Healer has 250ms because I remember "Almost Dead Full Almost Dead Full Almost Dead Full Almost Dead" was nearly as bad, if not worse, than Wrath was, despite Blizz's attempts at the "Triage System" (which did not work whatsoever at all I might add).

Edited, Jan 19th 2014 11:03pm by Lyrailis
#39 Jan 20 2014 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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The problem with Cataclysm heroics was a combination of two things:

1. Healer mana efficiency was built around triage healing being a thing.
2. Incoming damage in heroics were not built around triage healing being a thing.

Probably the worst blunder in WoW development history. Had they committed to the triage plan 100%, I would have hated it, but I would have accepted it. Instead they went 50% and then had cold feet, but instead of reverting the changes, they went with a half-and-half **** of epic proportions that caused healers and tanks to quit their roles overnight.

Before someone rolls in with the obligatory "I liked it" comment: I bet you didn't play a **** Druid.
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#40 Jan 20 2014 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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It was so poorly tuned. I mean, they didn't even crank up the incoming damage from mobs until fairly late in the beta testing cycle (I think it was like late September/early October for the November launch). Everything was just ROUGH. Suddenly it was hard to survive just playing the leveling content, particularly when you didn't have a healing class (or you were a healing class at low levels before you got real heals).

My FAVORITE part was being a Mage doing the underwater zone when they made that change. Having to try and juggle CC in a 3D environment when you were squishy as **** and your CC was a fraction of what it used to be the last time you had to actually use it (which I was used to back in Vanilla/BC), was just so painful.

I've said it before, I'm sure I'll say it again, but Cata is an aggressive case of launching WAY too early. Which is something Blizzard used to be known for never doing. It realistically needed 2-3 more months in development (instead of letting all that work take place until the fixes finally made the expansion realistically playable 2-3 months later anyway).

Honestly, I'm convinced that was a serious trigger in why the population plummeted. We don't have data on when people abandoned ship for Cata, but I'm betting a BIG part of the leaving population left in those initial months.
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#41 Jan 20 2014 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I bet you didn't play a @#%^ing Druid.


You said it not me. Resto druids were like the bestest healers ever. Smiley: laugh
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#42 Jan 20 2014 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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Not in the early game.

I know, I played one...
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#43 Jan 20 2014 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Not in the early game.

I know, I played one...


I know that. Just interjecting my poor ability at humor. Smiley: tongue
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#44 Jan 20 2014 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Well, **** it, I'm sick as a dog, so it could be my inability to pick up the subtle clues.

I just remember throwing various objects through the room after healing and tanking several heroics in the early stages of Cataclysm. Uphill battle is the only way to describe that terrible experience. Then everybody got raid geared and it was back to lols-pulling rooms while scoffing at the notion of CC and boasting about how we used to do it back in the old days of the expansion. Until a random boss mechanic wiped the group and everybody started yelling.
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#45 Jan 20 2014 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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Druid healing would have been a lot of fun with triage (same with disc).

But a HoT-based class just doesn't work when you're trying to go from empty to full, nonstop.
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#46 Jan 20 2014 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
It was so poorly tuned. I mean, they didn't even crank up the incoming damage from mobs until fairly late in the beta testing cycle (I think it was like late September/early October for the November launch). Everything was just ROUGH. Suddenly it was hard to survive just playing the leveling content, particularly when you didn't have a healing class (or you were a healing class at low levels before you got real heals).

My FAVORITE part was being a Mage doing the underwater zone when they made that change. Having to try and juggle CC in a 3D environment when you were squishy as **** and your CC was a fraction of what it used to be the last time you had to actually use it (which I was used to back in Vanilla/BC), was just so painful.

I've said it before, I'm sure I'll say it again, but Cata is an aggressive case of launching WAY too early. Which is something Blizzard used to be known for never doing. It realistically needed 2-3 more months in development (instead of letting all that work take place until the fixes finally made the expansion realistically playable 2-3 months later anyway).

Honestly, I'm convinced that was a serious trigger in why the population plummeted. We don't have data on when people abandoned ship for Cata, but I'm betting a BIG part of the leaving population left in those initial months.


Even if you were a class that had heals, it STILL sucked to level solo.

Tol Barad when you first got 85 was a nightmare. Every other fight, having to blow half of your mana into heals that barely touched your health meter. As a Ret Paladin, I was forced to use Seal of Insight (yes, as ret!) because the incoming damage was just so ridiculous. I had ~100k health, right? I could blow half of my mana for a 25k heal that took three seconds to cast. Oooo, that's so gonna help me, right? Meanwhile, one mob was capable of doing 15k per melee strike AND then they put that ridiculous 20 second cooldown on Word of Glory.

My Enhance Shaman was even worse for this, her heals did about 18k and took about 35% Mana or thereabouts, with the same casting time. Sure, she got Maelstrom procs to make it free and instant, but it was nowhere near enough to keep up with incoming damage in Level 85 content.

I didn't really get much of anything done in Twilight Highlands OR Tol Barad except for my Paladin (who I ran as Prot because of the incoming damage problems) and Blood DK (who was unaffected by the 'omg no heals!!' problem), until later on in the expansion when the craftable PvP gear was available (which was miles better than the green **** I was wearing on all my alts at the time).

Yeah, I can't understand why nobody liked Cataclysm.... /sarcasm

Now, MoP is much, much better... and I'm thinking that if they can continue the trend with WoD.... the game will be very fun. What I am not anticipating, however is this "No Fly until 6.1 and a quest chain" thing.... because they seriously do not seem to understand that some of us have 10+ characters and we're not going to feel like doing a long quest chain on every stinking character. As it is, Klaxxi was horrible for this; you can't do any dailies for them until you do the whole zone of questing on every single character you want the dailies open for. But Klaxxi didn't give you something like, yanno, flying....

Edited, Jan 20th 2014 7:40pm by Lyrailis

Edited, Jan 20th 2014 7:44pm by Lyrailis
#47 Jan 20 2014 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
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But Klaxxi didn't give you something like, yanno, flying....


Nope, that would have been too simple because faction grinds are fun! Instead, make fish cakes to feed your baby cloud serpent, which will be BoA ... but every alt you have will have to do this rep grind to be able to use it. Oh, by the way, we're going to give you cloud serpent riding, but you won't be able to use it until you also buy faster mount skill and riding for Pandaria.

Boost to 90 or not, I feel sorry for new players. Each expansion has its rep grind and there is often a pet or mount at stake. As the number of expansions grows, the community in general doesn't want to see new players easily granted things that were weeks of grinding for them, but new players are left to grind old content for weeks on end. I find it annoying -- Argent Tournament, I'm looking right at you -- but a player starting in WoD will have even more to catch up on.

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some of us have 10+ characters


Smiley: nod Or worse. Much worse.
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#48 Jan 21 2014 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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Boost to 90 or not, I feel sorry for new players. Each expansion has its rep grind and there is often a pet or mount at stake. As the number of expansions grows, the community in general doesn't want to see new players easily granted things that were weeks of grinding for them, but new players are left to grind old content for weeks on end. I find it annoying -- Argent Tournament, I'm looking right at you -- but a player starting in WoD will have even more to catch up on.


Yeah, the fact that Argent Tournament is still a daily thing just isn't okay. Not with the cost of heirlooms being so high otherwise. Those aren't status items, they're real quality of life ones. And the Tourney is just awful. Seriously. It wasn't fun when it came out, and it's REALLY not fun now. Particularly not when it's noticeably more buggy now than it ever used to be.

Having a cool <insert mount> as a product of a rep grind is one thing, because that's really just something you're going for because you want it. Pretty much just a status or aesthetics thing. I mean, I DO think they should lower the grind levels (not to make it easy, but to at least accommodate the fact that this isn't CURRENT content anymore, and that it no longer has additional value beyond the mount. Lowering the grind would rebalance the ROI back to where it was when that content was current). But I'm okay with it being more of a grind, in general.

I do feel bad for all the people who feel like they need to clear all the BC grinds now, in case they aren't available come WoD.
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#49 Jan 21 2014 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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I do feel bad for all the people who feel like they need to clear all the BC grinds now, in case they aren't available come WoD.


WoG will not impact BC content whatsoever, other than whatever effects the stat squish has upon them.

WoG will be taking place in a whole separate continent game-wise, and Outland will continue to exist. They haven't released exact details as to how we choose which version of Draenor we go to when we use the Dark Portal, IMO they'll probably put a bronze dragon NPC that teleports you to Outland and have him stand right next to the DP while the DP itself leads to WoD Draenor (they could even use phases; if you're Lv90, the portal turns red and the aforementioned dragon would be standing there ready to teleport you to old Outland. If you're <90, the portal is green and leads to Outland).

Edited, Jan 21st 2014 11:47am by Lyrailis
#50 Jan 21 2014 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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The new rep grinds--through dailies--in MoP are a huge part of what caused me to take a long break a couple months into MoP. I don't mind doing a volunteer rep grind to get a mount or pet, or whatever. But, the obligatory rep grinds of MoP were a huge turn-off for me. And, they were obligatory if you wanted to get better gear to raid. I still haven't gotten to exalted with most of the MoP factions. I just don't care to run the same dailies over and over simply to chip away at rep. It's not fun, in my opinion. I'm weird, probably, because I don't mind grinding ogres for beads, or something along those lines, but the dailies just don't work for me.

Quote:
And the Tourney is just awful. Seriously.


I couldn't agree more. The jousting stuff was horrible. I mostly just skipped those and did the other dailies. If there weren't pets to get, I probably never would have continued on that grind. I never did get the mounts from the Tourney. Ugh, just ugh.

Edited, Jan 21st 2014 10:54am by Azwing
#51 Jan 21 2014 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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Azwing wrote:
The new rep grinds--through dailies--in MoP are a huge part of what caused me to take a long break a couple months into MoP. I don't mind doing a volunteer rep grind to get a mount or pet, or whatever. But, the obligatory rep grinds of MoP were a huge turn-off for me. And, they were obligatory if you wanted to get better gear to raid. I still haven't gotten to exalted with most of the MoP factions. I just don't care to run the same dailies over and over simply to chip away at rep. It's not fun, in my opinion. I'm weird, probably, because I don't mind grinding ogres for beads, or something along those lines, but the dailies just don't work for me.


You don't need rep nowadays (except for Shado-Pan Assault to Friendly which only takes 1 full run of Last Stand), and getting into Endgame MoP is quite easy. Also, you can get rep like candy now from the Warscouts and/or doing the Work Orders quests, so getting Exalted is easy-peasy, even with Klaxxi with no Commendations (that used to take for-stinking-ever).

And they did say that they made a mistake with the sheer number of dailies and the grinds involved with them, so I doubt they'd do that again in WoD.

But at least the option was *there*, unlike Cataclysm, lol.

Quote:
Quote:
And the Tourney is just awful. Seriously.


I couldn't agree more. The jousting stuff was horrible. I mostly just skipped those and did the other dailies. If there weren't pets to get, I probably never would have continued on that grind. I never did get the mounts from the Tourney. Ugh, just ugh.

Edited, Jan 21st 2014 10:54am by Azwing


To each their own, I didn't mind the Tourney. Though if you wanted to get _everything_ then, yes it was a God-Awful grind that took 3+ months once you got your Crusader title. But just getting up to Crusader wasn't that bad. It's just that they decided to stick a million mounts and pets on those vendors and each required an item you could only realistically get 10 of per day (more if you had a guild willing to do the dungeon). The problem were the mounts that they wanted 100-150 of those seals for. The 40 ones weren't too bad.

Edited, Jan 21st 2014 1:19pm by Lyrailis
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