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#1 Nov 27 2013 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Ghostcrawler is saying goodbye to Blizzard.

Ghostcrawler wrote:
You know that part at the end of raid night when the final boss is dead and you’re done handing out loot and everyone kind of goes their separate ways? Yeah, this is one of those times.

We just came off of a great BlizzCon. We had so many different games to talk about, and we were thrilled at the reception of Warlords of Draenor. It was great to meet or reconnect with so many of you. I love BlizzCon dearly, which makes it so hard to tell you that this will be my last one, or at least my last one up on stage. An opportunity has come my way, and I have made the very tough decision to move on from Blizzard.

I wanted to thank all of you for being a part of this grand quest. I have said a hundred times that having passionate gamers, including the angry ones, is a far better place to be than having a community that doesn’t care. You all care. Like us, you want the game to be the best that it can be. So I ask you to keep on providing your feedback. I promise (and I rarely promise!) that the developers care very much about what you have to say.

I’ll be out there, and I can’t imagine it will be that hard to find me.

Hugs,
Ghostcrawler

P.S. No, you can’t have a pony. Or a moose. Or a mantis shrimp. Or a tardigrade. Or a crab. Keep trying though.

P.P.S. I play a Holy Priest.


Personally speaking, he's going to be very missed. He was a direct line of communication from the devs to the players, and they are going to have a **** of a time replacing him. Best of luck to him in the future.

Edited, Nov 27th 2013 4:53pm by IDrownFish
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#2 Nov 27 2013 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: eek

Wow Smiley: clown, good for him though. He's got an impressive achievement on his resume, it had to be hard not to leverage that for so long. Kudos and good luck to him. What's he working on next? Anybody know?

Also, does this mean all those people who used him as an excuse to leave WoW are coming back now? Smiley: rolleyes
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#3 Nov 27 2013 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:

Also, does this mean all those people who used him as an excuse to leave WoW are coming back now? Smiley: rolleyes


My money is that the "WoW is dying!!1!" crowd will use it in a feeble attempt to try to prove their point.

Remember, complaining is the one thing the internet is good for. Regardless the news.
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#4 Nov 27 2013 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Relevant?



Smiley: rolleyes

You'd think by this point people would point to WoW following the same life cycle as just about every other MMO out there. But I suppose you're right, yay internet! Smiley: yippee

Edited, Nov 27th 2013 2:38pm by someproteinguy
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#5 Nov 27 2013 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
someproteinguy wrote:
You'd think by this point people would point to WoW following the same life cycle as just about every other MMO out there. But I suppose you're right, yay internet! Smiley: yippee

Edited, Nov 27th 2013 2:38pm by someproteinguy


What do you mean by that? Like, devs moving off to other projects as a sign of the decline of WoW?
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#6 Nov 27 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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If anything it's the over-sized shoulder pads driving people away from the game. Smiley: nod

Only that the game started smaller, grew in popularity, peaked, and is now in the slow inevitable decline that follows that peak, like any number of games before it. Of course given WoWs popularity it'll be like the Simpsons and will still have hefty numbers of people tuning in 20 years from now as they continue to turn out decent entertainment; but the days when it shined the brightest are probably past in the eyes of most people.

Edited, Nov 27th 2013 2:58pm by someproteinguy
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#7 Nov 27 2013 at 7:16 PM Rating: Default
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Missed? MISSED? I'm sorry but... ahahahahahaha. I might actually return to WoW if he's gone. His knee-jerk overkill fix to every single issue is a big part of what drove me away from WoW. Before he was in charge, I remember looking forward to patches. Starting with Wrath and his reign, every patch made drastic changes that caused a whole host of other problems. And then he'd "fix" the "fixes". I'm happy to see him go.
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#8 Nov 27 2013 at 7:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Got any specific examples of what he personally broke, then?

Have you ever noticed how the devs actually communicate with the players these days? That's directly Ghostcrawler's doing - he's the one who started letting the fans see into what the devs were thinking for future changes and judging player feedback.

I at least had an immense respect for the guy, and I usually agreed with what he said in regards to design and gameplay. And we can actually read dev posts on MMOC because of GC.

Don't be happy the guy's leaving because you feel he nerfed your favorite class. Keep that kind of **** on the oboards.
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#9 Nov 27 2013 at 9:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well this is disappointing, for two reasons. Every time I take a WoW break and it asks why I'm unsubscribing, I type in "Because Ghostcrawler hates my class." Now, one, I can't keep reusing the same old joke anymore. And two, I've looked really stupid all this time since it turns out he plays a Holy Priest...
#10 Nov 27 2013 at 10:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't be so hard on yourself, for all we know he's some kind of *********. I mean you'd have to be a least a little to keep at his job as long as he did, right? Smiley: wink
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#11 Nov 27 2013 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Relevant?




Fat Leslie West is always relevant. That dood lived in my Blaupunkt car stereo for years and only came out when I let him into my Jensen Triaxials. Which was every day.

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#12 Nov 27 2013 at 10:40 PM Rating: Default
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oh come on now, it wasn't too long ago that we had lengthy discussions here about how terrible expansions and design choices were. I had EVERY class, so generally speaking, if one was nerfed anther got a buff. But most of the changes were heavy handed like destroying Beast Master hunters in Wrath, Cataclysm (et al), the nerf of warlocks damage by like 30% (was that Cataclysm too?)

I really couldn't care less about the devs communication with the community. The first team of devs didn't do that and they created an amazing game and follow-up expansion. What I care about are the results.
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#13 Nov 28 2013 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
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ekaterinodar wrote:
oh come on now, it wasn't too long ago that we had lengthy discussions here about how terrible expansions and design choices were. I had EVERY class, so generally speaking, if one was nerfed anther got a buff. But most of the changes were heavy handed like destroying Beast Master hunters in Wrath, Cataclysm (et al), the nerf of warlocks damage by like 30% (was that Cataclysm too?)

I really couldn't care less about the devs communication with the community. The first team of devs didn't do that and they created an amazing game and follow-up expansion. What I care about are the results.


Vanilla and BC were pretty much inaccessible for the masses, what good isa game that only 1% of the playerbase ever got to truly enjoy?

Mr. Street's design choices gave us two of the most-loved expansions: Wrath and Mists. With them came do-able Heroics, LFR, and a whole slew of other things to make the game more smooth and fun.

He gave us Wrath and everybody loved it. Then they bent a knee to the hardcore whiners and gave us Cataclysm, the biggest steaming pile of crap in WoW History with the ridiculous dungeons, nerfed self-heals, and tedious crafting.

Then they said "you know what? **** with the whiners... let's make the game fun and accessible for all and add optional challenge" ......now we got Mists. And everybody rejoiced. Well, almost everybody.

Mr. Street did awesome things for WoW and a part of me worries what will happen now that he's gone. Hopefully his successor isn't stupid enough to unleash another Cataclysm upon us.
#14 Nov 28 2013 at 2:26 AM Rating: Good
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BC was fine. Vanilla is another story. But middle to end of BC was fantastic. Were there dungeons that were hard without people who knew what they were doing? Absolutely. It's called *heroic* for a reason.
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#15 Nov 28 2013 at 4:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
He gave us Wrath and everybody loved it. Then they bent a knee to the hardcore whiners and gave us Cataclysm, the biggest steaming pile of crap in WoW History with the ridiculous dungeons, nerfed self-heals, and tedious crafting..


Cata Heroics were great. The Expansion had many faults but the maxlevel dungeons were not one of them. People unwilling to use CC and read up on bosses made them a horrific experience, not their design.

And yes, I remember how many people here criticized the way class balance in this game was handled for the last couple of years. I don't say GC was bad for WoW, but please, it's a bit early for the oft-mentioned rose-tinted glasses.
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#16 Nov 28 2013 at 6:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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TherealLogros wrote:

Cata Heroics were great. The Expansion had many faults but the maxlevel dungeons were not one of them. People unwilling to use CC and read up on bosses made them a horrific experience, not their design.


Yes Cata heroics were amazing... if you ran them with friends or guild members. They were an absolute nightmare with pugs. Sure there were people who were "CC? Wut? pull n00b! GoGoGoGo!" but I found most of the trouble lied with getting some of the worst grouping. Nothing like getting really bad CC setup for dungeons like Grim Batol.

You cannot have hard heroics as the only option when the skill of players you are going to get is completely random.
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#17 Nov 28 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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I remember lengthy discussions calling people mouth-breathing morons for thinking that ghostcrawler was, in any way, directly associated with a change they didn't like. He might be the lead systems designer, but he doesn't personally make decisions on those things. Everything involves a team discussion that determines if something is an immediate problem, what their various options to fix it are, the pros and cons of each, what else will need to change, etc.

Ghostcrawler reported the final results of that discussion. You can also be **** sure that all their decisions went through someone like Metzen, QA, etc. before they ever made it into the game.

Thinking he's, in any way, directly responsible for changes you don't like is stupid as ****. Most major changes you don't like are almost certainly in response to a directive from above his head. The lead project manager would be the one with the ultimate and most important say in things like balance prioritization ("Oh, this class has one highly functional PVE spec, two highly functional PVP specs, and a tree only good for leveling? Well, we have classes in worse positions, so ignore it for now.")

Quote:
I really couldn't care less about the devs communication with the community. The first team of devs didn't do that and they created an amazing game and follow-up expansion. What I care about are the results.


You're an idiot. One of the most major complaints about MMOs since WoW is that there's not enough communication from the dev team to the players.

Ghostcrawler's team is one that has to take the information that is handed to them by their research division and filtered by the game leadership, with regards to where they want the game to go, and then they get to play in that general area.

It's not like they just come up with something, build it, and put it in the game.
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#18 Nov 28 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Got any specific examples of what he personally broke, then?


TO THE GROUND, BABY!

Edit: I've had my disagreements with Ghostcrawler, but I'm sad to see him go.

Edit2: The above "To the ground, baby" reference is to the Retribution Paladin nerf that occurred back in TBC. I know Ghostcrawler wasn't responsible, but the meme still happened and even exists as an achievement today. Just to explain it to the newbie with the itchy trigger-finger.

Edited, Nov 28th 2013 5:26pm by Mazra
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#19 Nov 28 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
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TherealLogros wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
He gave us Wrath and everybody loved it. Then they bent a knee to the hardcore whiners and gave us Cataclysm, the biggest steaming pile of crap in WoW History with the ridiculous dungeons, nerfed self-heals, and tedious crafting..


Cata Heroics were great. The Expansion had many faults but the maxlevel dungeons were not one of them. People unwilling to use CC and read up on bosses made them a horrific experience, not their design.

And yes, I remember how many people here criticized the way class balance in this game was handled for the last couple of years. I don't say GC was bad for WoW, but please, it's a bit early for the oft-mentioned rose-tinted glasses.



^^
Pretty much, this.

Requiring CC when not every class can CC every mob type was stupid, especially when the game randomly grabs 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 DPS without caring what class they are for what dungeon.

It wasn't that people were "too stupid" to use CC, is the fact that sometimes you got groups where the CC options were.... less-than-optimal at best.

And then you also had the bosses with the very slim margin of error. Corla. Ozruk. Having to rely upon 3rd party addons to tell you to move before the boss does his attack is kinda stupid (because the attack gives you 1.5s and there's no way you're going to move that fast without having the game telling you to move before he even starts casting said ability).

And again, Random LFD... this stuff just doesn't work in Random PUGs.

Mists did a good job adding Challenge Modes, but they needed to do more -- Challenge Mode was just gear scaling, an extra mechanic here-and-there, and a Time Limit.

What they SHOULD have done with Challenge Mode, was tune it up a bit, give each boss a new mechanic that emphasizes awareness and skill (but not pure reaction time), scale the gear down to appropriate I-level......and get rid of the Time Limit, and place a limit of *deaths*. Getting a gold medal requires no more than 2 deaths during the course of the dungeon. That way you could do strategy, careful pulls, all of the things you had to do in Cataclysm, BC and Vanilla without it feeling like a MAXDPS rush.
#20 Nov 28 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Was the state of CC in Cata really that bad? I may be misremembering here but I don't think I ever had a group without the option of proper CCing. And those weren't all guildruns. Many of them, thankfully, but not all.

Ozruk was doable without any addons. I solo'd Stonecore around 80 times this expansion without any Cata-plugin. And YES I know I was level 90. That's beside the point.
My point is, after I failed a few times in the beginning I never was hit by any of his abilities again because I then knew his pattern well enough to dodge them even without DBM screaming at me. Sure, I wasn't relying on anyone other than me to execute the fight properly then. But if I managed to do so without an addon, why should people in a PUG not be able to do it with said addon? Downloading DBM isn't too much to ask, in my book. Either Blizzard disables ALL addons or they design the encounter with the knowledge in mind that addons exist and will be used.

I agree with everything you said about CMs. For all I care they can even design two different CM modes for every dungeon. One with the time limit and one with the other approach you described (or something similar).
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#21 Nov 28 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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ekaterinodar wrote:
oh come on now, it wasn't too long ago that we had lengthy discussions here about how terrible expansions and design choices were.
The changes to affect class balance didn't bother me as much as the changes that happened for change sake (assuming they do a reasonable job at the balancing of course). I realize the game gets old and we need to freshen it up, but there comes a point where you don't recognize the game you've played for years, and re-learning it stops being worthwhile. There were times when I felt the pace of change was too fast and people who didn't spend a chunk of their free time reading patch notes and following the development process were getting screwed because of it.
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#22 Nov 28 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Was the state of CC in Cata really that bad? I may be misremembering here but I don't think I ever had a group without the option of proper CCing. And those weren't all guildruns. Many of them, thankfully, but not all.


I really do think you are misremembering. CC availability was a major problem in the LFG tool.

Death Knight - no CC
Druid - Hibernate, and Entangling Roots/Cyclone for really short CC
Hunter - Freezing Trap
Mage - Polymorph
Paladin - Turn Evil and Repentence (for Retadins, and its cd matches its duration).
Priest - Mind Control (which you don't really want to use), and an undead-only fear.
Rogue - Sap
Shaman - Hex and Bind Elemental
Warlock - Fear and Banish
Warrior - Glyphed Intimidating Shout

Of these, Hex and Polymorph are by far the strongest. They each only affect humanoids and beasts.

The ONLY CC on this list useful for (more or less) every mob are Freezing Trap and Sap (and Repentence, but that's spec-specific).

Humanoids can be comfortably CC'd by Mages, Shaman, and Retadins (though the latter is more limited)
Dragonkin can be comfortably CC'd by Druids and Retadins.
Elementals can be comfortably CC'd by Shaman and Warlocks.
Bears can be comfortably CC'd by all of the above.

There are other fears, most notably Fear (lol), which are more last-resort CCs, because they have a high risk of pulling additional mobs.

But let's suppose you didn't get a Rogue, Hunter or Retadin. Now you're playing the rocks-paper-scissors game, and whether or not you're screwed depends on what heroic you're doing. If you have elementals to CC, then that Shaman or Warlock won't be so bad. The Shaman is still useful for Humanoids, the Warlock less so. A Mage is solid against Humanoids, but can't help against Dragonkin.

If you need to CC Dragonkin, better hope you have a Druid in your group.

Etc.

The power levels are just all over the place. If you get a Rogue, a Mage, a Shaman healer, a Hunter/Retadin, and a Warrior or DK tank, you're team setup is WAY more equipped than pretty much any other possibility available. You can CC any mob type, and your group can easily hold 4 mobs in long-term CC.

On the other hand, without a Retadin, a Hunter, or a Rogue, you're now playing a much more annoying game.
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#23 Nov 28 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Stuff about Cata CC


You forgot Shackle Undead (or did they get rid of that spell?), but there were very few undead in Cataclysm Heroics.

Quote:
Ozruk was doable without any addons. I solo'd Stonecore around 80 times this expansion without any Cata-plugin. And YES I know I was level 90.


Getting hit for 120k or such as a Level 90 is a "meh" attack that you can easily heal through.

Getting hit for 120k while you were Level 85 meant instant death unless you were wearing purples (which you weren't during 4.0 most likely). only tanks had enough health to withstand that AoE Doom Attack of his. Said attack only gave you 1.5s to move or thereabouts and you pretty much needed to know it was coming ahead of time. Theroetically you could move as soon as the game warned you and MAYBE escape it, but that's a big maybe -- any bit of lag means you died.

And, of course, they nerfed Ozruk too -- that was like in 4.1 or 4.2 or something. You're fighting the nerfed version. The original version was simply ridiculous, and a lot of people complained it was ridiculous, even some raiders complained about that fight.

#24 Nov 28 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You forgot Shackle Undead (or did they get rid of that spell?), but there were very few undead in Cataclysm Heroics.


I probably just missed it.

But same deal. Outside of Priests and Freezing Trap/Sap/Repentence, very few CC styles work on Undead.

Fear, of course, has a wide reach. But I'd rather try no-CC before I try using fear...
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#25 Nov 28 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
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Ozruk was doable without any addons. I solo'd Stonecore around 80 times this expansion without any Cata-plugin. And YES I know I was level 90.


Getting hit for 120k or such as a Level 90 is a "meh" attack that you can easily heal through.

Getting hit for 120k while you were Level 85 meant instant death unless you were wearing purples (which you weren't during 4.0 most likely). only tanks had enough health to withstand that AoE Doom Attack of his. Said attack only gave you 1.5s to move or thereabouts and you pretty much needed to know it was coming ahead of time. Theroetically you could move as soon as the game warned you and MAYBE escape it, but that's a big maybe -- any bit of lag means you died.

And, of course, they nerfed Ozruk too -- that was like in 4.1 or 4.2 or something. You're fighting the nerfed version. The original version was simply ridiculous, and a lot of people complained it was ridiculous, even some raiders complained about that fight.



Uhm, my whole point was that I was not getting hit by his AoE ability, Shatter. So it doesn't matter how much HP I have.

And yes, they nerfed him about 2 months after release. His cast was made slightly longer and there was a visual added that alerted you further. But if you had DBM it was avoidable even before that. Heroics where part of endgame progression then, so I see no problem with it requiring addons.


Edit to add: Okay seems like I was overestimating CC at that given time.

Regarding Fear, wasn't the Glyph of Fear changed somewhere around the start of Cata to have it make feared enemies tremble in place instead of running away? Still not a great CC, but slightly less prone of backfiring. Smiley: lol

Edited, Nov 28th 2013 2:33pm by TherealLogros
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#26 Nov 28 2013 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
And yes, they nerfed him about 2 months after release. His cast was made slightly longer and there was a visual added that alerted you further. But if you had DBM it was avoidable even before that. Heroics where part of endgame progression then, so I see no problem with it requiring addons.


Edit to add: Okay seems like I was overestimating CC at that given time.

Regarding Fear, wasn't the Glyph of Fear changed somewhere around the start of Cata to have it make feared enemies tremble in place instead of running away? Still not a great CC, but slightly less prone of backfiring. Smiley: lol


Sort of rings a bell. I didn't have a lock, so I didn't track their CC closely.

Also, I'm firmly against any design situation in which an addon becomes required. Addons should make your life easier and adjust the game to your aesthetics. They should NEVER make the game noticeably easier.
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