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#1 Oct 03 2013 at 10:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was not happy with Cata, and when they announced that the next expac was Kung Fu Panda Adventure Island I tapped out of WoW for a year. I hated, mocked, snickered at and made a fair number of pokemon jokes.

I just killed Garrosh Normal tonight and finished the Wrathion questline as well.

I have to say that I am fairly impressed. The story was solid (for WoW), the raiding was fantastic, there was enough stuff to keep me busy with perhaps too much time between ToT release and SoO. Probably the most fun raiding since TBC (props to Ulduar though).


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#2 Oct 04 2013 at 12:11 AM Rating: Excellent
They really have hit it out of the park with MoP, which is just what they needed after Cata. 10/10, would play again.
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#3 Oct 04 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nice to hear from you Bodhi, I always enjoyed your posts.

I haven't raided much this expansion, and pretty much gave up on it months ago. I'm not even playing a max level toon these days.

I'm probably in a minority, but I frankly don't care much for the modern raiding mechanics. In my opinion, they've just gotten ridiculously complicated. It's just not fun for me. I'm glad others are enjoying them, though, that's cool. Maybe I'll get a look at them eventually, but for now I'm happier not stressing over rep grinds and gear upgrades and learning fights.
#4 Oct 04 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
One thing I've noticed with raiding is a trend towards personal responsibility for your success. In Normal modes at least, there are less "kill everyone because you screwed up" and more "kill you specifically because you screwed up." Which is awesome.

Another thing that I noticed is that the fights have a LOT going on, usually, yes. However if you focus on things that are only relevant to you, then there really isn't much. For example: Heroic Twin Consorts from the previous tier. All three roles have jobs, but not a lot of overlap. Tanks tank the adds, healers have to heal at the proper times, and dps kill sh*t. If someone screws up, then it's more that person dies than the raid. The raid may die by extension, but not directly because the idiot dps stood in the bad. And while the fight has a lot going on, as a dps I can ignore the healing debuff or picking up adds with no real repercussions.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 3:29pm by IDrownFish
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#5 Oct 04 2013 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hopefully they're building matchmaking officially into the Blizzard UI so that guilds like mine that dropped below the threshold of raiding viability will be able to get back in the game, on a semi-serious flex level, in the next expansion.

Other than that, I think the experience has been as good as it ever was. The past couple of patches I think are really zoning in on the feel they want to have going forward. Heck, in the Barrens I even grouped with someone who ended up on my friends list - which hadn't happened to a max level character since Wrath...
#6 Oct 04 2013 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Raiding does need work. Tanks simply had to juggle stacks for the majority of the expac and use CD's for certain timers for about 85% of the fights this expac.

Healer balance is still off. Absorbs vs Hots needs some work as they don't mesh well. Shaman mechanics need some love.

But personal responsibility is definitely the thing. Though most fights are tuned tightly enough that dying to something stupid early in the fight can mean an enrage timer later on. We don't see TBC mechanics where a random person gets a debuff and needs to run out or else blow up the raid (Twins in SWP for example).

In terms of complexity, I still think every expansion needs a fun primer dungeon for new players or semi casuals to enjoy. Whether that is 5 man heroic, heroic scenario or Flex versions of normal raids who knows? At one point I hoped that LFR would be that, it turned into barrens chat with a mix of 5 hour AV gone bad.

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 7:24pm by bodhisattva
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#7 Oct 04 2013 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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One thing they really really need to tone down is the ridiculous "MOVE OR DIE!" in Solo content.

Nearly everything on the Timeless Isle has "MOVE OR DIE!" attacks, the Isle of Thunder had some mobs that did this + ridiculous getting aggro by something every 2 steps + things being overtuned to make it ridiculously difficult on players who weren't raid geared.

Casuals and older people (like my mom for example) absolutely hate the Timeless Isle, because some of us don't have ridiculously fast reflexes. That stuff is OK for Heroics, or Raids, but why did they feel the need to do that to open world content? And what's with all the ridiculously powerful mobs you NEED a group for? Didn't they learn anything from Group Quests in the past? They were relevant and good for about 2 weeks... then after that, nobody did them, 'cept once here and there, usually a guild of players or something.

On The Scryers, I already see vast areas of the Timeless Isle untouched because there are too few players to kill some of the elite rares. Sometimes the Yaungol on the hill go untouched for hours and the smoldering chests are hard as balls to actually get to, and open. Impossible without dying at least once or twice.

And God Forbid you want to actually... *gasp*... run away from the overpowered yaungol. Oh, no, we can't have that, can we? *WHAM!* you die. Every time. Unless you were on a mount and even then you still get hit at least once, sometimes twice.If you weren't wearing 485+ avg, you are probably dead on the 2nd hit.

.... the Timeless Isle and crap like it is quickly pushing my mom to quit WoW because she simply cannot handle the "MOVE RIGHT F---ING NOW OR DIE!!!" attacks that everything has and she gets more and more frustrated with each death and I can't always save her, no matter what class I try bringing.

It is kinda sad, because it is one of the few games out there she can actually play, that she actually likes, and Blizz's infatuation with sticking raid mechanics in the solo game is really ruining the fun.

Otherwise, MoP was a nice expansion... they just got too ridiculous with the mobs. "Move or die" belongs in group content, not solo content. Early MoP was Groups of Mobs meant to be AoE'd (yet not every class had awesome AoE) that dropped nothing of value and was a pure waste of time. Mid-MoP was "let's expect everybody to be Heroic Dungeon or Raid Geared before doing this!" and now Late MoP is "MOVE OR DIE!".

If the next expansion continues like this, mom is most likely going to quit which will probably kill my own enthusiasm as well because she's the only person who is regularly online that I know, and it is pretty boring playing by myself.

EDIT: Oh, and another thing I absolutely hate? Mobs that have overpowered chain-cast spells. Fire Elementals that do 75k damage a pop and chain-cast the spell faster than you can interrupt and there's no way to avoid that crap. You can interrupt one, then stun it... and then you're in for a world of pain. Or the Steam Elementals that do 150k a pop, whose spells can sometimes hit you even while you are running away from it (despite the on-screen visuals making it look like you SHOULD be able to evade it). Frogs that have simply overpowered DoTs. Snakes that are impossible without lots of incoming heals ("***** you, Rogues and Warriors, go fight something else", eh?). Pets being useless because their taunts don't work on a lot of mobs.. why even play a pet class, then?

Edited, Oct 4th 2013 9:14pm by Lyrailis
#8 Oct 06 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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azwing wrote:
I'm probably in a minority, but I frankly don't care much for the modern raiding mechanics. In my opinion, they've just gotten ridiculously complicated. It's just not fun for me. I'm glad others are enjoying them, though, that's cool.


This.

Really want to get into tanking, but most, if not all, boss fights have some kind of mechanic that will cripple the group, either through a wipe (petrify from those stone lions, for instance) or by killing a tank. I've read some guides, but there are so many things to keep track of. So far, it's easier to just join as a healer/damage dealer, but it's not exactly helping me get into tanking.
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#9 Oct 06 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
azwing wrote:
I'm probably in a minority, but I frankly don't care much for the modern raiding mechanics. In my opinion, they've just gotten ridiculously complicated. It's just not fun for me. I'm glad others are enjoying them, though, that's cool.


This.

Really want to get into tanking, but most, if not all, boss fights have some kind of mechanic that will cripple the group, either through a wipe (petrify from those stone lions, for instance) or by killing a tank. I've read some guides, but there are so many things to keep track of. So far, it's easier to just join as a healer/damage dealer, but it's not exactly helping me get into tanking.


Most of the fights in MoP were to my liking. Some in HoF annoyed me to no end and Terasse was rather boring. Aside from that I really enjoy the current state of raiding. But then I'm a ranged DD and occasionally a Healer. Don't know a thing about how tanking feels.
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#10 Oct 06 2013 at 5:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
azwing wrote:
I'm probably in a minority, but I frankly don't care much for the modern raiding mechanics. In my opinion, they've just gotten ridiculously complicated. It's just not fun for me. I'm glad others are enjoying them, though, that's cool.


This.

Really want to get into tanking, but most, if not all, boss fights have some kind of mechanic that will cripple the group, either through a wipe (petrify from those stone lions, for instance) or by killing a tank. I've read some guides, but there are so many things to keep track of. So far, it's easier to just join as a healer/damage dealer, but it's not exactly helping me get into tanking.


How about the ridiculously hard to dodge crap the two main mobs of Will of the Emperor?

I know there's some sort of graphic, but...

1). I have trouble reading where the bad zone actually is *before* it happens (those little blue lines near his weapon are supposed to tell you somehow)
2). You get 1.5 seconds to move and that's it.

No manner of swinging my camera around would actually make the little blue lines actually make sense as to where the "BAM!" area is going to happen. I couldn't imagine actually trying to tank the stupid thing and if the tank eats more than a couple in a row, he's going down even on LFR. I've seen it happen, even.

When I'm there as a melee.... if everything is dead, I'll stand back and throw ranged at it.

Edited, Oct 6th 2013 7:58pm by Lyrailis
#11 Oct 06 2013 at 6:17 PM Rating: Excellent
Ugh. Will of the Emperor was a colossal ***** to fight on Heroic. No thanks, never going back there ever.

I feel like T14 was the weakest tier this expansion. I really liked Tier 15, and T16 is shaping up to be a spectacular finish.
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#12 Oct 08 2013 at 2:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
azwing wrote:
I'm probably in a minority, but I frankly don't care much for the modern raiding mechanics. In my opinion, they've just gotten ridiculously complicated. It's just not fun for me. I'm glad others are enjoying them, though, that's cool.


This.

Really want to get into tanking, but most, if not all, boss fights have some kind of mechanic that will cripple the group, either through a wipe (petrify from those stone lions, for instance) or by killing a tank. I've read some guides, but there are so many things to keep track of. So far, it's easier to just join as a healer/damage dealer, but it's not exactly helping me get into tanking.


that which you complain about is why i liked tanking

holding aggro and looking the bosses nuts gets old fast
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#13 Oct 08 2013 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Horsemouth wrote:
Mazra wrote:
azwing wrote:
I'm probably in a minority, but I frankly don't care much for the modern raiding mechanics. In my opinion, they've just gotten ridiculously complicated. It's just not fun for me. I'm glad others are enjoying them, though, that's cool.


This.

Really want to get into tanking, but most, if not all, boss fights have some kind of mechanic that will cripple the group, either through a wipe (petrify from those stone lions, for instance) or by killing a tank. I've read some guides, but there are so many things to keep track of. So far, it's easier to just join as a healer/damage dealer, but it's not exactly helping me get into tanking.


that which you complain about is why i liked tanking

holding aggro and looking the bosses nuts gets old fast


All things in Moderation, is the best way to go.

No you don't want a Tank'n'Spank; those are boring as ****.

But yet, being able to stand still for more than 2 seconds would be nice too. Constant movement gets just as old, and is more tiring and stressful when you don't have a second to recover from the "oh sh---movemovemovemovemovemove" phase... especially when the "movemovemove" phase is the entire battle.

Most people don't take well to constant high-tension. Bursts of it are fine, but we need a few seconds to recover sometimes, and some of these latest fights don't seem to be giving much of that.

Even without tanking, I know sometimes as DPS, some quest mobs... for example, Zandalari Colossus over on the Isle of Thunder. He has 3 AoE attacks, and he loves to spam them constantly. If you're a melee, its hard to actually melee him for more than 2 seconds at a time before having to drop what you're doing and move. Oh, crud here's another AoE, move again! Whew... two global CDs later, he starts another AoE attack.......and Another.......and Another.....

sigh.

Also, Itoka. I hate Itoka for the same reason. Start meleeing him and its "Oh sh*t, red ring! Move!" Move away from the Ring, and its "HURR HURR IMMA THUNDER STOMP HURR!" so run away from his thunder crash stomp whatever attack. Run up to him and... "HURR HURR I'M GOING TO CONE AoE NAO!" *sigh* could you stay put and stop with the AoEs for more than 3 seconds at a time!? GAH.

Face it, some of Mists' Bosses and Quest Mobs really really make a player wish they were a hunter or warlock.... must be awesome to just stand 30 feet away and not care about what's going on....
#14 Oct 08 2013 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:

Face it, some of Mists' Bosses and Quest Mobs really really make a player wish they were a hunter or warlock.... must be awesome to just stand 30 feet away and not care about what's going on....



It really is awesome.

I have serious nerd rage when I play my other classes.
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#15 Oct 09 2013 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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The melee penalty is getting pretty ridiculous.

Being a Feral Druid is a downright nightmare in 9 out of 10 boss fights. You have to stand behind the boss AND you have back-loaded damage. Great! Smiley: thumbsup
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#16 Oct 09 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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I'm confused about why they'd even do that. That particular privilege of ranged classes has been an issue since Vanilla. If your melee dps can't get uptime on the boss, they can't dish out damage, and justifying their presence becomes far more difficult...
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#17 Oct 09 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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It was made even more ridiculous when they started removing the ranged class penalty of having to stand still to use abilities. Hunters are like ranged Rogues now. In mail armor. With a pet.

Good times, Blizzard.
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#18 Oct 09 2013 at 1:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Now, now. Don't forget about us Shadowpriests.
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#19 Oct 09 2013 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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They'll probably be phasing out the "turret mode" casting in favor of Guild Wars-esque run 'n' gun casting soon, meaning you'll get to Mind Flay on the go.

Just wish my abilities could hit stuff 30 yards away while I'm running around like a lunatic.
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#20 Oct 09 2013 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
Mazra wrote:
They'll probably be phasing out the "turret mode" casting in favor of Guild Wars-esque run 'n' gun casting soon, meaning you'll get to Mind Flay on the go.


Probably not, actually. This is something they explicitly want to avoid. Hunters are just about the only ranged class that can dps on the move, since pretty much everything is instant. Shamans can use their basic filler spell on the move, Warlocks only if they spec into it (when the other options offer higher DPS), and Mages can only cast two spells on the move on a cooldown if they talent into it.

Yeah you have to move as melee, but that kind of goes with the role, right? Always have, always will. They're much better this tier about not having antimelee fights, besides. Just about the only fighst I can think of that aren't "melee friendly" are Dark Shamans and Thokk, and that's a stretch. Dark Shamans are moving most of the time, which means you have to chase after them, but believe me: I've done my share of running up and down the Valley of Strength after them, too. And Thokk has the snail instakill mechanic from ToT going for him, but only in a phase when ranged is having a hard time DPSing too. Most of the actual DPS is spent stacked up in front of him.

This is way better, for example, than the ******* giant bug with the big "wipe the raid" circle underneath it.
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#21 Oct 10 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Probably not, actually. This is something they explicitly want to avoid. Hunters are just about the only ranged class that can dps on the move, since pretty much everything is instant. Shamans can use their basic filler spell on the move, Warlocks only if they spec into it (when the other options offer higher DPS), and Mages can only cast two spells on the move on a cooldown if they talent into it.


Elemental Shaman priority:

1. Flame Shock
2. Lava Burst
3. Earth Shock
4. Searing Totem
5. Lightning Bolt

How many of those require you to stand still? Lava Burst. You do get instant cast Lava Bursts from Lava Surge procs (Flame Shock), though. And you have a 2-minute cooldown that enables you to cast all your crap while on the move for 15 seconds.

It's true that Warlocks have to pick a talent that is inefficient from a low mobility point of view, but in a high mobility fight, it's far superior to the other two talents. That's sort of the point of having it there. Regardless, my Feral Druid does not get to pick an inefficient talent that enables him to continue his rotation from 30 yards away. The closest thing he gets is a 6-minute cooldown that allows him to spam Wrath for 45 seconds. This is only usable once per fight and requires you to swap your weapon for a spell power weapon to be efficient at all.

IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Yeah you have to move as melee, but that kind of goes with the role, right? Always have, always will. They're much better this tier about not having antimelee fights, besides. Just about the only fighst I can think of that aren't "melee friendly" are Dark Shamans and Thokk, and that's a stretch.


You forgot the celestial dragon guy who makes the floor disappear.

And yes, melee range sort of goes with the melee role, but currently ranged classes have very few disadvantages compared to melee classes. The increase in mobility makes it worse.

Edited, Oct 10th 2013 8:01pm by Mazra
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#22 Oct 10 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
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I suppose there _IS_ an Enhance Shaman cooldown that lets you use SOME abilities (plus auto attack) at range... oh wait, ONE ability at Range.

lol.

Otherwise.... yeah. Being a melee sucks. It seems you just can't win with WoW; I hate questing with Ranged because there's no real way to keep crap out of my face, other than using a pet (and Timeless Isle... 'hey let's put a bunch of mobs in here that are immune to pet threat!') which means... Boomkins, Elemental Shaman, Shadow Priests, and Mages need not apply.

But yet if you want to raid, you will want a Ranged... the very guy that it sucks to be when solo, because Melee are just not very fun in boss battles.

Sometimes I feel like I can't win no matter what I do, unless you play some sort of hybrid like Druid or Shaman where you have a choice... oh wait, you need two separate gearsets to actually do that. You could focus your energy into getting Elemental/Balance Gear, and quest in crap gear for Enhance/Feral, but that makes solo not very fun when it takes you forever to kill junk (well, until the Timeless Isle came about...) with crappy blues.

So......yeah. Meh. Hopefully Blizz has learned their lesson that melee are tired of constant movement when their ranged brothers can spend MOST of a fight and not care and be able to do full (or near-full) DPS.
#23 Oct 10 2013 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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My favorite ranged class right now is Shaman. I pull lots and then spam Chain Lightning while reciting that (in)famous line from Revenge of the Sith.
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#24 Oct 11 2013 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
My favorite ranged class right now is Shaman. I pull lots and then spam Chain Lightning while reciting that (in)famous line from Revenge of the Sith.



Refresh my memory please, haven't watched it in awhile and I might just be playing elemental this evening.


Hrmmmm...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_lightning

Might even have to try SWOR again now.

Edited, Oct 11th 2013 6:52pm by Xizervexius
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#25 Oct 14 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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People like to cry about the state of WoW and the skill of the player base, particularly now that LFR is around.

Timeless Isle teaches you very simple raid mechanics and forces you to use defensives, avoid damage, and interrupt in order to be successful. It also encourages group play. It's a raid primer. If you don't do those things you are probably going to have a rough time on the isle. I also understand that people are used to doing dailies which they outgear.
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#26 Oct 15 2013 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
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bodhisattva wrote:
People like to cry about the state of WoW and the skill of the player base, particularly now that LFR is around.

Timeless Isle teaches you very simple raid mechanics and forces you to use defensives, avoid damage, and interrupt in order to be successful. It also encourages group play. It's a raid primer. If you don't do those things you are probably going to have a rough time on the isle. I also understand that people are used to doing dailies which they outgear.


The problem with the Timeless Isle, is that...

1). They give you almost no time to react to the Yaungols' abilities -- some have a 1.5 second charge time. No Raid warnings, nothing other than an unreliable graphic on the ground. I have gotten hit while standing OUTSIDE of this graphic by at least 5 feet. In fact, there was this time I ran THROUGH a Yaungol to the other side, was standing BEHIND him, and STILL got hit.... all while having 110ms ping. My WORST pings are 120ms, I commonly get 80ms and I'm doing a constant 59.9FPS (I have Vsync enabled because my monitor doesn't seem to like high framerates). You get more warning from that on a raid boss.

2). There are usually multiple Yaungol about; they are all chain-casting their deadly AoE. Usually, in a raid, you fight ONE deadly mob with a bunch of wimps if it is an AoE fight. For example, Horridon. The dino itself is deadly front and back, but the trash? Not so much. There's lightning totems, there's poison clouds, these are all easy to avoid and don't kill you in 2 seconds. In fact, my very first 2 LFR Horridon kills.... I never got hit with the boss's Double Swipe, and I only took a few tics of Lightning Totem damage. Otherwise, I never got hit the whole fight, 'cept for trash mob melee attacks. Yet, the Yaungol are nearly impossible for me, because of the ridiculous accuracy needed. Tuning the Yaungol for LFR-style raiding is fine. Tuning them for HEROIC RAIDS is not fine, since they are outdoor mobs.

3). Other people can grief you by pulling their mobs into your space. You're fighting a Yaungol and even if you do have the ridiculous Heroic Raid reflexes, someone else can pull their Yaungol into your space and now suddenly you need to dodge TWO of them at once.

4). They are the only means of getting Shaohao rep other than a piddly 250 per day. There is NO alternative. You either get 250 per day, or you kill these overpowered Yaungol. Or Both, probably. Still.

5). Even if you DO actually get to where you can kill the **** things... you take an 8 million health mob down and..........get 15 reputation. Oh wow. nice.

EDIT: 6). They chain-cast them over and over and over and over and over again. Oh, and their melees also hit for 40k a pop. You're supposed to somehow be moving 100% of the time, find time to DPS it, while constantly healing yourself? Ya, okay... how about no? If the mobs used their 1HKO attacks maybe once every 10 seconds, that'd be reasonable. But no, they chain-cast it. You can interrupt 1......then that's it. Oh, and a lot of them are un-interruptable....and GOD FORBID you want to f---ing run away from something, because even if you're on a mount, half of time, they'll STILL kill you if you get aggro by one. I'd love to know what ****** thought that up... "Gee, people might run away from these guys... we can't have that, can we? Nope! Let's make it they still kill you!"

Edited, Oct 15th 2013 1:21pm by Lyrailis
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