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3rd Quest ProblemFollow

#1 Mar 01 2013 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
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I'm on level 2 and my third quest is the Fel Moss, I've tried twice and both times I've died. Is there anyway to kill these things at the level I'm at, the weapon I have doesn't really do much damage to them. Should I find another quest away from Shadowglen, I can't seem to find any other quests there anymore besides the one.
#2 Mar 01 2013 at 10:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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You are armed with something slightly better than a spork. As a low level druid, you're learning to use your spells. Pick a mob that isn't very close to others, target it and blast it with your spells as it comes in. It should go down pretty fast. Pay attention to your mana and your cast bar. Don't pull mobs when you are low on juice for your spells. At early levels, wait a couple of seconds. Later, when you need more mana, you'll get used to drinking to refresh yourself. You'll learn how to keep the spells going; watch the cast bar and you'll notice that you can start casting as the first spell is going off.

Low level quests are pretty linear. You do a couple, level, a couple more open up ... and so it goes. That should take you up to around level 10. At level 10, you'll get more abilities, including the option to choose "Feral" or "Guardian". Those will let you do physical combat more effectively.
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#3 Mar 01 2013 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh okay, thank you so much. I forgot about my spells actually lol.
#4 Mar 02 2013 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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Until you get cat form, your play style is spamming Wrath. That's about it.
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#5 Mar 02 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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I hate not being helpful, but here was my original thought.

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#6 Mar 02 2013 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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I believe he is talking about this quest right here to which Rhode explained rather well. I was going to rip on him but I quickly remembered how poorly I used to play when I started out (I think I had a bit of trouble on them as well on my first character, a druid).

One tip I can offer Usani is this. When you do finally pick a spec, stick with the skills from said spec plus some backup healing spells to use when your health starts to dip. If you go feral don't bother using any casting spells and visa versa if you are boomkin. Mind you there are times where doing so is better than nothing but it is something that a beginning player really will not have to worry about.
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#7 Mar 02 2013 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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All of these years, all these improvements to the game in general and all the classes' leveling experience, and druids are still spamming Wrath at Level <10.... lol.

I still find that kind of funny. At least they don't have to wait to Level 20 to finally get Cat Form like they once did.
#8 Mar 02 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Just remember that low level druids can't select Guardian. They're unbearable.
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#9 Mar 02 2013 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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lmfao what automatically makes you think I'm a dude??? I'm sorry I just find that funny.

But yes that is the quest I am talking about.
#10 Mar 02 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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what automatically makes you think I'm a dude


Smiley: sly You're new here aren't you? As one person's sig once quoted:

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This is the Internet, where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents.


The other quote somehow involves a picture of a couple of cute little birds, but I'm old and don't quite remember how that one goes. Somebody help me out.
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#11 Mar 02 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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lmao I love that, thats an awesome quote!
#12 Mar 02 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I swear I really think the game is harder from lvl 1 to 20 than from 21 to 90 (at least solo content wise). Don't get discouraged and feel like this is what your going to have to look forward to the entire game.
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#13 Mar 02 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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fronglo wrote:
I swear I really think the game is harder from lvl 1 to 20 than from 21 to 90 (at least solo content wise). Don't get discouraged and feel like this is what your going to have to look forward to the entire game.


Assuming they haven't changed anything from Cata, it definitely is. When they increased the outgoing damage for mobs in CATA, their formula didn't properly take into account the severe lack of abilities at lower levels. It DID seem to take into account the availability of legacy gear, though.

Combined with the movement of healing skills on almost all classes to much later levels (if they can heal at all without a specialization), there were times when I was getting extremely discouraged leveling my Worgen druid last expansion. The most hilarious part was how imbalanced some of the level 10 skills were. Some classes could use them to one-shot anything, others were practically useless. Smiley: lol

I actually died on my Monk the other day, at like level 5 or 6? Granted, I wasn't paying attention to my health at all, but I was spamming my abilities in the tightest rotation possible, and was only fighting two mobs. So many years of WoW taught me that was a fully acceptable leveling tactic. :P
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#14 Mar 02 2013 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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Some classes _are_ extremely squishy at low levels, others are freaking gods.

Ret Paladin, for example.

You get Word of Glory at what these days, 6? You're probably going to get close to that before you leave the starter area (where there's no aggressive mobs) and once you get Word of Glory, you're basically invincible as long as you don't die before you get 1 Holy Power.

But then you have classes like Hunter, who, at Level 90 only get 1 heal if you're Beastmaster (and its a talent that only heals 30% of your health with a long-ish cooldown).

Or Rogue, even worse. They have to wait awhile before they get Recup and Healing Poison IIRC unless they changed that recently.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2013 5:19pm by Lyrailis
#15 Mar 02 2013 at 6:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hunters can pick up a skill that gives them a constant 1% hp per sec hot on them. May not sound like much but with 350k health that is 3.5k per second, more than enough for soloing (unless you enjoy standing in crap) quests and certainly enough to get one through old raids as other specs besides BM + Spirit Beast. When I was playing I always carried enough respect thingies to switch from that and Aspect of the Iron Hawk for when I wanted to do a 5 man.

But to remain on topic, druids are very weak at low levels due to the lack of utility. Have fun in the Den of **** Rap when you reach around level 7ish Usani (unless they nerfed that quest chain to the ground... in which case I hate you).
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#16 Mar 02 2013 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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D'awww, so cute. I don't remember what it was like when I first started playing, but I'm fairly confident it was not that different from the OP's experiences.

Learning was engaged and now I've been smartified. Smiley: schooled
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#17 Mar 02 2013 at 8:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Criminy wrote:
Hunters can pick up a skill that gives them a constant 1% hp per sec hot on them. May not sound like much but with 350k health that is 3.5k per second, more than enough for soloing (unless you enjoy standing in crap) quests and certainly enough to get one through old raids as other specs besides BM + Spirit Beast. When I was playing I always carried enough respect thingies to switch from that and Aspect of the Iron Hawk for when I wanted to do a 5 man.

But to remain on topic, druids are very weak at low levels due to the lack of utility. Have fun in the Den of **** Rap when you reach around level 7ish Usani (unless they nerfed that quest chain to the ground... in which case I hate you).


I do believe they did nerf it. Considerably so IIRC.

But yes, that Den sucked sooooooooooo much back then. What part about "Level 5s cannot handle multiple mobs while wearing grey/white trash gear" didn't Blizzard understand back then? lol.

EDIT: Huh, ZAM outage or something, was trying to edit this earlier. Anyways, double-quoting with 1 click ftl.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2013 10:48pm by Lyrailis
#18 Mar 03 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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I remember there was a named mob at the bottom who would utterly decimate you if the RNG gods looked down upon you with hatred. It was bad enough that one needed to group up for him and him alone if you wanted to tackle it when you were able to pick up the quest. Going to do some digging to see if I can link to him or not. If I don't edit assume I haven't found him. Could not find the npc I was looking for. Meh not really that important I suppose.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2013 11:28am by Criminy
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#19 Mar 03 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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In the Pandaren starting area, there's that quest when you have to gather some lumber from the nearby mill. There's a ! mob there (which, iirc, means anyone can attack him for credit, right?) But he's not a quest mob, and he doesn't drop green loot. He's just this stupidly powerful mob right next to quest items you need, and tackling him solo with my monk was WAY harder than it should have been.

I didn't die, but it was at the point where it was 100% RNG. I couldn't have possibly tightened my rotation more, I didn't have access to any additional skills (because someone decided Monks just don't need them), I didn't have any potions, and the Wandering Isle doesn't have mailboxes to send anything to help. And I was literally the only person in the entire zone, according to /who.

I really, really don't get it. Why go through all the trouble to revamp your leveling experience to attract new players, to turn around and make the first 20 as painful as you possibly can? And their decisions are so confusing even then. For example, Arcane Mages get Arcane Blast, but they can't use their Arcane Charges for another 2 levels. So they're just stuck with ridiculously high mana costs, which makes AB useless--just use Frostbolt. More mana efficient and you can kite.

But a new player is obviously going to assume, from the fact that they just specialized into Arcane and AB was their brand new sparkly ability listed as core to the spec, that it's what they should be using. Nope, 2 levels of pain and downtime if they try.

/sigh
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#20 Mar 03 2013 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aye that mob in the Wandering Isles is a royal ****. Nearly died to him myself. He does remind me of that barrow's den in the Teldrassil though. Smiley: tongue

I agree that they messed up a tad bit on various spec's and their special. But hey, it isn't like WoW leveling is hard per say. Just a chore at lower levels if you spec wrong or in the case of my first character spec boomkin and melee stuff to death. Smiley: thumbsup
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#21 Mar 03 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been playing the 11 day trial, to see if I want to re-sub. I'm at about 70% in the no category.

Thing is, I'm sure the level 85-90 stuff is fun. The story is starting to get interesting again, after how boring it was last expansion. But I have altitis, and if leveling isn't fun, it's a big issue for me.

Because leveling actually isn't fun anymore. I get why they'd want to streamline things, but they just left it feeling so empty.

Getting to level 10 is horrendous for every class. You have no skills, you can barely use your class mechanics (if you can use them at all), and the difficulty is just a headache if you aren't using legacy gear (and stupidly boring if you are). You can't play creatively, because creative play requires tools that can be used in different ways. Once upon a time, leveling a Mage was about switching between Frostbolt and Fireball to manage your damage-to-mana ratio, and keep your enemy snared, while you kited them. Frost Nova, Polymorph, and Frost Armor added to this. Wands helped keep mana up, so you didn't have downtime. And Fire Blast was super heavy on mana, so it was something you used tactically.

Now you just spam Frostfire Bolt. At level 10, you replace that with Frostbolt or Fireball. And then that's what you spam until you hit 15, when you replace that with Scorch spam, because Scorch is dirt cheap, can be cast while moving, and does just as good damage. Sure, eventually you'll get other abilities that make something else worth using, but that's just terrible design, and these issues seem to continue at least until you're in the late 40s for all classes.

That's ridiculously boring. You don't get to choose talents anymore which, combined with the lack of skill training and class quests, completely sucked the fun out of even gaining a level.

And while Cata definitely updated the leveling experience from a story/storytelling perspective, it doesn't really rival GW2's streamlined quest system or TOR's single player experience. Even with TOR's stupid experience limitations, it's still way more fun to level up in that game than it is in WoW. By a massive margin. Honestly, even with the Cata update, WoW's experience is only really only slightly better than LotRO's leveling content.

And without the event systems of GW2/RIFT? Meh.

But it's actually sad, because I don't understand how they could make so many bad choices at once. It's like every single design decision was made independently of each other, and no one bothered to actually think about what the player experience would be. How that happens, I have no clue. But the reality is that leveling might actually be more fun if they just gave you everything from the start, letting you specialize at level one.

And that's really sad, because earning something new is one of the best parts of playing an RPG. :( ****, I even liked unlocking passive skills for Hope's sentinel role in FFXIII, despite almost never using Hope, never playing as Hope, and never playing with Hope as a Sentinel...
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#22 Mar 03 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know, I feel as though the concept of putting five points in a tree to shave off a grand total of .5 seconds off your heal is extremely boring. At least the way they have it now they cut out those "choices" you could make and just focus on specific spells (which you received about as frequently as you do now). Not to mention you don't have to be frost to get icy veins or BM to pick up Spirit Bond. That alone makes this system superior in my eyes.

Rift dynamic events are fun when you are new to the game. Eventually though you don't see an event and go "Woot time to kick some ****!", you see them and go "Oh lord... wonder if people are going to show up for this or am I going to be forced to do something else while I wait for this crap to go away...".

I should also note that I personally found TOR boring as ****. It is equivalent to WoW combat, dragged out farther, with mediocre cut scenes you have to watch in order to understand what the **** is going on. Smiley: snore
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#23 Mar 03 2013 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Criminy wrote:
I don't know, I feel as though the concept of putting five points in a tree to shave off a grand total of .5 seconds off your heal is extremely boring. At least the way they have it now they cut out those "choices" you could make and just focus on specific spells (which you received about as frequently as you do now). Not to mention you don't have to be frost to get icy veins or BM to pick up Spirit Bond. That alone makes this system superior in my eyes.

Rift dynamic events are fun when you are new to the game. Eventually though you don't see an event and go "Woot time to kick some ****!", you see them and go "Oh lord... wonder if people are going to show up for this or am I going to be forced to do something else while I wait for this crap to go away...".

I should also note that I personally found TOR boring as ****. It is equivalent to WoW combat, dragged out farther, with mediocre cut scenes you have to watch in order to understand what the **** is going on. Smiley: snore


Shaving time off a spell was better than getting nothing of any interest for 15 levels. And, let's face it, most of the talent choices you make are ridiculously uninteresting from a leveling perspective. Let's take Mages as an example. You're obviously going to choose Scorch at your first option, because you have no reason to be thinking about something like raid DPS. The only possible exception I can see is if you're PVPing and want access to PoM. But even then, I wouldn't choose it. Cast scorch while strafing away from my enemy vs. cast one instant Pyroblast (which is only about double the damage of Scorch) every 1.5 seconds. The answer is obvious.

Choice 2, your defensive option. Two of them are heavily skewed towards PVP/endgame, the other is Ice Barrier, which lasts a minute and has a 25 second cast time. It's the vastly superior option for leveling.

Choice 3, you have the option of two different frost novas or a silence. You already have counterspell, and you won't need another interrupt while leveling. So it's your choice between Ring of Frost or Ice Ward. If you aren't leveling Frost, the answer is clearly Ring of Frost. If you are leveling Frost, the answer is still probably Ring of Frost, though Ice Ward might be attractive (because you can cast it on the elemental). But even then, RoF has double the duration. Ice Ward's shorter Cooldown isn't as attractive in this scenario, because Frost already has access to a second FN via the Elemental.

Choice 4, another survivability one. You're probably going to be going with Cold Snap, because you shouldn't be needing Cauterize or Greater Invisibility (Invis should be enough).

Choice 5, The first real "choice". But not really. Nether Tempest randomly damages nearby enemies, so that's out. Living Bomb's strength lies in having it up on 3 targets at a time, so that's out. Frost Bomb it is. Though I suppose you might go with LB, if you're killing things so fast that the 6 delay for FB's damage is too long.

I'm really not seeing any interesting choices here. For endgame, sure. But they're terrible for leveling. You wait 15 levels just to get to choose between 3 utility spells you should never have reason to use in solo PVE content? Not interesting. At all. Their build system is... fine... for endgame. But it's actually the worst leveling system I have seen in an RPG in a very long time.

As for the rate you get new skills. the problem is that all the interesting abilities have been relegated to high levels or locked into specs. If they had just locked the talent-based skills into the specialization, it would have been one thing. But spells like Frostbolt and Fireball are now spec-locked. Druids don't get healing touch until level 26. BACKSTAB IS LEVEL 40. Yeah, that doesn't matter for solo leveling, but it sure makes playing a Sub Rogue suck a **** of a lot more in groups. Good thing they replaced their main combo builder with a 24 second DoT. You know how mobs tend to live that long.

Yeah.

[EDIT]

As for TOR, the cutscenes were pretty much the same thing you get in any BioWare game. There wasn't any meaningful decrease in quality there. It feels way more like playing DAO than it does playing an MMO (while leveling, at least).

And while I agree that WoW's combat is better than TOR's in general, I don't think there's any way in which WoW does solo combat better. In TOR, you're almost always fighting groups of mobs that actually support each other. That means tactical gameplay is vastly rewarded even in solo content. Establishing a kill order, using your CC, and properly using your companion (whether you actively use their abilities or not) is a huge influence on your ability to take down the enemy easily. Because you can actaully die.

For most of WoW combat for most of WoW's history, you could auto-attack most classes to level cap. If you have legacy gear or play an AA-heavy class, you can still do that. You can't do that in TOR. Well, for one becasue they don't have AA, but also because spamming your base ability will get you killed.

The difference here is whether or not you are actually playing the game.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2013 4:39pm by idiggory
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#24 Mar 03 2013 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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I will agree that Mage and Rogue are just too heavily PvP-based as far as Talents go.

Even as my Lv85 Rogue/Mage I was staring at the Talents and going "WTF, these are all PvP except Healing Poison!" Healing Poison is very obviously the Solo PvE choice, but the rest of that stuff? Meh.

I felt like no matter what I clicked, it wouldn't really do much either way.
#25 Mar 03 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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I kinda feel like Druid is the same way. I mean, why would your level 90 talent choices be two healing options and a passive +6% to your primary stat? Granted, one of them will give a 20% buff to damage, which is nice for burn phases, but the passive is still the clear winner for all things PVE. And that's the 90 point talent! That should be the most exciting of all of them! Instead, every single PVE Druid will have the same one (exception, Resto, which might want the oh-sh*t button, so they at least get to decide according to their play style).

I will be charitable and grant that hybrids are much harder to create interesting talent options for. But that just makes Mage/Rogue even more egregious--they should be WAY easier to create meaningful talent options, because there are way fewer factors to consider between their specializations.

The real problem is that I can't help but feel that the classes with interesting talent options are the minority. If I'm playing a Death Knight in PVE nearly every choice is clear for my role (DPS, Tank, PVP) with the only real exceptions coming from whether or not encounters have certain mechanics.

Tier 1- Are you Frost? Plague Leach. Otherwise, you take Rolling Blood for AoE and Unholy Blight for single target.
Tier 2- Purgatory. If the encounter is heavy on magic damage, you can take AMZ. If you need something to prevent fear/charm, Lichborne.
Tier 3- Death's Advance, no exceptions.
Tier 4- Death Siphon, no exceptions.
Tier 5- Only pick your poison one. But that's because these are all functionally about the same. If you care about a 4k dps gap, you go blood tap. Otherwise, who the **** cares? The only real difference is that you have to actually manage one of them, where the other two are passives. Nothing about this is interesting, at least to me. I looked at that tier, and all I could think was "Omg, I don't care."
Tier 6- 100% encounter specific, because none have any value in a tank-n-spank.

The thing about encounter-specific talents is that they aren't interesting. There's no real value there. Because you'll typically never want both. And you're obviously going to respec for the fight, so why bother making them talents at all? Lichborne does nothing in a fight without CC, AMZ does nothing in a fight without burst magic damage. Might as well just give me access to them, since it's generally rare I'd want both in one fight.

Idk, I just don't see why I should care. Once upon a time having access to AMZ felt important, because I couldn't just switch on the fly to get Lichborne. Well, I could, but that meant sacificing damage buffs from Blood. It was interesting to weigh the costs about whether to take it.

Now? There's nothing interesting there. It's not really about sacrifices, it's about taking whatever the fight tells me to take. I don't really sacrifice anything because there's nothing there I care about. I really don't care if I have Purgatory or not, because the chance of it actually saving me as a dps is so low.

I'll grant that these choices can be interesting if you're the tank, because then you'll be dealing with survivability nonstop, which makes changes to the way you do that important. For a dps? Don't care at all. Not because I don't like surviving, but because none of these provide a meaningful impact to the way I survive in typical play. The essential gist is the same. Avoid the goo, hit the button if the encounter means button.
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#26 Mar 03 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Druid talents?

Seriously?

I loved some of those talents. +movement speed fulltime? uh yeah.

+attack power anytime I heal, and +healing anytime I melee? awesome, awesome talent.

Instant-cast usable in all shapeshift ability every 60 seconds that does more healing than normal? ****. Yes.

Typhoon, in Cat Form? *BLEEEP YES* This makes Pandarian Rares easy. It interrupts un-interruptable spells.

+20 Energy when I use a 5CP Finisher? Cool!

The only talent I feel "meh" about is the Lv75 one. Probably take the roar one.

EDIT: Looking at MoP's talent calculator, Cat Form is actually Level SIX now, not 10. That's awesome!

Edited, Mar 3rd 2013 9:36pm by Lyrailis
#27 Mar 03 2013 at 9:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dig, it was always about whatever the fight took. Under the old system, that meant going to your favorite theorycrafting site and using whatever the "optimal" distribution of points was unless you were facing a particular situation (usually also detailed on various sites) that required you to reset your talents. Most of us could go through months at a time without having to touch talents beyond that. Although I mildly miss the illusion of gradual progress, the current system works just fine for me. I don't really miss the days of having to spend talents to get some useless filler so that I could get something further up the tree.

Not to be a wet blanket, but if you don't like the game then it may not be your cup of tea. You're kinda binging on Wall O'Text rants.
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#28 Mar 03 2013 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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You're kinda binging on Wall O'Text rants.


It's like you don't know me at all. Smiley: madSmiley: madSmiley: mad

The point you're missing is that respecs happened within trees, which meant meaningful sacrifices to alter a spec for situations. Yeah, Unholy DKs might respec to nab Antimagic Zone. Frost DKs, however, wouldn't be. Even if AMZ would be useful for a fight, completely altering their play style to use a spec they hadn't optimized their gear for was far from optimal.

If I wanted to use AMZ, I had to drop dps talents to get it. And because of that, it was actually a sacrifice to take the ability. And not one easily calculated, because there's really no way to calculate the effect of a utility skill when TCing. That meant it was up to me (or, well, my guild) to determine whether or not I wanted to make that sacrifice.

That's no longer true of the new system. It isn't a meaningful choice to drop Purgatory in place of AMZ or Lichborne, because there's no particular reason I'd desire Purgatory in the first place. It saps value from the concept of respeccing. It's no longer about weighing pros or cons, figuring out if I want to lose some dps for utility or survivability, or if it was better to just pump up my damage. The very notion of what a talent is just seems useless now. Because you AREN'T more talented than other characters now. Not really. More talented than a level 10, sure. But you're just... there... now.

And yes, the Druid talent tree isn't interesting. Outside of Tier 4, everything is more or less set by your specialization, or what specific CC would be useful. Even then, Tier 4 has a clear winner based on encounter. But at least all 3 talents have meaningful impact on play style and constitute an actual sacrifice to move from one to the other.

There are some interesting talents there, yes. The probably isn't the individual talents, it's the arrangement of them. Yeah, I love Wild Charge and Feral Swiftness. What I don't love is how clearly preferable Wild Charge is for kitties and Feral Swiftness for Boomkins. Instantly jumping back into melee range as a kitty (or jumping out just before a blast fires)? Yes please. With that short a CD, Feral Swiftness can't compare. But most Boomkin movement is going to be avoiding small ground AoEs, which makes something without a CD preferable. Being a lot slower than a cat helps add value, too.

Outside of Tier 4, yes, the Druid talent tree isn't interesting. Tier 4 is the only tier where you'll be making a meaningful decision on a talent that will actually change your play style and constitute a sacrifice to change. Exception is if you're brazen enough to try a much more complicated kitty priority system for a tiny dps buff. For 99% of kitties, Heart of the Wild is the clear choice.

So, yes, it's not interesting. Pretending like most of these tiers actually represent a choice is absurd. The answer for most of them is clear. It's not even a question of preference, it's an objective notion of what works best in PVE content.
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#29 Mar 03 2013 at 10:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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If I didn't know better I could safely assume that you were new to the mmo genre. It has always been about picking what talents are best for <x> situation and using them with zero choice in the matter (if you are being even quasi serious about progression). It doesn't matter if you have 6 or 50 talents to spend. The end result is still the same.

Leveling I could see one being reminiscent about the old way talents were handled. The catch was there was nothing to really play around with, your options boiled down to three things.
1) You are new to the game and are going to put points in whatever tickles your fancy.
2) You have been playing for a while and are going to put points into what you think is best without looking up what is best.
3) You looked up what can theoretically pull the top dps and just go with that because hey, that's what the computer says you can pull so that is what everyone expects you to do.
Let's face it, even while leveling you are still going to lean towards the optimal play style if you have any experience at #3. Unlike #2 and especially #1, your goal isn't to just dink around and have fun, it is to get to max level.

So Blizzard, after noticing people are for the most part just using templates they find off the net for leveling, decided to scrap the whole talent system altogether. Tie each spec's signature spell (something they used to get at 40/50) to the spec you want to go so you can rock it at 10 (results generally are good) and then leaving the rest of the interesting talent choices for you to choose from as you reach certain level brackets. All the extra fluff that you would normally be mindlessly putting points into because they were no brainer skills are going to be automatically learned. Amusingly enough you can look through your spell book and see each talent and when you learn it, so it isn't like you are sitting there wondering when you are going to get a new spell or something like that.

On a side note, I will have to politely disagree that ToR combat was vastly rewarding compared to WoW. -shrug- Maybe I am not the type of person that enjoys combat to be dragged out for way too long.
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#30 Mar 03 2013 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
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If your fights were lasting super long in TOR, then you were making some serious mistakes. Properly handled, no group should have taken longer than 30 seconds. 1 minute max. And that's 1 minute for 4 or 5 mobs, not for one.

But I think I'm still not getting my point across. I'm not complaining that the talents themselves are uninteresting, I'm complaining that the choices are uninteresting. Because each talent in most of the trees has a very strong PVE, PVP or spec skew, the act of choosing a talent has become extremely uninteresting.

The blunt fact of the matter is that you will barely ever make an interesting choice when choosing talents. That was not true once upon a time, because the act of choosing a talent tree was huge. Yeah, every Unholy DK was going to use the same spec on some fight (assuming they were similarly geared). But their talent choices for that fight could radically change their play style compared to the decisions Frost would make for exact same fight. That's a big distinction, and it was meaningful for the player and for the raid. That's not an empty choice at all, because you can't just switch to the other spec and perform well.

Specs still exist, but they're only for adding the abilities core to the game play. Almost all utility skills are either unique to the class or are talent options.

That radically changes game play and homogenizes classes by taking the power of choice away from the player.

It's no longer just true that every Unholy DK uses the same spec. Now it's true that EVERY DK uses the same spec (with one minor variation in Tier 1). Blood, Frost, and Unholy. Outside of the choice in Tier 1, the spec remains the same.

THAT is why the power of choice is no longer interesting. Because your specialization, uncoupled from talents, means almost nothing. It impacts nothing but the way in which you inflict damage. The way you interact with the raid and the rest of the players around you is the same as every other DK. Okay, sorry, that's not 100% correct--Unholy DKs need to throw Unholy Frenzy on their top DPS during Bloodlust. But then that's it.

Antimagic Zone used to be strategically an Unholy-only skill. Lichborne could be reached by Blood and Unholy, but it was a significant dps drop to do so, so only Frost gained access to that fear break. But Frost gained access to other utility talents that were great for raids that Unholy could not provide (which they've at least sort of kept by giving them their aura).

It made playing a certain spec more interesting, because it had a meaningful effect on what you could bring to the table. Now? Not so much. Every <insert class> in the raid probably has a nearly identical spec to you. There will be minor variations by specialization, and that's it. But the utilities will almost always be universal.

The sad part is that, because the utility talents are almost all completely situational, they could just go ahead and make all three of them standard to each class and the only thing it would influence was PVP. That's not an interesting talent system.
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#31 Mar 04 2013 at 5:06 AM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
Druid talents?

Seriously?

I loved some of those talents. +movement speed fulltime? uh yeah.


While I've come to appreciate the Druid talents more than I did at Pandaria launch, I still feel the first tier is a major letdown. You get to choose between a blink, a charge and a passive speed buff. Charge wins out in PvP. Speed wins out if you're Bear a lot (because Cat already has a speed buff). Blink wins out if you're insane and think it'll save your *** ever.
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#32 Mar 04 2013 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
All of these years, all these improvements to the game in general and all the classes' leveling experience, and druids are still spamming Wrath at Level <10.... lol.


Nah, only for five levels. Smiley: nod So the very first starting area where there are no aggressive mobs, really. At 6 you get cat and mangle and can take Wrath and Moonfire off your toolbar. (Unless you like them.) It was a big improvement when they gave hunters pets from level 1, but I don't know that they can do the same with druid. The OP was whacking things with her staff because she didn't know she should use the abilities on her toolbar - new people starting from scratch need to learn the basic mechanics. I think throwing shapeshifting at them from level 1 might be too frustrating.
#33 Mar 04 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I kinda feel like Druid is the same way. I mean, why would your level 90 talent choices be two healing options and a passive +6% to your primary stat? Granted, one of them will give a 20% buff to damage, which is nice for burn phases, but the passive is still the clear winner for all things PVE. And that's the 90 point talent! That should be the most exciting of all of them! Instead, every single PVE Druid will have the same one (exception, Resto, which might want the oh-sh*t button, so they at least get to decide according to their play style).


Actually, the 20% mini-zerk + healing is the clear winner for most cases. The passive boost isn't bad, but there are a lot of times when 30 seconds of increased damage/passive healing is clearly better. It's so good in fact that (last I heard) 5.2 is nerfing it to 10%. Sad bear tank here Smiley: frown
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#34 Mar 04 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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True, I didn't realize the TC thread for Boomkins on EJ was already updated to 5.2. HotW is the clear winner for dps, now. NV is taken for its healing component, not for maximizing your dps.

Feral hasn't changed. Prime dps comes from using NS and DoC together to buff your abilities. But it's stupidly annoying to actually pull off, because kitties don't have a structured rotation. So only masochists take it (though only masochists play kitties, so...) HotW is competitive dps that's not going to be slammed by the flow of combat or a minor *****-up with your rotation. Theoretical higher dps with probable lower dps really makes it less attractive. Apparently, Rip being bugged is one of the only reasons it's actually even viable now. Though that's not likely to change, because it's been bugged for years...

What? I did say kitties were masochists.
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#35 Mar 04 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, Usani! See what you started?!? Smiley: laugh

Anyway, stick to it. You are going to absolutely love playing this game as a Druid.

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#36 Mar 04 2013 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Well, as long as she enjoys JOHN @#$%ING MADDEN.

If just the idea of something sounding like that disturbs you, even knowing nothing about what it is, you might want to go Boomkin until you're more comfortable with the game. Smiley: lol
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#37 Mar 04 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Well, as long as she enjoys JOHN @#$%ING MADDEN.

If just the idea of something sounding like that disturbs you, even knowing nothing about what it is, you might want to go Boomkin until you're more comfortable with the game. Smiley: lol


I second that. Could go bur and tank also. But who in their right mind wants to do that on their first go. Smiley: tongue
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#38 Mar 05 2013 at 4:55 AM Rating: Good
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I'm kinda glazing out on the Wall o' Text here, but I'm surprised to see complaints about how leveling to 10 is hard. I've just done a couple recently, including one on a Pacifist Run which meant no killing any mobs at all (so no quests that involved killing anything), and I still managed to get to 10 in a couple of hours with no deaths. What is this difficulty you speak of?

ETA: Not bashing the OP. When you are new to a game you can't be expected to know the mechanics, but for seasoned players to complain how hard it is... Boring, yes, I'll grant you, but difficult or time consuming, no.

Edited, Mar 5th 2013 6:02am by Hexraven
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