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I'm just asking, is allFollow

#1 Feb 14 2013 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you can give me a farm, that is my own personal instanced space, with my own personal crops, and livestock, and furniture in the hut... WHY CAN'T I HAVE A HOUSE??
#2 Feb 14 2013 at 6:57 AM Rating: Excellent
or a guild hall. Where a big ass statue of me can be at.
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#3 Feb 14 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Everquest 2 you can have your own house (although no farm). I think it would be a great addition to WOW especially now that the farm mechanics are allready in-game. Would be a good way to pull some gold out of the game (basic house would be cheap but bigger ones cost a fortune). Could even thrown a few recipes in-game for various tradeskills to make certain decorative items.
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#4 Feb 14 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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teacake wrote:
If you can give me a farm, that is my own personal instanced space, with my own personal crops, and livestock, and furniture in the hut... WHY CAN'T I HAVE A HOUSE??

Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
or a guild hall. Where a big ass statue of me can be at.

fronglo wrote:
Everquest 2 you can have your own house (although no farm). I think it would be a great addition to WOW especially now that the farm mechanics are allready in-game. Would be a good way to pull some gold out of the game (basic house would be cheap but bigger ones cost a fortune). Could even thrown a few recipes in-game for various tradeskills to make certain decorative items.

LotRO. You can have two different size houses, a guild hall, and you can farm (though not outside your house) and then cook with those ingredients. You can also make items and purchase items and get items as drops that you can decorate your house with. Some of which you can interact with, like the Ominous Pool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDAFsbscCfE

Also, you can outfit your character any way you like, keep that outfit on an outfit screen, and have that outfit appear on your character despite having your character wear actual armor. So, you can go into battle wearing a summer dress if you want (I often did this on my male Champion). As long as you keep the various items making up the outfit in your bags or bank, you always wear that until you drop something different into that slot on the outfit screen, or until you switch to your main screen and show your actual armor. There are at least two outfit screens, so you can easily swap looks on the fly.

In case you aren't convinced yet - Balrog!

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#5 Feb 14 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Which is all well and good, but I don't want a house in Middle Earth. I want a house in Darkshire. Smiley: grin

I don't see any reason they can't give us houses now. They've clearly got the infrastructure for it.
#6 Feb 14 2013 at 1:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I could use some place to hang my trophies, pens for the pets, etc. Obviously it would need it own portals to various locations and it's own bank vault as well. Rooms for guests, Real ID people, etc. On the other hand I think I rarely spent time in my spaceship in SWTOR. Of course it wasn't customizable at all and was bug ugly.

Maybe that was it actually... Smiley: rolleyes

Yeah, it'd be nice to have a piece of Azeroth to call my own after all these years. Also, does this mean teacake is playing WoW again?
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#7 Feb 14 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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teacake wrote:
Which is all well and good, but I don't want a house in Middle Earth. I want a house in Darkshire.


But then there would be home owner associations, and dues, and no dwarves allowed signs everywhere!

Any respectable tauren would be in Mulgore and that is just too far away from Ogrimmar to ever have any guest arrive for dinner.

Would the undead have their house decorated completely in coffins?

Would night elves only have poles and mailboxes in their houses?

Have you guys not thought of the consequences of player owned houses?

I was going to add more but wasn't that clever to begin with ...

#8 Feb 14 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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The poles are for gnome tether-ball right? Best thing since battle pets... Smiley: nod
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#9 Feb 14 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some form of Housing with purely cosmetic functions and the ability to invite friends/guildies would be nice. I would probably not use it but every optional goldsink can only better the economy.
Plus it gives people more to do.

Edit. Grammar

Edited, Feb 14th 2013 2:48pm by TherealLogros
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#10 Feb 14 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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teacake wrote:
If you can give me a farm, that is my own personal instanced space, with my own personal crops, and livestock, and furniture in the hut... WHY CAN'T I HAVE A HOUSE??


Because expansion.
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#11 Feb 14 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Also, does this mean teacake is playing WoW again?


I'm in a very Princess Bride sort of place with it at the moment: "Good night Westley, great work today, most likely kill you in the morning." I was playing something else, but I missed my guild, and Prayer of Mending, and then my husband said, "You really need to sub back to WoW because you will get obsessed with this farming stuff." Except he didn't say "stuff." So I resubbed and... I'm kind of obsessed with the farming. On the other hand, the idea of a heroic Scholomance causes me actual physical pain.

And dear everybody: y u no click lightwell??? I thought we had them so well trained the last time I played.
#12 Feb 14 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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BUT IF I CLICK LIGHTWELL HOW WILL I CLICK REND?!?
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#13 Feb 14 2013 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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SINCE CLICKING THE LIGHTWELL IS SO HARD, HOW ABOUT I JUST MAKE IT CLICK YOU?!

Edited, Feb 14th 2013 2:29pm by someproteinguy
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#14 Feb 14 2013 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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Blizzard has said the reason they can't do player housing is...

"If you had your own house, and if it were instanced and customizable... wouldn't that kinda suck if you can't show other players your leetness"? (pp)

Well, eh, sure I can show other players -- I can take pics of it.

Also, why can't we have a system like FFXI where you talk to an NPC to go to a select party member's house?
#15 Feb 15 2013 at 1:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Player housing is unlikely to be worth the effort. Once you have one, what do you do in it? Nothing. Unless you're into RP in a big way, you're going to spend ten minutes walking around and then never go there again. How much time do you spend in your houses in Skyrim vs. how much time you spend killing dragons or questing (actually playing the game)?

It's one of the things that sounds like a good idea but in actuality is more or less worthless. Ignoring this kind of stuff and spending development time on things that add significant content to the game is one of the reasons WoW has been so successful.
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#16 Feb 15 2013 at 1:20 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
How much time do you spend in your houses in Skyrim vs. how much time you spend killing dragons or questing (actually playing the game)?
A significant minority of my time playing Skyrim was spent customizing my character's house. Maybe 8-10%. But then again, I'm probably not the best person to base design decisions on.

All I know is that if they were to introduce decent player housing, I'd probably resubscribe long enough to put together a nice house, then drop my sub again.
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#17 Feb 15 2013 at 2:54 AM Rating: Good
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hi teacake

how you been.

we miss you in the druid forums

<3

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#18 Feb 15 2013 at 5:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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You can't fool me. There are no druid forums. I suppose if I got drunk enough to be admitted I could hang out in the bored druid thread though.

As for housing, I spent a lot of my Skyrim time on and in the houses. And once I had them all I started to lose interest in the game. I was all about the houses. And had I been able to actually do custom stuff with them I'd have played a lot longer.

Doesn't seem like it would take a lot of development time to give WoW players housing if they can give us the farm, which was my original point. Personally, I would stay subbed a lot longer if there was house customizing to do. Especially if you could use it to work toward useful stuff, like growing food as they've already given us, maybe creating/developing/growing other mats, etc. I actually think one of the brilliant things about the farm and the pokemon thing (haven't done anything with that yet, is it fun?) is that it gives people something to do besides the same old same old at max level. A lot of people are burnt out on the standard gear grind but have invested in their characters and loved this world for many years. Give them a fun gold/time sink, especially something that makes their beloved characters feel more powerful or, you know, cooler in some way, and they will hang around longer. Or at least some will. I know not everyone would care about it but appealing to a wide range of interests can only be a good thing.

I seem to recall seeing that one reason they're against it is that they don't want people spending all their time in houses/guild halls because then the cities would feel empty, but I think you could let people have mailboxes, storage, and profession stations and still have plenty of travel to the cities for auctions, trainers, transmog guys, etc.

Plus a new carpentry profession, making furniture... Smiley: nod
#19 Feb 15 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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teacake wrote:
Plus a new carpentry profession, making furniture...


You have been playing too much runescape ...

The first thing that popped into my mind when I read this thread (besides the lame jokes) was the POH system in runescape, almost 100% customizable with all kinds of crazy stuff, dungeons and dining halls, a butler, etc etc etc

Its pretty neat but I lost interest in it in every game I play really fast. I am not a sim player
#20 Feb 15 2013 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
Player housing is unlikely to be worth the effort. Once you have one, what do you do in it? Nothing. Unless you're into RP in a big way, you're going to spend ten minutes walking around and then never go there again.

Pretty much this. In FFXI you at least have reasons to go into your house on a regular basis. Your bank and mailbox are there, the class changer moogle is there, etc. In WoW there would be no good reason to ever use the house unless they made one up.
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#21 Feb 15 2013 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Karlina wrote:
In WoW there would be no good reason to ever use the house unless they made one up.
Some of us just really enjoy interior design when gaming.

Don't judge us. Smiley: bah
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#22 Feb 15 2013 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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I spent a lot of time trying to Feng Shui my houses in Skyrim, but then I took a bookshelf to the knee.
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#23 Feb 15 2013 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Karlina wrote:
In WoW there would be no good reason to ever use the house unless they made one up.


10% bonus to rested experience and valor/conquest points for time spent resting at home. Unless you're a worgen of course...

I have no doubt they give some meaning to it if they really wanted to. The fun part would be hitting that 'nice bonus that's helpful but not required' sweet spot they seem to like to aim for. Minigame where your personal world destroyer fights off advancing zombies? Lots of extra storage space? Grow your own herbs in your garden? Spend money to add portals and other convenience items? Display your awesome legendary on the wall once it's obsolete? Or they could just make housing competitive or something. Not all houses are created equal, better temporary buffs come with better houses? Buy sell trade real estate?

Darn Goblin relator is eating away at my profit margins... Smiley: rolleyes

Or you just do what works in real life, add video games and no one will want to go outside again.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 8:19am by someproteinguy
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#24 Feb 15 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I spent a lot of time trying to Feng Shui my houses in Skyrim, but then I took a bookshelf to the knee.


Win.
#25 Feb 15 2013 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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Karlina wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Player housing is unlikely to be worth the effort. Once you have one, what do you do in it? Nothing. Unless you're into RP in a big way, you're going to spend ten minutes walking around and then never go there again.

Pretty much this. In FFXI you at least have reasons to go into your house on a regular basis. Your bank and mailbox are there, the class changer moogle is there, etc. In WoW there would be no good reason to ever use the house unless they made one up.


Why couldn't they give you a series of quests to add things to your house like...

Smelter/Forge
Anvil
Bank/Guild Bank Access

Etc?

I don't know about anybody else, but I HATE laggy crafting. Even 1 second of latency between batches can make something that should only take 2 minutes, take nearly 5 instead, such as smelting a ton of ghost iron or something.

If houses were phased so that only you were there... well.... no more lag. You could craft in sweet silence and latency-free (or well, as close as one can get to that) environment.

Also if I could get shrine/town portals there or at least just the shrine portal... heh, I'd hearth at my house.
#27 Feb 20 2013 at 3:50 AM Rating: Good
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they let you buy the farm in wow in the next patch they say, it has a house and a mailbox that you can't customize...

but hey it counts as an inn.

Smiley: smile
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#28 Feb 20 2013 at 4:31 AM Rating: Good
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Horsemouth wrote:
they let you buy the farm in wow in the next patch they say, it has a house and a mailbox that you can't customize...

but hey it counts as an inn.

Smiley: smile

Last I heard that feature was removed. You can still do the farming quests it unlocked or w/e but you can't buy the farm anymore.

Edit: You can't BUY the Farm, you are given the farm now.

Patch Notes wrote:
Taking Over the Farm
-The option to take over the farm is available to characters that are exalted with the Tillers and have unlocked all 16 farm plots.

Source


Edited, Feb 20th 2013 4:36am by BeanX
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#29 Feb 20 2013 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
Also if I could get shrine/town portals there or at least just the shrine portal... heh, I'd hearth at my house.
Home is where the hearth is.
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#30 Feb 20 2013 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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BeanX wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
they let you buy the farm in wow in the next patch they say, it has a house and a mailbox that you can't customize...

but hey it counts as an inn.

Smiley: smile

Last I heard that feature was removed. You can still do the farming quests it unlocked or w/e but you can't buy the farm anymore.

Edit: You can't BUY the Farm, you are given the farm now.

Patch Notes wrote:
Taking Over the Farm
-The option to take over the farm is available to characters that are exalted with the Tillers and have unlocked all 16 farm plots.

Source


Edited, Feb 20th 2013 4:36am by BeanX


Woohoo! That is the best news I have heard yet. I was worried it would take, like 100,000 gold or some other insane amount.
#31 Feb 21 2013 at 5:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm confused - what is different when you "take over" the farm, since you're already doing everything anyway? Is it just that Farmer Yoon will go away?
#32 Feb 21 2013 at 6:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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teacake wrote:
I'm confused - what is different when you "take over" the farm, since you're already doing everything anyway? Is it just that Farmer Yoon will go away?


That's what I'm guessing. You just don't have to pay for the farm now. Honestly that clears up having many alts. ATM I have 3 toons at Exalted and 16 plots, if they made me pay I would just skip it. They realized it was just another alt deterrent (Already enough in the game atm), and just made it a small quest or something.

Also all it does is Makes the Farm a rested xp area,and adds rep quests (Different factions order veggies for you to grow for rep), and gets you a mailbox at the farm.


Edited, Feb 21st 2013 6:23am by BeanX
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#33 Feb 21 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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BeanX wrote:
teacake wrote:
I'm confused - what is different when you "take over" the farm, since you're already doing everything anyway? Is it just that Farmer Yoon will go away?


That's what I'm guessing. You just don't have to pay for the farm now. Honestly that clears up having many alts. ATM I have 3 toons at Exalted and 16 plots, if they made me pay I would just skip it. They realized it was just another alt deterrent (Already enough in the game atm), and just made it a small quest or something.

Also all it does is Makes the Farm a rested xp area,and adds rep quests (Different factions order veggies for you to grow for rep), and gets you a mailbox at the farm.


Edited, Feb 21st 2013 6:23am by BeanX

Isn't there already a mailbox between the farm and the road? I haven't logged into WoW in over a week, maybe my mind is playing tricks on me again.

If so, rested xp is no bargain, I've not run out of it while leveling four characters to 90 and at 90 who cares? So, what's left? Rep quests? Is there really a need to own the farm to get those?

And how will they explain us getting the farm Yoon's grandfather left for him? The farm Yoon came all the way from wherever he came from to take over and rebuild?

I hope there's more to it.

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#34 Feb 22 2013 at 5:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know, Yoon's kind of mopey. It might be better for him to seek fulfillment elsewhere. It's not like he's into farming. All he does is stand around while I do all the work.

Maybe they're having it become "yours" for some future plans. Perhaps more customizable in the future or something.
#35 Feb 22 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Player housing would be awesome in a world where having a safe space meant something.

Say if Inns were expensive to use, relatively rare, with limited space, and the keepers would toss you out if you hadn't paid for a room or bought drinks every so often. Of course, the world would need to be dangerous as well, with NPC thieves/thugs even in the cities. Even more than that, though, it would realistically require the ability for PLAYERS to take meaningful PVP action against each other, ranging from placing a bounty on their head (which could only be safely collected in lawless or contested areas of the world) to picking some of their gold from their pockets, to actually mugging them and stealing gear, or even assassinating them.

Then you would definitely appreciate player housing as a protective area.

And they could incentive decorating it by giving homes a security rating as well. The nicer your house is, and the more frequently you invite in local NPCs or players, the higher your houses security rating becomes, making it harder to break into (which shouldn't be easy unless you're seriously specializing in the thievery skills). It'll be harder for potential thieves to get close to the house without being detected, and the amount of time they can stay in the home would be lowered by a high rating. High enough and you're essentially safe, as long as you have decent locks on your chests and wherever you keep the expensive goods.

Plus, you'd have a popularity ranking with the local guards. The more they like you, the more likely they are to take your side in an altercation (so, say, if an Assassin player really focused on keeping the local guards happy through bribes and other activities, the guards may actually assume that they're innocent in the fight if the assassination attempt is botched.

Etc.

It definitely wouldn't be an MMO for really casual players. It's essentially the fantasy world version of EVE Online. I absolutely love the concept, but I seriously doubt we'll be seeing something like it any time soon. Of course, they could go the EVE route and have high security, low security, and lawless areas. Make aggressive activity far more difficult, and more penalizing, than in lower security areas and it still might be fun for more casual people. Especially if you weren't forced into low security to explore all the endgame story content.

And hey, I haven't rambled like this in months. Feels good.
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#36 Feb 23 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
or a guild hall. Where a big ass statue of me can be at.


I miss having Guild Halls. GW1 had them, and it was a great place to empty bags, congregate, etc, without having to deal with the lag of major cities. It also allowed for some fun games (they had Guild vs Guild in GW1 and your Guild Hall would be your home map should you participate. You could scrimmage your own guild members.

I don't really see the use of a personal houses in a game built around community. The farms are on the hairy edge of being a bit too much, in my opinion.

But, I would really love a guild hall. It made building guild community all the easier when there was a central place for guild members of all levels to run into each other.

Also, remember, they made us get rid of our key rings to add expensive void storage. Imagine what they'd make us get rid of for our own house :-\

Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 4:26pm by ekaterinodar
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#37 Feb 23 2013 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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ekaterinodar wrote:

I don't really see the use of a personal houses in a game built around community. The farms are on the hairy edge of being a bit too much, in my opinion.


Yea, I did an experiment today and was quite disappointed to find that even when you have someone grouped with you they can't enter your farm. Smiley: frown

ekaterinodar wrote:

But, I would really love a guild hall. It made building guild community all the easier when there was a central place for guild members of all levels to run into each other.


Yea, a place for guildies to hang out would be pretty cool.

ekaterinodar wrote:

Also, remember, they made us get rid of our key rings to add expensive void storage. Imagine what they'd make us get rid of for our own house :-\


Yea, I may have missed something but I don't recall these two ever being connected.


Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 4:47pm by ShadorVIII
#38 Feb 23 2013 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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ekaterinodar wrote:
Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
or a guild hall. Where a big ass statue of me can be at.


I miss having Guild Halls. GW1 had them, and it was a great place to empty bags, congregate, etc, without having to deal with the lag of major cities. It also allowed for some fun games (they had Guild vs Guild in GW1 and your Guild Hall would be your home map should you participate. You could scrimmage your own guild members.

I don't really see the use of a personal houses in a game built around community. The farms are on the hairy edge of being a bit too much, in my opinion.

But, I would really love a guild hall. It made building guild community all the easier when there was a central place for guild members of all levels to run into each other.

Also, remember, they made us get rid of our key rings to add expensive void storage. Imagine what they'd make us get rid of for our own house :-\

Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 4:26pm by ekaterinodar


In a WoW-like environment, a house is primarily an RP tool. Which also means that houses you can't invite people to are next to useless. But for RP players, being able to build/buy and furnish a house can be a lot of fun. With the diversity of WoW cities, it could actually end up even more interesting.
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#39 Feb 23 2013 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Didn't Ghostcrawler recently say that they may consider housing in the future and that this farm was their way of testing out the concept and popularity before pursuing that more intensive project?
#40 Feb 25 2013 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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WoW has farms now? Wow, glad I got out when the getting was good.
#41 Feb 26 2013 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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You have to think that the farm was testing the waters to see how it would go. It also provided a nice simple feature that is not raiding related, which seems to be a focus now (pet battles, dailies, brawlers guild).

I think the biggest strike against player housing ever being implemented is that they are doing everything in their power to get players out into the world. Go to Halfhill & Farm, go run dailies, go farm rares or galleon, etc. Cata you were either raiding or sitting in a capital city. They don't want people sitting in player housing, by themselves.SO



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#43 Feb 26 2013 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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MentalFrog wrote:
WoW has farms now? Wow, glad I got out when the getting was good.


When I heard that WoW was going to have Farmville, I had a negative opinion of it. Turns out to be one of the more enjoyable parts of the expansion.
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#44 Feb 26 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
MentalFrog wrote:
WoW has farms now? Wow, glad I got out when the getting was good.


When I heard that WoW was going to have Farmville, I had a negative opinion of it. Turns out to be one of the more enjoyable parts of the expansion.


I hated it being compared to Farmville. Other than the farming itself there was very little similar to the actual Farmville game. To me it's like going to an actual farmer somewhere and saying, "you play Farmville for a living!" Farming was first damn it! lol

Anyhow, I do enjoy the farming. It gets tedious when trying to do it on a lot of characters everyday but that's just a choice. It's not game breaking if you miss a day or only do it on 1-2 characters.

I'm looking forward to the changes in 5.2 though, should make some of it even easier and I can even immediately log out from my farm as it can be made into an Inn.
#45 Feb 27 2013 at 3:08 AM Rating: Good
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all this talk of take over the farm, and farms...

i tried to google a clip but damn the whole thing is in public domain.



have fun at work tomorrow
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#46 Feb 27 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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Oh wow, your clip is an entire movie. lol - Did not have much interest in watching it. I'd prefer Charlotte's Web.
#47 Feb 27 2013 at 7:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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sas148 wrote:
Oh wow, your clip is an entire movie. lol - Did not have much interest in watching it. I'd prefer Charlotte's Web.


Meh, Watership Down ftw.

Though, Charlotte's Web wasn't bad per se, I tend to like WD more.
#48 Feb 28 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Doesn't Rift have houses now where people can tour other people's homes? That would be cool. I agree it's kind of pointless to go through the trouble of customizing a house and then sitting in it by yourself (although I loved it in Skyrim and I couldn't even customize it there). But if you could invite people in, throw parties, serve feasts, give gifts? How fun would that be?

Anyway if GC really said the farm is an experiment toward housing I suspect it will be along sooner or later unless WOW IZ GOING TO DIE OMG!!! and the game isn't around long enough for them to do it. Because the farming seems really popular.

As for getting out in the world, pet battles seemed to have accomplished a lot in that regard. I don't know where anybody gets time to raid, because as far as I can tell they're all out there camping out the pets I'm trying to catch.
#49 Feb 28 2013 at 7:32 PM Rating: Good
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There's been a really obvious trend in RPGs (particularly with MMOs) where the combat is becoming increasingly central to the game experience. And I think it's incredibly important for the health of the gaming industry and the genre that it stops. I know quite a few gamers who would happily play games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect without any combat at all, because they aren't in it for the fighting, they're in it for the story, the characters, the world, etc.

And look at the success of the Walking Dead games. They don't really include "combat" in any traditional sense, but they're wildly popular.

The thing is, combat is so easy. It takes so much less creativity to design and implement a combat system than other systems. People expect a combat system, but they don't necessarily expect anything else, so it feels like you get to skip out on all the work.

Thing is, that's how you end up with a huge list of MMOs that all seem like essentially the same game, with various degrees of polish, set in different worlds. And the worst part is that this wouldn't even be so bad if the developers would stop spending most of their time focusing solely on combat. They need to push out dungeons and warzones and raids (etc.) as fast as they can, because it's the only thing they're realistically selling. They need to keep their players invested in THEIR combat system, because there are so many others people could jump ship to. And, let's face it, combat is rarely what MMOs do well.

In my opinion, we NEED designers to return to looking at the big picture. Right now, in WoW, just about every system (besides pet battles and the farm) is about improving your combat capability. You craft to get the combat-related buffs. You farm rep because you need combat-related buffs. Etc.

Why not create an MMO where crafting is deep, intricate, and interesting. Why not allow for a large diversity of crafts, from furniture-making to horse-breeding to blacksmithing? Why not allow for a lot of cross-craft material requirements? Why not implement player housing and allow for people to visit? Why not implement a politics system that allows for players to work up the social ladder of a city, to gain more influence, or even run for mayoralty? Why not have zones that are run by NPCs, but also have zones where players vie for control (as in, the leader actually controls the laws of the region, can hire guard NPCs to patrol and enforce their laws).

And combine this with an established list of quests like you see in WoW, TOR, etc. and add an additional system like Skyrim's radiant quests to keep things interesting.

I'm convinced there's a huge market for this sort of MMO, for the same reason social games do incredibly well. EVE is essentially this, with a space setting and spreadsheet-like system. As a capusleer in EVE, you can literally do just about anything. Every single item in the game can be crafted, from the smallest spaceships to space stations. And it's fairly easy to dabble in everything. But there's a HUGE diversity of playstyles. Some players run (or take part in) shipping businesses. Many primarily focus in business or industry. There are tons of miners, plenty of militia members, pirates, explorers, etc.

And the reason it works is because they let the players generate the content, which frees them up to work on many, many other projects.

Frankly, I love the idea of working my way up the social ladder of Stormwind to get the ear of some high-ranking politician, all the while operating a crime syndicate from behind the scenes, but also running a perfectly respectable front company as a gryphon-breeder that sells luxury mounts at very fair prices. I'd also, of course, be a big patron of the arts and sponsor archaelogical digs throughout Azeroth to try and uncover ancient sculptures. And if a few of the finer treasures end up on the black market...

The best part is that it means there would be actual interaction between the players who wanted to go out into the field and those who would want to stay behind. You could be a warrior, hire yourself out as a mercenary or freelance miner, and also try and build a name in an underground brawling ring.

Etc.

Note: Part of why EVE's system works is because items and ships are destroyed nonstop there, which filters currency and goods out of the economy at a quick rate. And because all resources need to be gathered to generate them (and even the most common ores are needed in huge amounts), it works well. This would need to hold true for fantasy MMO as well. If nothing could ever be destroyed, it would only be so long until no one had any reason to care anymore. Of course, it also means that your progress wasn't measured in ilvl, which would be awesome, imo.

/longpost
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#50 Feb 28 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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See, thing is, if people wanted a non-combat MMORPG, they'd play something like Farmville. No offense intended, its just...

If you want to run a farm, you'd play an MMORPG designed for that.

Games like WoW are mostly for the medieval combat, which is why people come to WoW in the first place. They want to swing swords, throw magic, etc. The side-things like this Sunsong Ranch? That's just a little something to do on the side; it was never meant to be the focus of the game.

Now, it is true, there's not a lot of MMO games out there that are non-combat... but then you have to think, there's surely a reason for that. And there is -- your average gamer wants to take out their frustrations on pixels, and the few who don't and/or the few who are looking for something non-combat are greatly outnumbered.

Running an MMO takes a lot of money; a developer is going to go where the money is, and combat-heavy games are just that.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, however. I've played games like Harvest Moon (though I think they got just a little carried away with how small of a window you have to actually get anything done and get any decent ending whatsoever and/or the "MUST DO X on Y DAY OR YOU MISS AN ENTIRE ENDING FOREVER!!!" crap they always pull).

I have Cities XL installed on my Steam, I tinker with it now-and-then. Heck, I even gave Dear Esther a whirl. It was fun for the first time, and.....well..... then what? You already know the story even if they change it up a little each time you do it. To the Moon? Bought that too. Awesome, awesome story. But little-to-no replay value.

Those games are all good and such (even with the lack of replay value)....

But usually when I load up a game, I want to be adventurous, I want to explore, I want to do stuff.
#51 Feb 28 2013 at 8:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Damn long post, I want to respond to it all but the time it would take to break it down just to much time.

Combat may be easy, but its hard to get right. Its also what the players see the most, and what they want. Sure there are niche games out there that cater to other playstyles but they are niche. Honestly Wow has a good story and most of the combat is used to forward said story, most raids arent just plopped down by devs as here run this in the mean time. There are crafted into the story and actually play a significance in the story.

As for a few of your other things.
Breeding systems: FF11 had chocobo breeding, for about 6 months it was awesome and now almost no one cares.

Politic system: It just wouldnt work, why put in a system that caters to the few, everyone pays the same amount shouldn't everyone be entitled to the same experience? and internet popularity polls just mean he who has the most friends or followers or most amount of money to bribe can be the king/mayor w/e

Intricate crafting: Again Ill go back to FF11, you could make furniture in that game, some people used it to make their Moghouse nice looking, most just put in the items they: got for free, needed to max out storage space, gave them a buff to crafting, or needed an item to get a quest.

Also WoW had/has cross crafting. you need a BS to make the rod enchanters use and a few others. But all it doid was act as a pay wall for new crafters, becuase to get passed a certain point and level a craft you needed said item, and If you couldnt find someone to make it for you cheap you needed to pay stupid high prices on the AH to even get farther in crafting.

Also for a while you couldnt invite people into your MH on FF11, after they introduced it no one cared unless they wanted to cyber, I think I used the option to invite someone one time to try out the system but never cared to again.

Overall giving you a way to increase combat just feels natural as most MMOs are focused around it, and if your looking for other crafting systems there's other games out there to fit the niche. Its a tangible reward you can actually see advancing your character.

Othergames have tried to get rid of the gear grind but either they find niche markets (GW2) or become so stale you have players leaving (FF11 of a few years ago)

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