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Thoughts on LFRFollow

#1 Jan 09 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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I know I'm probably really late to the party on this, but...so what?

Background first. I really only ran LFR a couple time during DS. I just didn't need stuff and I preferred to run with guildies and avoid all the asshattery I read about at the time. Fast forward to MoP. The first couple months, I wasn't really able to put much time into WoW. My work schedule was hectic and I was out of town quite a bit. Around early December, that cleared up a little and I was able to start focusing on getting a toon raid ready. I also decided to switch raiding mains from Druid tank to holy Pally. I really didn't/don't care much for the active mitigation style of Guardian tanking and being late to the show, I didn't really want the pressure of learning dungeons and heroics as a tank that was behind the curve. So, I switched to my pally, which has always been my primary alt (dating back to BC when I rolled my first holy pally alt). Got geared up relatively quickly through dungeons, rep stuff, and the help of a couple guildies. Then, I was able to hit LFR a couple times in the last few weeks, going for a few upgrades so I'll be better geared/prepared for raiding with my guild.

Okay, so here goes my thoughts on LFR:

1. LFR raids are a joke. The mechanics are so watered down, you basically have to be an idiot to fail. Or, perhaps even catatonic. Even though I've seen all the bosses in LFR, I don't think I'll be very prepared for real raiding because LFR just seems so simple that it isn't really teaching me anything. It's not a challenge. It's almost like steamrolling older content, it just takes longer to kill things because they have so much hp.

2. I don't really feel like I'm doing anything to contribute. Okay, I know I am, I can look at the meters and see that I'm contributing. I'm not topping healing meters, or anything, but I wouldn't really expect to at this point, since I'm only recently up over 470 iLvl. And, I don't really care if I top meters anyway. I just don't feel like what I'm doing matters. It seems like the raid will succeed regardless of what I do or don't do. Going back to point number 1, it just doesn't seem like a challenge.

Maybe part of this is because LFR is 25-man. I don't know. It's been a while since I really ran 25s. My guild has mostly been 10-man since Wrath. But, I just feel like 25-man LFR negates any individual contribution.

I know the LFR is really there as a bridge to the normal mode raids, but it just seems like loot pinata, without much challenge. Hell, even back in the day of Loot Reaver, you could **** it up and fail. I'm not trying to make this a rose-colored glasses, get off my lawn type thing here...LFR just seems too watered down. At least for me, maybe it's what most people want.

Again, I know I'm late to the party and this has probably all been said before. But, I thought I'd air my thoughts anyway. What the hell, the board's been pretty slow lately. :-)
#2 Jan 09 2013 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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1. LFR raids are a joke. The mechanics are so watered down, you basically have to be an idiot to fail. Or, perhaps even catatonic. Even though I've seen all the bosses in LFR, I don't think I'll be very prepared for real raiding because LFR just seems so simple that it isn't really teaching me anything. It's not a challenge. It's almost like steamrolling older content, it just takes longer to kill things because they have so much hp.


It's sorta ment to be a joke. Its there for those who cant raid (mostly idiots) so they can see the content. It fixes the "only 5% of the playerbase saw this raid" problem Bliz had back in BC, and your coming in VERY late even for LFR standards so everyone already knows what they can and cant stand in, and what mechanics are super weak. LFR Garolon and Feng the Dragon used to have raid wiping mechanics even in LFR (Garolon crush/pheremons (nerfed now), Fengs 3rd phase (Stand in melee with the arcane debuff and could wipe the raid or close to) , and the Sun/Night Dragon I've still seen people wipe on just due to ignoring mechanics.

Quote:
2. I don't really feel like I'm doing anything to contribute. Okay, I know I am, I can look at the meters and see that I'm contributing. I'm not topping healing meters, or anything, but I wouldn't really expect to at this point, since I'm only recently up over 470 iLvl. And, I don't really care if I top meters anyway. I just don't feel like what I'm doing matters. It seems like the raid will succeed regardless of what I do or don't do. Going back to point number 1, it just doesn't seem like a challenge.


25 man raiding always feels this way, in 10 man you can feel awesome for doing 25% of the overall dmg (if you good) but thats near impossible for 25man, I mean theres a max of 100% as dps your splitting it 5-6 ways in 10 man, 18 ways in 25 as a healer 2-3 ways in 10 man. 10 man is more about individual responsibility with group play. 25 is more about cordination and group play I guess, as it hurts less to lose 1 dps on 25 man then 1 dps in 10. meh. Again LFR isnt there for a challenge really, its there as a stepping stone into real raiding content, they want to give you a taste so you want more and start real raiding therefore stay subbed longer. Kinda like a drug pusher, but since your already addicted to real raiding you feel let down by the potency of the watered down raiding experience.

Back when everyone was in greens and blues it was a tad more challenging and you couldnt just ignore everything like they do now. Also for those that are raiders it is helpful because we pay attention to boss abilities. So when we go into real raids we have a general idea of how each boss acts. Most bosses are LFR(Stripped down fights with low dmg), Real raids (Boss at normal strength +1 additional mechanic, in most cases), Heroic Raiding (Boss at high strength with +1 more additional mechanic). So when going into a raid you can just say, Ok whats the differences from LFR, and usually* its shorter to explain than training a new raider from cold start.

But yeah you know what real raiding is, as you used to raid. So now you go into LFR and expect the same kinda challenge, but its really not, its there to loot pinata to see the story and area. So everyone gets a chance to know the story etc, also its going to be a catch up mechanism for later patches.

But I completely understand where your coming from now, in most fights I wish I could die just because its so mind numbingly boring to just stand there and dps and really not pay attention to anything (the water elemental in TES is really bad about this).
Its kind of like expecting a Steven King Novel and getting a RL Stine book, it seems good at first, but is over way to quick with nothing of substance and isnt very memorable or scary (except that one about the **** ventriloquist dummies but those are their own form of creepy even without bad books about them)



Edited, Jan 11th 2013 2:32pm by BeanX
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#3 Jan 09 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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BeanX wrote:

But I completely understand where your coming from now, in most fights I wish I could die just because its so mind numbingly boring to just stand there and dps and really not pay attention to anything (the water elemental in TES is really bad about this).
Its kind of like expecting a Steven King Novel and getting a RL Stine book, it seems good at first, but is over way to quick with nothing of substance and isnt very memorable or scary (except that one about the **** ventriloquist dummies but those are their own form of creepy even without bad books about them)

Edited, Jan 9th 2013 1:05pm by BeanX


Forget the dummies, hose books had a woman who was tied up, had bread dough stuffed in her nose and mouth and then shoved into a hot oven.
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#4 Jan 09 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I still have yet to do LFR, due to an extreme fear of failing and wiping the group (Guardian Druid here Smiley: lol). But I actually figure that DMB will solve most of the "What should I do or avoid?" issues anyway.

More like I don't find raiding all that fun (or at least the drama with it). I would like some upgrades though, so I probably should wade in sometime Smiley: glare
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#5 Jan 09 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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selebrin wrote:
BeanX wrote:

But I completely understand where your coming from now, in most fights I wish I could die just because its so mind numbingly boring to just stand there and dps and really not pay attention to anything (the water elemental in TES is really bad about this).
Its kind of like expecting a Steven King Novel and getting a RL Stine book, it seems good at first, but is over way to quick with nothing of substance and isnt very memorable or scary (except that one about the **** ventriloquist dummies but those are their own form of creepy even without bad books about them)

Edited, Jan 9th 2013 1:05pm by BeanX


Forget the dummies, hose books had a woman who was tied up, had bread dough stuffed in her nose and mouth and then shoved into a hot oven.

Oh man, that Night of the Living Dummy book traumatized me as a kid too Smiley: laugh
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#6 Jan 09 2013 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Never was a huge fan of the random-matching in either LFD or LFR. Too many people I'd just rather not play with. While I had plenty of good groups the 5-10% or so that were bad were enough to make me ditch the random finders all together. Even in SWTOR I avoided their LFD but managed to do my fair share of their heroic group quests and found them enjoyable.

As for LFR itself, I preferred 10-man raiding anyway and never liked the feeling of getting lost in a 25-man sea of confusion (Well that's what it felt like to me anyway... Smiley: lol). That dislike was only magnified by the amount of incoherent tomfoolery present in the random finder.

Oddly enough random battlegrouds never bothered me much, and things got even better when they added the pre-made battleground thingy (curse the bots though... Smiley: mad). Maybe I played enough unorganized sports on the playground as a kid or something, but it felt kinda like that, and it wasn't a bad thing.
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#7 Jan 09 2013 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
I still have yet to do LFR, due to an extreme fear of failing and wiping the group (Guardian Druid here Smiley: lol). But I actually figure that DMB will solve most of the "What should I do or avoid?" issues anyway.

I have run LFR twice with a guildie who is a Guardian. She queues with us as feral, though. I assume because she doesn't want to deal with the asshattery. I know she's good enough to tank it, she's an awesome bear.

So, you could go in and see it as a feral, grab some gear, and go later as a tank. I'm not too sure anymore about the overlap of feral and guardian gear, but I'm guessing it might work okay based on past experience. Unless the stats have separated a lot in MoP. Even still, it would get you a look at the raids.
Quote:
More like I don't find raiding all that fun (or at least the drama with it). I would like some upgrades though, so I probably should wade in sometime Smiley: glare

I do enjoy the challange of raids, but I don't dig the drama either, which is one reason I've mostly skipped LFR until recently. Fortunately, I haven't seen much drama in LFR. And, the minor BS I've seen was easily ignored. I think most of the drama in DS LFR came from loot issues. The new personal loot rolls, I believe, have mostly eliminated that. Of course, there's always the chance of the meter/epeen idiots, but I find them easy enough to ignore.
#8 Jan 09 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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At this point there is not much drama left in LFR because the chance of failing is so low. When Garalon still could (and would) wipe the raid a few times, oh boy. You could almost taste the nerdrage exploding in front of at least 15 monitors.
The only times I've seen insults in the last few IDs was when some ***** decided to roll Need on a lockbox or some random green item. While it really is a non-issue from a monetary pov it nevertheless grinds some peoples gear.
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#9 Jan 09 2013 at 4:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Unless you really want tank-spec gear, DPS queues are much, much shorter. It's mostly a result of going from 1:3:1 (tank:DPS:healer) to 1:8.5:3. DPS are getting in faster, and now you need three healers for every tank that signs up.
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#10 Jan 09 2013 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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There is absolutely nothing funnier than the LFR chat. Especially when something goes bad and you need someone to blame. The 'burns' people throw at each other are absolutely ridiculous. I run LFR with a friend or 2 and we just crack up over vent. Sometimes, we do try to fan the flames of the chat so as to just get something more to laugh at.

I wish i could just join the chat without actually doing the raid.
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#11 Jan 10 2013 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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What happens in LFR varies a /lot/ by battlegroup, time of day, and time of week.

Last week, I ported in to a group in progress (i.e. had already wiped many times) at Will of the Emperor. We then proceeded to wipe nine more times, swapping people in and out amidst massive recriminations, until we finally got some DPS other than myself who could (a) do more than 30k - not a typo - dps and (b) not fixate on the bosses. I hung around as long as I did because it was like watching a trainwreck and because it was the only boss I needed and I knew that regression to the mean would get us over the hump as the baddies left one by one.

Same week, a guildie was grouped with a premade of heroic-geared raiders (presumably dragging an alt through for gear) who could have basically 6-manned the place.

I suspect the chances are better on servers/groups where there is a strong raiding culture. Your mileage will definitely vary.
#12 Jan 10 2013 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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ElMuneco wrote:
What happens in LFR varies a /lot/ by battlegroup, time of day, and time of week.

Last week, I ported in to a group in progress (i.e. had already wiped many times) at Will of the Emperor. We then proceeded to wipe nine more times, swapping people in and out amidst massive recriminations, until we finally got some DPS other than myself who could (a) do more than 30k - not a typo - dps and (b) not fixate on the bosses. I hung around as long as I did because it was like watching a trainwreck and because it was the only boss I needed and I knew that regression to the mean would get us over the hump as the baddies left one by one.


You don't even know how much I would've loved to be in that group, just for the raid chat.
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#13 Jan 10 2013 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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I am appreciative of the fact that LFR allowed them to make Normal mode not suck.

That being said, everytime I do LFR on my alt, I don't really enjoy it at all. Thankfully I don't need it on my main anymore.
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#14 Jan 10 2013 at 10:01 PM Rating: Good
I only do LFR to get coins for the legendary quest (still not done. Like 8/4 -.-). I only do the 1st part of MSV and the very last one (endless springs?). Would love to get some tier tokens, but I have 0 luck. The LFR's version for Monk t14 looks so much better then normal/heroic.
LFR has netted me some decent gear tho. Have a nice looking Sha-touched staff... and some other LFR gear that has helped me out in Normal mode.
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#15 Jan 11 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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It's sorta ment to be a joke. Its there for those who cant raid (idiots) so they can see the content.


That's a bit harsh.

I think the design intent was more that "There are many players who can't get into a raiding guild for whatever reason, they want to see the content too" rather than "people are too stupid to do Normal Raids".

There's lots of reasons why peeps might not be in a raiding guild...

1). They'd rather be in a social/RP/PvP guild.
2). They can't conform to the schedules most raid guilds want (which is my personal reason, an RL job makes it nearly impossible to work in a raiding guild).
3). Lack of skill (yes, there ARE people who can't hack Normal raids).
4). A lack of desire. Some people don't want nail-biting challenge in their raids; they'd rather just show up and feel like gods as they curbstomp stuff. Feeling godly powerful does touch the pleasure center in some peoples' brains. That's why many players loved the Gnomebliteration quest in Uldum and other quests like it (like the Kota stomp quest in Kun-lai). Also, the Golden Lotus finale; steamrolling 100 mogu in a couple minutes with godly buffs from the Celestials was some of the most fun I ever had. Makes me feel godly. Also, the reason why I play a Blood DK most of the time.

And there's also another important thing about LFR; It is a PUG group that is randomly put together by a queue system. The raid needs to be easy because these are players who are not coordinated, don't know each other, and are very likely not in any kind of voice chat with each other.

Either way, LFR solves all of the above quite smoothly. I did my first LFR this past Tuesday. Yes it was easy, but I was glad it was easy. I'm the type of person who just wants to sit down and have some fun. I am not having fun when I'm running back to the instance portal as a ghost because someone else screwed up, which is why I refused to touch Cata endgame until the 4.3 Heroics were out and the majority of the people were steamrolling it.

Edited, Jan 11th 2013 11:07am by Lyrailis
#16 Jan 11 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
Quote:
It's sorta ment to be a joke. Its there for those who cant raid (idiots) so they can see the content.


That's a bit harsh.
...
Yes it was easy, but I was glad it was easy. I'm the type of person who just wants to sit down and have some fun.[/i]


Blizzard designed LFR with you in mind. That's fine. It is what it is. It's easy. Don't get offended when someone points out that it's easy.

My original comments about LFR come from the perspective of having raided since TBC. I'm not hardcore, nor am I elitist. In fact, I'm probably barely competent when it boils down to it. But, I like the challenge of working together with people to overcome a hurdle and accomplish a goal. LFR, to me, removes the challenge and lowers the hurdle so much, that anyone can do it. Getting people see the content (part of Blizz's goal, obviously) is great, but for me, it loses its fun when it's not challenging. Like god-mode in any game...after the initial woohoo of it...playing without a challenge just isn't fun to me.

Please don't take offence at what I'm saying either. I'm just stating my perspective. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I'm just stating my opinion.
#17 Jan 11 2013 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sorry Lyrailis, Didn't mean to offend, and yes I understand there are some cases like you pointed out but my comment was more a venting of anger then a slam on anyone. I have 4 90s so I have spent an exceptional amount of time in LFR, and sometimes you just wonder. Pretty much I have became jaded.

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#18 Jan 11 2013 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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@azwing, BeanX:

I didn't take offense nor was I offended, I was just noting that it sounded a bit harsh.

I think Blizzard's style of thinking is "If LFR is boring to you/too easy for you, then find 9-24 players and do Normal instead".

I don't know if that is the "right" philosophy to have, but as even you two admit, LFR does fill a pretty good hole that has existed in the game for years -- casual people who want to see the story/bosses/areas who couldn't because they could not get into a raiding guild for whatever reason.

Should they have two LFRs, one easy like current, and one harder more like DS at the beginning? Sure. Is it feasible? I dunno, that's up to Blizz to decide.
#19 Jan 11 2013 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
@azwing, BeanX:
Should they have two LFRs, one easy like current, and one harder more like DS at the beginning? Sure. Is it feasible? I dunno, that's up to Blizz to decide.


They just need to open up X-server raiding period, and have a place where you can pug people not randomly but see a pool of people Looking to Raid with a brief description(made by the game NOT by the player) Showing Avg iLvl,Spec, and past boss kills, (also a drop down to show how much time you have available to play)maybe with a drop down to select player raid experience (or set by the system based on boss kills) and give a small buff to pulling in a newer raider to the whole raid (nothing big), but no buff for pulling more experienced raiders from the LFR pool as a trade off. Allow rating pugged players with a small 5 question or so survey that the raid leader fills at the end something like:

Do you feel the player played competently? Yes/No comment
Did the raider bring food/Flasks for themselves? Yes/No Comment
Did you feel there was adequate communications from the player?

Dont allow "negative" feed back but neutral feedback, but DONT let the players see the outcome of these surveys but rather use the info from the survey to place player names higher or lower on the list, and have the List reset about every 4 weeks. But on the flip side have the player have a small survey about the raid team (maybe)

As for doing stuff like trolling/trying to cheat the system etc. Yes its possible maybe a warning system: If you kick to many 'bad players" you lock your ability to pick a player and just get a random player from a selected class you choose(guild wide/account wide). But if on the other hand you get kicked yourself to much you get locked out of the pug finder for a week (or reset),based on Boss Kills new players would have, players with fewer boss kills would have a more lenient lock out (one or 2 days) versus players that have high gear + experience. Also have any warnings based on account not toon, and have the "experienced" raider be account wide also, so you cant have someone using an alt to try and game the system.

Also have the lockout share the same CD as normal raids so players aren't Pugging + raiding in the same week.

Benefits:
Players on off times/low pop servers ability to find raids
New players eased into real raiding with the help of experienced teams
New friends
Possible new guildies
More transfers for players finding new guilds (mo Bliz money)

Cons:
Possible trolling and cheating the system

IDK something I thought up on the spot. I do see possible loopholes but nothing is perfect when you first make the idea up. Maybe I should see if I can get some people to take a look and give ideas and submit this to Bliz.





Edited, Jan 11th 2013 8:42pm by BeanX
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#20 Jan 11 2013 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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The problem with that, is it'd work pretty much the same as LookingForGroup and/or Trade did before LFR DS:

"LFG [insert raid here], must have [insert item-level here that outgears the content] and achieves [for the content they are LFGing for]".

Instead of those, you'd have people who don't have the achieves who need the gear sitting in this LFR idea of yours for hours while the people who have the achieves and already outgear the content would get chosen.

That's why only a blind Queue system will work. The playerbase has proven this as a hard fact in the past. Blizzard knows players will NOT be nice to each other in any shape, form, way, or manner unless they are forced to.

LFR DS had lots of loot issues... so they gave us this new "Elder Charm of 28g" system, for example.
#21 Jan 11 2013 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
The problem with that, is it'd work pretty much the same as LookingForGroup and/or Trade did before LFR DS:

"LFG [insert raid here], must have [insert item-level here that outgears the content] and achieves [for the content they are LFGing for]".

Instead of those, you'd have people who don't have the achieves who need the gear sitting in this LFR idea of yours for hours while the people who have the achieves and already outgear the content would get chosen.

That's why only a blind Queue system will work. The playerbase has proven this as a hard fact in the past. Blizzard knows players will NOT be nice to each other in any shape, form, way, or manner unless they are forced to.

LFR DS had lots of loot issues... so they gave us this new "Elder Charm of 28g" system, for example.


Yeah thats the reason you give a buff to the raid for choosing people without the achieves or the higher Ilvl. Its a buff to possibly cover the lower gear/inexperience of the "new" raider. So you have to ask yourself, even on progression, "Do I risk grabbing a new player but having my experienced raiders get better stats, or do I grab an experienced player but get no buff" I mean as a person that was a raid leader, even something as small as at 5% healing buff or 5% dps buff can make a HUGE Difference. Its a risk reward system.

The Blind que is great for a completely random group, but lets say you have 7/10 guildies on and want to run something, having a pool of players to choose from would be a great idea. Now you stand around in trade for an hour or 2 trying to pug those, and on smaller servers, or playing on off times possibly not being able to raid.

This system wasnt really designed for a Complete PUG group but more as a fill in for casual/low man guilds and Low pop servers to have a chance to do "regular' strength raids. I guess It could be used in that sense but doing so is taking to many chances as each person would be a **** shoot on how they play or how well they play.

As for being nice to each other, Its Blizzards game, if people abuse it start taking away features. Give consequences for being a and **** That's why I said the 'punishment' should be, locking out the account, or the guild and make sure the guild KNOWS that you are the one hindering them. Peer pressure is a **** when you have something good going most people wont intentionally do something to undermine it.

Idk Like I said it was an Idea
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#22 Jan 11 2013 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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As for being nice to each other, Its Blizzards game, if people abuse it start taking away features. Give consequences for being a and **** That's why I said the 'punishment' should be, locking out the account, or the guild and make sure the guild KNOWS that you are the one hindering them. Peer pressure is a **** when you have something good going most people wont intentionally do something to undermine it.


As awesome as that would be...

1). Blizzard never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER publically shames anyone, and they expressly forbid this being done by players even if there is insurmountable proof of their misdeeds.

2). It can take a week or more for Blizzard to ever take action, with their current workload. Add MORE workload to their plates and you could easily see the responses climb to 2+ weeks before reported offenses are actioned.

Now, onto the rest of your post:

I could understand adding some sort of "Raid Fill" system for Normal Raids, but whatever we do, please do not suggest they remove LFR in its current form. People use it, people love it and it works. Now, I agree, it is sad that there are many players who want something harder than LFR, but yet can't do Normal Raids because of various issues and an idea like yours could be a good start towards it.
#23 Jan 12 2013 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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The nice thing about LFR is that it allows people to get an idea of what to expect in a normal raid. My guild uses LFR to familiarize themselves with encounters a bit, which makes it easier to learn the 'normal' tactics since you already have a pretty good understanding.

I think prior to the LFR, it was easy to to find a decent server specific pug. Once content becomes farmable, trade and general chat tend to fill up with LFM for raid1 or raid2. Looking back at wrath, it was how myself and a few guildees were able to see 25 man content. Furthermore, because it was limited to the server, it forced players to behave themselves and be polite. You had your server reputation to maintain and wanted to show that you're a capable player. There were issues with loot and such, but that's still something there's an issue with. What i despise about LFR is that it's pretty much a joke, at times. I tend to multitask when doing LFR and not giving it my all, not that you really need to, but raids are made up of 100+ servers, you can say or do whatever you please with no drawback. The raid is disbanded and you go back to your server.

I really feel the game as evolved into more solo oriented content, even in LFR you don't have to coordinate much and any socializing is usually limited to a handful of players out of the pool of 25. Quests no longer require groups of people, there's a 'companion' to help you, which I think further keeps players from grouping up. Monsters that are "elite' are easily solo-able, which wasn't always the case for level appropriate foes.

For better or worse, the game has evolved into what it is. Raiding will never be what it was during vanilla or TBC, but at those times you didn't have 10 million players to keep happy - and even then people were still unhappy with various aspects.
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#24 Jan 12 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,745 posts
Quote:
The nice thing about LFR is that it allows people to get an idea of what to expect in a normal raid. My guild uses LFR to familiarize themselves with encounters a bit, which makes it easier to learn the 'normal' tactics since you already have a pretty good understanding.


Another nice thing about LFR -- you learn best by doing.

LFR is kinda like Training Wheels for Normal Raids. You go there in LFR, you see the rooms you fight these bosses in, you hear the voice quotes they say, you see a watered-down version of the fight, that way when you do it the first time in Normal, you already know what the room layout is like, you know some of the major things the boss says when he uses major abilities, you get an idea of what the fight is like.

You can get some of that from Tankspot videos, but to be honest, videos don't do it for me, especially when they are 780p and all grainy if I full-screen it and they have it zoomed way out and I can't see things like chat window logs and I can't read the raid warnings that pop up on screen in some of those videos, AND sometimes the addons they use in videos like that are distracting as they are not the same AddOns I use.

So, Doing > Watching someone else do it.

Now, watching someone else do it is better than nothing, true. But still I think LFR teaches you more than Tankspot videos do. So the logical progression is Tankspot -> Try it in LFR -> Normal.

And ontop of all of that, you might win a piece of gear to boot AND you gain a little VP. So why not go at least once?

Edited, Jan 12th 2013 9:27pm by Lyrailis
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