Thoughts on LFRFollow

It's sorta ment to be a joke. Its there for those who cant raid (mostly idiots) so they can see the content. It fixes the "only 5% of the playerbase saw this raid" problem Bliz had back in BC, and your coming in VERY late even for LFR standards so everyone already knows what they can and cant stand in, and what mechanics are super weak. LFR Garolon and Feng the Dragon used to have raid wiping mechanics even in LFR (Garolon crush/pheremons (nerfed now), Fengs 3rd phase (Stand in melee with the arcane debuff and could wipe the raid or close to) , and the Sun/Night Dragon I've still seen people wipe on just due to ignoring mechanics.



25 man raiding always feels this way, in 10 man you can feel awesome for doing 25% of the overall dmg (if you good) but thats near impossible for 25man, I mean theres a max of 100% as dps your splitting it 5-6 ways in 10 man, 18 ways in 25 as a healer 2-3 ways in 10 man. 10 man is more about individual responsibility with group play. 25 is more about cordination and group play I guess, as it hurts less to lose 1 dps on 25 man then 1 dps in 10. meh. Again LFR isnt there for a challenge really, its there as a stepping stone into real raiding content, they want to give you a taste so you want more and start real raiding therefore stay subbed longer. Kinda like a drug pusher, but since your already addicted to real raiding you feel let down by the potency of the watered down raiding experience.

Back when everyone was in greens and blues it was a tad more challenging and you couldnt just ignore everything like they do now. Also for those that are raiders it is helpful because we pay attention to boss abilities. So when we go into real raids we have a general idea of how each boss acts. Most bosses are LFR(Stripped down fights with low dmg), Real raids (Boss at normal strength +1 additional mechanic, in most cases), Heroic Raiding (Boss at high strength with +1 more additional mechanic). So when going into a raid you can just say, Ok whats the differences from LFR, and usually* its shorter to explain than training a new raider from cold start.

But yeah you know what real raiding is, as you used to raid. So now you go into LFR and expect the same kinda challenge, but its really not, its there to loot pinata to see the story and area. So everyone gets a chance to know the story etc, also its going to be a catch up mechanism for later patches.

But I completely understand where your coming from now, in most fights I wish I could die just because its so mind numbingly boring to just stand there and dps and really not pay attention to anything (the water elemental in TES is really bad about this).
Its kind of like expecting a Steven King Novel and getting a RL Stine book, it seems good at first, but is over way to quick with nothing of substance and isnt very memorable or scary (except that one about the damn ventriloquist dummies but those are their own form of creepy even without bad books about them)



Edited, Jan 11th 2013 2:32pm by BeanX

I still have yet to do LFR, due to an extreme fear of failing and wiping the group (Guardian Druid here ). But I actually figure that DMB will solve most of the "What should I do or avoid?" issues anyway.

More like I don't find raiding all that fun (or at least the drama with it). I would like some upgrades though, so I probably should wade in sometime

Never was a huge fan of the random-matching in either LFD or LFR. Too many people I'd just rather not play with. While I had plenty of good groups the 5-10% or so that were bad were enough to make me ditch the random finders all together. Even in SWTOR I avoided their LFD but managed to do my fair share of their heroic group quests and found them enjoyable.

As for LFR itself, I preferred 10-man raiding anyway and never liked the feeling of getting lost in a 25-man sea of confusion (Well that's what it felt like to me anyway... ). That dislike was only magnified by the amount of incoherent tomfoolery present in the random finder.

Oddly enough random battlegrouds never bothered me much, and things got even better when they added the pre-made battleground thingy (curse the bots though... ). Maybe I played enough unorganized sports on the playground as a kid or something, but it felt kinda like that, and it wasn't a bad thing.

At this point there is not much drama left in LFR because the chance of failing is so low. When Garalon still could (and would) wipe the raid a few times, oh boy. You could almost taste the nerdrage exploding in front of at least 15 monitors.
The only times I've seen insults in the last few IDs was when some ***** decided to roll Need on a lockbox or some random green item. While it really is a non-issue from a monetary pov it nevertheless grinds some peoples gear.

There is absolutely nothing funnier than the LFR chat. Especially when something goes bad and you need someone to blame. The 'burns' people throw at each other are absolutely ridiculous. I run LFR with a friend or 2 and we just crack up over vent. Sometimes, we do try to fan the flames of the chat so as to just get something more to laugh at.

I wish i could just join the chat without actually doing the raid.

You don't even know how much I would've loved to be in that group, just for the raid chat.

I only do LFR to get coins for the legendary quest (still not done. Like 8/4 -.-). I only do the 1st part of MSV and the very last one (endless springs?). Would love to get some tier tokens, but I have 0 luck. The LFR's version for Monk t14 looks so much better then normal/heroic.
LFR has netted me some decent gear tho. Have a nice looking Sha-touched staff... and some other LFR gear that has helped me out in Normal mode.

Blizzard designed LFR with you in mind. That's fine. It is what it is. It's easy. Don't get offended when someone points out that it's easy.

My original comments about LFR come from the perspective of having raided since TBC. I'm not hardcore, nor am I elitist. In fact, I'm probably barely competent when it boils down to it. But, I like the challenge of working together with people to overcome a hurdle and accomplish a goal. LFR, to me, removes the challenge and lowers the hurdle so much, that anyone can do it. Getting people see the content (part of Blizz's goal, obviously) is great, but for me, it loses its fun when it's not challenging. Like god-mode in any game...after the initial woohoo of it...playing without a challenge just isn't fun to me.

Please don't take offence at what I'm saying either. I'm just stating my perspective. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I'm just stating my opinion.

@azwing, BeanX:

I didn't take offense nor was I offended, I was just noting that it sounded a bit harsh.

I think Blizzard's style of thinking is "If LFR is boring to you/too easy for you, then find 9-24 players and do Normal instead".

I don't know if that is the "right" philosophy to have, but as even you two admit, LFR does fill a pretty good hole that has existed in the game for years -- casual people who want to see the story/bosses/areas who couldn't because they could not get into a raiding guild for whatever reason.

Should they have two LFRs, one easy like current, and one harder more like DS at the beginning? Sure. Is it feasible? I dunno, that's up to Blizz to decide.

The problem with that, is it'd work pretty much the same as LookingForGroup and/or Trade did before LFR DS:

"LFG [insert raid here], must have [insert item-level here that outgears the content] and achieves [for the content they are LFGing for]".

Instead of those, you'd have people who don't have the achieves who need the gear sitting in this LFR idea of yours for hours while the people who have the achieves and already outgear the content would get chosen.

That's why only a blind Queue system will work. The playerbase has proven this as a hard fact in the past. Blizzard knows players will NOT be nice to each other in any shape, form, way, or manner unless they are forced to.

LFR DS had lots of loot issues... so they gave us this new "Elder Charm of 28g" system, for example.

As awesome as that would be...

1). Blizzard never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER publically shames anyone, and they expressly forbid this being done by players even if there is insurmountable proof of their misdeeds.

2). It can take a week or more for Blizzard to ever take action, with their current workload. Add MORE workload to their plates and you could easily see the responses climb to 2+ weeks before reported offenses are actioned.

Now, onto the rest of your post:

I could understand adding some sort of "Raid Fill" system for Normal Raids, but whatever we do, please do not suggest they remove LFR in its current form. People use it, people love it and it works. Now, I agree, it is sad that there are many players who want something harder than LFR, but yet can't do Normal Raids because of various issues and an idea like yours could be a good start towards it.

Another nice thing about LFR -- you learn best by doing.

LFR is kinda like Training Wheels for Normal Raids. You go there in LFR, you see the rooms you fight these bosses in, you hear the voice quotes they say, you see a watered-down version of the fight, that way when you do it the first time in Normal, you already know what the room layout is like, you know some of the major things the boss says when he uses major abilities, you get an idea of what the fight is like.

You can get some of that from Tankspot videos, but to be honest, videos don't do it for me, especially when they are 780p and all grainy if I full-screen it and they have it zoomed way out and I can't see things like chat window logs and I can't read the raid warnings that pop up on screen in some of those videos, AND sometimes the addons they use in videos like that are distracting as they are not the same AddOns I use.

So, Doing > Watching someone else do it.

Now, watching someone else do it is better than nothing, true. But still I think LFR teaches you more than Tankspot videos do. So the logical progression is Tankspot -> Try it in LFR -> Normal.

And ontop of all of that, you might win a piece of gear to boot AND you gain a little VP. So why not go at least once?

Edited, Jan 12th 2013 9:27pm by Lyrailis