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Opinion On: Panda DailiesFollow

#1 Nov 11 2012 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Panda changed the way dailies are handled a lot. You need the rep with Golden Lotus, Shado-Pan, etc... if you want to purchase Valor or Justice point items now, and the only way to get that rep is through the daily's. Blizzard's stance seems to be that the daily's aren't necessary to get geared, and as a result you don't need to do them, however I know myself and some of my friends are from the view point that, yes it's not necessary for gearing, but the plus sides to having access to Valor points and the other reputation perks, are too big to not do the daily's. Technically we aren't forced to do them, but practically, we are.
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#2 Nov 11 2012 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I think they should consider down the road making many of the items bind on account for alts. Been doing some of them on my main and they get old really quick really.
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#3 Nov 11 2012 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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In 5.1, you get double rep for your alts and once you hit Revered, you get double rep until exalted.

Not sure if the Double Rep from buying the token AND the double rep after revered stack or not, but if it did, reps will be really fast once you get Revered, especially on alts.

Either way, it is still quite a nice improvement, as this takes away 10,500 rep you need to get which is 25% of all the rep needed to get from 0 neutral to exalted from your main, and the total rep from 0 neutral to exalted on an alt (without stacking) is only 21,000. That's like having everyone start at Revered.

Not to mention, surely these double rep tokens stack with racial/guild perks too? So if a rep normally gives 250... you should get 500 from the token and then another 50 from the perk, bringing that up to 550 out of what was once a 250 quest?

As to whether or not you "must" do dailies...

You can get full 463 by doing Heroics and Scenarios; you can buy a few pieces of 476 gear that ain't that too hard to make (the plate armor uses 5-8 living steel per, plus spirits, but those aren't hard to get), and you can get 558 from Justice vendors, when you just can't fill a slot no matter what you try.

These are easily enough to get into LFR (which I've heard is quite easy). Some lucky drops with LFR and you'll be wearing 470+ in no time.

Edited, Nov 11th 2012 10:16pm by Lyrailis
#4 Nov 11 2012 at 10:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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To what extent have there ever been dailies that weren't necessary in the sense you've defined? You want that we should go jousting?

Rep grinds have been annoying since their first introduction, these are at least less annoying than older ones. We aren't forced to grind for head and shoulder enchants and for that alone I'm deliriously happy.
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#5 Nov 12 2012 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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It is a mixed bag.

Truly optional dailies like the Tillers & Anglers provide nice break. Much like Pet Battles, they enhance the end game by giving us something to do & work towards.

Forced rep grinds like Golden Lotus, or even worse gated rep grinds like August Celestials are bunk. They are simply a way to force people to log on and do something. Molten Front Dailies and ToC dailies gave you goodies, such as titles, pets, etc. You don't have to do it, to progrsss in raid content. But with the current set up, gearing up and pushing content without valour gear is doing it with one arm behind your back. Even more so after 5.1 and the gear upgrades. It is also clear that the playerbase doesn't enjoy it. More so they don't buy into Blizzards reasoning for it.

Obviously at some point later in the expansion they will make gaining rep become a joke, new & returning players won't want to come in and have to farm 3 weeks for Golden Lotus to get access to gear. So rep gained will be increased. Right now, it is the only stumbling block of an otherwise solid expansion.

Edited, Nov 12th 2012 1:15am by bodhisattva
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#6 Nov 12 2012 at 12:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Well other then Golden Lotus they are stupid quick, even quicker in a group, and almost all of Them have VP gear at Revered. Exalted is for mounts/special. So I dont understand why everyone is whining. I have 2 90 toons atm, Rogue 479 ilvl and hes almost exalted with everyone, and My warrior who's 473 and is only revered with Klaxxi, and Exalted with tillers cuase their easy.

So in other words if gear is your only worry just get revered and stop doing em. But On average tillers took about 15 mins to do, Golden Lotus about 40 mins(20 in a group), Klaxxi about 20 mins (Mostly depends on the daily group) Shadowpan about 20 mins, August celestials about 10-15 mins (depends on that days temple), and CloudSerpent people like 30 mins give or take.

Yes when your doing all the dailies at the same time it feels like overkill, and youll burn yourself out, and if you would prefer you can always go for a Hozen Peace Pipe.

Edited, Nov 12th 2012 12:46am by BeanX
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#7 Nov 12 2012 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
BeanX wrote:

So in other words if gear is your only worry just get revered and stop doing em. But On average tillers took about 15 mins to do, Golden Lotus about 40 mins(20 in a group), Klaxxi about 20 mins (Mostly depends on the daily group) Shadowpan about 20 mins, August celestials about 10-15 mins (depends on that days temple), and CloudSerpent people like 30 mins give or take.

Yes when your doing all the dailies at the same time it feels like overkill, and youll burn yourself out, [...] [/link].


Almost 2.5 hours (or more) to do all the dailies, solo, with the "needed" people? That is 30min shy (or all my time) of all my play time I can give during the week, and this is where my issue is at. I would totally tank more Heroic Randoms if I could just put a tabard on and run a few each night and gain rep with groups.
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#8 Nov 12 2012 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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There's no dailies you have to do. You do them because you want the reward. If you feel burnt out just do one or 2 factions and log out or spot.

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#9 Nov 12 2012 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So I dont understand why everyone is whining.


Golden Lotus is about 2 weeks of dailies that take 30-40 minutes to clear to hit revered. That is a lot of /played to open up yet more dailies to grind. I can agree with you on a level, but for the players who are trying to zerg it or multiple reps at a time it is an easy way to burn out.
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#10 Nov 12 2012 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
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So I dont understand why everyone is whining.


Golden Lotus is about 2 weeks of dailies that take 30-40 minutes to clear to hit revered. That is a lot of /played to open up yet more dailies to grind. I can agree with you on a level, but for the players who are trying to zerg it or multiple reps at a time it is an easy way to burn out.
On the other hand, those same players who burn out from the rep grind never would have survived as raiders in vanilla.

Take that, clam stackers. Smiley: tongue



If the emoticon wasn't clear enough, this post was meant to be very tongue-in-cheek. The following spoiler is rated PG-13:If you were offended, please go **** yourself, because seriously, you need to get laid and obviously no one else is doing it.
#11 Nov 12 2012 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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ACLinjury wrote:
There's no dailies you have to do.


If you are in a progression guild, you kind of do. My current guild isn't progression but we are top 10 on server (6/6 MoV, 3/6 HoF), we have 2-3 players who haven't done the dailies (myself included). I was about 15-18 Ilvl's behind our Druid who has everything maxed. I wasn't competitive, it took me getting some lucky HoF gear and getting Golden Lotus Revered to swing up to 481 equipped ilvl.

If I wasn't raiding with people I have played with since 2009 and was in a competitive raid group how long do you think they would put up with me not doing dailies to get upgrades?
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#12 Nov 12 2012 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Poldy, I am supposed to be the foulmouthed grouch, my koolaid get off it.

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#13 Nov 12 2012 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
Not sure if the Double Rep from buying the token AND the double rep after revered stack or not, but if it did, reps will be really fast once you get Revered, especially on alts.


The token is their way of putting in the double rep after revered. You have to be revered to buy them. A blue said that they didn't make it an automatic switch because there was no good way to show that you are now getting double rep. Plus it makes it easy for them to pick and choose which reps that want to have that halved at Revered part. So if they want the old school reps to still have the normal amount of revered rep, they can.

I guess I'm just mostly annoyed about the time thing. I'm in 12th grade right now trying to balance high school, college prep, and my free time. As a result, my free time isn't much. To have to do Golden Lotus just to do dailies with Shado-Pan and Celestials is really annoying. It's an additional level of grinding that I simply don't have the time to do.
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#14 Nov 12 2012 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
ACLinjury wrote:
There's no dailies you have to do.


If you are in a progression guild, you kind of do. My current guild isn't progression but we are top 10 on server (6/6 MoV, 3/6 HoF), we have 2-3 players who haven't done the dailies (myself included). I was about 15-18 Ilvl's behind our Druid who has everything maxed. I wasn't competitive, it took me getting some lucky HoF gear and getting Golden Lotus Revered to swing up to 481 equipped ilvl.

If I wasn't raiding with people I have played with since 2009 and was in a competitive raid group how long do you think they would put up with me not doing dailies to get upgrades?


I understand that there may be circumstances that require you to grind dailies, but it's still a game and you chose to join a progression guild or a casual guild. There are no daily requirements other than those you've imposed on yourself.

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#15 Nov 12 2012 at 10:40 AM Rating: Default
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ACLinjury wrote:
There are no daily requirements other than those you've imposed on yourself.


Blizzard creates a carrot. For some players a mandatory carrot that is required in order to play at a level they have participated at for years. In Mists they then create an additional grind in order to access the carrot, above and beyond the time honored requirement of 'farming valor'. Then they put the blame on the player base for hating the content they are forced to play in order to get the mandatory carrot.


At best it is poor game design.
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#16 Nov 12 2012 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Take that, clam stackers. Smiley: tongue
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#17 Nov 12 2012 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:

Almost 2.5 hours (or more) to do all the dailies, solo, with the "needed" people? That is 30min shy (or all my time) of all my play time I can give during the week, and this is where my issue is at. I would totally tank more Heroic Randoms if I could just put a tabard on and run a few each night and gain rep with groups.


Well if your playing 3 hours a week you arent the intended target, your not raiding, it sounds like, so you can pick and choose who you want to do and how fast, I mean of course your going to be slower the someone that plays 3 hours everyday.

bodhisattva wrote:

Golden Lotus is about 2 weeks of dailies that take 30-40 minutes to clear to hit revered.


Yes, but you can halve that if you find a group for those dailies.

bodhisattva wrote:


If you are in a progression guild, you kind of do. My current guild isn't progression but we are top 10 on server (6/6 MoV, 3/6 HoF), we have 2-3 players who haven't done the dailies (myself included). I was about 15-18 Ilvl's behind our Druid who has everything maxed. I wasn't competitive, it took me getting some lucky HoF gear and getting Golden Lotus Revered to swing up to 481 equipped ilvl.


Uhm Your not 18 ilvl behind the druid because your not exalted with ALL reps. He either had better/more drops, bought the crafted 496 gear, or saved all his greater tokens and got awesome drops with HoF LFR/Normal/Heroic MSV. I kinda show that with my 2 toons Bacon, the warrior was a week later hitting 90 and im 6 ilvls behind my main Dracian. The only way that would be more feasible is if you were 3k/3k VP capped every week and had nothing to spend your points on, and since the weekly cap is 1k vp anyway. It would take you 3 weeks to reach that point, which if you choose to do only 1 set of dailies a day, you should have enough rep to buy something ( **** you hit near half way thru Honored Klaxxi just doing the entire Dread wastes SL). Not to mention VP gear is ilvl 489 so even in full VP gear you would be behind him.

My point being. If you take out all non-gear related reps (Tillers, Cloud Serpents, Anglers), you're left with Klaxxi, Golden Lotus, August Celestials, and Shado-pan. So until revered with GL/Klaxxi, you only need to do those, I think Klaxxi you get about 1.5k-2k a day rep( I could be wrong) from the basic dailies, and GL you get like 1.2k a day, now Im going to guess after basic lvling/question in correct zones. you start off Neutral with GL and I'm guessing about beginning honored, so you need 12k Klaxxi rep to reach Revered or about 7-10 days. Maybe a tad longer if you didn't quest in Dread Wastes leveling. As for Golden Lotus, just dailies takes like 3-4 weeks to get to revered.

Now Ill completely agree with all of you about GL being a grind, but as for raiding it's less about the rep grinds for VP as your capped weekly anyway, and more about the lesser tokens for the 3 loot tokens a week, so as a raider you need at least 90 lesser tokens a week. How you get there is up to you, but if you do only the dailies for raiding, thats means 45 quests a week, or could be broken down to revering Klaxxi the first week, and Golden Lotus, subsequent weeks for 45 quests a week, by the time you had enough VP to buy all three of the Klaxxi purples you would be, close to Revered with Golden Lotus only doing dailies for your Loot tokens.

Sorry just to show you all something Im going to put all the mathy stuff out.
Klaxxi VP items, neck (Honored,1250), waist(1750), pants(2250) ilvl 489 total VP to buy all 3 = 5250 VP
Weekly VP Cap 1000, 5.25 weeks to obtain all VP gear
Approx Rep a day 1.5k Totals number of daily quests a day, 8
Amount of Daily quests to get Greater charms a week 45, Amount of rep received if all 45 are Klaxxi dailies 6750 rep a week (45* 150 rep per quest).
Approx. 3 weeks to go from starter rep (about half way throu honored) to revered 3 weeks (maybe less kinda estimating)

Golden Lotus is about 10 quests a day @ 130 = 1300 rep a day
Vp pieces Ilvl 489 Ring (Honored, 1250), Chest (revered, 2250), Shoulders(revered, 1750) Total VP to buy all = 5,250
Weekly VP Cap 1000, Approx weeks to buy all VP Gear 5.25
Amount of Daily quests to get Greater charms a week 45, Amount of rep received if all 45 are Golden Lotus dailies 5,625/week
Amount of weeks to go from Neutral to Revered (total 21k rep) 4 Weeks doing only dailies for Tokens.

I think you might see the pattern. To fully Vp out every item it would take 21 weeks of VP cap every week, but would take about 16 weeks of dailies to revere every faction(with VP), ONLY DOING dailies for Lesser charms to raid which = only 3-5 days of doing dailies with just one faction.

Now were forgetting another point for the raider, Only MSV drops ilvl 489 (same ilvl as VP), HoF drops 496, and Not sure about TES (Terrace of Endless Spings)

So if a raider only did weekly lesser token (90) dailies, for greater tokens, Rep items suddenly become side/options for slot. So Bliz was right Vp is good for casuals doing Raidfinder, since it stays a higher Ilvl til terrace. But for raiders its outclassed by HoF.




Edited, Nov 12th 2012 11:21am by BeanX

Edited, Nov 12th 2012 11:59am by BeanX
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#18 Nov 12 2012 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
Poldy, I am supposed to be the foulmouthed grouch, my koolaid get off it.
You've been in a good mood lately. Wasn't sure you were still up to the challenge.

Plus, I try not to let an opportunity to talk **** about clam stackers pass me by.
#19 Nov 12 2012 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Druid has replaced some of the vp gear already, but currently has 3 pieces of epic from Klaaxi that I don't, so 463 vs 489. 2 weeks ago when I was still mostly blue and HoF gear hadn't popped it was even more noticeable.

I had even watched the Weekly Marmot where Lore broke down the whole Daily grind, and at the time I agreed with him. However 5 weeks back into the game and I am loving the raid content, loving Tillers, loving professions, pet battle and haven't even found the time to start pvp'ing. But each time I force myself to do a daily I hate it just a little bit more. Thought to be fair in other threads I have stated that I have resigned myself to the fact that I am not willing to commit the time to grinding out an aspect of the game I thoroughly dislike and have come to terms with being behind the gear curve of my raid.

With the 5.1 upgrades, it has become even more important that I get those reps up because it is no longer a case only being a hurdle during the initial gear up, but not with the upgrades it will perform against raid gear unless you are pushing HM's, which I hope to do by the time it releases, but you never know


Edited, Nov 12th 2012 12:46pm by bodhisattva
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#20 Nov 12 2012 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can understand why many people don't want do to the dailies. But this "Blizzard forces us to do them" is just wrong. Sure if you want to be bleeding edge you have to do them. But that's entirely up to each player. I don't think Classic/BC were any less demanding for a hardcore progression raider. I haven't played Classic at all and BC extremely casual so I could be wrong. But that's the trade-off for being on top. A huge time commitment plus the skill to take the gear to good use.

And thanks to crafted gear, LFR, world bosses and the odd epic drop in HC dungeons it is possible to get decent equip without doing dailies.
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#21 Nov 12 2012 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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TherealLogros wrote:
I don't think Classic/BC were any less demanding for a hardcore progression raider. I haven't played Classic at all and BC extremely casual so I could be wrong. But that's the trade-off for being on top.
I can't seem to find it, but on my old guild forums, we posted a copy of the requirements one of the more progressed guilds on our server had for progression Naxx40 raiders. The list of weekly consumables was immense and ridiculous. I think I calculated it out to needing around 20 hours of farming a week at my gold/mats gathering speed at the time in order to be ready for the week's raids. And back then, many of us considered that completely reasonable.
#22 Nov 12 2012 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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I was in University & didn't raid in Vanilla, but in TBC, to be good for a 5 day week of raiding I farmed for maybe 1 hour a week when it came to consumables. That covered my flasks and mana pots when you could gulp multiple pots in a raid. The slowest part was having 2-3 stacks of food, depending on how lazy I was I would mooch it from someone in raid.

I had a run in netherstorm and another in Terrokar forest that was pretty minty. I also traded with a rogue, as the stuff he didn't use I used and vice a versa.
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#23 Nov 12 2012 at 7:03 PM Rating: Good
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"Forced rep grinds like Golden Lotus, or even worse gated rep grinds like August Celestials are bunk."


They suck and I am not going to do them. It's annoying that Bliz would make so much of the game overly easy and simple to attract more customers, then do this kind of nonsense that many, many people just flat-out will not do.
#24 Nov 12 2012 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/244405-farewell-wow-mop-rip/
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#25 Nov 12 2012 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good


So I read all of that. I would like to see a Champion system. Maybe I can champion one group, while doing the dailies with another but gain rep with each. In doing so the Other group's dailies are "done" for me for the day (to stop double gain). Would be awesome if I could earn rep with the "needed" ones while I did the dailies for the Farmers and the Fishers.

Quote:
Well if your playing 3 hours a week you arent the intended target, your not raiding, it sounds like, so you can pick and choose who you want to do and how fast, I mean of course your going to be slower the someone that plays 3 hours everyday.


Early morning post got me there :3 not 3hours a week, 3 hours a day. More on the weekend. I do raid, and we go 3 nights (we still have an issue with mechanics on Guard Dogs in Vaults, hopefully the issue with a few players can be resolved/weeded out this week) in Vaults. I've not stepped into LFR, but I may end up doing so maybe this week if the guild goes again.

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#26 Nov 13 2012 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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LoL, seriously?

The guy has a family, a job, and leveled nine freaking alts in ~48 days and he's complaining about not enough time to do one character's dailies up to Revered (so that he can get the double rep in 5.1)?

Um.......whaaaaaaat?

My God, if he can level nine characters that fast, surely he's got 30 minutes to spend per day doing a few dailies?

And pretty soon he'd be done with leveling (he can only have 11 per server) at that rate, and surely he can pick one "main" and do the dailies on said "main".

But that's just my opinion.

The Golden Lotus dailies don't take that long; once you do the initial few quests, you can do all the Golden Lotus stuff within half an hour. It ain't that hard, really. I wouldn't want to do that on multiple characters in the same day, of course not. I'd pick one and do it on them. Or get a guildie or buddy and group up with em and do it; it goes by even quicker.

Klaxxi, that's about 20 min or so once you've unlocked everything through normal quests (which gets you Honored by itself, without dailies).

Tillers? lol, I can get that done in 10-15min and it takes just over a week to get exalted.

Haven't tried Anglers or Cloud Serpents yet, but do they even sell gear?
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