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Old instances revisited - UghFollow

#1 Sep 12 2012 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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So I leveled a DK the past week and over the weekend I geared him so I could tank LFR with it. In the process, naturally, I used LFG which as a tank is incredibly efficient.

As Heroics I think I ran ToT twice, HoO (full clear and without a healer!!! - we four manned it but we had massive dps), Deadmines, Grim Batol, SFK twice, ZA, VP and Stonecore. I was dying to get onto the newer instances if only to never again have to do Deadmines or SFK. Long, twisty and just plain annoying. Even today many people don't even understand the mechanics in some Deadmines bosses, or even pulls (remember the enraged normals?) which made it even more annoying.

So that got me thinking about MoP and it revisiting instances too, SM and RFC I think? ... Now I haven't been in the beta, but I really, really hope Blizzard hasn't come up with something as lame as what they came up for SFK and DM. Can anyone confirm this?

Also if you really liked DM and SFK I'd love to know what it is you liked.

IMO Wotlk had some very interesting instances (UP was killer fun, for instace), and some of the Cata instances were fun too, admitedly way too long though, GB for instance took an hour++ with no wipes to clear when it was released. And most people wiped a few times specially on the first boss during the first month (I left the game after that til a month ago for RL stuff).

Those two though ...

Edited, Sep 12th 2012 4:11pm by LGarth
#2 Sep 12 2012 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
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Recently started a new Warlock and got into Ragefire Chasm at level 15. Was slightly underwhelmed by the length of the dungeon now that it's been streamlined, but I kind of liked the boss fights. They've revamped it much in the "preparing you for raids" style they used in The Deadmines. You've got to dodge fire and stuff. Still hilariously easy, though. We 2-manned most of it because our healer and tank bailed instantly upon entry.

I'm one of the masochistic people who enjoy Shadowfang Keep and The Deadmines. Sure, they take a while to complete, but I like the layout of the dungeon, the boss fight mechanics and the story, especially in The Deadmines. It's also fun watching self-proclaimed elite players get **** by Vanessa when she ragequits at the end. Smiley: lol

One negative comment on The Deadmines, however, is that some of the stuff in there hits too freakin' hard for the new "active mitigation" thing. I popped all my cooldowns on a normal trash pull and still didn't survive more than five seconds without healing.
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#3 Sep 13 2012 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
I'm one of the masochistic people who enjoy Shadowfang Keep and The Deadmines. Sure, they take a while to complete, but I like the layout of the dungeon, the boss fight mechanics and the story, especially in The Deadmines. It's also fun watching self-proclaimed elite players get **** by Vanessa when she ragequits at the end. Smiley: lol
I agree with you on SFK. Still fun. Never gotten an 85 Deadmines group that didn't bail on the instance at the entrance, though.
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#4 Sep 13 2012 at 4:20 AM Rating: Good
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They should have put H DM and H SFK as slightly more difficult heroics with slightly better loot. Really wouldn't have hurt them to put some low end epics on the final boss in those two dungeons.
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#5 Sep 13 2012 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Never gotten an 85 Deadmines group that didn't bail on the instance at the entrance, though.


I usually run as a tank and I never bail on instances. Thus, yeah, sometimes one dps might leave, for some reason healer types leave less (???), but dpsers are quick to come by, and a couple of seconds later you'll get another one. If that one bails, a replacement won't take long and anyway 4 man you can advance and clear most instances.

I still hate those two regardless.
#6 Sep 13 2012 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
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I don't get why people bail on a heroic. 30-minute lockout instead of running a 30-minute dungeon and getting 70/150 JP and some gold. I get that you can burn out on a certain heroic if it pops up a lot, but what are you going to do in the 30 minutes you can't do dungeons? Sit around in Orgrimmar/Stormwind and read Trade Chat? Smiley: dubious
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#7 Sep 14 2012 at 1:03 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
I don't get why people bail on a heroic. 30-minute lockout instead of running a 30-minute dungeon and getting 70/150 JP and some gold. I get that you can burn out on a certain heroic if it pops up a lot, but what are you going to do in the 30 minutes you can't do dungeons? Sit around in Orgrimmar/Stormwind and read Trade Chat? Smiley: dubious


Possible scenario: Log in, queue for HC, start doing dailies. When you get DM, you bail, continue doing dailies. By the time the deserter debuff has worn off you'll be mostly finishing/finished with your dailies. Not a lot of time wasted and you don't get to run an instance you don't like. Of course, other people might just sit in Org/Sto and do AH stuff and troll trade. Or farm matts. Or level up a craft. Or work on an achievement. Or run an old instance farming a mount ....

In any case, if a significant amount of people bail on DM or SFK, there's something that didn't really work out as planned by devs right there.

Edited, Sep 14th 2012 3:04am by LGarth
#8 Sep 14 2012 at 8:55 AM Rating: Good
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Current LFD system has a major plot hole.

At current 85 a toon is expected to progress - Reg. > HC > Troll > DW Heroics....

The problem is that the current system breaks the LFD tool into 3 sections.

Reg. Heroic. and DW Heroics.


This means that you have roughly and equal chance to get every non-DW Heroic in that middle tier. The problem is ~ to get out of the middle tier, you generally need to do the Troll Heroics. Yes, you could grind for VP/JP... But that won't get you every slot and it's definitely not the most efficient way... (Plus you are continuing to run content where there is almost no chance you could get an upgrade... Which is frustrating.)


Hopefully this is not overlooked in MoP.
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#9 Sep 14 2012 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Borsuk wrote:
Current LFD system has a major plot hole.

At current 85 a toon is expected to progress - Reg. > HC > Troll > DW Heroics....

The problem is that the current system breaks the LFD tool into 3 sections.

Reg. Heroic. and DW Heroics.


This means that you have roughly and equal chance to get every non-DW Heroic in that middle tier. The problem is ~ to get out of the middle tier, you generally need to do the Troll Heroics. Yes, you could grind for VP/JP... But that won't get you every slot and it's definitely not the most efficient way... (Plus you are continuing to run content where there is almost no chance you could get an upgrade... Which is frustrating.)


Hopefully this is not overlooked in MoP.

You will get the points to get your iLevel high enough for the last 3 heroics long before you would have enough drops from troll instances. It only takes 4 pieces of 378 gear if you have full 346. If you count the 397 cloak from the Thrall quest, it's only 2 pieces of Justice gear. Throw in a couple pieces from the first Firelands vendor, and you can get away with having a few 333 pieces too.

HoT heroics won't be easy if you're the tank or healer in avg 353 gear, but it's not impossible.
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#10 Sep 16 2012 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Once you get ilvl 346 gear, it's definitely easier and faster to grind Justice Points. You can currently buy ilvl 397 gear with Justice Points and you can get ilvl 397 vendor gear for every slot except for the second ring and trinket slots and shoulders (infuriating).

Valor Quartermaster sells (for JP):

Head - 2,200
Legs - 2,200
Chest - 2,200

Waist - 1,650
Gloves - 1,650
Trinket - 1,650

Back - 1,250
Wrists - 1,250
Neck - 1,250
Ring - 1,250

Wand - 700

Thrall's cloak is only ilvl 365, but it's easy to get, allowing you to spend those 1,250 on something else instead of buying the cloak. Due to the normalization of mana pools and active mitigation change, you can probably jump into HoT heroics the moment you have the gear for it. I mean, I've got an average ilvl of 388 on my Druid and healers still have to play whack-a-mole with their biggest heals when I run those dungeons. RNG based active mitigation is hilarious.

Edited, Sep 16th 2012 4:51pm by Mazra
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