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Please read if you lack 10k DPS - The good versionFollow

#1 Dec 21 2011 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
DarkPoet2011 wrote:
So piss off if you don't like it write your own :)


I decided to take the above advice and write my own guide to getting that 10k dps...




~ 1. Gem/enchant/reforge your gear (if you can't afford the higher end gems, get lower end gems temporarily to get something in there - EJ, many other forum threads, and guildmates can help you here).

~ 2. Learn the most recommended spec and rotation for your class and spec (EJ, many other forum threads, and guildmates can help you here. Additionally - Noxxic is also another site that can help)

~ 3. Don't be stupid. Stop standing in that crap on the ground causing you to die. You may be standing in stuff you can't see clearly, but are obviously taking damage. The addon GTFO is your friend.

~ 4. Go pick up easy solo-obtainable upgrades that are just waiting for you to walk up to the NPCs and take them (Thrall's Cape, nice pieces of gear the first day of the Molton Front dailies, etc).

~ 5. DPS while important is secondary to group survival. If you lose dps to do some CC or other utility role that is perfectly right and proper.

~ 6. Don't expect to get healed. If you do it's a bonus, but the healer is there to keep the tank up and as many others as possible. If you take significant damage then you're probably doing something wrong.

~ 7. L2Play

~ 8. ???

~ 9. Profit!



Feel free to correct or add more! =D

ETA - All additions =)

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 3:18pm by xNocturnalSunx
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#2 Dec 21 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
5. ???


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#3 Dec 21 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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7). Go pick up easy solo-obtainable upgrades that are just waiting for you to walk up to the NPCs and take them. Thrall's Cape. A 365 Ring from First day of MF, etc.

Not expecting everyone to grind out for 3 months doing MF, but the very first day gives everyone a Ring, and Strength Plate-Wearers get Boots, Necklace and a Ring. Even Plate DPS; a reforged I-365 tank item is way better than that 318-333 junk you were wearing.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 11:03am by Lyrailis
#4 Dec 21 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
3. Don't be stupid. Stop standing in that crap on the ground causing you to die. Obviously, you're taking damage.


Suggested revision: You may be standing in stuff you can't see clearly. The addon GTFO is your friend.
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#5 Dec 21 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I found Noxxic very simple for advice on rotations, stat priorities etc. I've never seen it mentioned here which either means I made a decent find or its all horribly wrong.

Anyways it helped me Smiley: smile

I would add to the new guide :-

8. DPS while important is secondary to group survival. If you lose dps to do some CC or other utility role that is perfectly right and proper.
9. Don't expect to get healed. If you do its a bonus. But the healer is there to keep the tank up and as many others as possible. If you take significant damage then you're probably doing something wrong.
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#6 Dec 21 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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This thread is AWESOME.
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#7 Dec 21 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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Don't see any difference to the other thread.







I keed, I keed. Well done.


Contains the right amount of information to not overwhelm but help a long way in improving the readers play.
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#8 Dec 21 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
TherealLogros wrote:
Don't see any difference to the other thread.







I keed, I keed. Well done.


Contains the right amount of information to not overwhelm but help a long way in improving the readers play.


I think the only real difference is that I don't overexaggerate with capitalized words and random cussing. =P
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#9 Dec 21 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Useful info, thanks. Question, though, from a guy who is trying to play without constantly looking up spoiler threads/sites (I know - RTFM - but that's what I told other folks.

What is "MF" ?
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#10 Dec 21 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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You can always ask your guild for help. Just be polite and listen to suggestions. I've found that guilds tend to know their members and usually want you to improve without sacrificing the fun factor. They usually wont make you go from Spec A to Spec B because it's the best, they'll just suggest how you improve Spec A and what to look into.

Be respectful.
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#11 Dec 21 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ollamnh wrote:
What is "MF" ?


Molten Front.

It's a solo questline that you can start once you get to the level cap. I won't spoil it or anything, but there's some decent rewards at various stages. The gear is weaker than what you can acquire in dungeons/raids/etc, but still it's a nice place to start. As was mentioned you can unlock the first of the rewards the first day with a bit over an hour of work.
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#12 Dec 21 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Ollamnh wrote:
What is "MF" ?

In this context it's "Molten Front". It's a daily quest hub in Mount Hyjal. At 85 there should be a quest at the quest board in a major city leading you there.
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#13 Dec 21 2011 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Lyrailis wrote:

Not expecting everyone to grind out for 3 months doing MF, but the very first day gives everyone a Ring, and Strength Plate-Wearers get Boots, Necklace and a Ring. Even Plate DPS; a reforged I-365 tank item is way better than that 318-333 junk you were wearing.


You got that backwards dude, it gives everyone a necklace. I don't know anything about a ring.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 1:10pm by PigtailsOfDoom
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#14 Dec 21 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Default
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:

Not expecting everyone to grind out for 3 months doing MF, but the very first day gives everyone a Ring, and Strength Plate-Wearers get Boots, Necklace and a Ring. Even Plate DPS; a reforged I-365 tank item is way better than that 318-333 junk you were wearing.


You got that backwards dude, it gives everyone a necklace. I don't know anything about a ring.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 1:10pm by PigtailsOfDoom


Nope no rings.... lol

365-Finger-Melee-Meteorite Ring

365-Finger-Physical DPS-Band of Glittering Lights

365-Finger-Melee-Moon Blessed Band

365-Finger-Spell DPS-Spirit Fragment Band

365-Finger-Tank-Nemesis Shell Band

365-Finger-Tank-Lylagar Horn Ring
#15 Dec 21 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
Read the post again little one, we're talking about the rewards you get on the first day.
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#16 Dec 21 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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My shaman grabbed a ring really quick for the enhance spec. IIRC, this.

(Really I only remembered because I was wishing they gave a caster ring instead. My resto spec already had better neck, but was using a ilvl300 green ring). Smiley: frown

From this dude I think.

Edit: link fail, woot! Smiley: grin

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 12:55pm by someproteinguy
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#17 Dec 21 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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First day unlocks

STR Necklace
AGI Ring
Caster Necklace
Plate Tank Boots


All the other vendors require 125 Marks to unlock. Obviously not something you have access to on the first day.



Edited, Dec 21st 2011 4:15pm by xinaskin
#18 Dec 21 2011 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
xinaskin wrote:
First day unlocks

STR Ring
AGI Ring
Caster Necklace
Plate Tank Boots


All the other vendors require 125 Marks to unlock. Obviously not something you have access to on the first day.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 3:52pm by xinaskin



I'm pretty sure what you have down as the Strength ring is a neckpiece =P
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#19 Dec 21 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Except your "STR Ring" is a necklace Smiley: smile

and unless I have it seriously wrong you have to get both the druids and the wardens onside before you get new vendors. That is more than 125 marks

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 3:59pm by Cobra101
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#20 Dec 21 2011 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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On second thought I think your'e right about the amount of marks it takes to unlock the vendors.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 4:24pm by xinaskin
#21 Dec 21 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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The abbreviated version:

Equip armor and weapons, hit stuff and don't stand in fire.

Follow those simple rules and I guarantee that you'll almost always not suck 100% of the time.

I think. Smiley: um

Edited, Dec 22nd 2011 12:24am by Mazra
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#22 Dec 21 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cobra101 wrote:
Except your "STR Ring" is a necklace Smiley: smile


Now THAT is what they mean by "pencil neck"!
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#23 Dec 22 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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If you cannot do over 10k dps I guarantee it has 10x more to do with your rotation than your gear.

I have played almost every class at 85 so far and for most of them 10k dps was feasible before they ever hit a heroic.

I don't understand why people get so upset when characters show up for random dungeons in pvp gear. The only role that cannot function in pvp gear in heroics is the tank and ferals can pull that off. I have grouped with healers who kept the group alive every fight in full pvp and dps that do over 20k in full pvp. Even with the loss of a secondary stat to resil the new crafted pvp gear is still going to outperform older drops from heroics and you can get hit capped for heroics by just adding in a hit trinket.

I have had some failures who were in a full set of pvp gear but I don't blame the fail on their pvp gear.

Now raiding is another issue. I don't like to see characters in PvP gear in my raids. While there are times in heroics where that dps doing 1% more dps or a healer getting off 1 more heal would have prevented a wipe it's not a big a deal to me as wiping a 5-10 minute raid fight when the boss has under 1% left.
#24 Dec 22 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Default
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xinaskin wrote:
If you cannot do over 10k dps I guarantee it has 10x more to do with your rotation than your gear.



My Spriest is wearing quest gear + Blue PVP stuff. It's the gear.

IMO - everyone else is being a massive "Richard" by showing up to my tank run in PVP gear and/or wearing practically worthless off-spec gear... So why shouldn't I do it too.


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#25 Dec 22 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I'll admit I have not played a priest, shaman, or warlock at 85. I have played everything else and with a few exceptions all of the chars I played were doing between 8-12k dps when they first hit a normal heroic.

The original thread was about doing less than 10k dps in HoT heroics. If you have the gear to do a HoT heroic and you can't do 10k dps it's not your gear. Any dps spec with 350+ilvl gear is capable of doing 10k dps.


And I still don't understand why people get butthurt about chars in pvp gear. My DK for example is 390+ in his pvp gear. I can show up wearing it and a hit trinket and do 25k dps for the group or I could put on all of his ilvl 365 pve gear and do 20k. Which would you prefer. Am I really being a "richard" by showing up in gear that allows me to do my role better than what I could have if I showed up in the approved gear. Wearing my pvp gear allows me to do my job better while collecting upgrades for his pve set.

I know it's kinda frustrating that as a tank you can't fake your ilvl and get away with it like heals and dps. But you get insta queues, and free mounts, pets, and potions.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2011 11:31am by xinaskin
#26 Dec 22 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
Yup, when Cata first came out and I was getting my druid through heroics as boomkin, I struggled to hit 8k dps. As I got geared up, and was in full 346 with the odd 359 rep epic, I was able to do about 12k I think. Gear definitely has a big impact, but rotation has something to do with it as well.
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#27 Dec 22 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:

Not expecting everyone to grind out for 3 months doing MF, but the very first day gives everyone a Ring, and Strength Plate-Wearers get Boots, Necklace and a Ring. Even Plate DPS; a reforged I-365 tank item is way better than that 318-333 junk you were wearing.


You got that backwards dude, it gives everyone a necklace. I don't know anything about a ring.

Edited, Dec 21st 2011 1:10pm by PigtailsOfDoom


Errr, whoops.

I knew it gave *something* to everyone, and Strength wearers get an additional item or something.
#28 Dec 22 2011 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, you guys are spoiled. Smiley: wink2
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#29 Dec 23 2011 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
Cape too, though you have to pick among your specs technically
#30 Dec 23 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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I got into a PUG last night and saw something that I didn't think was possible. We had a hunter doing 4k dps.

This was for the whole 5-man. (The one where you follow Thrall around and end in the Temple fighting the priest/monk guy.)

I didn't think you could do that even just keeping auto-shot on.
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#31 Dec 23 2011 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Maybe he turned it off periodically? =x
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#32 Dec 23 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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I see 3-4k dps every once in a while. Usually a noob with horrible gear (maybe not even for the right class or spec), terrible spec, and a lot of auto-hitting.
#33 Dec 23 2011 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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Add about one or two insults per suggestion and I think you'll be spot on.
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#34 Dec 23 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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~ 1. Gem/enchant/reforge your gear - If you "can't afford" the higher end gems (you cheap ^%@#!) As any other idiot could have figured out, you could get lower end gems temporarily to get something in there - EJ, many other forum threads, and guildmates can help you here... if you can read and understand them - which is doubtful.

~ 2. Learn the most recommended spec and rotation for your class and spec. EJ, many other forum threads, and guildmates can help you here. Noxxic is also another site that can help. Since you couldn't possibly understand the advanced vocabulary (words such as "global cd", "haste", and "red") this information does you no good whatsoever. And by the way, it's already 8:00AM and you're barely even drunk yet. Are you okay?

~ 3. Don't be *&%@#@#&%# stupid. Stop standing in that &^#$@(#@$^#* on the ground that is causing you to die. You may be standing in stuff you can't see clearly, but you are obviously taking damage - that is when your health bar goes down to nothing and you DIE, remember that? You ought to, it happens to you a lot. A real person with a brain would get something called an "addon" that is named "GTFO". And no, this is not about your mother and no one is asking you to leave.

~ 4. Anyone not so inbred would go pick up easy solo-obtainable upgrades that are just waiting for you to walk up to the NPCs and take them. This is stuff like Thrall's Cape, nice pieces of gear the first day of the Molton Front, dailies, etc. It's when you kill monsters and do other quest stuff like that and you get REWARDS of BETTER GEAR. You may have noticed that happening once or twice as you "lvled ur leet tune".

~ 5. DPS while important is secondary to group survival. If you lose dps to do some CC or other utility role that is perfectly right and proper. CC means you make the monster go to sleep or get frozen in a block of ice or stun them or something. You'll never be able to do this successfully, so don't worry about it.

~ 6. Don't expect to get healed. If you do it's a bonus, but the healer is there to keep the tank up and as many others as possible if they are his/her friends. If you take significant damage then you're probably doing something wrong. There's that @#$%^%^ health bar again. You see, if its starting to get small, you need to do something different fast or you will die. Again. As usual.

~ 7. L2Play nub, and doant merry yore cuznz no moar.

~ 8. ? this thingie means you have a question. Try it sometime. Someone might give you an answer, and then you might LEARN SOMETHING.

~ 9. Profit - this is what you would be making if you had a real job or brain or life.

~ 10. !@#($*^#!% you @#$^(#% nub!


#35 Dec 24 2011 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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If you're a dot (damage over time) class, feral cat druid, shadow priest, maybe warlock these days but I dunno, you may be doing nothing wrong. As mobs spend less time alive your "proper" spells may only have time to do a fraction of their damage. As people gear up more mobs die faster and this gets more pronounced. If this is the case just spam your aoe on trash and be useful on bosses (note: if boss dies in 30 seconds and you get called out on damage feel free to blame the overgeared folks for killing it too fast).

DO NOT take this as an excuse not to learn proper attack abilities, though, because sometimes trash lives long enough for that to be useful.
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#36 Dec 24 2011 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you're a DoT class and mobs die too fast you shouldn't use your DoTs on them.
I'm a shadowpriest and on lowHP mobs I use Mind Spike/Mind Blast.
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#37 Dec 24 2011 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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TherealLogros wrote:
If you're a DoT class and mobs die too fast you shouldn't use your DoTs on them.
I'm a shadowpriest and on lowHP mobs I use Mind Spike/Mind Blast.


Exactly. The point I was trying to make was that if you do the research for proper rotations for those classes it'll be a bunch of dots that can harm you when running with folks who overgear the instance and blow everything up.
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#38 Dec 24 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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As a warlock I'm not sure I even have the option. The instant cast dots don't do anything in the time it takes stuff to die and the nukes are all very long cast. It makes me almost like a hunter with no bow. I can Rain of Fire and Hellfire on packs but that isn't always popular

Low dps seems hard to escape except on bosses
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#39 Dec 26 2011 at 1:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Cobra101 wrote:
As a warlock I'm not sure I even have the option. The instant cast dots don't do anything in the time it takes stuff to die and the nukes are all very long cast. It makes me almost like a hunter with no bow. I can Rain of Fire and Hellfire on packs but that isn't always popular


Well there's always soulburn + searing pain. I hear that increases popularity immensely. Smiley: wink
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#40 Dec 28 2011 at 3:45 AM Rating: Good
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Shadowpriests need an entirely different gear set from their healing set. It is extremely similar to a mage set, requiring +17% hit, NO spirit, and LOTS of haste, etc, etc. It infuriates me that some PUGs don't understand that a priest is going to be in transition collecting two entire different gears sets just for PvE. What infuriates me worse is that many PUG players don't appreciate the truly hybrid nature of a shadowpriest, and take into account the constant automatic AOE healing, and the frequent auto-slow-on-mobs that they do, and judge them solely on their DPS. I was kicked from a heroic for "only" doing 11k DPS on average.

No appreciation that we were burning the trash faster and surviving better because I usually had one mob hitting the tank less often, and I was supporting the healer with constant aoe low level heals, without once pausing my DPS to hit a heal spell myself. No appreciation I was mostly in spirit/healing gear, and needed to gear up into mage gear, at which point my DPS would soar.

If you're going to look at a Shadowpriest add their healing stat onto their DPS stat to get a better idea of what they are contributing. And let them collect their DPS "mage" gear.
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#41 Dec 28 2011 at 4:01 AM Rating: Excellent
Actually Ari, Shadow priests DO benefit from spirit. We have a lovely talent in the second tier (forget what it's called off the top of my head) that converts any spirit on our gear to hit. Also, because shadow priests benefit from haste so much, we don't really need to get hit capped. Most of our spells are instant, and since we're a DoT class, one miss isn't going to be as big of a detriment to our DPS like it would be for say, an Arcane mage. It's still good to get as much hit as you can, just don't sacrifice haste or int for hit/spirit.
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#42 Dec 28 2011 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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I must respectfully point out that Haste makes your DOTs tick faster, meaning your entire damage rotation is over faster, meaning you can cast it again in a shorter time for the same amount of damage, that is, your DPS goes up. Secondly, faster ticking DOTS on trash means more of them will have time to go off. Even Mind Flay does the same amount of damage over a shorter discharge, meaning more DPS the more Haste you have.

As for hit capping, each small DOT happens many many times. So if you aren't in Tier 2, and have no +Hit, 17% of your (small!) Dots are going to miss... meaning you still lose 17% of your possible DPS. (Yes, your bigger spells are going to miss less often than a dot, but it will hurt more when they do. Again, by 17% DPS if you have no +hit one way or the other.)

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#43 Dec 28 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
Why would you not be in the second tier of the shadow tree? I'm not understanding.
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#44 Dec 28 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Oh right, it's been too long since I was on my priest regularly. My guild called it out of retirement because they wanted it for raids >.<

Ignore me on hit, I'm a doofus. I thought you meant Armour Tier, not Talent Tier.

The haste stuff still stands though. Smiley: tongue

Edited, Dec 28th 2011 11:50am by Aripyanfar
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#45 Dec 28 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Shadowpriests need an entirely different gear set from their healing set. It is extremely similar to a mage set, requiring +17% hit, NO spirit, and LOTS of haste, etc, etc. It infuriates me that some PUGs don't understand that a priest is going to be in transition collecting two entire different gears sets just for PvE. What infuriates me worse is that many PUG players don't appreciate the truly hybrid nature of a shadowpriest, and take into account the constant automatic AOE healing, and the frequent auto-slow-on-mobs that they do, and judge them solely on their DPS. I was kicked from a heroic for "only" doing 11k DPS on average.

No appreciation that we were burning the trash faster and surviving better because I usually had one mob hitting the tank less often, and I was supporting the healer with constant aoe low level heals, without once pausing my DPS to hit a heal spell myself. No appreciation I was mostly in spirit/healing gear, and needed to gear up into mage gear, at which point my DPS would soar.

If you're going to look at a Shadowpriest add their healing stat onto their DPS stat to get a better idea of what they are contributing. And let them collect their DPS "mage" gear.


The 17% spell hit is only for raid bosses. I think it's 8% for heroics, although the spirit => hit talent should have you well over the hit-cap. The shadow priest "slow" is actually a snare, so it's only value for mitigating damage is by keeping a melee mob out of melee range. The problem with that is, the tank is going to run up to melee range of the mob anyway, or death-drip it. That's what tanks need to do to to build threat.
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#46 Dec 28 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
I must respectfully point out that Haste makes your DOTs tick faster, meaning your entire damage rotation is over faster, meaning you can cast it again in a shorter time for the same amount of damage, that is, your DPS goes up. Secondly, faster ticking DOTS on trash means more of them will have time to go off. Even Mind Flay does the same amount of damage over a shorter discharge, meaning more DPS the more Haste you have.

As for hit capping, each small DOT happens many many times. So if you aren't in Tier 2, and have no +Hit, 17% of your (small!) Dots are going to miss... meaning you still lose 17% of your possible DPS. (Yes, your bigger spells are going to miss less often than a dot, but it will hurt more when they do. Again, by 17% DPS if you have no +hit one way or the other.)


Tail's point with haste vs hit is that, since individual spells are almost exclusively DoTs, missing with any individual cast only costs you 1 tick of that DoT. Extra haste will get you more ticks on the DoTs that do hit, so in some(most/all) cases, haste is more valuable.
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#47 Dec 28 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
AstarintheDruid wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
I must respectfully point out that Haste makes your DOTs tick faster, meaning your entire damage rotation is over faster, meaning you can cast it again in a shorter time for the same amount of damage, that is, your DPS goes up. Secondly, faster ticking DOTS on trash means more of them will have time to go off. Even Mind Flay does the same amount of damage over a shorter discharge, meaning more DPS the more Haste you have.

As for hit capping, each small DOT happens many many times. So if you aren't in Tier 2, and have no +Hit, 17% of your (small!) Dots are going to miss... meaning you still lose 17% of your possible DPS. (Yes, your bigger spells are going to miss less often than a dot, but it will hurt more when they do. Again, by 17% DPS if you have no +hit one way or the other.)


Tail's point with haste vs hit is that, since individual spells are almost exclusively DoTs, missing with any individual cast only costs you 1 tick of that DoT. Extra haste will get you more ticks on the DoTs that do hit, so in some(most/all) cases, haste is more valuable.


Yup. The way DoTs work with hit, is that only the initial cast can miss. Subsequent ticks do not miss if you aren't hit capped. That's another reason why hit is less valued for shadow priests. Also, I wasn't saying that you should have NO hit. Obviously you want some! I've found for me personally, that about 15.3% hit is a good place to be for raiding. I rarely miss with that much hit. Results may vary for each individual user and their preference though. Smiley: wink2 And the hit cap for heroics is 6% for casters. 8% is the hit for melee folks.

Also, Ari I'm not sure what brought on your comment about Haste. You're absolutely correct of course, but I never said anything bad about haste. Haste is a shadow priest's bread and butter, we want as much of it as we can get!

Edited, Dec 28th 2011 2:43pm by PigtailsOfDoom
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#48 Dec 28 2011 at 6:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
I must respectfully point out that Haste makes your DOTs tick faster, meaning your entire damage rotation is over faster, meaning you can cast it again in a shorter time for the same amount of damage

I just noticed this reading Tails' post. DoTs were changed a while back to keep the duration mostly the same, and get extra ticks from extra haste. As an example, Shadow Word: Pain ticks every 3 seconds and lasts 18 seconds, for a total of 6 ticks. Haste reduced the time between ticks, and the total duration of the DoT up to when you can fit in 1/2 of an extra tick (around 8% spell haste I think), then you get an extra tick and the total duration goes up to around 19.3 seconds. The next break point is, if I remember how haste works off-hand, at 25% haste.
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