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Race change questions.(opinions are welcome) & profession ?sFollow

#1 Jan 17 2011 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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Let me first say that I do not raid, so saying one race is better when raiding won't help me.

I am thinking about switching around some of my races (I will not be faction changing), and I have a question about a certain race change and then I will list what race/class combinations I have now and ask for your opinions.

I am trying to get a good diverse selection of races on my Horde server, so you may give me input on races for classes that would benefit from changing its race.

My first question is an easy one, but I can't seem to find a concrete answer to it, and Blizzard's Race Change FAQ mount section doesn't include Goblins yet...

I have a Orc Hunter and I was wanting to make him into a Goblin... purely for aesthetic reasons, but as of right now my hunter has no Bligewater rep, but is exalted with Orgrimmar. Without grinding Orgrimmar rep via the heroic dungeon tabard system, is there another way to acquire the Orc wolf mounts? Can I buy them BEFORE the race change and use them afterwards? I read on the race change FAQ that race changing only affects the first three racial mounts and then the ones past the first three will be unchanged... how many mounts do Goblins have? And if I buy all of the Orgrimmar wolves pre-change will I keep any after the change?

I believe the Goblin's racials are just a little bit better than the Orc's EXCEPT Orcs have a 5% pet damage increase.

Here is my race/class combo, and if I am thinking about a race change I will note it somehow. The ones marked with four *s are the ones I am thinking about the most. The three that have two *s are the ones I am on the fence about. I can only afford to do maybe three race changes at this time, so If I do the Druid and Hunter ... I can only do one other.

****80 Tauren Druid (alchy/herb) - I would like a Troll Druid... mainly because I like how they look.
80 Undead Warlock (tailor/enchant) - no change
****85 Orc Hunter (JC/miner) - I would like to change him to a Goblin. I think he would look better with "huge" pets.
**80 Tauren Warrior (BS/miner) - no change now... maybe in the future to Troll or Goblin.
80 Troll Mage (non-specced engineer/miner) - No change, I like him the way he is.
**80 Tauren Shaman (skinner/LW) - I would like to make him a Goblin too, because I am kinda sick of Taurens.
70 Undead Priest (miner/herb) - Meh, she is fine.
**72 Blood Elf Paladin (miner/skinner) - I would like to change her race, but If I did that I would be stuck with a Tauren again and no BE in my lineup. Honestly I don't really care for the look of either Horde Paladin race, but I like the Tauren Paladin mount more.
85 Orc Deathknight (Inscrip/herb) - I like him as an Orc.
32 Goblin Rogue (miner/herb)- I like him as a Goblin.

I have been thinking about switching my hunter to miner/herb (or miner/engineer...or miner/skinner), because with him being a JC it hasn't really helped me at all. Sure I can make my own gems, but getting the gems to make them is demanding. Opinions?

I have one engineer that isn't specced into Gnomish or Goblin engineering, so I would like to have another engineer to go into the opposite spec... mainly for the pets you can make in each spec. Opinions?

I could then technically make my priest a miner/JCing or a herb/JC... or leave her alone at miner/herb... Opinions?

With so many alts I am usually poor (not from the AH, but from buying flying training and stuff) and having multiple gathering professions isn't a bad thing, but I think I may be going overboard... Opinions?

Should I think about moving a profession to someone else? Should I think about putting engineering on another character too? What about JCing? Opinions?

My BIG reason starting this thread was the race change mount question and opinions on my race/class lineup, but any help with professions is a big plus.

Thanks a bunch.

#2 Jan 17 2011 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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Female Orc, LW/JC. It's the only viable option.
Orcs have a 100 dps advantage over the next best race (worgen iirc) and 2-300 over pretty much every other race in pre raid blue gear.
LW/JC because you already have JC and LW gives agility too and agility is king, queen and god.

As far as I am aware when you change from orc to goblin (read above, don't do it) everything orc you have now becomes goblin and vice versa.

Also, I'd go with goblin or troll for the shaman but keep the rest as they are.
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#3 Jan 17 2011 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Female Orc, LW/JC. It's the only viable option.
Orcs have a 100 dps advantage over the next best race (worgen iirc) and 2-300 over pretty much every other race in pre raid blue gear.
LW/JC because you already have JC and LW gives agility too and agility is king, queen and god.

As far as I am aware when you change from orc to goblin (read above, don't do it) everything orc you have now becomes goblin and vice versa.

Also, I'd go with goblin or troll for the shaman but keep the rest as they are.


Yeah, that is good advice, but I don't raid. I also don't really group that much with my hunter unless it is guild runs, and they don't care how much I suck.

That is the reason I said, "Let me first say that I do not raid, so saying one race is better when raiding won't help me."

I normally just run dailies, quest, and do random ramblings around not doing much of anything on my hunter unless I am camping a new pet.

#4 Jan 17 2011 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
As far as I am aware when you change from orc to goblin (read above, don't do it) everything orc you have now becomes goblin and vice versa.


Oops, I also forgot to comment on this... how many Goblin "mounts" are there? Two? Fast and slow?

I am trying to figure out if I go out and buy all of the Orgrimmar wolves pre-race change if I will get screwed and get all them taken away (or not be able to mount them) once I change over to Goblin.

#5 Jan 17 2011 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
There are only 2 Goblin trikes, one for 60% and one for 100%. I'm pretty sure if you switch from Orc to Goblin your Orgimmar rep shouldn't be affected, I don't really see why rep would be affected at all just by changing race.

You can still get orgimmar rep doing orc quests, I believe the cooking/fishing daily gives org rep, also some of the starter quests in Vashj'ir, pretty much any quest you get from an orc gives you orgimmar rep.

As to answer your question about race changing. Since you're not raiding and barely group it's pretty much just whatever you want. If your not doing it to raid/party/rp then it really doesn't matter what race you are just whatever you want to be.

For the professions, it's kind of the same thing, whatever you want to be that might be something you don't already have, gathering professions are good for farming or supplying mats to your other stuff, but I would think twice about giving up jc that easily, it's really expensive to level back up if you choose to do so on another character.
#6 Jan 17 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Good
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Hyolith, I believe he's worried that his multiple Orgrimmar wolves will get deleted since, when you race-change, your race's mounts are replaced with the race you're changing to. For instance, when I changed my Tauren to Troll, my kodo (-s? plural?) were changed to raptors.

Funny enough, when I race changed from Night Elf to Tauren, my slow mount got turned into a skeletal horsie.

It's a good question, though. Since Goblins only have two types of mounts, whereas Orcs have three or four, what will happen to those different mounts? Smiley: confused
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#7 Jan 17 2011 at 8:13 PM Rating: Good
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I had all of the professions maxxed in WoLK except for engineering. JC was one of the handiest.
#8 Jan 17 2011 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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Labiarinth wrote:
I had all of the professions maxxed in WoLK except for engineering. JC was one of the handiest.


I am actually reconsidering dropping JCing... but I haven't decided if I am going to leave my hunter's professions alone or keep JC and get Engineering too... (which would mean dropping mining... =/ )

Dropping mining on my main mining toon could be very detrimental.

In the end the professions might stay the same, but I am worried about the extra wolves going away... so I have yet to do a race change.
#9 Jan 17 2011 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
If you want to save gold on stuff, Goblin is the way to go. Their racial is pretty neat like that. We have a few in our guild and had one buy the 7th Guild tab, as it was 500g or so cheaper for him.
I thought about race changing my Orc DK to a goblin just for fun (as I picked Orc over Troll back in LK for the pet Racial from Orcs..however I play Frost and don't summon a ghoul all that often).
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#10 Jan 18 2011 at 3:43 AM Rating: Decent
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PentUpAnger wrote:
Yeah, that is good advice, but I don't raid. I also don't really group that much with my hunter unless it is guild runs, and they don't care how much I suck.
Yeah, no offense but Hunters do dps and nothing else, if you don't care about dps the only thing left is what you like looking at so why the **** do you ask for help then?
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#11 Jan 18 2011 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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test

Edit: Wow work posting has been enabled :D

Maybe it would help if you buy the racial orc mounts and don't learn them? Keep them in your bags as you race change. Has anyone tried that?

Edited, Jan 18th 2011 2:40pm by samperor
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#12 Jan 18 2011 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
PentUpAnger wrote:
Yeah, that is good advice, but I don't raid. I also don't really group that much with my hunter unless it is guild runs, and they don't care how much I suck.
Yeah, no offense but Hunters do dps and nothing else, if you don't care about dps the only thing left is what you like looking at so why the @#%^ do you ask for help then?


Oh, you are so clever!

I care about DPS, but I do not care about +/- 500dps (random number) at any given time. It isn't my fault that you totally look at everything from a DPS point of view. Some people actually enjoy raiding, and other people do not care how much DPS they do as long as they enjoy playing.... also, if you know how to play your class then no one will ever get mad at you over what race you picked.

My "questions" were about the mount situation and the professions...

Me asking others what they thought were good choices for race changes (I even said, "purely for aesthetic reasons") and what order to get them in was more along the lines of me asking other people for their opinions, and since I clearly stated that I do not raid and saying one race is better over another for raiding purposes wouldn't help me decide I figured most people wouldn't bring DPS up in the thread to the extent that you did. I could say l2read, but I am trying to be nice.

What you did was basically give me legal advice on what car I should purchase when I asked what color of car I should get... these forums are here to ask questions and get opinions... am I right or not?

If you do not agree with my way of asking about things... and can't NOT say something about how much I will suck if I choose one race over another... then please don't reply.

That was me being nice.
#13 Jan 18 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I never said anyone sucks because they chose a different race or want to be a different race than what is considered optimal, I also never mentioned raiding nor getting mad at anyone for picking a different race. You made that up.

I gave you info on dps because that is the only relevant info I can give you. Hunters are a dps class so dps is important, not just in raids but everywhere. If you're really only interested in aesthetics, my question remains, why the **** do you ask for help? Can't you decide for yourself what you enjoy looking at the most? Visual preference is personal so there's really nothing useful that anyone can say about it, especially since you seem to have all races leveled up far enough to know about their casting/attacking animations and if there's small stuff you (dis)like about the race.
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#14 Jan 18 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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I have a BE Hunter named Stewpid. His foxy pet is named Snuggles.

He does 2k DPS in Cataclysm gear.

It seemed like an obvious choice.
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#15 Jan 18 2011 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I never said anyone sucks because they chose a different race or want to be a different race than what is considered optimal, I also never mentioned raiding nor getting mad at anyone for picking a different race. You made that up.

I gave you info on dps because that is the only relevant info I can give you. Hunters are a dps class so dps is important, not just in raids but everywhere. If you're really only interested in aesthetics, my question remains, why the @#%^ do you ask for help? Can't you decide for yourself what you enjoy looking at the most? Visual preference is personal so there's really nothing useful that anyone can say about it, especially since you seem to have all races leveled up far enough to know about their casting/attacking animations and if there's small stuff you (dis)like about the race.


I also didn't say YOU said those things did I? It wasn't even implied. I quoted your previous post because you were talking about DPS in it, and then I talked about the other items mentioned in what you just quoted AFTER I talked about opinions, so if you thought I was implying that you said those things, I apologize.

When I said, "If you do not agree with my way of asking about things... and can't NOT say something about how much I will suck if I choose one race over another... then please don't reply." I was talking to anyone who was wanting to comment on the thread, and letting them know I do not care if one race is better than the other DPS-wise, because it doesn't matter to me.

And for you to keep asking me over and over, "...why the @#%^ do you ask for help?" is just painful when I have said at least twice that I am looking for other people's opinions... I don't have to agree with them, but seeing other people's point of views may change my mind on selecting which race change to do now or even at a later date...

Case(s) in point... I put down that I was thinking about changing my BE Paladin to a Tauren which would leave me BE-less on the server, AND I would have another Tauren... I had enough of other people's opinions told to me about it that I have decided to hold off on it, and I might not even do it. I have also had other people tell me their opinions on why I shouldn't drop JC from my hunter even though I don't use it... and that has changed my mind.

Aethien, I apologize if I mistook your opinion as you jumping onto me about choosing a Goblin hunter over an Orc hunter, but the way I read it it seemed to me that you were telling me I shouldn't do it because of the DPS loss... after I had said I didn't care about "raiding" which I thought would come across as saying "I don't care about a loss of DPS, and neither does my guild" but I guess it didn't. Again, I apologize.





Edited, Jan 18th 2011 11:40am by PentUpAnger
#16 Jan 18 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Excellent
I have to agree with Aeth though, it's really hard to help someone with a question where the answer is completely subjective. Since you don't seem to be looking for raid/dps, nor rp, that really only leaves aesthetics which is completely subjective to the person responding.
#17 Jan 18 2011 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Heh.

This is actually pretty funny, because evidently the internet and forums have made some people scared to express their opinions...

And then there are some people who have been brought up thinking that only their opinions matter.

I am neither.

This forum is a gathering place for people... and therefore I want to know what other people choosed to be their races (and if the race changed), and if they tell me why afterwards then that is fine too.
#18 Jan 18 2011 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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To whoever rated my previous post down:

Stewpid @ Kazzak (EU)

And he does 2k DPS because I fail at the new Hunter focus thing.

So **** off.
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#19 Jan 18 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
And there are probably 3 answers you are going to get:

1. Because it provides the best dps compared to other races.
2. Because it looks cool.
3. Because it fits into my RP role.

There really isn't much more to it.

Why did I pick a Troll as my Hunter? Frankly because trolls look cool (1), they also provide some useful racials for increasing dps (2). I would like to change my troll to goblin, why? because goblins look pretty bad *** (1). But I really don't want to spend the money to do so.
#20 Jan 18 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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PentUpAnger wrote:
Aethien, I apologize if I mistook your opinion as you jumping onto me about choosing a Goblin hunter over an Orc hunter, but the way I read it it seemed to me that you were telling me I shouldn't do it because of the DPS loss...
I said it because I have a female orc hunter with JC and LW, which I think is pretty common knowledge in the hunter forums and since that's where you posted the thread, that's what I replied.

Hyolith go for Female Orc, better dps and better looks.

Maz, also go for female orc, instant dps and awesome boost.
Also, what spec are you? Focus stuff is pretty simple once you get the hang of it... actually, you play a freaking cat druid. Focus is like energy only you shoot cobra shot whenever you aren't doing anything else to replenish focus.
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#21 Jan 18 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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When I changed from Nelf to Worgen I lost none of my nelf mount. I am assuming this is because there were no Worgen mounts to switch to. So it stands to reason that you would only lose one fast and one slow wolf. As for the rep I was exalted with everyone EXCEPT Gilneas now I am exalted with Gilneas and not Darnassus. Hope that helps.
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#22 Jan 18 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Nonono, Aeth. Cat rotation is easy. Once you've got the debuffs running, you just need to make sure never to get energy capped. Easiest way is to spam something, anything, whenever you have the energy for it.

Focus is tricky, because you regen energy from time and Cobra/Steady Shots, and I'm not good at math, so I'm always at full or starved. Smiley: um
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#23 Jan 18 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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Assuming that your cobra shots are at 1.66 seconds cast time.

Explosive shot > 3x cobra > explosive > repeat.
When BA is off cooldown, BA + arcane + 2x cobra instead of 3x cobra.
When lock and load procs ExS > cobra > ExS > Arcane > ExS.
If, for some reason, you are still focus capped with this rotation, use 2 arcane shots instead of 1 cobra shot.

BM is even simpler, KC > 3x cobra > KC > repeat.
When you're high on focus, throw in 2 arcanes to replace 1 cobra or 3 arcanes to replace 2 cobras if you're really high on focus.
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#24 Jan 18 2011 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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When you use >, you're using it as an arrow, right? Not as a "Explosive Shot over Cobra Shot x 3 over Explosive Shot", because that wouldn't make sense. Here's my problem, though. I open up with Explosive Shot, hit Steady Shot three times (don't have Cobra yet), but now I'm all focus capped.

EJ says you should spend excess focus on Arcane Shots, but how do I weave in Arcane Shot in there?

I used to be a quite capable Hunter, but ever since Steady Shot and its cast time, I've never gotten the hang of it. It's even worse now that Steady/Cobra Shot is an integral part of any Hunter play. Can't even PvP without having to stand still and throw out stupid cast time shots.

Smiley: bah
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#25 Jan 18 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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> = next when I use it in a rotation, I could do -> too but I'm too lazy.

Start with Explosive > Black Arrow > Serpent > Steadyx2 > Explosive and then repeat ExS > Steadyx3.
Don't worry too much about focus capping, it's not as bad as it is for rogues or ferals.

As long as you shoot explosive and black arrow on cooldown and keep Serpent sting up any excess focus you dump into arcane is nice and a dps boost but not that much of an influence on your dps.
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#26 Jan 18 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Trolls shoot all gangster style with a crouched sideways lean. That looks pretty cool...
My hunter is a cow but think I'm going to switch over to Orc style(soon as I get my deskop a new hard drive.) Better dps and I won't look like I'm breaking my mounts back when I ride. I look stupid riding "Midnight" from Kara and many other mounts in my collection.

Professionally my hunter is currently LW/Skinner but think I'm dropping skinning for Engeniering as my DK is my farmer now (Mining/Skinning). With my druid on the JC/Enchanting I think I'll be pretty well rounded. If only I could figure out what second profession to pick for my Priest to compliment his Tailoring... Gah.

As far as looks go, it seems to me that certain races just seem more natural in certain classes. For example... Trolls just don't seem that priestly to me. Blood Elves and Undead yes. Troll Druids... I can see that...

In retrospect, Taurens don't seem the hunter nor the Palladin type either. Orcs seem more like natural Warriors or Hunters and less the cloth wearing sort.

Ah crap! I'm *************** hard drive...
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#27 Jan 18 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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If you go orc, go female orc for the sexiest females in WoW.
And I'd go for JC/LW/Enchanting/Alch or whichever other profession gives agility instead of engineering.
Engineering is cool but very expensive and not that useful for a hunter.
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#28 Jan 18 2011 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
If you go orc, go female orc for the sexiest females in WoW.
And I'd go for JC/LW/Enchanting/Alch or whichever other profession gives agility instead of engineering.
Engineering is cool but very expensive and not that useful for a hunter.


I do have questions about some professions... again...

I understand having JC because of the 3 gems (is it still 3?) that you can make for yourself and they will have higher stats than a normal cut... is there something I am missing for agility other than the ability to have 3 extra high stats gems for agility?

I understand having Enchanting mainly for the Enchant-Ring and the ability to DE stuff and sell on AH... I am guessing there is a agility ring enchant?

I haven't played my Alchemy character in a while, so I can't think of how you would get agility from that profession unless you make your own flasks... but isn't there an item you make that will increase strength, agility, and something else as an alchemist?

Lastly... leatherworking? I can understand skinning for the Anatomy thing, but what does LWing bring to the table? I haven't had a maxed LWer since TBC, so I have no clue.

My main reason for wanting engineering was so I could go into a different engineer spec than my other engineer and make vanity pets, PLUS the awesome head gear.

Thanks for the replies.
#29 Jan 18 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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JC = bonus agility from 3 gems.
Alch = bonus from flasks/elixirs.
LW = 130 agi bracer enchant.
Enchanting = agi ring enchants.
BS = 2 extra sockets for 2 agi gems.

And I'm not sure but I think inscription gives agility as well now.

Either way, if a profession gets you 80 agility (or more, of course) it's good, if not it sucks. Yeah, rather black & white but that's it really... 1 point of agility is almost three times as good as other stats in pretty much every case.

Edited, Jan 18th 2011 10:23pm by Aethien
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#30 Jan 18 2011 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Start with Explosive > Black Arrow > Serpent > Steadyx2 > Explosive and then repeat ExS > Steadyx3.
Don't worry too much about focus capping, it's not as bad as it is for rogues or ferals.

As long as you shoot explosive and black arrow on cooldown and keep Serpent sting up any excess focus you dump into arcane is nice and a dps boost but not that much of an influence on your dps.

Quoted for emphasis, especially the part about focus capping.

If you don't use a focus dump, you'll see a noticeable but minor loss of dps. But you'll also guarantee that you're never focus-starved - which, among other things, means that you'll always have all your utility talents ready within a single GCD.

Personally, I don't worry too much about the things that separate good from great or great from elite until I've got the "good" down cold. Focus dumps are one of those things.
#31 Jan 18 2011 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
There is rarely a time in SV that you need to focus dump. I've only really come across 2 situations; rapid fire, and BL. Those provide excellent focus regen plus the 1.0 sec cobra's, you're popping them off like crazy.
#32 Jan 18 2011 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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It helped getting Cobra Shot. Does about double the damage of Steady Shot, it's crazy.

And I think getting a chest piece also helped a bit. Smiley: lol
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#33 Jan 18 2011 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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Interesting hunter discussion . .wait, what was the question? Oh yeah.

Unless they have changed things a lot since my last swath of transfers it should work like so:
-You have 3 Org wolf mounts & exalted Org rep.
-You change to Goblin.
-You now have a Goblin with 3 Org wolf mounts & exalted Org rep.
(You would be be able to purchase Goblin trikes now because you are Goblin regardless of rep.)

Race changing in-faction doesn't change mounts and reps you already have.

Now, were you to transfer to Worgen instead you would end up with 3 of some other mount in place of your 3 wolves (Elekk or Ram maybe . .they have a chart somewhere which explains the cross-server transfer replacements) and exalted rep with . .I think Ironforge (again, there's a chart.)

On another note, my recently created horde hunter is undead. Reasons? I've never had and undead toon, I like the /dance, and having leveled my Dranaei to 83 I thought the cannibalize thing would come in handy for keeping me moving along. Plus, I wanted an undead because I do think they're cool but I never liked the way they looked in robes or plate. For some reason, I don't care so much with the hunter looking all disheveled. *shrug*

(If I ever made a horde hunter to actually do serious stuff with, it would be . .a female orc.)
#34 Jan 18 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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Pantherfern wrote:
Race changing in-faction doesn't change mounts and reps you already have.


Not entirely true with regards to mounts.

Going from a Tauren to a Troll Druid, I lost my kodo mounts and gained raptors.
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#35 Jan 18 2011 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Assuming that your cobra shots are at 1.66 seconds cast time.

Explosive shot > 3x cobra > explosive > repeat.
When BA is off cooldown, BA + arcane + 2x cobra instead of 3x cobra.
When lock and load procs ExS > cobra > ExS > Arcane > ExS.
If, for some reason, you are still focus capped with this rotation, use 2 arcane shots instead of 1 cobra shot.

BM is even simpler, KC > 3x cobra > KC > repeat.
When you're high on focus, throw in 2 arcanes to replace 1 cobra or 3 arcanes to replace 2 cobras if you're really high on focus.


I have never played SV, so bare (? bare? bear? wtvr) with me please...

Explosive Shot (ExS)
Black Arrow (BA)
Cobra Shot (CS) (focus regain)
Arcane Shot (AS) (focus dump)
Serpent Sting (SS)
Lock and Load (L&L)
Kill Command (KC) (BM only)
Cooldown (CD)

The bolded numbers will be used in a rotation at the bottom instead of typing out the whole rotation over again)

I understand the (#1) ExS > 3x CS > ExS > repeat (I am guessing you mean to use 3x CS again and just keep doing the same rotation over and over... until BA is off of cooldown)

...then when BA is off of cooldown(CD) you do: (#2) BA > AS > 2x CS

... then when/if L&L procs you said: (#3) ExS > CS > ExS > AS > ExS(Do you need to have an enemy break a Frost/Ice Trap in order to get L&L to proc for two free ExS/***, or do you just watch for L&L to proc during an ExS?)

Do you normally start out a fight with SS or BA?

(#1) ExS > 3x CS > ExS > repeat
(#2) BA > AS > 2x CS
(#3) ExS > CS > ExS > AS > ExS

Here is a hypothetical long fight rotation and just by looking at what you typed how I would go about it... (please correct me if I do something out of place):
(#2) then (#1) and if L&L procs you go into (#3) then back to (#1) til BA is off CD then go back to the start starting with (#2) again.... right?


Edited, Jan 18th 2011 7:17pm by PentUpAnger
#36 Jan 18 2011 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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Seems like getting Cobra Shot and not having to worry about Serpent Sting falling off again once applied helped a great deal. I ran a random LK Heroic and did 7-8k DPS on boss fights.

Also, rotation seems easier now than before, so thanks. I guess I was spamming Arcane Shot whenever I had excess focus, which would starve me for the Explosive Shots.

Either that, or gaining one level increased overall DPS so much it's ridiculous.
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#37 Jan 19 2011 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
PentUpAnger wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Assuming that your cobra shots are at 1.66 seconds cast time.

Explosive shot > 3x cobra > explosive > repeat.
When BA is off cooldown, BA + arcane + 2x cobra instead of 3x cobra.
When lock and load procs ExS > cobra > ExS > Arcane > ExS.
If, for some reason, you are still focus capped with this rotation, use 2 arcane shots instead of 1 cobra shot.

BM is even simpler, KC > 3x cobra > KC > repeat.
When you're high on focus, throw in 2 arcanes to replace 1 cobra or 3 arcanes to replace 2 cobras if you're really high on focus.


I have never played SV, so bare (? bare? bear? wtvr) with me please...

Explosive Shot (ExS)
Black Arrow (BA)
Cobra Shot (CS) (focus regain)
Arcane Shot (AS) (focus dump)
Serpent Sting (SS)
Lock and Load (L&L)
Kill Command (KC) (BM only)
Cooldown (CD)

The bolded numbers will be used in a rotation at the bottom instead of typing out the whole rotation over again)

I understand the (#1) ExS > 3x CS > ExS > repeat (I am guessing you mean to use 3x CS again and just keep doing the same rotation over and over... until BA is off of cooldown)

...then when BA is off of cooldown(CD) you do: (#2) BA > AS > 2x CS

... then when/if L&L procs you said: (#3) ExS > CS > ExS > AS > ExS(Do you need to have an enemy break a Frost/Ice Trap in order to get L&L to proc for two free ExS/***, or do you just watch for L&L to proc during an ExS?)

Do you normally start out a fight with SS or BA?

(#1) ExS > 3x CS > ExS > repeat
(#2) BA > AS > 2x CS
(#3) ExS > CS > ExS > AS > ExS

Here is a hypothetical long fight rotation and just by looking at what you typed how I would go about it... (please correct me if I do something out of place):
(#2) then (#1) and if L&L procs you go into (#3) then back to (#1) til BA is off CD then go back to the start starting with (#2) again.... right?


Edited, Jan 18th 2011 7:17pm by PentUpAnger


Right now, it is a dps loss to try and force proc LnL. In 4.0.6 the way it stands is that Explosive Trap will essentially do more damage than BA, but with movement fights you will still want to use BA since you'll get it's full effect.

For starting the fight Aeth always says start with Explosive since you want to keep it on cd. I tend to start SS -> Explosive -> BA -> 2x Cobra, then Explosive is off cooldown and I can do the 3x Cobra until BA is off cooldown. While it may not be the top dps it's just what I've been doing forever now so I always tend to just apply SS and get it over with.

#38 Jan 19 2011 at 2:32 AM Rating: Good
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PentUpAnger wrote:
(#1) ExS > 3x CS > ExS > repeat
(#2) BA > AS > 2x CS
(#3) ExS > CS > ExS > AS > ExS

Here is a hypothetical long fight rotation and just by looking at what you typed how I would go about it... (please correct me if I do something out of place):
(#2) then (#1) and if L&L procs you go into (#3) then back to (#1) til BA is off CD then go back to the start starting with (#2) again.... right?

#1 is basically your entire rotation, explosive shots on cooldown with 3 cobra shots in between. When Black Arrow is off cooldown you replace the one of those 3 cobra shots by a black arrow and an arcane shot.
You replace one cobrashot by 2 instant shots because it's better to shoot one arcane shot and delay ExS by 0.34 seconds than to spend 0.66 seconds doing nothing.

Hyolith, Hero Among Heroes wrote:
For starting the fight Aeth always says start with Explosive since you want to keep it on cd. I tend to start SS -> Explosive -> BA -> 2x Cobra, then Explosive is off cooldown and I can do the 3x Cobra until BA is off cooldown. While it may not be the top dps it's just what I've been doing forever now so I always tend to just apply SS and get it over with.
I start with ExS > BA > SrS > CoS > CoS > ExS etc.
Starting with SrS is kind of a waste because it's not that important and you start off by delaying your first ExS and BA by 1 second.
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#39 Jan 19 2011 at 3:49 AM Rating: Good
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Personally I found the transition between pre-401 Survival hunter and post-401 Survival hunter to be almost identical - at 80, Survival was focus starved, but Cobra Shot fixes that problem. Once you get used to the priorities, you might want to have Arcane Shot on a button somewhere to use when you're focus rich on a single target.

As for the OP's topic, I've been debating race changes on my two main toons for similar reasons - the racial benefits are negligible since I don't raid or PvP at the top end. My mains are a NE druid and Draenei huntress. Three others I've considered are a human warrior, BE pally and a NE rogue. The rogue I re-rolled because that class I historically struggled to level with (I found rogues to be far squishier than a mage several years ago) and decided that if I'm going to learn the class, I might as well start at level 1 with it. I'm nearly level 30 with the rogue; the original was 64 (boosted to 60 with RAF) and used only occasionally as a bank alt. So far I am satisfied with leveling the character, both with the improvements to leveling the class and with my rogue as a worgen. Through this character, I have checked a few things off my list in regards to changing my warrior and hunter. As for the pally, the decision was made when the new race was announced. The limiting factor for me is that I don't plan on playing the character much, making it a low priority for me. Re-rolling the character is a likelihood provided that I keep the existing one; she's 80 with 460 enchanting and 450 inscription with most of the glyphs and would give me the excuse of getting Loremaster of Azeroth on a horde character.
I've decided that if I'm going to spend the money to race change (since deleting any character 75 or higher with two 450 or higher crafting professions with many rare and valuable patterns isn't an option in my book), I need to like the little things about the race. One thing I don't like about the worgen are the casting animations. I feel most of them are too... unnecessary. The lady worgen animation for the hearthstone cast isn't bad though. This rules out me having a worgen mage, priest, warlock and potentially druid. I did decide, however, that if I am going to have a worgen druid, I would look past my dislike of the casting animations if I liked everything else about them.
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