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There's no incentive to help lower levelsFollow

#1 Dec 11 2006 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
I am a level 38 mage and in a guild. I regularly suspend my own grinding/questing to help lower level guildies that request assistance with their quests. I really don't mind doing it, and getting to level 60 is not as important to me as enjoying what the game has to offer.

The only problem with this is that I receive zero for helping. What would be the harm in Blizzard incorporating some sort of honor reward, even a small one, for doing this? Last week, I spent an entire night helping a lower level guildie complete a 4-step class-specific quest.
#2 Dec 11 2006 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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Well its a good idea and all, but how would someone distinguish helping others to helping pad your wallet.

Since people run these lower instances all the time just to get items to sell or disenchant, there really is no way of distinguishing the two. I dont forsee this ever happening.
#3 Dec 11 2006 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Before I got into the raid focused guild I am in now I would aften see lower level's begging for hand holding help on quests that were red to them.

One thing I think people really need to learn is just because you accept a quest does not mean you are ready to complete that quest.

Gain a couple levels then you can easily solo it. Of course I am a rogue main so I am spoiled on my ability to solo many quests other classes could not.

On my 20 Mage Alt I will admit I had a 60 WAR freind of mine run me through deadmines this weekend. It was fast fun and their were no noobie pugs to deal with.

The pay off for him is that I am going to run his druid alt thru it on my 60.

To much hand holding for lowbies who on their first job is a bad thing though IMO. They need to learn how to be patient and get things done on their own the first time.

As for an honor reward ts not a bad idea per say but I cant really see that ever being implemented.

#4 Dec 11 2006 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
The incentive is to have fun, and break up the monotony of things.

I just make sure I dont over do it, as none of this stuff is going to help build your toon.

Edited, Dec 11th 2006 5:02pm by adoniafive
#5 Dec 11 2006 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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While I agree it does suck to spend a day helping a lower level and getting nothing for it, I don't see how a solution is viable.

Say you got +honor for helping, or even +faction rep. How quickly would people buddy up with a friend, one creates a new char and the other has his level 40 escort him through every quest possible. Then they switch off. When the quests aren't a breeze, they create new alts and rinse/repeat to Exalted with whatever faction or the max honor needed to buy new toys from battlemasters.

I'd love to get some reward for the help I give, but in the end it'd be exploited quickly.
#6 Dec 11 2006 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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I help people out because I enjoy doing it.

Sure, it would be nice to accumulate brownie points for doing good deeds but it's not likely to happen and could easily be abused if they did have such a system anyways.



I do agree with Master Shogen that too much 'hand-holding' is not usually a good thing. I won't go help someone kill their ten boars or whatever but I'm usually willing to lend a hand on some of the more difficult quests to solo at the 'right' level.
#7 Dec 11 2006 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately, providing an incentive for helping lower level players will only create an environment of dependency for new players.

If you're new to WoW, how do you expect to get better if you're walked through all of your instances/difficult quests? You'd end up with a bunch of level 60 players who don't know how to handle themselves in end-game instances.
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#8 Dec 11 2006 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with Morghast, I help just because I like to and am not looking for anything in return. I also agree that lower level players should not just have everything handed to them, that would be doing them a disservice. Aside from the enjoyment of helping others, my reward has been watching the newer players develop, that I helped, and now those players are helping others. It is like watching a family grow and mature.
#9 Dec 11 2006 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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Doing good deeds is its own reward. I don't see how they could implement something that would not be ripe for abuse. I also think that most of the lower level stuff is there so that players can learn how to play the game. Having someone help me out on what should be a hard quest cheapens the rewards and teaches nothing.

I usually don't get annoyed by other player's behavior, but I really dislike lowbies sending random tells asking if I could run them through Wailing Caverns and then getting prissy when I tell them no.
#10 Dec 11 2006 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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The mmorpg Silk Road** had a scheme where if you "adopted" a new player in one of the starting zones and helped to show them the ropes until they dinged maybe level 5 or so, you got some sort of points to turn in, as I recall. After that level, you could still show them a bit of the game, but gained no more points, just in case people abused the system... I didn't play the game long due to the ever-growing, horrendous lag, so what the points were traded for, I don't know, but I thought it was an elegant system. Maybe you could use the points to raise faction in WoW, or get a discount on items or something. I think it would fit in WoW quite neatly - nice for people who dislike PvP, like myself, but who would like to earn points for helping players rather than ganking them.

Anyway, even dismissing all that, I just LIKE helping newbies. I get such a buzz, especially when I meet an articulate, social player - and if they aren't articulate, I'm just as happy if they're social :) After playing various mmorpgs for many (too many?) years, I know brand-new players can just be a bit shy and bewildered, and that if I help a group of 3 or 4 with something, they may be that bit less shy and bewildered. Then they may feel a bit more confident about grouping, which benefits us all.

I used to roam the lower level zones in EQ buffing the new players with my druid, or throwing Temps around with my cleric. I'd help out in Anarchy Online, Guild Wars, Eve Online, and I never once (ahhh, the rose-tinted spectacles of middle-age...) regretted it. In WoW, even though my highest character is only lvl 28, I drop in to help people in the lvl 10 to 20 zones, to help them out with that tricky quest they may be stuck with. They have a ball, I have a ball, and maybe they pay the favour forward when THEY get a bit higher...


** Doh! It was Knight Online, sorry, not Silk Road :( Must be MMORPG Fatigue, heh.

Edited, Dec 11th 2006 8:48pm by Krago
#11 Dec 11 2006 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
ahh..Silk Road. I get a lot of help from my friend. I just started and he's gave me some armor to start out with. We know each other in RL and I watch his back all the time. Also a MMORPG called Maplestory I gave him tons of stuff and I let him leech off of me. (In MS you got exp from any lvl) So we partied and I let him go AFK. Helping is a really nice thing to do and I do it all the time if I'm not busy. If they ask I just say no I'm kinda busy right now but if it's an alt of one my good guild friends or just my good buddy list friends; unless I'm doing an instance or something I'll be sure to be on a gryphon ASAP.
#12 Dec 11 2006 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
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True. I am not exactly very high level yet because I have changed mains to play with other people, but when a high level helps me, I really appreciate it. They take time off what they'd rather do to help me out and that means a lot. I really wish I could pay them back somehow, but all I usually have is a "Thank you". Though we can't always express or return what you've done for us, we really appreciate it.
#13 Dec 11 2006 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
Gatorbait wrote:
I am a level 38 mage and in a guild. I regularly suspend my own grinding/questing to help lower level guildies that request assistance with their quests. I really don't mind doing it, and getting to level 60 is not as important to me as enjoying what the game has to offer.

The only problem with this is that I receive zero for helping. What would be the harm in Blizzard incorporating some sort of honor reward, even a small one, for doing this? Last week, I spent an entire night helping a lower level guildie complete a 4-step class-specific quest.

Hmph. It's not up to Blizz. Your guild should reward you for helping lowbies. If it doesn't, then it's a ****-poor guild.
#14 Dec 11 2006 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Hmph. It's not up to Blizz. Your guild should reward you for helping lowbies. If it doesn't, then it's a ****-poor guild.

Or perhaps it is a guild that believe a good deed is its own reward? Or perhaps it is a guild that doesn't like to attatch monetary values to actions and instead likes members to pay it back in actions. Or perhaps it is a guild that has a "pay it forward" mindset.

All in all rewarding a good deed may seem like it imbues good behavior operant learning is not truly learning. A guild where people help others because they care is the strongest and closest of guilds.
#15 Dec 11 2006 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
Allegory wrote:
Quote:
Hmph. It's not up to Blizz. Your guild should reward you for helping lowbies. If it doesn't, then it's a ****-poor guild.

Or perhaps it is a guild that believe a good deed is its own reward? Or perhaps it is a guild that doesn't like to attatch monetary values to actions and instead likes members to pay it back in actions. Or perhaps it is a guild that has a "pay it forward" mindset.

All in all rewarding a good deed may seem like it imbues good behavior operant learning is not truly learning. A guild where people help others because they care is the strongest and closest of guilds.

There are other rewards than monetary. All my old guild gave was recognition (and special titles). It was reward enough, and greatly treasured. ...and that's what I meant, not monetary or item rewards.
#16 Dec 11 2006 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Hmph. It's not up to Blizz. Your guild should reward you for helping lowbies. If it doesn't, then it's a ****-poor guild.


Exactly. The guild should reward this if anything, not Blizzard. I had a guild that would give Greater Protection Potions based on the run throughs you do. Sure, you could easily farm the money or mats for like 10 in an hour, but this gave you some physical reward, and helped you get to know the lowbies.

Also, you can usually pick up the trash items ;-) This is especially lucrative now, I would imagine, since lowbies can't easily d/e!

As for me, I would run through my friends' alts from time to time. It was a lot of fun, though I risked getting killed a few times due to talking, not nuking things :-D It's a great way to get to know people even better!
#17 Dec 11 2006 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
I think that if you're willing to help a low leveled noob friend, then the gratification is reward enough. No one is forcing you, or even asking you to help him (besides him, of course), so why should you get rewarded for it? For me, my guildies all like me, and let me say, I do jack $hit to help them, seriously. In my 30's I helped a BIT, but I am a leveling monster (8 days played level 47). This is because...well...I don't know what the game has to offer. Building up my blacksmithing/mining doesn't interest me. PvP doesn't interest me since I'm a warrior. Helping guildies doesn't interest me, but leveling does, seriously. I get a kick out of leveling and beating my friends. My guildies just like me because I keep the game interesting. Let me tell you, and I'm not bragging here, a TON of my guildies would abandon raid runs or whatever if I wasn't there to make them laugh. I make them laugh/help over the convo channel = they like me and I've been promoted tons for basically typing crap into the word box. But I respond to EVERY question so I guess I might be doing SOMETHING.
#18 Dec 11 2006 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
On the subject of helping lowbies run instances, I hate my guild's lowbies for absolutely retarded requests of helping:

"like hey can someone run through ZF I need to get my Carrot on a Stick"
"you don't have a mount, you are only 38"
"but i need the experience"
"did you pick up all the other quests?"
"no"
"that dungeon takes a while, and none of us are near that area"
"i know its long you ****head, why do you think i am asking for help?"
"you are gonna aggro alot stuff in there and probably won't make it in some parts"
"omfg why do you think i am asking for help?"

Yeah, I ll pass on helping, at least have the decency to pick up all the quests and be a respectable level so helping in higher level dungeons isn't a total waste of time for the rest of us. I have no qualms about helping lowbies for no reward if I am in the area and/or if its reasonable, but asking for too much is being greedy or lazy on the part of the lowbie.

Edited, Dec 11th 2006 10:30pm by ElementHuman
#19 Dec 12 2006 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
In my guild we have a "no asking for boosts" rule, (boost = handholding, for those who aren't familiar with the term).
It is right next to the "no trading in Guildchat" and "no begging" rules.

I have run many guildies through RFD and SM on my rogue, but only after I saw them try to get a group and fail. And it was always my initiative, if they ask, they get turned down and told off for begging for boosts.

What's my reward? None, zero, zilch, and I don't expect one.
#20 Dec 12 2006 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
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My guild has a member that regularly schedules a "Lowbie Training Night" once a week to help people with quests/instances/etc. In addition to that, we have many members who willingly jump at the chance to help out when needed(I myself have been known to drop my money grinding to help with particularly vexing quests when I can or even occasionally just to pop into another town to open a portal).

We do have rules about repeated requests and spamming guild chat begging for help. Some people abuse the generosity of others and need to be taught better.

Now, I personally feel that, aside from a certain few quests, a player should damn learn for themselves how to do things in order to accomplish it or gather a group of similar leveled characters to pull off what they cannot alone. This is coming from someone who leveled to 60 as the highest level character in a guild of roughly 5 people and who did for myself what had to be done to accomplish my goals, often by tackling the quest several times to find a way to accomplish my aims or finding a group when desperation drove me to it.

I think the game might have a whole lot fewer retarded players if others were forced to reach 60 as I did.

Then again, they'd probably just choose the easy routes and avoid all the hard quests, never learning anything.
#21 Dec 12 2006 at 3:05 AM Rating: Good
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Boosts aren't really intnded in the game. Players should get somewhere by themselves and people of their own level. Boosting breaks this. So why should you get rewards for breaking the system?

It's not that I'm against boosting. I boost guildies, and guildies boost my alt. I just don't think there should be a reward for it from the game.
#22 Dec 12 2006 at 3:22 AM Rating: Good
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Why help others? Karma. ^_^

I spent 3 or 4 hours last night with a group in Hillsbrad when someone I'd grouped with a week or so earlier asked for help with one of the Battle of Hillsbrad quests. I'd already done it, but the guy'd helped me out with a tricky quest earlier, so I head over to Hillsbrad Fields. He's got a couple of his guildies with him, and we kill those guys in the town hall (the Clerk and Magister).

We end up raiding the Azureload Mine 3 times for various party members, going back to Fields twice more (he'd forgotten to get the Charter, then someone who joined later needed to kill the Magister still), raiding the yeti cave, running to Dun'Garok (although we didn't finish the elite Battle of Hillsbrad quest), and just generally running roughshod over everything in our paths. Warrior, 2 mages, a warlock and a hunter= dead everything. :D

I received very little XP, only a couple stacks of wool and leather, and a couple low-lvl greens that I promptly sent to my AH drone. Why'd I do it? Sheer enjoyment. I rediscovered the reason I liked FFXI: the companionship, and the beauty and joy that is a good party in action. I added a couple new people to my friends list, and hopefully got added to a couple peoples. I was playing until 4am, and didn't even realize it until I happened to glance at the Titan panel clock. Time truly flies when you're having fun... :)

ohmikeghod wrote:
There are other rewards than monetary. All my old guild gave was recognition (and special titles). It was reward enough, and greatly treasured. ...and that's what I meant, not monetary or item rewards.

I've rarely disagreed with you, Mike, but I have to disagree with ya now. Getting recognition or a nifty title should NOT be expected. I don't feel that's any better than saying, "I'll run you through WC for 1g each." You're still expecting something for your assistance. If you want to help someone out, do it for the sake of being a good person. If you get a nice little brass plaque for your office wall, so be it, but that shouldn't be the reason you're aiding others in the first place.

Flip side is, of course, people shouldn't expect help with everything. Most of the game is soloable. And as mentioned by many people before, hand-holding is ultimately harmful... "Teach a man to fish..." and all that, ya know? :)

Edited, Dec 12th 2006 3:29am by Rykhorne
#23 Dec 12 2006 at 4:55 AM Rating: Good
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I feel that running lower level players through instances hurts the game for THEM. As others have said in this post, you learn to play your character in instances. That's just where you learn the game for the most part (or on the PvP field hehe). I only run lower levels through instances if they are guildies (or their alts) that need help, or personal friends. For guildies I'd rather jump to another lower level character and run with them when possible. I'll of course run you through whatever you want if you pay me enough :P... gotta make gold somehow...
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