Twinks, what's thei purpose?Follow

I can tell you to a decently precise degree where I personally draw the line between a twink and normal player. Like Poldaran says many people have many different ideas, this is my personal divdor and it is the idea I have of a twink when I am speaking about them in all my posts.

A normal player can have anything from full on grey.white gear (laughable, but they could) to the best BoPs around. Any instance drop or quest reward is game for a normal player. I do not consider weapons like smite's mighty hammer, toxic revenger, or corpsemaker twink weapons because these are drops that any player can reasonably attain at that level.

I do consider any rare BoE blue to be a twink item (unless the person is simply a lucky ******* and got it as a drop). However I usually don't factor in rare BoEs when deciding if someone is a twink or not for the reason that most instance BoPs are on par or better than rare BoEs. Although a normal player cannot feasibly obtain these items he/she can reasonably obtain items of similar quality.

The real dividing line with twink comes with enchants. A player that has duel fieries, almost regardless of gear, is a twink. This is because a normal player, even one serious about BG, would not typically have such enchants. It is also because enchants provide soemthing a normal player cannot match. The difference between teh best twink gear and a mildly serious normal player is not really that great, it is a small overcomeable gap that does not break the game. I do not think there is anything broken in the BGs in regards to how well a character may be equipped. Enchants however make up a huge percentage of the gap between normal players and twinks, since twinks typically have many enchants, and normal players typically have none. I once made a calculation for a normal geared warrior (all the gear was suggested by a Twink proponent, I did not decide what "normal" was) and a twink. The ratio of enchant/gear in teh stat difference between the two characters I believe was 4 to 1 (80% enchantments).



My twink test rule of thumb is then: Any gear goes, but enchants are no noes.




And not level restricting enchants was definitely an error (that is not to say it is an error Blizzard intends to correct). It is an obvious inconsistency. Why bother level armor kits or bandages and pots? Hell why bother level capping gear? The reason is because high level stuff would be overpowered on low level characters, which enchants clearly are. If Blizzard intended for people to make twinks then more if not all items in the game would lack a level restriction.

Eh well It's late now and I'm really tired, 24 hours without sleepy. It sounds interesting, and I'll run some calculations tomorrow. It could be possible that the gap due to availability of purples is greater in the 3x 4x brackets, but I do doubt it. Crusader adds 200 ap for a warrior on proc, 14.29 dps, on say a 3.00 attack speed weapon you're looking at 42.86 damage extra on hit. The best warrior weapons at 19 fall between 19-21 DPS, so you're looking at a 70% increase in damage (plus lifesteal) for part of the time. I could calculate how much this on average this increases a warrior's dps/damage if I knew the duration of the crusader proc (I believe it's on a 2 procs per minute setup as well)?

Edited, Dec 8th 2006 11:22am by Allegory

Bumping this back up so we don't get a split discussion with the other twink thread (hopefully this one will take over).

I looked around at I'm pretty sure that Crusader is 1 ppm (like you said) and lasts for 15 seconds.

Warriors really only have two instant attacks at that level (and revenge doesn't really count). I do think I should factor overpower in somehow, but I'm not sure on what would be a an accurate amount of usage, for now I'll jsut leave it out of the equation.

So all in all you're looking at about a (14 some odd dps extra on normally 20ish dps) weapons 70% damage increase for 1/4 of the time (plus lifesteal). So on average nearly a 20% damage increase on a twink weapon over what a normal player could get on a weapon. That doesn't seem like a huge gap, but it is only one element of twink gear and the impact is definitely noticeably bewteen a warrior who has a crusader enchanted weapon and a warrior with the exact same gear save the crusader. This number is without overpowered factor in at all. It becoems significantly higher if you do (due to the doublign up effect, you get both more procs and more swing with the proc on).

For rogues it is just crazy. I'm going to use a base weapon like the cruel barb (now of course this is pretty much a twink only weapon, and using it as a abse will result in shrinking the gap bewteen twinks and normal players to make the gap look smaller than it is, but I think it's so huge already that shrinking it in favor of twinks can't even hurt it). I'm going to say it has about 16 dps for easy computing (15.5 dps +12 ap, actually a little more than 16, I rounded down). The normalised attack speed for a 1 handed sword is 2.4. Let's also assume a rogue spend about 2/3 of his/her energy in combat SSing (daggers rogues don't seee very popular in 19 anyways). The only energy is for the ocassional kick and junk. Duel crusader procs do stack so tehre is no easy there.

the offhand will next 1 ppm, the mainhand will net the normal 1 ppm + 1/2 ppm (2/3 of the time in a fight SSing, it takes 4 seconds to get 40 energy for SS, so every 6 seconds a SS, though this again is low because rogues enter fights with full energy, not zero, 2.8 attack speed weapon gets about 20 hits in a minute, so 1/20 every hit is a proc).

So a rogue gets about 2.5 ppm on crusader. 100 AP form each proc grants 7 dps (rounded down). So you're looking at about 18 DPS boost for 1/4 of the time, so 4.5 dps boost to each weapon (9 dps boost average from white damage). each SS hit gains 2.4*4.5=10.8 damage (on average), one ss every 6 secodsn means 10.8/6 1.8 dps increase.

So I'm ending up with basically 11 more dps (this is averaged over 60 seconds) that a twink rogue gets from crusaders that a normal rogue doesn't.



I'll do 3x and 4x later.

Edited, Dec 8th 2006 11:50am by Allegory