Twinks, what's thei purpose?Follow

That reminds of one WSG match a few weeks ago. This twink was on our side, yelling at us and telling us how everything we were doing was stupid. We were doing pretty badly, but luckily it was only 0-1.. we just weren't making any progress, and it was ugly in general. At that point he said he was tired of it, blah blah blah, and left. Only minutes after he left, we started doing better, and won 3-1. He didn't know we won I'm sure, but it gave me great satisfaction anyway!

Not many twinks I've seen are obsessed with winning and throw a total fit when they lose, but those types of idiots almost always twink themselves out to avoid the loss I guess. Because the childish ones stand out so much, that's probably why I dislike twinks right off when I see them.. I just assume they're obsessed with winning, and will go psycho if they lose, blaming everyone else. Stereotypes are wrong and inaccurate, but hard to avoid sometimes =P

First of all, your assertion thta "twinking at 19 and 29 ... the only bracket where twinks matter" is plainly wrong. This is not a matter of opinion - I've been there, and done that, and I can tell you flatly that you're wrong.

In the 30-39 and 40-49 bracket there are new levels of items we lovingly refer to as "epics." There are also a far greater number of blues ("rares"). My current PvP Priest was part of what some would call a "twink team" in every bracket, although I was never very twinked myself - I did what I could, but I have still never had a +30 spell damage enchant or a +healing glove enchant or anything at that level - I just had the basics (run speed, +100, +7stam, etc).

In the 40-49 bracket, you end up with Rogues dual wielding epics (Hammer of Northern Wind in main, that pretty dagger whose name I forget in off) with the virtually the same DPS output of a Krol Blade of Rend's MH. Essentially - they have very close to the damage output of a L60 blue/green Rogue. Add to that equally good gear from head to toe, basically covering them in armor as good as a L60 in green... and they HURT. It's exactly the same level of hurt as in 10-19 - not as much due to the enchants as the weapons themselves.

The continuation of the story is that at L60, "twinkage" (well by part of the definition, aka the amassing of the highest possible quality of gear), gear has a FAR larger effect than it does at 20-29. Try fighting an Tier 3 Rogue w/ blue/greens - he'll OPEN with enough DPS to kill you. Ambush crits you for 1700+. Oops - now you're gouged? Hmmm ... Backstab for 1600. What? You only have 3500ish health? Sorry but you're dead already! So much for all those abilities you trained. Perhaps the difference is that a L10 going into a 10-19 game has grey armor and a white L4 weapon and you won't find players quite a new at 40-49 or 60 - but who cares about those players? They didnt' take the time to gear up (or take the time to READ up and learn if they are new) and they deserve to have no fun because all they are really doing is trying to enjoy something at the expense of other players.

Furthermore, to the discussion in general--

RPGs, and more recently MMORPGs have ALWAYS been about playing to maximize the efficiency and effectiveness of your characters. Those who do not play this way are commonly refered to as "scrubs" because they are happy to get by with mediocre efforts and justify it by asserting their position as superior (I.e. "I don't have good gear cause I have a life").

You don't need to be uberly twinked out to enjoy 10-19 or 20-29. You DO have to spend some time to get prepared. Like I've demonstrated many times in previous discussions, I spent a total of 25g on a L19 Hunter and she can take all but the top Twink agility rogues down barely getting hit (it's only a problem if they dodge WingClip more than 2x in a row). You can go out and get optimal green gear and it'll make you strong enough to have a good time - even if you cant' often beat twinks 1on1.

hahahahahhahaahh i always have a good laugh when i see the poor people who got owned on an alt and complain and say that people who twink dont have skills on their 60. i am prolly more skilled then most mages out there but i find twinking 10000000 time funner ( i dont go after people under level 15 unless they attack me) maybe u should stop complaining and go farm some gold and make a twink. you will see how fun it is

What I have found wandering around this big intrawedz world is two things.
1. Its fun
2. The other side does it

Now I’ve been known to take my lowbie alt in a BG on occasion to escape the boredom of going over the same thing as my 60 did. To tell you the truth, I'm not bothered by a twink ganking, what bothers me is when they beat me down, THEN act like their better then me. Then its just patience that gets me through it. Hey its online, this kind of crap happens all the time, it only gets to you if you let it get to you.

..And well anyways.. We usually win regardless of twinks on the field.

My sentiments exactly. That's what alts are for, twinking is just adding to the fun factor.

You should see how it feels to go against tier 2/3 players in BGs while you still have tier 0 blues. Not a pretty sight.

Just thought I'd point out why I rated this artard down, in case others didn't see it.

Drat, why did you have to say "always" (in caps) and throw in RPG's? MMORPG's perhaps, but please draw the line there or distinguish between eRPG's and real ones. Today, TSR is forgotten, before that the letters stopped having meaning, before that we played "Chainmail" with figures and started to give those figures a continuing existance and growth. That led to an idea called *role* playing.

The theory you've described was once called min/maxing and a good GM was supposed to be able to balance the game to break it. If they didn't each character became a cookie cutter optimal build, and the idea of role playing got lost. That seems to be what has happened with MMORPG's in particular, call them games, even good games in their own right -- but leave the vestigial tip of the hat to role playing out. They have, at best, gone back to what Chainmail was -- a reasonable game of tactics, some strategy, and a bit of personalization.

As for twinking? Twinking, as far as I understand the term (perhaps that "understanding" doesn't extend far enough) is *not* what you described. The twink is a twink because the twink didn't earn that gear or the gold that purchased it. Those who earned it are not twinks, just good players or lucky ones. Twinks are twinks because they don't even pretend to be part of role playing. They are mass produced counters, using standardized builds, and have the character of chess pieces. They are bought, vat grown, and dropped into the BG's for a sub-game.

I play on PvE, and enjoy what I do. To each their own, but let's not call twinks any part of role playing, nor misquote history to justify them.

Edit for clarity: By calling twinks "bought" I mean the gear that is placed on them, for the purpose of turning the generic 'toon into a twink and in contrast to the idea of earning the gear through play time. I do not intend to imply that those who twink are buying completed twinks through ebay, powerleveling or the like.



Edited, Dec 6th 2006 2:26am by Rhodekylle

:) Point to Polderan, although I would say if you took the trouble to do that, you have taken yourself at least partially outside of the strict usage of "twink." That is moving more towards such elements of role playing as are possible in an MMO*PG.

Question is not genuine.

Meh I don't care if it's a troll.

There are 3 categories of reasons why people twink.

The first is where the majority fall, as much as people like to deny. The primary reason people twink is to have an extraordinary advantage over normal chracters in BG. They play for the same reason people play Quake with cheats on. They twink out of selfishness.

The second category is probably the second most popular reason people twink. The do it because they feel it is the only way they can compete with other twinks. It sad really that people who probably would not normally disregard the selfishness of twinking get sucked in, but they aren't justified either. They twink out of selfishness.

The third category is miscellaneous, probably less popular than the second. These are the people who state a reason other than the first two and genuinely mean it. They have no ill intent in twinking and see none of the problems it causes. They twink because they see something fun about it and do not see any harm occuring to others.




I look forward to hearing how the gear matching system works out. It might actual lower twink numbers to the level of extinction. Since most play to prey on normal characters, then if that possibility is removed a lot of twinks are going to lose their purpose. The only ones left will be those who genuinely want to fight others twinks (a huge minority) and those who think they might be able to pick up less twinked out twinks.

So if I don't twink, whether it's because I'm new to the game, or I don't know how to make gold, or whatever other reason real or imagined, is there something wrong with me wanting to enjoy the BGs?

Should BG fun be reserved for people who have alts that get/buy all the uber-gear enchants? Or is it reasonable that a lvl 17 player that's new to the game would actually like to get some enjoyment out of the BGs too?

If the claim is "you need to get gold so you can get your own twink" why not just say "battlegrounds aren't for new players"? Maybe they should just make BGs open to lvl 50+ or something, since apparently new players aren't entitled to enjoy them anyway.


I don't care that people twink. I do care that I have to play in the same BG as them. If they would assign values to all enchants and gear, they could seperate the twinks from the regular players in BGs.

The whole QQ thing is just a response from people that have no intelligent input for the topic. The game is clearly designed to provide a degree of "fairness" at all levels. Quests don't ask a lvl 15 player to slay a lvl 45 beast, etc. In the spirit of that fairness, I think players have a legit gripe about the BGs...it's the only part of the game where a task that is alledgedly designed for your lvl range can be so imbalanced.

QFT, Grollog here nailed some really good points.

In ye olden days of RPGs, a good DM would have routed around or short-circuited min/max munchkins like our friend TseTsuo here. Unfortunately, there's no built in controls like that in the current BG mechanics. I have no issue with the philosophical mindset behind min/max-ing for a specific level. The issue I have is that those min/max-ers are lumped in the same BGs with the people who want to use the BGs for the intended purpose: structured PVP minigames for a given level bracket while leveling up a character.

The reason this is such a hot-button issue is that twinks essentially shut down 10-19 and 20-29 brackets for normal players. Cries of "level up" or "QQ" (whatever that means) only serve to miss this point entirely.