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#52 Feb 16 2005 at 11:58 AM Rating: Default
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#53 Feb 16 2005 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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#54 Feb 16 2005 at 12:36 PM Rating: Default
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Can blizzard do anything about IGE? Sure them? Shut 'em down? They have a bunch of information about them. I don't see what's stopping them.
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#55 Feb 16 2005 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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What can you legaly do to a company that's based out of Hong Kong? I doubt enforcing a MMORPG EULA is very high on interpol's list of things to do. Besides China's cheap labor, I'm sure it offers them excellent legal advantages as well.

Even if they did manage to do something, do you think it would be worth it to them in legal expenses? Blizzard doesn't stand to gain much monetarily by prosecuting and IGE stands to lose everything by not defending. Not a good mixture for a law suit.


Edited, Wed Feb 16 12:57:05 2005 by HalfEmpty
#56 Feb 16 2005 at 2:45 PM Rating: Default
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ok, after reading that last post, this all seems very stupid. We can't do anything about it.
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#57 Feb 16 2005 at 3:07 PM Rating: Default
Well, I use both Alla and Thottbot but I do feel more comfortable with Thottbot. Fact is, I get my answers much faster and more detail from Thottbot than Alla. One of the thing that pisses me off with Alla is that frigign "Search function has been disable at this time due to high volume.....blah blah blah" that bullsh*t. Come on, I paid and I'm a premium user on this site.. you telling me I can't search? This site is gonna die if sh*ts continue like this.
Stop blaming on other sites, improve your own site first!
#58 Feb 16 2005 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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HalfEmpty wrote:
What can you legaly do to a company that's based out of Hong Kong? I doubt enforcing a MMORPG EULA is very high on interpol's list of things to do. Besides China's cheap labor, I'm sure it offers them excellent legal advantages as well.

Even if they did manage to do something, do you think it would be worth it to them in legal expenses? Blizzard doesn't stand to gain much monetarily by prosecuting and IGE stands to lose everything by not defending. Not a good mixture for a law suit.


Edited, Wed Feb 16 12:57:05 2005 by HalfEmpty


You know, because Interpol is in charge of civil matters and all.
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#59 Feb 16 2005 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Extabyte wrote:
ok, after reading that last post, this all seems very stupid. We can't do anything about it.


Sure you can. If it matters to you, stop supporting them by using thottbot to update their database. Of course, it's not going to stop them but at least you can know that you're not knowingly contributing to them.

Quote:

You know, because Interpol is in charge of civil matters and all.


Interpol is charged with enforcing international intellectual property crimes. From violating the license agreement (might be a civil only matter, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer), to using blizzard's copyrighted and trademarked materials to make their money, I'd believe that IGE is breaking some sort of law that Interpol is capable of enforcing. The point was that this would probably be pretty low on their list of things to enforce.

Besides that, let's say that blizzard won a civil suit against them but they refused to stop or pay up. Who do you think would enforce such matters?

Edited, Wed Feb 16 15:38:53 2005 by HalfEmpty
#60 Feb 17 2005 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Thank you for the informative first post.

I know that there are a few people who say that IGE does not matter in the scheme of things - that thotbott is useful and basically ... so what ?

I'm not one of them.

There are two sides to the IGE mechanism that have make me mad.

1) They sell in game artifacts & currency. As IGE hoards these resources rather than spend it - they end up giving chunks of resources to people who, no matter how much they think they know, have little repect for how a normal gamer values that item. They squander it - they inflate prices - they devalue the work I and many, many other players put into feeling good about their gameplay.

2) They encourage people to strip mine game resources - the best way to earn money by selling resources is as much as possible, as fast as possible, yes ? Whether it be by fishing-bots, gangs of gold miners or whatever. Whether these guys are direct employed or not - they would not do this if if IGE was not paying them. The tales of the antics some of these groups get up to are infamous throughout MMORPGs all over the 'net. And I use strip mining because their methods are as damaging to the in game environment as strip mining is in the real world.

So .. is it significant that a company that makes money by taking enjoyment away from normal gamers WHO ARE PAYING GOOD MONEY TO ENJOY THEMSELVES IN A GAME ENVIRONMENT has acquired a lot of information about where all the good stuff is in WOW by issuing thotbott under a false flag ? Damn right it is.

IGE are making money by ruining MMORPGs. Complacency to that helps them destroy this hobby we invest a chunk of our time, money and identity in. The devil does not buy your soul all at once - he buys it a sliver at a time with a little bit of honey.

I wouldn't p*ss on IGE if they were on fire. And supporting anything they run under a false flag is a lot nicer than p*ssing on them.
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#61 Feb 22 2005 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Congratulations to the original poster for some good detective work. Ogaming just posted a press release stating that yes indeed they are owned by IGE. It doesn't mention Thottbott, but the only way they have the number of page views they are claiming is if the are including Thott.
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#62 Feb 26 2005 at 5:58 PM Rating: Default
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I really HATE stuff like IGE.
A very good post. linked to it on the forums on(swedish sites) warcraft.nu and worldofwar.se
#63 Feb 26 2005 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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Ah that's disappointing to hear about thott. Maybe Cosmos has been corrupted as well? If so, it might be time for me to work on my own UI.
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#64 Apr 24 2005 at 4:58 PM Rating: Default
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Hmmm.... all very interesting!

I started WoW in phase 1 beta. From the beginning. Almost as soon as I got a client installed, I found out about Cosmos. Not too long afterwards I was using it.

Today, I wouldn't be happy playing WoW with the default UI. Not even close.

And I like the integrated data collection when you turn Thottbot collection on. You don't have to, of course.

As far as who to search with, I search whoever has the best information about what I need to know about.

For almost 8 years I've searched Alla for quest information and some zone information and lots of item information for Everquest. Because it was the best source.

Now days, I tend to search Thottbot first and if they provide me with dubious information (like telling me a static quest npc that I KNOW is in a town - just not where - is in an *instance* /snicker) then I go to Alla.

If some point Alla gets as much relevant content for WoW as they have to EQ regarding quests and items, then I'll prolly just forget who Thottbot is.

But lets be honest, WoW isn't that important to the MMOG world. Thing about it. Its way too easy to play, you can be level 60 in one month easy if you simply have enough hours in the day to play, and you don't hardly need gold for anything except a mount. By the time you can buy a good mount IGE will be selling the gold needed for like $25 because the demand in WoW is exactly that low.

What I'm interested in is what happens with Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. WoW is just a distraction until Saga comes out.

YMMV, this is only my 2 coppers.
#65 Apr 24 2005 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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But lets be honest, WoW isn't that important to the MMOG world. Thing about it. Its way too easy to play, you can be level 60 in one month easy if you simply have enough hours in the day to play, and you don't hardly need gold for anything except a mount. By the time you can buy a good mount IGE will be selling the gold needed for like $25 because the demand in WoW is exactly that low.


cough cough more people play WoW than any other MMORPG.

except L,L2 but no one counts them
#66 Apr 27 2005 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Definitely an interesting detective story! Thanks for informing all of us.
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#67 Apr 27 2005 at 9:09 PM Rating: Decent
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WoW isn't important to the MMORPG world as far as gil-selling is concerned, because most things are relatively easy to achieve. Reaching max level in Final Fantasy XI took literally thousands of hours, so theres a market for lv 75 characters.

(And at the rate the economy is inflating, the gil is pretty valuable too)

As far as Blizzard tackling IGE, I wrote a pretty lengthy email to them on the topic. I got next to no information about it...here was the response:

Hi (me),

I'm unsure about the specifics regarding IGE, but from what i understand it takes a little more time and resources in order to prevent companies like IGE from selling gold or items compared to smaller auctions found on EBay. These actions are in violation of our TOS and EULA, and steps are taken to prevent this from affecting our user base.

Regards,
Stanley F.
Online Support
Blizzard Entertainment
http://www.blizzard.com/support

I assume that means they are too lazy to go after a large company and would rather slam the ebayers.
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#68 Apr 27 2005 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
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except L,L2 but no one counts them


I do! I do!


But half of them are farmers anyways :P
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#69 Apr 27 2005 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Chtulhu the Quick wrote:
1) Create another link to the search area by the other database searchs. Possibly even make the search appear on the sidebar for even more ease of use.
Ummm... There is a search box and link on the left sidebar near the top. Been there as long as I can remember. Coincidentally its in a rather similar location to Thott's... Not sure how you could miss it...
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#70 Apr 27 2005 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Mukiryoku wrote:
Ah that's disappointing to hear about thott. Maybe Cosmos has been corrupted as well? If so, it might be time for me to work on my own UI.


You know, I always kept hoping that eventually someone would join KT that would be able to create a guild UI. Though i'm greatful enough that you are putting that website together.
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#71 Apr 27 2005 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Now we just need proof that EA owns IGE, then we can organize the villagers and slay the beast that is Electronic Arts!
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#72 Apr 28 2005 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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MaztaCazta what's with the random capitalization? Strange!
#73 Apr 28 2005 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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this is a very old thread. i wonder at the reasoning behind creating an account specifically to dredge it up again, morgaine.
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#74 May 03 2006 at 6:38 PM Rating: Default
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Sorry about the (semi) necro posting here, but with the recent news now I think this thread needs to be back up on the forums.
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#75 May 03 2006 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Alla is a part of that now?

Why!
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#76 May 07 2006 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Allakhazam wrote:
Interesting. I've know IGE owned Thottbot for quite a while now, but didn't want to post about it. I knew they were advertising on ogaming at one point, but didn't realize they had bought them outright. IGE tried to buy us a while ago and when we refused to have anything to do with them vowed to create a network to rival ours. Looks like they are on their way to doing so. I suggest you spread the word so others know about this too. I know people playing EQ2 would be interested in this info too.

indeed. spread the word about this, because it's horrible news, isn't it? how could they do that? bastards.
#77 May 07 2006 at 8:17 AM Rating: Default
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All the anti IGE talk. But wouldnt you love to be the one owning this company raking in the cash. The prob is with all you kiddies that you use your daddys credit cards and never stop to think about the business aspect of anything. All you cry about it WAAAAA they are ruining the game.

Business is Business. Like it or hate it, cry about it till you turn blue. You can't stop them, they will never die. Just like people that smoke pot. And I know half of you do. They are here to stay. And they are banking.

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#78 May 07 2006 at 8:42 AM Rating: Default
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Business is business, but illegal is illegal...
#79 May 07 2006 at 9:09 PM Rating: Default
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Pot is illegal too. They still do it. As long as poeple smoke it there will be dealers. As long as people buy gold IGE will be there. Thats all I am saying.
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#80 May 08 2006 at 2:38 AM Rating: Default
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I doubt they have any intrest in "taking over", posting gill selling ads or anything like that. I doubt there will really be any change in that way at all, no involvments in things of that nature. He is just ensuring the survival of the sites that indirectly affect his business.

He makes huge profits from ingame currency trade, sites like Alla, KI, somepage etc all boost the games that he makes money from. It's good sense to ensure there survival and make the games more popular, either by buying the site directly to ensure its future or with heavy support via banner adds on those sites.

I have a different take, I believe IGE is trying to buy public opinion in the most blatant way possible, by usurping communities who take a stand against their company. The prevalence of 12 post scholars who 'accidentaly' quote IGE or mention gilbuying (notice selling is almost never mentioned) and the absence of anti-RMT posters who have left the boards in the last couple of days means the tone of this board has already swung to Brocks benifit.

Quote:

Thu, Feb 10th 2005

By: Allakhazam Defender of Justice
Administrator

Interesting. I've know IGE owned Thottbot for quite a while now, but didn't want to post about it. I knew they were advertising on ogaming at one point, but didn't realize they had bought them outright. IGE tried to buy us a while ago and when we refused to have anything to do with them vowed to create a network to rival ours. Looks like they are on their way to doing so. I suggest you spread the word so others know about this too. I know people playing EQ2 would be interested in this info too.

One year back, they rejected an offer. Looks like IGE created a network that didn't just rival, but swallowed alla whole.

Quote:
Now in retaliation for having to give you the birds and the bees talk you have to give your parents the noobs talk.

Hehe, the other day I had to explain to my old man what 'snail mail' was ^^

Oh, if you're wondering what these 12 post scholars sound like, here's a thread:Linky
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#81 May 08 2006 at 3:17 AM Rating: Default
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the Question i would like to ask Alla what changed in a year really what made him change is his mind i guess money changes every thing.
#82 May 08 2006 at 3:42 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Pot is illegal too. They still do it. As long as poeple smoke it there will be dealers. As long as people buy gold IGE will be there. Thats all I am saying.


By that token it's justified to do anything for profit?

So you support assassins, child slave drivers and arms dealing to terrorists?

Just because there is a market for something dosnt mean that it should be legal or ignored.

I mean it's all business.
#83 May 08 2006 at 11:51 AM Rating: Default
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HAHA are u comparing murderers with people selling gold? I beileve that is completely apples and oranges.
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#84 May 08 2006 at 2:52 PM Rating: Default
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...And your point is?
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#85 May 08 2006 at 5:35 PM Rating: Default
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hate to say it, but this is old news. alla exposed this way back when thotbot went live and started competing vs this site.

now that this site and thotbot are owned by the same group it does not matter. the wow plug in for alla is just as bad now as it goes to the exact same network.

i always deleted the thottbot direcetory of the cosmos UI anyways, same thing with that bloody pizza cr4p.

it is always wise to know who you are dealing with when it comes to anything online.
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#86 May 09 2006 at 11:25 AM Rating: Default
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http://wow.azzor.com/445/truth_about_IGE.php

IGE owns alla too, and has for a while.

perhaps you remember a while back alla posting saying that they had acquired a number of new sites? that was his spin on getting bought out. and yes, this was all posted on the main alla forums as well.
#87 May 09 2006 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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hate to say it, but this is old news.


Uh, Singdall? Check the date on the first post. This thread was resurrected, not new.
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#88 May 09 2006 at 4:22 PM Rating: Default
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ok thanks. did not look at the date of the OP.
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#89 May 09 2006 at 4:46 PM Rating: Default
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The only thing that really makes thottbot better (IMO) is their opening page interface. It's just like google-- simple and uncluttered. There's a big text box to denote where I should type my querie and a bunch of popular links below. Once you click search, yeah you're brought up with a page that has similar navigation to this site. The thing about allakhazam is that the first page is loaded with a ton of information which loads very slowly sometimes. On top of that all this information can seem overwhelming and unnecessary.

This is the only edge Thottbot really has over alla and people notice these things. Implement some sort of search utility as the opening page (like google) and I think that would make Thottbot trash and obsolete, since they tend to be slow on updating their databases.
#90 May 09 2006 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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It's because Thottbot focuses on the database look-up thingy.

Allakhazam features news, funny pictures edit and edit other stuff.

Thottbot's design also looks like CRAP.

Edited, Tue May 9 17:51:20 2006 by Mazra
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#91 May 09 2006 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I am asking this here because I do not want to wade through the 20 page sticky...

Did Allakhazam ever provide an answer regarding his previous quote about IGE owning Thottbot and how he wanted to steer clear of that?
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#92 May 10 2006 at 12:21 AM Rating: Default
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Throwing in here since its where I first read it, but nice link and quote in sig Mazra.

Really makes you wonder if money really does buy happiness :P

Also I was surprised to see this rezzed up, but I knew someone would do it at some point.
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#93 May 10 2006 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Bump

I'd really like my question to be answered.
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