That's probably what Chandler Bing would say if he read the forum over on the official site.
This thread promt this discussion:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=476033&p=1&#post476033
Just another of those "My class stinks and isn't working as intended" threads, I know. That seems to be all they do over there. I really wish I could write on thos forums though.....
There was a level 32 Hunter who is saying he didn't have a problem, but the level 60 is just saying wait till you hit the higher levels, then you'll see.
My Question is this:
Don't you think you'd be lacking at least a little with NO TALENTS compared to someone who spent 51 talent points??
I really wish these people would think just a little bit. I compare talents to AAs from Everquest, and someone with 51 AAs would have a reasonable advantage over someone of the same level with none.
Oh well, I just can't wait to play. Till then, I just want to see what all the Hunter and Paladin talents are going to be. Those are the two classes I personally look forward to playing the most. I think talents will make a nice difference in the way characters play at the higher levels. If they didn't, why would they have them?
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Could Hunters BE anymore whiney?Follow
Quote:
Could Hunters BE anymore whiney?
Yes, they could be mages.
Or paladins, but paladins are justified.
Quote:
Don't you think you'd be lacking at least a little with NO TALENTS compared to someone who spent 51 talent points??
One could argue they are lacking more than other classes before they had talents added. The obvious counter-argument is that Hunters haven't been around as long, to be tweaked, but that isn't much excuse at this point.
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
I play a hunter and if you read their description on the forum they can't do most of the stuff in the description. Their DPS isn't all that. It's good, but not on par with other DPS classes. They can't take hits very well so their PVP isn't very good. They have very minor CC and it has to be set before a fight starts. I believe the only thing they can do well is solo and every class can solo in this game. Most of the high levels are just pointing out that the class needs to be changed in order to be more group friendly. This is beta and as the Devs themselves have said the classes aren't completly the way they want them to be and they would like input.
they may be a bit week now but i do think that the addition of tallents will help a lot. they already said one tallent will allow the damage done by a pet to be leached to life for the hunter this helps with the taking damage part. i am sure that there will also be tallents to help with ranged damage and skills. the class isnt finished yet is the main thing. most of the people in the beta just want the game to be played like it will be in retail they have no concept of testing and the game not being finished yet. when the hunters tallents come in i am sure that they will become a lot better class
Aye, fact of the matter is that they were the last class added. They do need a little work. Paladins are probably the most justified as needing work, though Warriors got hit a bit with the nerf bat and Blizzard already said Warrior changes were coming.
I just wish people could express themselves a little more constructively. I really look forward to seeing the talents for Hunters and Paladins. That hit point-leech talent really sounds great.
I played a hunter, granted, it was only to level 17, but I did enjoy it. I just can't wait for the patch, talents, and OPEN BETA!! Those Closed Beta testers are just SOOO lucky, I wish they realized how lucky they are.
I just wish people could express themselves a little more constructively. I really look forward to seeing the talents for Hunters and Paladins. That hit point-leech talent really sounds great.
I played a hunter, granted, it was only to level 17, but I did enjoy it. I just can't wait for the patch, talents, and OPEN BETA!! Those Closed Beta testers are just SOOO lucky, I wish they realized how lucky they are.
When you think of hunter damage do you also factor in the damage your pet will be doing to the enemy?
whell the pet doesnt do much damage at all to the enemy so i bet that most people dont add it in. but damage is damage if your pet dose 20 damage and you do 100 damage thats 120 damage so 20 may not sound like a lot but it all adds up
Yea Hunters Talents will definately change everyones mind about the class. Warlocks
weren't all that hot and look at the now.
weren't all that hot and look at the now.
WOOT!! Scroll down to the blue in this thread!!
Hunter and Paladin talents in the next patch as well as some Warrior changes!!
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=454309#Post454309
Just the info we were looking for. Now if only this brings OPEN BETA!
Hunter and Paladin talents in the next patch as well as some Warrior changes!!
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=454309#Post454309
Just the info we were looking for. Now if only this brings OPEN BETA!
That's news to you? That information is several weeks old...
(not that I can be critical of someone who isn't actively in the beta, but I thought you read up on the boards more than most)
Yes, I've been trying to level my paladin and hunter since they are my two main alts. Got the paladin to 40, which means 31 talent points, so turning my attention to the hunter now. Some people have leveled a bunch of characters that high, but I always stall out and start a new one.
(not that I can be critical of someone who isn't actively in the beta, but I thought you read up on the boards more than most)
Yes, I've been trying to level my paladin and hunter since they are my two main alts. Got the paladin to 40, which means 31 talent points, so turning my attention to the hunter now. Some people have leveled a bunch of characters that high, but I always stall out and start a new one.
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
Scholar
40 posts
I am fully aware of hwo the hunter is good and not, and know where he is lacking, i browse the forums at least once a day, so i got a great picture of wut is going on with them. The reason most ***** is cuz of a HUGE drop in dps from 45-cap. Simple solution, wait fo rbetter guns/bow/crossbows.
Another thing. Talents SHOULD NOT, i repeat SHOULD NOT define the class and make them good, they should be good all on there own, so ppl shouldnt really so much on talents. BUT on the other hand i hope they help them, cuz i would be mad to get a high lvl hunter with crap talents and do nuthing but ***** and moan lik esumm ppl i know (EVERYONEON HUNTER FORUMS almost)
Another thing. Talents SHOULD NOT, i repeat SHOULD NOT define the class and make them good, they should be good all on there own, so ppl shouldnt really so much on talents. BUT on the other hand i hope they help them, cuz i would be mad to get a high lvl hunter with crap talents and do nuthing but ***** and moan lik esumm ppl i know (EVERYONEON HUNTER FORUMS almost)
Azuarc,
I've known that Hunter talents were done before the last patch but didn't go live. Paladin talents were in the works but no confirmation as to if they would make the patch or not(until I saw that thread).
As far as reading the boards, when did I say that? About two months ago? I do still follow them, but I'm not going to read every thread about every topic(too damn many threads and hardly anyone has a real valid point(a few do, but too many don't)). Listening to all the whining will lower your I.Q. real fast if you do it too much. If I were able to post, maybe I'd be more active. I only saw that info when they linked it to the news page. Besides it being new to me, I figure it's probably new to some others as well.
Smily,
I know what you are saying, but talents help to shape the finished character. If they didn't, they would be meaningless. A character with talents, especially at level 60 with 51 talent points SHOULD have a big advantage compared to the same character with none. The pet related talent "Spirit Bond"(each time the Hunter's pet strikes an enemy, the Hunter gains some life) suddenly gives the Hunter some more melee resilience with out even taking the melee talents into account. I guess what I'm saying is that they HAVE to make some NOTICEABLE difference in the classes playability, with the point being that you decide what focus the class takes.
I've known that Hunter talents were done before the last patch but didn't go live. Paladin talents were in the works but no confirmation as to if they would make the patch or not(until I saw that thread).
As far as reading the boards, when did I say that? About two months ago? I do still follow them, but I'm not going to read every thread about every topic(too damn many threads and hardly anyone has a real valid point(a few do, but too many don't)). Listening to all the whining will lower your I.Q. real fast if you do it too much. If I were able to post, maybe I'd be more active. I only saw that info when they linked it to the news page. Besides it being new to me, I figure it's probably new to some others as well.
Smily,
I know what you are saying, but talents help to shape the finished character. If they didn't, they would be meaningless. A character with talents, especially at level 60 with 51 talent points SHOULD have a big advantage compared to the same character with none. The pet related talent "Spirit Bond"(each time the Hunter's pet strikes an enemy, the Hunter gains some life) suddenly gives the Hunter some more melee resilience with out even taking the melee talents into account. I guess what I'm saying is that they HAVE to make some NOTICEABLE difference in the classes playability, with the point being that you decide what focus the class takes.
Quote:
I do still follow them, but I'm not going to read every thread about every topic...Listening to all the whining will lower your I.Q. real fast if you do it too much.
Fair enough. Guilty as charged.
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
49 posts
There's something amusing about threads complaining about other threads- it's all so recursive- kind of like if your sims could play the sims. But I will say a few things about hunters.
Yesterday Blizzard announced that they were to be the ultimate pulling class. I don't see how this is going to happen because, looking through the planned talents, I don't see anything that either a) increases weapon range, or b) decreases aggro radius of things sniped. Why would you want a hunter to pull, when a warrior can do it just as well, and is the character that you want to have the aggro in the first place?
I don't play a hunter, but I like the concept. I can definitely understand why the hunters in game now are grumpy though- Thott did an excellent discussion of the scalability of hunters here: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=6365#Post6365.
Additionally, as hunters point out, they have 20% less storage space (because they need to replace a bag with a quiver), and increased costs in the form of ammo and food for the pet. Basically, the two things that define hunters- ranged weapons and pets, come with some big drawbacks that are missing from the class defining features of other classes. There is no drawback for my warrior's ability to tank, or a rogues ability to stealth and do high damage, etc... I suspect that these are little things that seem pretty small from a distance, but after leveling a character for weeks, you start to find them pretty irritating.
Yesterday Blizzard announced that they were to be the ultimate pulling class. I don't see how this is going to happen because, looking through the planned talents, I don't see anything that either a) increases weapon range, or b) decreases aggro radius of things sniped. Why would you want a hunter to pull, when a warrior can do it just as well, and is the character that you want to have the aggro in the first place?
I don't play a hunter, but I like the concept. I can definitely understand why the hunters in game now are grumpy though- Thott did an excellent discussion of the scalability of hunters here: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=6365#Post6365.
Additionally, as hunters point out, they have 20% less storage space (because they need to replace a bag with a quiver), and increased costs in the form of ammo and food for the pet. Basically, the two things that define hunters- ranged weapons and pets, come with some big drawbacks that are missing from the class defining features of other classes. There is no drawback for my warrior's ability to tank, or a rogues ability to stealth and do high damage, etc... I suspect that these are little things that seem pretty small from a distance, but after leveling a character for weeks, you start to find them pretty irritating.
I'll admit that even at level 17(as a Hunter) I found it at least a little annoying that my bags filled so fast and 1 was a quiver(so couldn't hold any loot).
Could you please link where you were able to see the Hunter talents? I've been working under the assumption that talents would make a difference in different areas of bow damage and pet abilities, etc. I'd certainly like to see what you have so that I can post from a more informed perspective.
I know I can comment though that there are different levels of the "Growl" ability and that at the worst, things may need to be tweaked a little. The key here is in making the pets more scalable as said in the post. This is less a major issue as it is a tweaking that we can't even be sure isn't in the next patch already.
I'd really like to see that list of Hunter talents you were talking about though.
Could you please link where you were able to see the Hunter talents? I've been working under the assumption that talents would make a difference in different areas of bow damage and pet abilities, etc. I'd certainly like to see what you have so that I can post from a more informed perspective.
I know I can comment though that there are different levels of the "Growl" ability and that at the worst, things may need to be tweaked a little. The key here is in making the pets more scalable as said in the post. This is less a major issue as it is a tweaking that we can't even be sure isn't in the next patch already.
I'd really like to see that list of Hunter talents you were talking about though.
as far as i know there isnt a list of tallents. they just gave us a sneak peack of tallents one from each group. i forget the other 2 the only one i remember is the one with the pet leaching life to you. other than that as far as i know no other info has been provided on the tallents
Ahunter post:
This says to me that they got all the info on the talents and know what will be coming out in the patch. If this is the case, then I, and a lot of other people, would really like to see the info.
If this isn't the case, then they are posting false information as how can they comment on what talents will or won't do for the class if they've only seen the same three everyone else saw. If they are basing their comments on just the three we've all seen, then that's just silly.
On the other hand, an answer to the question is warranted as Blizzard claimed one thing about the class and it appears as another. If Blizzard is expecting Hunters to be the "Ultimate pulling class", then some changes will need to be made, or they will have to better explain how they feel Hunters are to fulfill this role, unless the talents will speak for themselves.
One thing I noticed right away though was in the first sentence about Hunters they wrote "The Hunter is a vicious damage dealer." then later wrote "The combination of their extreme range, decent damage, and trap capability, Hunters are the perfect pullers for any group.". I'd like to know, are they vicious damage deals or merely decent damage? Saying both in the same paragraph is rather confusing if it isn't actually contradictory. I personally think they(with the pet) should be dealing more damage than a Warrior, because they don't take damage as well(rogues would be included in this too being a DPS class).
Just my thoughts.....
Quote:
Yesterday Blizzard announced that they were to be the ultimate pulling class. I don't see how this is going to happen because, looking through the planned talents, I don't see anything that either a) increases weapon range, or b) decreases aggro radius of things sniped.
This says to me that they got all the info on the talents and know what will be coming out in the patch. If this is the case, then I, and a lot of other people, would really like to see the info.
If this isn't the case, then they are posting false information as how can they comment on what talents will or won't do for the class if they've only seen the same three everyone else saw. If they are basing their comments on just the three we've all seen, then that's just silly.
On the other hand, an answer to the question is warranted as Blizzard claimed one thing about the class and it appears as another. If Blizzard is expecting Hunters to be the "Ultimate pulling class", then some changes will need to be made, or they will have to better explain how they feel Hunters are to fulfill this role, unless the talents will speak for themselves.
One thing I noticed right away though was in the first sentence about Hunters they wrote "The Hunter is a vicious damage dealer." then later wrote "The combination of their extreme range, decent damage, and trap capability, Hunters are the perfect pullers for any group.". I'd like to know, are they vicious damage deals or merely decent damage? Saying both in the same paragraph is rather confusing if it isn't actually contradictory. I personally think they(with the pet) should be dealing more damage than a Warrior, because they don't take damage as well(rogues would be included in this too being a DPS class).
Just my thoughts.....
Vicious damage dealer does not necessarily imply extreme, nor does decent imply mediocre. Blizzard (and really any good PR member) carefully chooses their words to not get entrapped by them later.
What concerns me is that hunters are:
a) not good pullers, except for people who don't know how to assist but can see the big floating arrow
b) do not have extreme range, as my priest seems to have more range and mages have greater still
c) trap capability in my direct experience adds very little, but perhaps I'm just not using them correctly
d) do not even have average damage right now, partially due to the relative lack of selection in ranged weaponry and partially from the utter lack of real damage benefits hunters have over another character using a ranged weapon. So they don't have to keep clicking the button, and have their own tank to hold their foes at a distance...hunter's mark and aspect of the hawk only go so far, and the specialty shots do not do anywhere near the damage another class does with their special attacks.
What concerns me is that hunters are:
a) not good pullers, except for people who don't know how to assist but can see the big floating arrow
b) do not have extreme range, as my priest seems to have more range and mages have greater still
c) trap capability in my direct experience adds very little, but perhaps I'm just not using them correctly
d) do not even have average damage right now, partially due to the relative lack of selection in ranged weaponry and partially from the utter lack of real damage benefits hunters have over another character using a ranged weapon. So they don't have to keep clicking the button, and have their own tank to hold their foes at a distance...hunter's mark and aspect of the hawk only go so far, and the specialty shots do not do anywhere near the damage another class does with their special attacks.
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
Yeah, the "extreme range" comment got me too. I felt we had a reasonable range, but still had room for improvement. I'm hoping that MAYBE they are holding back better stuff as everything seemed to be range 35. Perhaps one of the talents will increase range by a certain percentage by each rank you buy into it up to 3-5 ranks.
I just really want to see what talents do for the class as it's hard to comment on how good or bad the class is when it isn't complete. Once the talents are there, then it will be a more accurate picture.
Edit to add:
The real point I was trying to make with this post is that anyone who chose to play a Hunter did so KNOWING is wasn't finished yet. Hunters aren't as good as classes that have their talents and been around a lot longer to get their tweaks, what a shock. They made these characters knowing the class needed more work and then complain that the class needs more work. It just really boggles the mind. :P
Edited, Wed Oct 27 19:53:06 2004 by KerikDaven
I just really want to see what talents do for the class as it's hard to comment on how good or bad the class is when it isn't complete. Once the talents are there, then it will be a more accurate picture.
Edit to add:
The real point I was trying to make with this post is that anyone who chose to play a Hunter did so KNOWING is wasn't finished yet. Hunters aren't as good as classes that have their talents and been around a lot longer to get their tweaks, what a shock. They made these characters knowing the class needed more work and then complain that the class needs more work. It just really boggles the mind. :P
Edited, Wed Oct 27 19:53:06 2004 by KerikDaven
Aye the range nor DPS is that great. I grouped with a mage in my guild today and not only was his range longer, but he killed the mobs about 4 times as fast. I'm deffinatly switching to either mage or shadow priest in retail.
49 posts
There was a more complete list at one point, but this is the only one I have now =/ sorry to be such a tease.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=8399&p=1&#post8399
Maybe they will have a shot in marksmanship that reduces the range of the mobs call for help, and generates less hate. THAT would be a talent worth having.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=8399&p=1&#post8399
Maybe they will have a shot in marksmanship that reduces the range of the mobs call for help, and generates less hate. THAT would be a talent worth having.
True, it would be. However, if it is considered a class role, it shouldn't be a requirement to spent talent points on it. That's like saying priests should pay talent points to be able to heal effectively. (More effectively, yes. But they should be effective to start with.)
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
I really agree with Azuarc on this point and would like to see if the next patch does anything to enforce the role Hunters are supposed to be playing. Otherwise, we'll really have to question how Blizzard feels Hunters will be fulfilling the roles when they don't currently appear to be.
Don't get me wrong, I really like the Hunter class, but it really doesn't seem to be able to do the job that Blizzard JUST said it was meant to do. As I said though, it is an unfinished class so I guess we'll just have to see where it stands once Blizzard says it is as they intend it to be.
Don't get me wrong, I really like the Hunter class, but it really doesn't seem to be able to do the job that Blizzard JUST said it was meant to do. As I said though, it is an unfinished class so I guess we'll just have to see where it stands once Blizzard says it is as they intend it to be.
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