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#1 Oct 18 2004 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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53 posts

Can someone please post this in the unreachable land of the whiney children? This place is also known as Blizzard’s World of Warcraft closed beta forums. I have never seen so many unintelligent children complaining about nothing.

The main issue is the aspect of the release date and the game being “Not Finished”. Anyone who says that WoW is not finished enough for release must have never even played an MMORPG before. Out of every MMORPG I have ever played I found one that loaded and ran without a noticeable problem, that was FFXI. This was only because it was live for over a year in Japan prior to its North American release.

I played the stress test, WoW was ready for release then, if not before. For all of you beta “testers” out there, a beta test is designed to evaluate the basic functions of gameplay and balance, that is all. If the core program functions, a game may release completely unbalanced, then be fixed later. This creates problems, but as many of us who have played other MMORPGs know, it is very common. Blizzard decided to take a few extra steps on this, and have managed to create what should prove to be the best product in this genre to date. Beta does in no way involve an evolution to a perfect product.

Most MMORPGS are brutal at launch. Although this is changing, I remember AO at release; it was insane, completely insane. When you zoned you might spawn in the middle of the next zone. Crafting combinations given in quests would not work. In game quests and content were broken, or timed out at 20 hours instead of the intended 20 minuets. And yet with all these flaws, they got the game under control in a few months. Nerfs were rampant, and skills were taken, then given, then taken. It was a problem and many more arose, but overall they were successful. Now this game has enjoyed nearly 4 years of global success, winning industry awards, and maintaining a spot in the top 10 rated games at MMORPG.com. They also had an ongoing test server and that place was a web of Swiss cheese, from here they completed the patching prior to releasing it to the main server, kind of a continuous beta. Problems in a beta are numerous, and that’s the way betas are supposed to go. Once the problems stop the game or patch is released.

Betas are not for the select few to wander around ganking each other, or complaining that their cape doesn’t come in blue. These are the petty complaints you meet after release. Beta testers should be falling through the earth, creating craft items from a bugged combination of items, discovering then reporting exploits, and testing all the quest content for holes. I think the children need to reprioritize their gameplay. If this game is truly doomed stop complaining and start debugging. Your petty ganking complaints do no good, your “this game is not ready” is useless unless you point to a specific game mechanic that is missing. An example would be, my warrior lost his attack ability when I equipped this set of chainmail, not some rant about undervalued talents (I played fine without them in stress test on many characters). Even if some game content does not meet your expectations the only important beta function is that the content functions as it is intended to. Does the –10% mana trait really work on every spell? DO YOU EVEN CARE? From what I see, it does not look like it. Most of you are too busy complaining about how the Druid’s heal traits might be a little tiny bit better than the Priests’. How about you priests shut up and think, “Gosh we have talents, there are classes in this game who don’t have any traits yet, I think they are more important than my arrogant little butt.” Copy and paste this to every petty complaint there is.

A game has to function at release, every MMORPG is bound to have problems, that’s half the reasoning behind patching. The other half being content. If the core program of the game works ship it, everything after that is finesse, a pure bonus to those who pay for the game. It is also a good way to increase sales, but eventually the risk/reward ratio says just ship it.

Lastly I hate you all. Those of you who complain constantly got into a game that has probably been the most anticipated even in computer gaming history and you don’t even care. You sit back and complain untouched on your mighty throne not paying for the game, and not caring about how your actions effect any but yourselves. I hope that not a one of you end up in the live game as you really don’t belong there.

There, now read that and flame me to death you worthless masses. I could care less what your opinion is and honestly no one else does either. Blizzard succeeded in making a game it will be wildly successful because it is what people want to see. They could have released without talents, they could have released with ¼ the content they have now but they didn’t. They made a good decision to add this as it will allow for a much better out of the box experience, but the game is, and has been ready for a commercial release for months now.

With all this being said, I know there are great numbers of players out there who have dedicated themselves to making this a better experience. They have tested many of the monotonous parts of game design while the children touting the windmills with their power, or grief killing for no reason but their own sadistic pleasure. Spending 14 hours at the alchemists’ table testing every plant combination is beta testing, spending weeks on a PvP server killing those 30 levels below you is not. Those of you who have honestly tested the game and its content, you are our heroes. You are the silent few whose voices should have been heard over the clamor of children. The quality of the stress test speaks wonders of your effort and Blizzards dedication. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

That’s it for me. I do hope someone posts this in the unreachable forums, as the voices of reason have been denied a chance to respond within those forums for too long.
#2 Oct 18 2004 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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201 posts
Amen.
#3 Oct 18 2004 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
It doesnt matter if they read your post man. All they will say in response is...."You're just whining becuause you are jealous of us being able to play it and you don't want us to be able to play it for free anymore!!!"

Thats how they all feel...and, well...they are right. I want this game to be out NOW so I can play. It's not "Fair" that people in the Stress Test Contest win if they got to the highest level...If I wanted I could have gotten to the highest level...I just spent more time in different places AND with different classes...


Oh well, release and OB are just around the corner...I'll just keep cutting myself till then.
#4 Oct 18 2004 at 8:14 PM Rating: Decent
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53 posts
completely understood, the mainstay of my rant is the fact that I could not respod, in any way wahtsoever. I couldnt not even give support to those who are doing a good job. I did end up lashing out, but I stand by my words.

The fact that the children would listen is outside reality. Selfish reasons aside I really think the Blizzard Dev staff and serious testers might appriciate that the people outside the test realise how ficle the average post is, and that we really appriciate their work.

The issue of release is up to Blizzard and however anxious I may be, I leave it in their capable hands. As of yet they have never let me down.


Edited, Tue Oct 19 00:53:37 2004 by Ketsukei
#5 Oct 18 2004 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
Ketsukei,

I couldn't agree with you more. Many of the guild leaders need to ashamed at how their guild mates were acting on the forums. Instead of posting legit suggestions, they had to post rude comments toward Blizzard and the community website managers. These are all people working very had to push out a product for us to enjoy. For all those that want to sit and complain, give me your account for wow, and you can have my Shadowbane account. Now that is a game for the developers to be proud of... NOT!!! If the guild leaders of all the board whiners would have had their people but 1/2 the amount of energy into looking for bugs as whining on the boards and griefing their fellow players, I'm willing to bet we'd be closer to retail release.

You beta testers need to look in the mirrors and ask yourselves if you beta tested or just enjoyed a free ride. If you just played the game, do yourself a favor and delete your account. You abused a system, wasted Blizzard Ent. time and money, and stole a beta slot from someone who would have actually done the job of beta testing.

If you are a beta tester that did nothing more than play the game instead of looking for bugs, you need to go learn the difference between beta testing and stress testing.

For all of you beta testers out there that did the job the way it was meant to be done... I also thank you for all your time and energy. Your efforts are truly appreciated.

Anyway,
Let the games begin...
#6 Oct 19 2004 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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6,678 posts
Quote:
You beta testers need to look in the mirrors and ask yourselves if you beta tested or just enjoyed a free ride.


While I agree with the point you are trying to make, I think you take it too far. When given a choice between playing the game and going out of my way to look for bugs, I play the game, because I'm more likely to find major problems simply by playing. (Weird exploits that involve making sure your timer ends in an even digit while the tens digit of your score is that same multiple of 11 of your coins is not something people would ever test. (That's a Mario 3 reference.))

I think the key question to ask is do people recognize that it's a beta test? Do they send feedback and bug reports? Do they consider trying things no one else has? I can proudly say that I'm an Alliance member that enjoys going to Desolace. Most people don't even know where Desolace is. I send in bug reports and suggestions for how to make the game better faithfully, rather than assuming Blizzard knows a problem exists and expect them to magically fix it. I may not re-spec my character constantly to "test" different talent configurations, but I feel its important to see if I can play with the ones I pick. (Especially as a non-holy priest in instances and other high-demand environments.)

In short, I am worth my salt. But I don't do the things you imply a beta tester should.

And I still do plenty of whining. =p
____________________________
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
#7 Oct 19 2004 at 4:21 PM Rating: Default
I was just reading a beta board thread about warrior HP at lvl 60 and NONE of the warriors would respond with the information. They all flamed the guy and told him to stop trying to get them nerfed. Yeah, thats good beta testing. Lets hide things about our class because we're afraid of being nerfed during the beta, rather then have things adjusted to be balanced by the time the game goes gold.

Yeah, I'd at least expect the beta testers to be upcoming with their abilities so that they can be tweaked, you don't have to be actively seeking bugs an exploits and oversights, but to actively COVER UP those same things is just appalling.

Please, delete your characters and give me your account.
#8 Oct 19 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
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4,520 posts
LarzzHolyStrike wrote:
Many of the guild leaders need to ashamed at how their guild mates were acting on the forums.


DIE much?
#9 Oct 19 2004 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
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53 posts
I went on a bit of a tangent, but aside from that. I know everyone can’t test all day, you need to play the game, and you should. I think you are a good example of what these children should be doing Azurac. If you don’t have interest in testing every crafting combo or opening up the calculator box and somehow hardwiring them all together to check the programming code for exploits, then don’t. Still every member of the beta is expected to contribute in some way. The other way to help in the beta is to pass on information and discuss it openly, both of these you excel in Azurac, your services to this site are highly praised, or should be. They could take your post and add it to the blizzard FAQ, I think yours is more clear and up to date (as to my info). You’re a great example of one of the many ways to contribute to a beta system, please do not take offense at what I said.

Whining is very different form discussing. Pointing out flaws and offering solutions, no matter how radical id discussion. My post was borderline whining, but it contained plenty of examples, possibly radical, on how to redeem a childlike error. Testing is very different form exploiting. And contributing is very different from the majority of content in the WoW forums. That’s my point, simply put and very condensed.

Thanks again for all your help here Azurac, I again apologize for any grit I wore off your teeth, no matter how little.

The thing about the lvl 60 Warriors, that’s just silly. Do you honestly thing blizzard doesn’t know the Hp max they programmed in for the character? Do these people even think?

Now here's a little comedy concerning the lvl 60 warrior post.
-The WoW release is approaching and the development team is busy making its final checks on the game.

Development Leader: “Hey Bill, were coming up on release. Did you set the level 60 hp max for the warrior class yet?”
Programmer Bill: “Gosh I did but I can’t remember if it was 1,000,000 or 1,000.”
DL: “Wow bill, you better find out”
PB: “ I know, but after 4 years of working here I can’t remember how to check. I better go ask on the forums.”
DL: “Yeah the beta testers are here to help us develop the game. They are sure to be helpful and professional.”
PB: “I will check it now.”

Later the next day…

DL: “So Bill, did you get the warrior hp issue worked out?”
PB: “Well no, it didn’t go to well at all. I posted the question in the forum, but all I got back was “1 pwned joo” or “gank bznach” form s00prleetlewtd00d2999. And then Dragonball1Z15689 said he “wouldn’t let us gimp the warrior class anymore, because last time he fought Illidan he had to hit him 2 times.” Looks like they foiled us again.”
DL: “Yeah better luck next time Bill, but ill go change the pet bunny animation so it is constantly humping their legs. Oh and I reset the warrior hp to –1 for level 60.”
PB: “Wow thanks, that’s the last time I ever get ganked!” -gives an exaggerated wink and the thumbs up sign to the DL.-

-Cheesy 1950's PSA music and fade out.

A lovely little story if I ever did see one. Well I did smile writing it.

P.S. I almost used Development Head, but I thought the initials were a bit inappropriate.

Edit ------- Spelling


Edited, Tue Oct 19 22:46:19 2004 by Ketsukei
#10 Oct 20 2004 at 3:55 AM Rating: Decent
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6,678 posts
Heh, well, I'm not sure how receptive I would be toward any...toning down of the class I play. (I'll avoid using the word nerf.) But then again, I don't play flavor-of-the-week what's-most-powerful-right-now, so defending my class from being toned down might be a little different than, say, a mage back in their glory days. My response might be a little bit more constructive that mimicking Mr. T, but I am still leery at times of some of the decisions Blizzard makes on balance at times.
____________________________
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
#11 Oct 20 2004 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
Haha funny, but kinda missed what my point was. I guess i should have been more clear. The person asking for the information was a mage, not a developer. My main point is, blizzard has alot of things to do, and if the other players dont know some of the facts about the game to analyze, then they cant do their jobs either. You cant honestly expect the blizzard team to crunch all the numbers to realize that a warriors HP at 60 might be too much for any other class to over come, and by not being upfront with the information the beta warriors are just being childish brats that enjoy eating their cake.
#12 Oct 23 2004 at 3:15 AM Rating: Decent
Well really I have seen many posts now in here regarding the beta testers. I didn't got to the beta, couldn't anyway I guess. In my opinion, they should be playing the game, report what they find is wrong, and keep playing. After all, they all play in a different manner, and so, they will probably find different bugs just playing normally. However, there are those bugs that people like game testers find, those that are only found by say, jumping from a building with the chainmail at level 12 and landing on a barrel from which it is not possible to escape. But those bugs are just plain hard to find, for me, beta testers should just play and play and report and report. However, this doesn't mean I am not agains their whinnings. Thats truly shameful for them to do, they act as if it was retail already, and they actually paid for playing. In that case, having a class really nerfed and complaining about it might be not so bad. But they are there free, and to TEST.

Well, anyways, what can Blizzard do? There are a lot of bastards out there, and unfortunately they can access the internet and do what they whant. I guess Blizzard should have know how the momrpg way is when beta tests. I bet they expected lots of whinning from the start. Blizzard is a great game maker, has never let me down, and I know they won't on this game no matter what beta testers whinne about. After all, they are professionals, I hope...

It isn't fair that a young brat got the place in the beta that could have gone to the hands of a true beta tester, but what can we hope for? Life is not always fair, we have to live with that.

I agree with you, Ketsukei, as although we can't stop stupidity in the Internet, we can at least hold it back from growing, if I were on beta, I would have posted what Ketsukei posted originally in every thread I found where stupid whinning occured, hope someone who is on beta would consider it heh.

Just a last recomendation, could blizzard do something like making a secret forum to report and inviting only the beta testers that they see are really working?

See ya later! And no disrespect to decent beta testers like Asuarc.
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