FFXI vs. WoWFollow

I for one have played FFXI, and i liked it for a while, i was a white mage in it so i got into groups alot, the one thing that really ticked me off though is i decided not to get a subjob, but apparently nobody wants a WM that doesnt have a subjob of sumsort, i hated that since me as a player made the choice not to do it. Now that ive read and am waiting for WoW for about a year now, i am thourgholy convinced that me as a player canmake the choice myself to do wut i want and not be penalized for it, i lik ethat about WoW and it was one of th most annoying things in FFXI----------------------------thats just my 2 cents

Don't forget in FFXI's quest system, to actually do the quests, you need:

1) To be a much higher level then the level of the item being rewarded, which means you won't be using the item so you'll just be selling it anyways.

or

2) Be able to sneak/invis yourself everywhere.

Where's the fun in that? Where's the challenge?

Ok I read through the first several posts and skipped the rest so what I say may have already been said.

Well WoW Stress servers are down for the time being, so I figured I'd hop over here and see the WoW info and saw this thread and figured I HAD to respond to it.

First off all the MMO's I have played have all been very different to the point of non-comparison, in saying that comparing these two games for me is an excercise in bias. It has to be, because the MMO's ARE all different, it'd be like comparing Super Mario Brothers with Sonic the Hedgehog, yes they are in the same genre but they are two totally different games. I have played some I enjoyed for a time and then the flaws started getting to me (EverQuest, FFXI, Star Wars Galaxies, City of Heroes), I've played some that just didn't draw me in enough (Lineage II, Anarchy Online), and others to this point I have loved (Dark Age of Camelot, World of Warcraft).

For Everquest it just got to be level grinding with very little else to do. Yeah the EQ fans are going to say 'But there are raids and blah blah blah.' when it comes down to it, it's still grinding. The quests were a chore and did not immerse you into the storyline of the world (was there even an overarching plot? If so I never found one...), so all that was left was....oh yeah grinding.

Star Wars Galaxies, well all I can say is this: It has potential, very little content but a LOT of potential. More missions that actually has an overarching plot, yet again, would help. The missions that I saw felt random and you had no reason to do them outside of gaining credits.

City of Heroes was fun while it lasted then it occured to me that all you ever did was fight street thugs and villains, cool concept but needs more content and more stuff to do. The characters were rich and vibrant. The powers were awesome, but overall it got tedious because you did the same thing over and over again with no breaks. No crafting, no missions that took a break from the fighting etc.

Lineage II.... um open PvP is cool and all for some, but if I wanted that sort of play I would play a FPS game. If I am playing a ROLE-playing game I want there to be in-character reasons for fighting other players (maybe I insulted their honor, or attacked one the NPC's in their area causing them to have to stand up to me or whatever else). That and the botters, adena farmers and such was very much annoying. Also the fact that items dropped randomly when you died and someone else could just happen along and pick it up was very uncool. Ok so I just spent the last hour or so getting the money for my new uber sword, I go out and fight a mob...then I die and the sword drops and someone else now gets rewarded for being in the right pllace at the right time for my hard work....um no. A Faction vs Faction or Race vs Race sort of PvP would make this game a lot more enjoyable.

Anarchy Online felt to me a lot like Star Wars Galaxies...only with worse graphics and seemingly no direction what so ever to the missions...

Dark Age of Camelot. This game I like. Yeah my current character is low level but I had a higher level character before I quit playing so I could play FFXI which I had been waiting to come out for a while. Once I realized what a big mistake I made I came back to the game and am enjoying it immensly. Yeah the character/monster/spell graphics have a lot to be desired but it seems that will be fixed in the next retail expansion. The quests are fun and have a storyline to them that makes you feel like you are part of the world. You feel like you have to get more experience so you cna help your realm beat back the others or even conquer them. The class diversity is amazing, and having 3 realms all with different classes and races gives it a huge replayability factor. I will be playing this while waiting for WoW to come out. The quests give substantial rewards, in the form of stuff you can actually use, decent monetary rewards, and exp rewards.

I will also be trying out for betas in other games and trying some other MMO's that are out there, but this will be the main game I play until WoW's release.

OK on to the main event. FFXI vs WoW.

FFXI was a fun and immersive game at first. The missions you do for your nation had a full storyline that was considered the 'main' plot. The quests have a storyline as well and seem to be side plots that sometimes add to the main plot. The ability to switch jobs and play something different without having to make a new character was awesome as well, and the subjobs that added to your main job is genius. The graphics are pretty to look at but a little dull in the color department (meaning they used a dull color palette).

My main problems? A lot of it comes from the player base. You HAVE to have THIS item to be uber. YOu HAVE to play THIS sub job with that main job. There is no room for experimentation in this ame because if you do the other players will snub you and you are without a party, and you will never find one. This sort of elitest attitude is moronic and insipid IMHO. I understand that in order to be the 'best' at what you do you have to do certain things but damn let people do what they want and have fun instead of being a bunch of uptight b****es. This would not have been a problem if you could solo in the game...which you absolutly canNOT do. So you have to play a cookie cutter mold and scrap what you think may be a cool character, even if that character would not be welcome in parties you can't play it, because you can't solo.

The prices for things is extraordinate and that is also because of the player base. If things were cheaper the leveling process would be quicker, faster and easier. Why? Because the need to camp would be minimized. Instead you could wander around and fight mobs as you came to them. The reason this is not possible is because the prices for potions, ethers, and juices is too high for that sort of play. If the prices were lower this sort of play would be viable. Mages could get their MP back in combat by using ethers, and while moving to the next mob could use juices. Those taking damage could use potions in combat and take some stress off the healers so they could use some of their other spells. So this leads to campin which then means that very few zones actually see use, which leads to overcrowding and the fighting of the same mobs over and over and over....more grinding...ugh.

Also at higher levels you have to farm for a week or so for equipment that you might use for a couple of days (this is taking into consideration actually gaining levels those days IF you can get a party). So basically you are farming, which by the way is a huge chore, instead of actually playing.

The quests are laughable outside of the fact that they have a storyline to them. You get no xp rewards, and the rewards you DO get are nowhere near what they should be by the time you can DO the damn quests to begin with. Say you get a level 1 quest that nets you a nice piece of level 1 armor. You won't be able to actually do the quest until you are level 6 or 7 because of what you have to kill or the area you have to go in. By that time you have better armor available to you. The level 1 is just an example and not a truism necessararly. But at higher levels it is a truism (Warp II scroll and the teleport scroll quests come to mind).

The classes/jobs are unbalanced and are in need of some serious tweaking. For the most part unless you are a Warrior, Paladin, White Mage, Bard or Black Mage, and at higher levels a Red Mage you have a hard time finding parties (this goes back to the player base issues). Also in order to get 60% of the jobs you have to do quests, which is all well and good. You get those quests at level 30. You then have to do a quest for your preferred job that is in no way doable until you are level 60! Unless you have high level friends there is no way you can do an Advanced Job quest at 30. So why make them available at 30? Then if you get lucky enough to get that Advanced Job your leveling process STARTS ALL OVER! My solution? Make all jobs available at level 1. They are all different enough that this is a doable thing. Now I know where they got the idea for the advanced jobs. It is a classic thing from FFI where you did a trial quest for the dragon king and got updated classes, but you didn't have to start leveling all over again.

Also the time you have to put into the game is ridiculous. If I have something else I have to do on a given day such as school/work/kids/reality...you know real life stuff, I may as well forget playing FFXI because I won't get anything done. Why? Because it takes an entire DAY to get ANYthing done, and feel like something was accomplished. Thsi includes farming, crafting, or getting into a group, finding a camp spot, and leveling. Hell levleing IS an an all day affair. 1 to 2 hrs to find a group. Almost an hour to get to a zone AND find a viable camp spot, and another 15 minutes or so to get the group ready and to pull a mob. It then take 5-10 MINUTES! to kill ONE! mob.... rinse...repeat....ugh.

Dieing is an excercise in frustration in this game. You lose a lot of xp and possibly your level. You have to wait for long periods of time if you want a raise or take that same amount of time coming back to your group from your homepoint.....ugh. More waiting.

In short FFXI is all about waiting and time consumption staring at the monitor bored.

OK on WoW. The graphics are stunning (the cinematics and screenshots do it no justice), and some may not like the style of graphics that WoW uses. Well everyone has their preference to what they like their graphics to look like. See I personally from what I have seen don't like the EQ II graphics because they look like plastic dolls. I prefer a graphical flavor that LOOKS like it is supposed to be a FANTASY game, not a fantasy game trying to look like REAL LIFE. If I want real life fantasy I'd join one of the Fantasy Ren-Faire troupes or Live Action D&D troupes. But graphics don't make a game, that is the last on my list of things that is necassery to make a good game.

The game itself is immersive and fun to be in. The quests make you feel like you are doing something in the game world. They have AWESOME rewards, questing is the main way you level up in fact! No more GRINDING! YAY! You also get decent monetary rewards, and sometimes some really cool items! If you can't use an item...well sell it for yet another decent payout.

Because of the rewards and items you never find that you don't have enough money for new gear when you reach a level where it's required. No more FARMING! YAY!

You can solo in WoW with any class. Granted some quests require a group but it's not hard nor does it take a long time to cobble one together. Just grab anyone else doing the quest and there you go. No one doing that particular quest? Then do the ones you CAN solo until you can get into a group. No more waiting for HOURS for a group! YAY!

The fights are quick and are over in about 10-15 seconds TOPS! Which means you are constantly moving and killing things, no camping, in fact it is not a good idea to camp as usually the quests you are doing require you to move around quite a bit. Downtime is non-existant, and the little bit of downtime you do get can be reduced through food and water which is dropped regulrly, can be bought cheaply, or you cna ask a mage to make you some. Healing and mana potions are proliferic thus reducing downtime need even more. In this game you keep moving and keep doing!

If you die you don't lose xp (you can but it's optional. You talk top a spirit healer in the graveyard that you appear in to be ressurected right then and there.), instead you do a VERY quick corpse run (you move twice as fast) as a ghost. Yes it CAN get annoying if you are dieing a lot in a certain area, BUT you won't lose xp and you won't lose your level. You can keep going back to your corpse and trying again and again until you get what you want to do done.

The classes are all completely different from one another and even have abilities that other MMO's ddon't give them. Rogues use combos in combat instead of just standing behind the target and hitting their Backstab/Sneak Attack button whenever it pops. Paladins have party buffing auras, Warriors have different stances and combat styles, Mages can specialize in specific forms of magic, Warlocks have demonic pets and can cast debuffs/dd/healing AND get a ressurection spell. I could go on here but you can go to the WoW Beta site to see more for yourself. Also this whole idea of "This race makes the best in this class' idea is gone. Instead the races have unique abilities that make them different and otherwise a Orc Warrior is the same as a Human Warrior. So race is a matter of preference and character rather than power-gaming. I like this mainly because I hate cookie cutter characters that result from power gaming.

Simply put WoW is you are constantly doing things and you are always on the move. If you want a break you can craft, or even go to a tavern (they are actually USED in this game by the players!) and socialize!

WoW is a refreshing breeze of fresh air in a market that is rapidly running out of ideas to keep it fresh. Some may not agree with me, but as I said I cannot do this sort of thing without being biased.

Just my 2 copper/gil/adena/influence/whatever.

Hehe well I said that *I* could not make a comparison without being biased. Yes there can still be comparisons on a level of the genre staples...but other than that it's a perception and preference of play style. I don't like waiting and staring at a monitor all day bored out of my skull when playing a game. If I am playing a game I should constantly be doing something instead of sitting around waiting. If I wanted to do that I'd go sit in my recliner and wait for....well something lol.

If I am playing a GAME I want to be entertained, and sitting and doing nothing is not my idea of being entertained. Seeing and fighting the same mob over and over again for 50+ levels is not my idea of being entertained. Being excluded from being able to progress in athe game because other people don't liek what I chose for my character class is not my idea of being entertained.

My idea of being entertained is constantly doing something, seeing new mobs in new areas and being awed when I see a new area and being initially scared of the new set of higher level mobs in the area. Not thinking to myself "Oh it's a crab again...ok whatever"

I have played FFXI long enough to know it's not my style of game because all I do is sit and stare at the monitor for hours being bored, and then fighting the same crabs for 50+ levels. WoW so far has floored me. I am constantly doing something, and every time I enter a new area I look around in awe and then immediatly wonder in what horrible ways my character will die from the mobs in the area. DAoC also has me constantly doing stuff and wondering what mobs will maim my character horrifically if I stray too far.

So for ME these two games fit my play style where FFXI does not. So I pointed out that my view would be biased because it fits my play style and what I like to do in a game, and that may not be everyone's cup of tea. Some people may enjoy staring at the monitor doing nothing for hours and then fighting the same crab for 50+ levels. I don't know.

well... just so I don't get called a "fan-boy" I will lsit my problems with FFXI

1) S-E doesn't care aobut NA players.

S-E bans NA palyers for Botting, yet some of the "botters" that are japanese on my server and have been doing it for over a year - still are around.

They also let Japanese claim HNM (very rare - 1 time a day spawns) monsters and "kite" them or sleep them for 8 -12 hours so the mob is killed in the japanese prime time and NA's can't get to it anymore for a long long time.

2) To many melee

more than 1/2 the jobs in the game are melees, and tehy are dang cool. Problme is, most parites are 2/6 or 1/6 melee....so if 1/2 the population is playing melee...thats alot of people sitting on thier ***

3) melees in the end-game are useless

the gods that are the Ranger job assside....melees aren't needed to kill the games toughtest monsters. In some cases, you have to tell melees NOT to come to a fight because they simply drain resources

4) non-simotanouse release

The japanese keep getting stuff before us. The resent expansion was avaialbe to htem 7-10 days before NA. So they got to go out and kill the new mobs, explore areas and craft the new gear first.

5) linkshell system

I'm not big on the fact people can hop from "guild" to "guild" at thier wimm.. Very hard to get to know people that way as people come in and out. Fo a game that is suppose to be about community...this makes it hard to bond with people.

6) equipement

sometimes, there seems to be no rymn or reason a job can use a peice and another can't. Sometimes, a peice can be used by all but ONE melee job...or all but ONE mage job...jsut stupid.


I could probablly come up with more, but I'll stop there. I'll admit that I'm a little burnt on the game myself. But I din't find any of your reason terrible valid...even thinking back to to when I first started the game.

I got EQII beta now....it has it's own set of problems.

In the end...there will NEVER be the perfect MMORPG. It's all about game balance, when you decide to do one thing...it will make something less viable - it's game balance.

Why do people feel the need to dig up month old topics. Especially this one.

I'm going to have fun with this *cracks neck*



He's being fair enough. By the way, do you think its kind of odd that the game "begins" at a certain level? To me (as all games should be) the game should begin the moment you turn it on. As for getting level 40 in 2 weeks, the only way that is possible is hours a day every single day that is unless you don't have a sub job, which is impossible then.



You may not be kicked for having the "l337" armor but you will be criticized.

"Oh my god! You don't have sniper rings?" *sends a tell to party leader* "look at his stuff. He's going to bring down exp"

I have had this happen, only with a rdm and missing some spells I really don't need. Mostly nukes anyways.



Agreed to a point. The elitist attitude is really awful in FFXI. Ever tried talking to a high level that doesn't know you when you are a low level? They will ignore you every chance they get. Why? Simply because they have been so stressed out by getting high that they think you will be asking for hand outs. High levels never want to help unless they get something in return. Lord help you if you ask for help on a genkai or an AF quest. They fear their exp lost, moreso they you getting your items/quest done.



Just because its the name of the game doesn't mean we have to like it. That's why we are here and not playing FFXI. By the way, only 2 classes, eh? So you are saying that 2 out of 14 jobs can solo? WoW gives every class the ability to handle themselves, not 2.



Hmmm, Melee with melee and mage with mage. Some combinations...
No matter how many combos you put up, melees are more welcomed with a warrior sub and will be picked over any other combo. Provoke has that effect on people since gamers usually are paranoid if a add comes in. I'm so glad WoW gives ever class the ability to handle themselves if the **** hits the fan.

Lord help you if you are a mage. White mage sub will be over all unless you are a white mage (which will be a black mage sub) or a red mage (they have cure spells already) Anything else will be looked upon for a second then will be passed aside till the party leader gets his/her "uber" combo.



Once again agreed to a point. Others will expect you, as a high level, to have the good gear. Good gear is not basic stuff. Good gear is anything with 1 or 2 point boosts into one stat that costs ungodly amounts of money. In order to get that money, you must farm. Not a problem, right? Well it wouldn't be if:

A) Everybody would stop farming in the same place.
B) Everybody would stop undercutting prices.
C) If every item wasn't so crappy money wise.
D) If you can sell to NPCs for a decent price.
E) If drops dropped more often.
F) If the economy stops revolving around NM drops.



The original poster was talking about rewards and the level you must do the quest. Not everybody has hours upon hours to wait for a party to do a certain quest. You think somebody is going to do a quest with you if its not essential? No one will make a party just to do SOB quests nor will they party with you to do the Utsusemi quest in Norg. Unless you are doing a genkai or an AF quest (which some need more then just lots of people. Paladin AF 3 needs tons of lv 60s. Don't get me started on Whm AF...), you will not recieve help.

On a side note not everybody get a LS with evenly level members. People will be either to low to help or to high to even bother doing an annoying quest again.



This is a MMO like any other. You camp, you pull, you kill and you spend hours rinsing and repeating while getting money to spend on things to kill. You also need food. Lord help you if you do not carry food post 30. Potions are hella expensive and would have been very useful given if it was cheaper.
By the way, if all you are going to do is kill for the next 5 hours, can SE at least make it fun. I found myself sleeping during EXP parties... as a red mage. Sorry but the process is so damn boring. By the way, who has 5 hours to spend on exp parties? (trying to make a point here...)



Lets see what a person needs at lv 30s...

White mage - Erase - 300,000 gil
Any melee - Sniper ring - 200,000 gil each - Peacock Charm - 5,000,000 gil
Red Mage - Dispel - 80~100,000 gil

Riiiiiiiight, this stuff is hella cheap...



Quests = Fed Ex Quests. Nothing but low level equipment as rewards, no exp so lost leveling there and the teduim of waiting for certain items to drop (CURSE YOU PAPYRUS!!!).

Only rewards through quests are RSE Gear which will be replaced in 5 levels top and you have to wait for certain times of the WEEK and summons which is utterly useless for people who are not summoners.



People want the big 4: tank/melee/heal/nuke. This lasts until lv 40 when people want the big 2: Bard and Red Mage. You cannot get high in levels until you have a bard or a red mage. Sorry but it sucks that out of the 14 classes in the game, I must rely on 2. Granted I was red mage but I hate how people love to ***** me for all I'm worth, tell me what I can and cannot not do then beg and plee for me not to leave when I'm sick of my team mates. Guess it goes both ways, eh?



This is proof that you are not over lv 60. Any former FFXI gamer knows that you lose 10% of the amount you need to level from what you have currently. If you lose more then what you have then you delevel. On top of that, anything over 1000 exp lost is at least 15 minutes of lost work. This would be okay if delevel was nonexistant.


I'll tell you this: WoW is better then FFXI. My opinions, yes but not because it's "easier". Trust me when I say it gets hard. The game is simply more playable then FFXI. Thats what I want in a game, to be playable. I spent my time in FFXI (55 days) and I hated it since lv 20. I played with the thought that it will get better at level 50 when it was worse. Anyways, I have nothing else to add here. No ressurecting old thread again, please ^^

I have a little problem with people posting criteques about FFXI who never really made it far into the game. Probably in much the same way you hate people who said they left WoW 2 months ago.

I've seen people post here with level 70 characters or whatever. They've gotten sick of the game too. In fact, the ratio of people who even have one thing to say nice about the game to none at all is about 1:5.

First... you need to undersatnd who made this game. Japanese. They are community based gamers. Everything revolves around community...EXP, quests, missions, etc... this plays into alot of people's complaints...such as needing high levels to compelte quests.....no....you don't...you jsut need to bring alot of people w/ you. On to my opinions.

And should that really be necessary? Is a game fun when there is not a GD thing you can do without a well-balanced group?


You hang out on forums WAYYYYYYY to much. I've played with plenty of level 70+ DRKs whodon't even have a haurberk. I have yet to see a party who kick somebody for not having a piece of "l33t" equipement...I see plenty of ninja's without hairpin...which is argualbly a "standard" peice of gear...oh...for the record

I don't play the game personally, but I have a friend who does, and doesn't read forums, and told me he's witnessed this personally.


BST and NIN can solo.
Let's see..lets list all the viable job combinations ofr a party that people will take
< list of 29 combinations >

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there 15 classes? Doesn't that mean there are 15*14=210 job sets to draw from? That means you're dealing with respective percentages of 13.3 and 13.8
I personally would want to hit at least, oh, FIFTEEN percent before I could claim that soloing is viable and many class combinations are reasonable?


Some combination DO make charaters weaker...thus...why people don't want them.....the very nature of putting those to together makes it weak, and it makes sense.

Isn't it better that you at least have the OPTION to diversify your charater with a subjob.,,,rather then jsut being a plain WAR?

Do you see the contradiction in these two statements? You don't have an option. Your listing below averaged less than two choices per class, and that's with dragoon pulling up the average considerably. I count at least 5 classes where you don't even offer a second option. No, I'm sorry, there are no choices in FFXI - even fewer than games with single classes because they eliminate other choices elsewhere.


Just admit that you don't like having to do things in a party? cause thats your real issue. I've been in great linkshells since I was 14 and nver had to bad of a problem getting what I needed at the level I needed them.

I've played EQ for years as a cleric. I know what it is to have group dependency. But I also know what it is to completely neglect your other obligations in life and have all 24 hours each day at your disposal...I've since learned that isn't feasible, hence why I no longer want to play a game where I have to sit around and wait for a certain mix of players to come together, and then watch it fall apart 10 minutes later because 3 of the original members ran out of time. Maybe you've got great support from your linkshell, but you seem to be the exception to the rule.


Stop right there. First...you want to solo quest - thats your problem. Again....think community game.....you don't solo stuff unless you do so many levels after it's inteded. Again. this isn't a FFXI only complaint...EQ, EQOA, DAoC, all had this as well.

The example was given at level one...so I'm supposed to find a party AT LEVEL ONE?? I haven't even learned how to turn on attack and I'm supposed to be recruiting people to help me. Yeah, right.

And to the extent that it exists here, yes it is an FFXI-only complaint. EQ I could at least do my low-level quests on my own, and solo a little bit, and just generally be useful for myself. There's community and then there's total dependency.

<quote>Also the time you have to put into the game is ridiculous. </quote>

stop and think about what you just said...and then think about MMORPGs in general. nuff said.

At least I managed to reach the level cap in Everquest in 100 days played. I think 100 is more than sufficient to be able to start doing the top-level stuff.

I'm 28, married, have a full time job, and several hobbies. Now look at my levels and tell me this game demands to much time to succeed.

You also cite that you have 180 days played. How long has this game been out? That means you have averaged how many hours per day playing it? If the answer is more than 4, then yes, you have been spending more time at it then someone with a family, full-time job, and hobbies they actually find time for would reasonably accomplish.

Every WHM at 25 has raise. Post 25...you shouldn't be waiting at all for a raise.

...but you said that white mages aren't necessary for everything. Why assume I'm going to be with one?

Maybe that yur problem with FFXI...you aren't willing to put forth the effort to be a part of the game, rather thatn jsut being in it.

It's hard to be a part OF the game until you spend days upon days in it. Since this apparently a point of contention that you both claim you do and don't do, tell me, at what point did you start to feel like a part of the game?


I don't even play FFXI. I heard about it on the forums here, but my own experience has been limited to watching my friend play. He gave me a chance to start a new character one time, and both playing and watching, it is quite honestly the absolute most boring game I have ever played. I didn't even get into the major issues that the other players seem to bring up about it.

So, you can attack my ethos for that all you want, but I have zero interest in ever picking up this game.

If you are hardcore about a game, it definitely is possible. In the two weeks since the beta 2 server has come out, I know people with 6 days played or more.

I wouldn't exactly call it healthy to do that though, unless you're unemployed and waiting for something to come through.

FFXI puzzles me.

Uhh maybe for ninja its cheap but for my SAM my lvl 23 great katana was 32k gil. Thats just for one low lvl basic weapon and it just got worse from there. And about the game starting at lvl 40? My game sorta ended at lvl 30 something. Hours of sitting around waiting for a party just so i can get in the party and people not realize what a Sam is supposed to do. I left the game at lvl 52 and im never going back :P

Sniper Ring 600K each
Peacock Charm 1500K
Merman's Gorget 150K
Life Belt 100K......

took you 8 month to get your drg to lvl 56 and farm your money to buy all the expansive stuffs, and at the end you found out that drgs are not wanted in pts ............. priceless

for everything else there's Wow

I think the big complaint about the JP's getting the game first is because then they get a headstart on the NM's and they also get to set the prices on anything new that comes from the new things. Also once any MMO game pretty much forces you to find a static party to efficiently level they've failed in the purpose they were made for. If i wanted to play with the same people everyday i'd play diablo 2 or something like that.