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The "art" of Melee DPS.Follow

#1 May 16 2006 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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A good friend of mine where sat in Torigan mines today, talking as we tried to get the drop for his 40 Bst spell and he was lementing that he had neglected to group at lower levels and he was not 100% sure on how the best way to play a good DPS class in a group.

Since he is a long time lurker and i am a serial spammer i said i would post the question and he could read up on it when he was at "work"

So from a beasty perspective spacifically and a DPS in general what are the rulez 101 on group play.

stuff like dealing with rampage and other such melee based goodies that us chanters just ignore.
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#2 May 16 2006 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
enrage happens at 9% on any melee mob over level 51. turn off attack before it if you are attacking from the front, or the tank has ****** aggro.

from a group perspective, rampage can be ignored.

besides that pretty much just melee and nuke. don't dot in a group unless it's a really low dps group, because the mob will probably die too fast.
#3 May 16 2006 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Especially as a BST, pet push is a major issue and something you need to learn to control ASAP. I soloed until about 50 with my bst and it really shocked me as to how bad it was. Main thing to remember is to position yourself on the opposite side of your pet. Other than that a lot of it has to depend on group makeup to control the push.

As far as agro goes, try to stay at max melee range most of the time.

Bsts can be a great off tank but make sure you let the chanter do his job if you have one. I have PO'd more then my fair share of chanters because they didn't bother to call the mezz and I broke it when I went to offtank.

I was a little nervous when I started grouping with my bst because I was so high in lvl for never having grouped with him before so I completely understand the question.

Anything more specific, feel free to ask.
#4 May 16 2006 at 7:12 PM Rating: Default
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222 posts
Just my Smiley: twocents

Beastlords suck, I avoid grouping with them as much as possible.

DpS 101 as done by Komzur:

If you aren't the tank, you (and pet) are ALWAYS BEHIND the mob, no exception.

If the mob gets pushed into a wall, BACK OFF and let the tank reposition it.

If you get aggro, TURN OFF ATTACK and wait for aggro to go away, don't use some other form of aggro redux (like evade, FD) or else you could be releasing the mob on other people than the tank!
~ Advanced; only for the skilled DpS; if you steal aggro off the tank, move to MAX MELEE range, but don't move the mob!

AoE's suck, get used to it. Rampage sucks, get used to dying.
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Basically here's my rule of thumb, if the mob AoE is equal to or lesser than 2500, a 600Hp HoT run constantly will keep you on your feet, or a 1200Hp heal every minute. You can handle this with about 5-6k HP buffed.

If the AoE is greater than 2500, a 1k HoT or 2k heal each minute will do alright on the average. I wouldn't suggest taking on any 4k AoE's until you have close to 10k Hp as a DpS class, or you're going to be more trouble to keep alive than you are worth.

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Lastly, when in doubt BACK OUT! If you are getting low on Hp, the healer is LoM, BACK OUT of the fight, recover a bit, and don't be an anchor for the ship! (remember to wait a few before you sit down to ensure you don't get sit-aggro and f*** everyone up!)

P.S.~ Did I mention I hate Beastlords?

Edit Notes: If you see any more typos, let me know! Smiley: lol

Edited, Tue May 16 20:15:55 2006 by Komzur
#5 May 16 2006 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
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If you are grouping and worried about pet push, don't buff your warder with it's proc. If you don't have another slower in the group be prepared to play that role. I agree with the comment of not DoTing; heck other than slowing, you'll probably not casting anything in groups. Our DoTs are rather poor and you're wasting melee DPS while getting one off.

Also, if you're not tanking, keep away from the proccing weapons and stay 2hb if your tank has aggro management issues...
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#6 May 16 2006 at 8:52 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
keep away from the proccing weapons


Good idea, excepting Ethereal Strike (has a -200 hate effect after the stun) which can be bought from DoN merchants Vampiric Lichen Stone 180 Radiants -or- Bloodlust Lichen Stone 180 Ebons.

I recommend it for getting started as a DpS since BST don't have aggro management skills like rogues or monks or rangers (at least none I know of, correct me if they do have an aggro redux measure of some kind).

Quote:
stay 2hb if your tank has aggro management issues...


2 Handed weapons develop more aggro over time than dual wielding. Here's why;

Weapon hate production is based SOLELY on the damage potential of that weapon (procs not inclusive to this).

The damage bonus is a factor in it.

Offhand weapons do not gain a damage bonus (even though it is listed on your item window)

2 Handed weapons have much higher damage bonus than 1 handed (generally speaking).

Just ask around, you'll find alot of tanks prefer 2 handers to maintain aggro in a long fight, others will say dual wield (but that's because of hate procs). As a beastlord, you would want to dual wield to NOT get aggro, using weapons with Hate Redux effects or other low aggro procs (if any at all).
#7 May 16 2006 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Just ask around, you'll find alot of tanks prefer 2 handers to maintain aggro in a long fight, others will say dual wield (but that's because of hate procs). As a beastlord, you would want to dual wield to NOT get aggro, using weapons with Hate Redux effects or other low aggro procs (if any at all).

any tank who says they want a 2hander because it's better aggro loses at life.
#8 May 16 2006 at 10:25 PM Rating: Decent
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132 posts
Another thing that you can do if you have the space on an aready crowded screen is open up yet another window and, set its filter to show only NPC Rampage, Flury, Enrage.
This box doesnt have to be very big. It only needs to be big enough that when the NPC does do any of those things it will fill up fast with red numbers.
You will get used to it being being there and know exactly when the NPC starts and ends its spree of destruction.
You can even change the color to something uncommon to what you are used to seeing flash away during combat.
Oh and like prety much everyone else has already stated .. when that first message appears in your new handy box .. STOP SWINGING.
#9 May 17 2006 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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The only thing i Query is the bit about Procing weapons, If my tank can't hold aggro with all the tools he has at his disposal now just because the ranger proc's a 150dd 3 times a fight i want a new tank not a new Ranger.
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Jarkeld Hammerhiem Lvl 36 Paladin/Lvl 30 Armourer
Lestril Hammerhiem Lvl 40 Monk/Lvl 28 Provisioner Blackburrow server
Iaedian Tailchaser lvl 60 Fury/36 Jeweler. Proud member of <Bane> Crushbone server

Your mind is like a Parachute, it only works if it's open.
#10 May 17 2006 at 12:18 AM Rating: Decent
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1,638 posts
CS procs though are just plain stupid on non tanks IMHO......
#11 May 17 2006 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good
csiv procs on a nontank are just asking for trouble.
#12 May 17 2006 at 11:51 AM Rating: Default
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222 posts
What what what? Sir groogle responded! Awesome, I love his fire, it always burns me the best! Smiley: lol

At any rate, yes Sir G, you are correct. My implication of hate produced from weapons is taken from this LINK if you would like to read it for yourself.

I dare not reproach Sir Groogle for fear of more fiery lashings!

[sm](/whisper ~ But for those who are curious about the mechanics behind melee hate generation, visit the link I added, and judge for yourselves.)[/sm]

#13 May 17 2006 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
1h's allow you to have another proc, which is like 2400 more hate per minute, brodda's post only deals with pure melee damage.
#14 May 17 2006 at 1:12 PM Rating: Default
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222 posts
Not to denounce your majesty too much, but can I promote you to captain obvious? Just for today?

Quote:
Weapon hate production is based SOLELY on the damage potential of that weapon (procs not inclusive to this).


Quote:
brodda's post only deals with pure melee damage.


At any rate, back on topic.

Does anyone recall the name of the Augment that increases a pet's power? If someone could, please link it. I don't know if Tarv's friend could use it as a Beastlord, but thought it might be of interest.

P.S.~ Groogle you have 109 posts to rate down to get rid of me bro, keep that fire cookin! Lol, If the emporer believes me to be his enemy, all he has to do is ask, and I will terminate my EQ Forums postings.. Hail to Emporer Groogle!
#15 May 17 2006 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
I hadn't rated you down until you mentioned it. too many people see a post slip to default and assume it's me >.<

I assumed you were too lazy and/or stupid to read that part of his post, since you tried to use it in an argument that 2hs could be better aggro than 1hs...
#16 May 17 2006 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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222 posts
Groogle, you are the best at catching small discrepencies in posts. Don't mind me, I just like to pick fights I can't win. Smiley: grin

Not that I care about Karma really since I quit EQ this month, but seriously this rating system F***s with my head. I only respond with information I believe to be true enough, and presumed that since you were the one disecting it that you must've been my stalker. /sorry 'bout that mate.

Seriously though, whoever the n00btard is that is rating down informative posts, please at least have the balls to post the *correct* information that incites your action, or explain it.

I do my best to help out the community here with information, and I have yet to see anyone give a breakdown on DpS methodology contrary to what I have posted, excepting the obvious dual wielding proc out aggroing 2H, but again that was not just focused on raid tanking and warriors, but tanks in general. Not everyone has aggro procs, or is a dual wielding tank. For knight classes, 2HS is MUCH greater aggro than 1HS for example.

Point being, I'll refrain from retalliating against my skeletons, and revert to lurker status until my premium runs out. It is just very disappointing to see myself turning this thread into a vendetta, so my apologies for that. I hope whoever DID rate me down takes the time to correct the information that they thought was so horrible, instead of what I see as just trashing on a decent informative post.

Thanks all for the community time, short lived as it may have been, Brudish, Groogle, Elorian, Reyla, Kelti, and all the other Alla forum family; you guys were an inspiration, and indeed a service to this site and the many gamers here.

/camp
#17 May 17 2006 at 4:08 PM Rating: Default
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53 posts
Just a replay to Komzur's note about all but tank being behind the mob, This is true except in certain grps. As a part time rogue i cant stand this! I have top 3 dps in game AS LONG as i can position as needed behind the mob. So when theres a vah shir bst and pet, ogres, etc and i cant position , I cant achieve top dps. Keep this in mind if u grp with a rogue =)
#18 May 17 2006 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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1,638 posts
that is why shrink is pretty much a must =p
#19 May 18 2006 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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Diamond Prism of Companionship - 760 points in North Ro LDoN
#20 May 18 2006 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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There's also an aug that drops from one of the GoD zones and there's the DoN range item that's not too shabby, think it's level 70 required, tho.

As a beastlord in groups, you are going to get aggro, no two ways about it. Most often you'll be replacing a shammy so you'll have to slow. Beastlords are like bards. They don't do any one thing particularly well, but they do lots of things passably well.

Don't use 2hb unless it's a huge upgrade over your 1h set up. Leave the 2hb to the monks, they have the abilities to actually make it cause some damage. Stay away from stun procs, they'll get you killed. Find some lifetap augs, you can heal yourself up while still doing dps. Most times, you want to fight at the back, but the sides will do just as well. Beast's pet do push some, not as much as everyone thinks, tho :p

oh, and I quit using dot's long ago... I use my two best nukes and my DoDh pet. They great thing about the pet is that it lasts 18 seconds, does about 4500 damage in that time and when it poofs, all aggro is gone.

Beastlords are very remarkable up to about 65 and Time, after that the dps drops off compared to other dps classes. Our pet very rarely survive AE's unless you want to take the time to heal it.
#21 May 21 2006 at 3:00 AM Rating: Default
38 posts
Being a BST is hard work.
You have to balance out dps with agro. As said in a previous post you "will" get aggro at some point.
I am in a raiding guild and 99% of the time i put my pet away when hitting end encounters. It dies so quick its a waste of mana.

If my cat is out and fighting, i tend to look where other pet users are and balance out the pets / players ratio on the flanks of mobs. I almost never go behind a mob, even in a group set up, bad habits are hard to break. The only exception of course is when a raid leader calls for a mob to be pushed / positioned in a certain place / direction.
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#22 May 21 2006 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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50 posts
Quote:
enrage happens at 9% on any melee mob over level 51. turn off attack before it if you are attacking from the front,


Some further notes:

1) Not all mobs over 51 enrage.

2) If you can stun the mob as it falls below 10% it will not enrage until the stun wears off. Chain stuns until it dies and it will never enrage.

3) Enrage lasts ~10 seconds.
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