Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
Reply To Thread

New Changes to stats and Battle SystemFollow

#27 May 26 2017 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
****
5,053 posts
Ummm in ffxi you could put 5 or 6 things in one macro so yes it worked exactly as i described. Instead of having to memorize 15 abilities and the order to put em in when you can put 5 in one macro and thus only have to worry about 3 buttons
#28 May 26 2017 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
****
5,053 posts
Ummm in ffxi you could put 5 or 6 things in one macro so yes it worked exactly as i described. Instead of having to memorize 15 abilities and the order to put em in when you can put 5 in one macro and thus only have to worry about 3 buttons
#29 May 26 2017 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
****
5,726 posts
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Instead of having to memorize 15 abilities and the order to put em in when you can put 5 in one macro and thus only have to worry about 3 buttons

That's only true in theory. In practice it rarely worked that way. Admittedly I haven't played FFXI in many years so maybe it's different now, but at 75 I only had a few macros across all jobs that actually chained multiple abilities. Mostly people used the extra macro lines for gear swaps, not to chain abilities like that.
____________________________
75 Rabbit/75 Sheep/75 Coeurl/75 Eft/75 Raptor/75 Hippogryph/75 Puk
75 Scorpion/75 Wamoura/75 Pixie/75 Peiste/64 Sabotender
51 Bird/41 Mandragora/40 Bee/37 Crawler/37 Bat

Items no one cares about: O
Missions no one cares about: O
Crafts no one cares about: O
#30 May 26 2017 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
****
5,053 posts
what about a macro to throw u p all your att buffs (berserk, warcry, last resort etc etc) before unleashing a devastating weapon skill?


Or what thief didnt have an SATAWS macro?

or a macro for divine seal Cure tucked in a corner for "just in case"?

#31 May 26 2017 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
***
3,719 posts
For all practical purposes, an FFXI macro did one thing. There were probably some gear swaps involved in that one thing and maybe a short message depending on what the thing was, but they did one thing. If you needed to do more than one thing, you needed more than one macro. And that describes basically every job above level 10.

The fact is, if you wanted to actually be good, your macros got complicated. Like.... really complicated. I've seen large flowcharts drawn for macro planning depending on the job, mostly because each macro only had 6 lines. Want to do things without macros? Welcome to Menu Purgatory, your one stop shop for soul crushing menus, scrolling patterns, and arrow key sequence memorization.
btw this is why we use hotbars for things now, just sayin'

So COULD you put 5 abilities in one macro? I guess. Is that a good idea by any rational measurement? Absolutely not.

Quote:
what about a macro to throw u p all your att buffs (berserk, warcry, last resort etc etc) before unleashing a devastating weapon skill?

Separate buttons because gearswaps exist. Also all those things are rarely on the exact same cooldown and as soon as a job ability fails to activate because it's on cooldown, the whole macro grinds to a halt.

Quote:
Or what thief didnt have an SATAWS macro?

The one that didn't want to accidentally fire an attack round between macro wait states ruining their big hit. SA, TA, and WS are on minimum 3 macros. This got more and more true the higher level you got. My THF right now typically stabs at least 6 or 7 time per attack round and with enough haste it's actually super hard to know when an attack round ends and the next one begins.

Quote:
or a macro for divine seal Cure tucked in a corner for "just in case"?

Maybe... it's a lot safer to put DS on its own macro since your go-to cures are almost certainly already on macros of their own and now you're not having to wait a full second between DS and casting your cure.


Edited, May 26th 2017 3:14pm by Callinon
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#32 May 26 2017 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
****
5,053 posts
Callinon wrote:
For all practical purposes, an FFXI macro did one thing. There were probably some gear swaps involved in that one thing and maybe a short message depending on what the thing was, but they did one thing. If you needed to do more than one thing, you needed more than one macro. And that describes basically every job above level 10.

The fact is, if you wanted to actually be good, your macros got complicated. Like.... really complicated. I've seen large flowcharts drawn for macro planning depending on the job, mostly because each macro only had 6 lines. Want to do things without macros? Welcome to Menu Purgatory, your one stop shop for soul crushing menus, scrolling patterns, and arrow key sequence memorization.
btw this is why we use hotbars for things now, just sayin'

So COULD you put 5 abilities in one macro? I guess. Is that a good idea by any rational measurement? Absolutely not.

Quote:
what about a macro to throw u p all your att buffs (berserk, warcry, last resort etc etc) before unleashing a devastating weapon skill?

Separate buttons because gearswaps exist. Also all those things are rarely on the exact same cooldown and as soon as a job ability fails to activate because it's on cooldown, the whole macro grinds to a halt.

Quote:
Or what thief didnt have an SATAWS macro?

The one that didn't want to accidentally fire an attack round between macro wait states ruining their big hit. SA, TA, and WS are on minimum 3 macros. This got more and more true the higher level you got. My THF right now typically stabs at least 6 or 7 time per attack round and with enough haste it's actually super hard to know when an attack round ends and the next one begins.

Quote:
or a macro for divine seal Cure tucked in a corner for "just in case"?

Maybe... it's a lot safer to put DS on its own macro since your go-to cures are almost certainly already on macros of their own and now you're not having to wait a full second between DS and casting your cure.


Edited, May 26th 2017 3:14pm by Callinon



"Separate buttons because gearswaps exist. Also all those things are rarely on the exact same cooldown and as soon as a job ability fails to activate because it's on cooldown, the whole macro grinds to a halt."


exactly not on the same cooldown so using that huge attack burst would only happen ONCE after that you just use the abilities separately (which you wouldnt need a macro for) until theyre ALL cooled don and youre readying to see a 5+ digit damage number again.


"The one that didn't want to accidentally fire an attack round between macro wait states ruining their big hit. SA, TA, and WS are on minimum 3 macros. This got more and more true the higher level you got. My THF right now typically stabs at least 6 or 7 time per attack round and with enough haste it's actually super hard to know when an attack round ends and the next one begins. "

Umm due to animation and a mere /wait 1 between even ability time I can literally count one one hand the number of times I EVER seen an attack round go off during that macro in the 10+ years Ive been playing.

"Maybe... it's a lot safer to put DS on its own macro since your go-to cures are almost certainly already on macros of their own and now you're not having to wait a full second between DS and casting your cure."

The Divine Seal WOULD have its own Macros. The Divine Seal + <highest Cure tier here> macro would just be for "oh ****" moments which youd rarely have to use.


Also what about a Convert + Cure Macro. Everyone Always re heals themselves after a Convert.. so why no have a macro that does both for you in one button press?





#33 May 26 2017 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
****
5,726 posts
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
what about a macro to throw u p all your att buffs (berserk, warcry, last resort etc etc) before unleashing a devastating weapon skill?

Or what thief didnt have an SATAWS macro?

Those were the exceptions, not the rule.

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
or a macro for divine seal Cure tucked in a corner for "just in case"?

Nope. Dive Seal was it's own macro. I might want to use it with different spells after all (single vs AoE, or level cap, or whatever.)

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Also what about a Convert + Cure Macro. Everyone Always re heals themselves after a Convert.. so why no have a macro that does both for you in one button press?

Again, nope. Healing yourself immediately after a convert isn't always necessary or wanted. I could always just hit the appropriate cure macro at my convenience when I want the heal.


Callinon wrote:
The fact is, if you wanted to actually be good, your macros got complicated. Like.... really complicated. I've seen large flowcharts drawn for macro planning depending on the job, mostly because each macro only had 6 lines. Want to do things without macros? Welcome to Menu Purgatory, your one stop shop for soul crushing menus, scrolling patterns, and arrow key sequence memorization.

Don't forget about typing things directly into the command line. There were something things I didn't even bother to macro. It was faster and more efficient to just type /ma Sneak <me> than to flip through menus or remember where I stashed the macro.

Edited, May 26th 2017 3:31pm by Karlina
____________________________
75 Rabbit/75 Sheep/75 Coeurl/75 Eft/75 Raptor/75 Hippogryph/75 Puk
75 Scorpion/75 Wamoura/75 Pixie/75 Peiste/64 Sabotender
51 Bird/41 Mandragora/40 Bee/37 Crawler/37 Bat

Items no one cares about: O
Missions no one cares about: O
Crafts no one cares about: O
#34 May 26 2017 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
***
3,719 posts
Quote:
Don't forget about typing things directly into the command line. There were something things I didn't even bother to macro. It was faster and more efficient to just type /ma Sneak <me> than to flip through menus or remember where I stashed the macro.


Yep I do that a lot especially with casters. Though back when I was a BLM main I did manually sort my spell list very carefully so that I could find exactly the spell I wanted in the menu very quickly. This was helpful for elemental nukes, whereas utility spells were on macros.

Quote:
Umm due to animation and a mere /wait 1 between even ability time I can literally count one one hand the number of times I EVER seen an attack round go off during that macro in the 10+ years Ive been playing.


Before I leveled THF myself, I used to see this happen constantly because someone's macro misfired. So when I picked up THF myself I decided the best way around that problem was to not have one macro trying to do three things badly.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#35 May 26 2017 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
***
3,438 posts
Ever since SE buffed Trick Attack, you don't even want SATA on the same macro anyways!

And when I play THF, I manual-select Sneak Attack and then do the WS manual selected without macro. Call me weird, sure, but 99% of the time I get it, np.

But if I were to make it macro, I'd definitely not want to string them both in the same macro, lol. At 119, there's barely a second in between attacks, your character almost looks like a Monk with Hundred Fists. Good luck getting a /wait 1 in there somewhere.
#36 Jun 05 2017 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
598 posts
So now we are back to what they were trying to accomplish with the original FFXIV a completely mod-able hot bar so you could design your own rotations and customize your hotbar with abilities from all the classes you leveled up.

Edited, Jun 5th 2017 5:40pm by kainsilv
____________________________
"The next time you have the urge to stab me in the back have the guts to do it to my face." - Malcolm Reynolds
#37 Jun 12 2017 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
**
440 posts
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
then xiv "and wow" came along and ruined that by making an mmo that requires more fighting game like playing skills and less rpg skills


Eh, stuff like this was in MMOs ages before WoW. Lineage 1 is older than dirt but you could literally die in half a second if you weren't careful (and you lost exp on death and could even de-level...).

As for the topic, does anyone know if GCD length is being changed at all in SB? I heard months back that it was being reduced, but that was hearsay and I've seen nothing of it since...
#38 Jun 12 2017 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
***
3,719 posts
Quote:
As for the topic, does anyone know if GCD length is being changed at all in SB? I heard months back that it was being reduced, but that was hearsay and I've seen nothing of it since...


No, and I can't think of a reason why it would be.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#39 Jun 13 2017 at 7:32 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
*****
12,816 posts
Based on what I played, the GCD changed but only because the calculations @70 are different. (Skill Speed acts more like haste..ish.) But that was SUPPOSEDLY an old build, so who knows later this week.
____________________________

#40 Jun 13 2017 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
**
440 posts
Callinon wrote:
Quote:
As for the topic, does anyone know if GCD length is being changed at all in SB? I heard months back that it was being reduced, but that was hearsay and I've seen nothing of it since...


No, and I can't think of a reason why it would be.


I can't speak for everyone, but I had several friends try the game and then quit due to the length of the GCD (the length of the MSQ wasn't helping, though they have a quick bypass of that now, thankfully).

Thing is, a 2.5s GCD makes sense at raid level when you have lots going on to take note of, as well as probably 2-3 OGCD skills, but when you're leveling up especially, waiting 2.5s between every button press feels painfully slow.

It sucks because I love everything about FFXIV over WoW EXCEPT for the combat. The crafting is worlds better, the world and story have much more love put into them, the Atma weapon grind may be long and tedious but at least you know what you're getting out of it as opposed to WoW's "legendary lotto"...

I'm not exactly a young man (36), but I don't need to wait 2.5s between every button press. I've burned out trying to level up other jobs just due to how slow combat is at lower levels.

The 2.5s GCD makes perfect sense when dealing with raid mechanics (especially when you don't have crutch addons to notify you of things that are happening), but it makes all other forms of gameplay just generally painful.
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1809919[/ffxivsig]
#41 Jun 13 2017 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
***
3,719 posts
Quote:
I'm not exactly a young man (36), but I don't need to wait 2.5s between every button press. I've burned out trying to level up other jobs just due to how slow combat is at lower levels.


Well I'm only 35 so my teeth aren't being kept in a glass of water next to me just yet.

2.5s IS pretty slow at low levels. But at higher levels, once you have oGCD abilities to weave in, not only is your GCD shorter because of speed stats, but there's more to do within it. I can understand the frustration at low levels, but reducing the GCD length changes combat calculations EVERYWHERE. It would require fights to be redesigned across the game to account for the difference in damage.

Man is that not worth it.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#42 Jun 13 2017 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
**
440 posts
Callinon wrote:
2.5s IS pretty slow at low levels. But at higher levels, once you have oGCD abilities to weave in, not only is your GCD shorter because of speed stats, but there's more to do within it. I can understand the frustration at low levels, but reducing the GCD length changes combat calculations EVERYWHERE. It would require fights to be redesigned across the game to account for the difference in damage.

Man is that not worth it.


It'd be nice if they threw speed stats on lower level gear for that reason.

XIV has some excellent raid encounters that are both fun and challenging, but that enjoyment sits behind a very long slog.

I wish they had released these jump potions years ago when I had convinced my friends to try the game, argh...
____________________________

[ffxivsig]1809919[/ffxivsig]
#43 Jun 13 2017 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
***
3,438 posts
Eh, hitting the same 2 buttons 2.5 seconds a part, or 1 second apart makes no real difference, you're still doing 1-2 or 1-2-3 over and over again.

It's more to do with them doing this ridiculously slow drip of skills.

Take gladiator for example. Fast Blade -> Savage Blade until what was that again, level TWENTY-SIX!?

If I hit Fast Blade and then wait 2.5 seconds for Savage Blade, it isn't any different than hitting Fast Blade and waiting 1 second for Savage Blade.

It's still just as terrible and boring. What they need is a low-level revamp with more skills. I don't mind 2.5s GCD when I throw RoH, RB, GB, and RA into the mix. Add in there CoS, SW, Sheltron, Clemency, and my cooldowns and I've got buttons that are pushed on a regular basis.

Early game, though? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

EDIT: BTW, WoW paladins weren't any better (Pre-Legion; I quit during Warlords). Judgement->Crusader Strike until you learn that ability I can't remember that uses holy power.

So, Judgment->Crusader Strike until 3 holy power and then that finisher, rinse repeat. yawn. Even the shorter GCD doesn't make it any more interesting. You don't get interesting WoW Ret Paladin until you start getting that instant/free cast exorcism proc, 5 holy power max, and the random holy power procs. THEN, finally, it starts getting fun. But even with shorter GCD, early level WoW paladins are just as boring. You just hit the same 2 buttons twice as often. wow, whoop-de-doo.

Edited, Jun 13th 2017 11:36am by Lyrailis
#44 Jun 13 2017 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
**
440 posts
Lyrailis wrote:
Eh, hitting the same 2 buttons 2.5 seconds a part, or 1 second apart makes no real difference, you're still doing 1-2 or 1-2-3 over and over again.


It all hinges on the TTK of the average non-elite monster and the number of rotations it takes.

It's true that most rotations are simple (especially at lower levels), but that's all the more reason you shouldn't have to cycle through them THAT many times to kill something.

I've not mathed out the average TTK, but even with decent gear (since I'm an "everything" crafter), trying to level jobs felt like far too much of a slog for me to want to continue when I tried a few months back.

You're absolutely right that the trickle of skills don't help, though.

It would actually make TONS of sense for them to either give us access to +speed gear at lower levels, or to just apply a blanket boost to speed when you're lower level.

Fewer buttons to hit = a simpler rotation = fewer/hardly any decisions to make, therefore everything could be 2X as fast without consequence.

But max level = more buttons to hit = more decisions to make. Ergo, the 2.5s GCD makes more sense.
1 2 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 4 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (4)