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#327 Apr 04 2016 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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I'd love to ask Yoshi-P about what he or his developers were thinking when this content was commissioned.


"That's a funny way to spell Lords of Verminion."

"Btw have we told you how awesome Lords of Verminion is? Because we've spent a TON of time developing it."

Edited, Apr 4th 2016 5:42pm by Callinon
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#328 Apr 04 2016 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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btw, somewhat relevant to this discussion: finally got around to catching up with MSQ, and was pleasantly surprised to find myself participating in something called Grand Melee during one of the quests. If they fleshed it out and made it into a thing (maybe a PvPvE thing?), i would play it.

not relevant to the discussion, but file under wtf: picked up machinist after a break from leveling it, and was reminded of how SE likes to give us something that seems like a cool feature on the surface, but is in fact lame upon further inspection. Or, in this case, not even something that cool, just a standard mmo feature:

Someone tell me why mch's heavy and bind are on the same CD. I mean, what if I, idk, want to use them both on different mobs to help CONTROL A CROWD. Its such a bummer. Its like ninja's Hide. "Hey our game has a stealth class. Well...technically."

Ok I'm done being negative. I've actually been really enjoying this game lately, probably because I have so little time to play it. backhanded compliment ftw.

Edited, Apr 4th 2016 7:05pm by Llester

Edited, Apr 4th 2016 7:06pm by Llester
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#329 Apr 04 2016 at 5:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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"That's a funny way to spell Lords of Verminion."

"Btw have we told you how awesome Lords of Verminion is? Because we've spent a TON of time developing it."


lol... Smiley: frown

For the record, I don't think I'll ever even try Lords of Verminion. I've only ever been in the Gold Saucer like twice.
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#330 Apr 04 2016 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
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I get branded hardcore because I do this game's content and I guarantee plenty of people, especially casual have much more time to play than I do.


Everyone who plays this game plays the game's content. You're just part of the very small percentage of players that does the savage-mode content. Perhaps "hardcore" isn't the right word for that one characteristic. "Elite" may be a better word.

And the second half of that statement has a hardcore ring to it. The issue here isn't "X amount of total free time." It's "X amount of a person's free time he can spend in a video game on a predictable basis." If you really have time to do all the game's content on multiple characters (on different servers, too), then I highly doubt you have less time to spend in the game than most other players.


This is why I always say it specifically as: "Actually do ALL of this game's content" because it's really...not hard or "a big commitment" to do the majority of this game's content. Even less so to actually keep up to date considering the astronomical amount of nerfs and how unbalanced the content really is once you're naturally over the ilvls (to the point some content auto trigger wipe mechanics if you kill it too quickly.) Trust me it takes faaaaaaaaaar less time than you think.

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See, this is your problem (again). You try to explain why you're not hardcore, but then you say something like this, which strongly indicates your gameplay is shaped only by min/maxng -- one of the defining traits of hardcore players -- and not just progressing while having fun.


I mean, no matter how you try to slice it, if you've done Midas since inception and didn't blow all of your lore tomes spreading out gear, you can get an ilvl230 weapon tomorrow for literally almost no work at all in comparison of doing a relic from i170-230, especially considering ilvl200-210 phase. That has nothing to do with min/maxing, people begged for a story mode Alexander, Midas 4 drops a gear you need 7 of to exchange for a tome if you don't run Savage version for that tome, basically -everyone- has access to it. I even stated:

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since stats don't matter if you're not touching harder content, so even having a customizable weapon is moot unless you want to "personalize it" or like the design of the relics


Stats don't matter to someone not touching content that actually requires maximizing your build, however, that doesn't change the fact as of tomorrow if you actually ran Midas normal and have the lore tomes, you automatically get a better weapon, that's even with liberal lore tome spending.

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Sure, the thought has crossed my mind that I don't really need to do the relic weapon chain. But I like having goals to work toward, and the relic weapon is a good goal. It's like a free reward for logging in and doing things that don't require a static.


Nothing in this game requires a static though, and using your mindset, the lore weapon is a "free reward for logging in and doing things that don't require a static." Relic weapons tend to be largely worthless in the grand scheme of things per design, because they ALWAYS design a better weapon you can get for far less work. That's not my opinion or view on the matter, that's solid facts.

Llester wrote:
Someone tell me why mch's heavy and bind are on the same CD. I mean, what if I, idk, want to use them both on different mobs to help CONTROL A CROWD. Its such a bummer. Its like ninja's Hide. "Hey our game has a stealth class. Well...technically."


It's due to the outdated battle system this game uses and yoshi being terrified of one class "doing too much". There's absolutely no excuse or balance reason for Bind/Stun/Silence to EVER share a recast timer other than yoshi's own words back in 2.1 "Then people will only want to invite a Bard because they'd be able to silence and bind enemies in a pinch."

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#331 Apr 04 2016 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I mean, no matter how you try to slice it, if you've done Midas since inception and didn't blow all of your lore tomes spreading out gear, you can get an ilvl230 weapon tomorrow for literally almost no work at all in comparison of doing a relic from i170-230...


Except that means having to grind out certain floors to farm specific drops -- which isn't in itself hardcore, but that's not something a normal player would have expected anyone to do thus far, especially knowing that relic updates would be coming.

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Stats don't matter to someone not touching content that actually requires maximizing your build


Normal players don't look down on others for wanting the best stats even if they won't be doing the hardest fights.

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Nothing in this game requires a static though, and using your mindset, the lore weapon is a "free reward for logging in and doing things that don't require a static." Relic weapons tend to be largely worthless in the grand scheme of things per design, because they ALWAYS design a better weapon you can get for far less work. That's not my opinion or view on the matter, that's solid facts.


I think you're inadvertently taking my meaning a little differently than I intended. You were asking why go through the bother of pursuing a relic weapon, and I was responding, basically, why not? It's essentially a free top-level weapon for doing all the things I enjoy doing on my favorite class.

Again, only a hardcore player would call the relic weapon "largely worthless." The relic weapon is more than capable of being used in any content in the game, even in savage mode -- it's just not BiS for all jobs at every possible moment.

Embrace the truth, Hio.
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#332 Apr 05 2016 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
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I mean, no matter how you try to slice it, if you've done Midas since inception and didn't blow all of your lore tomes spreading out gear, you can get an ilvl230 weapon tomorrow for literally almost no work at all in comparison of doing a relic from i170-230...


Except that means having to grind out certain floors to farm specific drops -- which isn't in itself hardcore, but that's not something a normal player would have expected anyone to do thus far, especially knowing that relic updates would be coming.


But...people begged SE for "story mode Alexander", which means running Midas 4 every week, which most "casual players" tend to run for the parts to get midas gear, as I'm sure most people I see running Midas normal aren't all just "min/maxers". There's no "grinding floors", you do a quick 5-10 minute fight a week to get a Midan gear.

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Again, only a hardcore player would call the relic weapon "largely worthless."


Except for the fact every update they tend to be the more outdated weapon which as of 3.1 they stated they're releasing more crafted alternatives to help people get into raids faster, that naturally means by design they are worthless. You're, as you say:

Quote:
inadvertently taking my meaning a little differently


Especially when come 3.3, not only will your relic be outdated, but you will have access to higher ilvl weapons for less work than you put in your relic, because I can promise you only a "hardcore player" will have a relic up to 230 currently, since the whole argument is "time commitment", doing a relic casually wouldn't keep you up to date.

So as you say:

Quote:
Embrace the truth


Here's the entire relic weapon progress as of now:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3x37zh/anima_weapon_guide/

If you see how much is required for it and how many tomes for the "easy" route is required, it's EXTREMELY hard to try to argue against the fact you're basically doing the "same thing as us hardcore players" in terms of time commitment, especially if you have a ilvl230 relic right now. Because the entire process, done casually, especially going the weekly route, would not be complete. That's why I said by time you finish you relic, as of today, you could have a largely better weapon by doing less work, because 1000 lore tomes and 7 weeks of Midas is SO MUCH LESS work lol. It truly is.

Edited, Apr 5th 2016 7:59am by Theonehio
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#333 Apr 05 2016 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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But...people begged SE for "story mode Alexander", which means running Midas 4 every week, which most "casual players" tend to run for the parts to get midas gear, as I'm sure most people I see running Midas normal aren't all just "min/maxers". There's no "grinding floors", you do a quick 5-10 minute fight a week to get a Midan gear.


Even when you try to explain how you're not hardcore, you still just ooze hardcore. No, Hio, having a story mode doesn't mean running Midas 4 every week. Most people don't grind that floor until they get a gear. In fact, I know several people who don't even do Midas at all.

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Except for the fact every update they tend to be the more outdated weapon which as of 3.1 they stated they're releasing more crafted alternatives to help people get into raids faster, that naturally means by design they are worthless.


The relic is a top iLevel weapon at i230. You argued that it's worthless, which is something only a hardcore BiSing player would say.

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Especially when come 3.3, not only will your relic be outdated, but you will have access to higher ilvl weapons for less work than you put in your relic, because I can promise you only a "hardcore player" will have a relic up to 230 currently, since the whole argument is "time commitment", doing a relic casually wouldn't keep you up to date.


Two areas where your statement is flawed:

1) Again, your hardcoreness is showing. You are min/maxing a perceived output inequality and also questioning why anyone should bother with a relic if it's not the most efficient of all possible options (from the standpoint of a hardcore player, anyway -- which you are). In doing so, you're ignoring the fact (again) that most people don't play this game with the goal of being as efficient as possible; most people play to be efficient while having fun. And some people simply have more fun working toward relics. It's a form of endgame.

2) Maybe I misread this, but you seem to be arguing that only hardcore players should have relics at i230? And are you trying to imply that if someone has 25-30 mins of random windows to play most nights then he should be able to master savage-mode raiding? Come on now, Hio... be real. I hope I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say here.

3) Also, one more thing... normal players don't consider "up to date" as being fully decked in BiS gear, which I'm guessing is your interpretation... because you're hardcore.

I'm going to start calling you Hardcore Hio.


Edited, Apr 5th 2016 8:03am by Thayos
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#334 Apr 05 2016 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
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But...people begged SE for "story mode Alexander", which means running Midas 4 every week, which most "casual players" tend to run for the parts to get midas gear, as I'm sure most people I see running Midas normal aren't all just "min/maxers". There's no "grinding floors", you do a quick 5-10 minute fight a week to get a Midan gear.


Even when you try to explain how you're not hardcore, you still just ooze hardcore. No, Hio, having a story mode doesn't mean running Midas 4 every week. Most people don't grind that floor until they get a gear. In fact, I know several people who don't even do Midas at all.


So..you're telling me the people who begged SE for an easier raid system to "more fit their lifestyle" aren't running it? Why do they continue to make it if "so few people actually utilize the content" as a popular argument against harder content is thrown around.

I'm sorry, but if running content weekly is considered hardcore..you have quite a different definition of hardcore than what hardcore actually means in an MMORPG.

Quote:
The relic is a top iLevel weapon at i230. You argued that it's worthless, which is something only a hardcore BiSing player would say.


Current ilvl is 245. Next in line is ilvl240 unaugmented then ilvl 230. The easiest "upgrade" weapon is Sephirot 220. 3.3 is the next ilvl jump. So no..ilvl230 being outdated upon the next ilvl jump makes it worthless in the grandscheme of things, because if you're arguing that it's a "top level weapon you can easily get"..it has to match ilvl or be at least CLOSE to the ilvl of the raid/crafted equivillent. If it was 240 it would be a different story, or even 235 so it's nice in between, but it's 230..which means it's already on the lowest end of "top" weapons, which, as of today, you can get one if you actually did STORY MODE midas since it's release, which most people have, based on the lodestone and pads parsing shows quite a bit of people rocking Midas 220 gear, since it was "hardcore" to buy/craft and overmeld the crafted 220 set.

Quote:
1) Again, your hardcoreness is showing. You are min/maxing a perceived output inequality and also questioning why anyone should bother with a relic if it's not the most efficient of all possible options (from the standpoint of a hardcore player, anyway -- which you are).


Not really. I said explicitedly, doing a relic in this cycle is something you'd do if you want to eventually personalize it or like the design, otherwise, you do realize ilvl230 relic is the SAME ILVL as the 7 week Lore weapon, right? It takes FAR less work to get the lore weapon, which is my point, because despite the work involved, which yoshida stated himself was designed to match Savage progression time commitment and 'Difficulty", it doesn't go beyond easier to obtain weapons. Has absolutely nothing to do with hardcore.

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And are you trying to imply that if someone has 25-30 mins of random play sessions each night that he should be able to master savage-mode raiding?


Where...did I say this? Also stop grasping at the "hardcore" term, that's more grasping for straws than anything. You don't have to be hardcore to do 7 weeks of Midas NORMAL.



Edited, Apr 5th 2016 8:09am by Theonehio
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#335 Apr 05 2016 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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So..you're telling me the people who begged SE for an easier raid system to "more fit their lifestyle" aren't running it? Why do they continue to make it if "so few people actually utilize the content" as a popular argument against harder content is thrown around.


You're moving the goal posts. A minute ago, you said:

Quote:
people begged SE for "story mode Alexander", which means running Midas 4 every week


And no, having story mode doesn't mean you MUST grind the **** out of it. It just means it's there to do as people please. You're also drawing a completely incorrect assumption that just because people aren't grinding it hardcore-style that there must be very few people doing it. Again, Hio, your hardcore nature is totally on display here.

Quote:
Current ilvl is 245. Next in line is ilvl240 unaugmented then ilvl 230. The easiest "upgrade" weapon is Sephirot 220. 3.3 is the next ilvl jump. So no..ilvl230 being outdated upon the next ilvl jump makes it worthless in the grandscheme of things, because if you're arguing that it's a "top level weapon you can easily get"..it has to match ilvl or be at least CLOSE to the ilvl of the raid/crafted equivillent. If it was 240 it would be a different story, or even 235 so it's nice in between, but it's 230..which means it's already on the lowest end of "top" weapons, which, as of today, you can get one if you actually did STORY MODE midas since it's release, which most people have, based on the lodestone and pads parsing shows quite a bit of people rocking Midas 220 gear, since it was "hardcore" to buy/craft and overmeld the crafted 220 set.


I didn't realize the tome weapon is i240 (the i245 is irrelevant), so I can understand why you'd scoff at a relic weapon. However, everything I've said still stands. If you're not a hardcore player, then an i230 weapon is absolutely fine for anything you'll do in the game at this point, and it won't be long before the relic chain equals or surpasses the tome weapon. And getting the i210 to i230 bump is pretty easy, allowing players to use their lore tomes on other things -- which many, many people are.

I'm guessing you'll disagree with that too, which again shows how you approach this game from a hardcore standpoint.

Quote:
Not really. I said explicitedly, doing a relic in this cycle is something you'd do if you want to eventually personalize it or like the design, otherwise, you do realize ilvl230 relic is the SAME ILVL as the 7 week Lore weapon, right? It takes FAR less work to get the lore weapon, which is my point, because despite the work involved, which yoshida stated himself was designed to match Savage progression time commitment and 'Difficulty", it doesn't go beyond easier to obtain weapons. Has absolutely nothing to do with hardcore.


The bolded part is what a hardcore player would say. You're not understanding that some people enjoy doing the relic chain because, to them, it's a form of endgame... and it also makes sense to do, since it only requires doing the things people would do in the game anyway. The funny thing is you probably don't even realize how many players would find that bolded text to be condescending.

You're right that it takes far less work to get a lore weapon... but didn't you see that coming? I sure did, as I'm sure most players did, too. And regardless, the relic quest remains wildly popular. And that's because most people who play this game don't approach it from your hardcore perspective.

Quote:
Where...did I say this?


Trust me, I'm glad that I misunderstood you.

And Hio, I'm pointing out that you're hardcore (and you are... don't fight it) because your hardcoreness actually helps to make sense of why you keep playing this game despite how much you seem to despise it.

Edited, Apr 5th 2016 8:31am by Thayos
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#336 Apr 05 2016 at 1:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
And no, having story mode doesn't mean you MUST grind the **** out of it. It just means it's there to do as people please.

I'm not understanding something here. Are you calling running something one time a week grinding the **** out of it?

I gave up on my two relics at the 210 step since grinding out all of the Unidentifiable items is something I find pretty un-fun. For me anyway, running any of the content in the game that gives me Lore and completing Burden of the Son once a week for 7 weeks to get my 7 Midan Gears is a much more fun route to a 230 weapon. Even if I didn't run Midas every single week and just did all content as I please I would very likely get 7 Midan gears before I ever saw the first 20 Unidentifiable items.

To me the Relic is much more "hardcore" to get but that of course is subject to personal play style and idea of fun.

Also thank you to whoever posted the link to pantheonmmo.com I'm definately going to be checking that out. I like xiv for what it is but for the things it isn't this might scratch that itch.


Edited, Apr 5th 2016 3:14pm by Yelta
#337 Apr 05 2016 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
coming out of lurk mode for a second.

I definitely would like to see some new types of content, more in line with the different battle systems that XI would introduce every major patch. Part of what stupefied me when i began exploring non-XI mmos back in the day was how most of the content was all the same type of content. Basically, dungeons and raids. We never called them raids in XI, we called them dynamis, salvage, etc, because each of those events is its own, mostly fresh type of content. Each type of content was almost like a new game within the game, and this imo really helped the longevity of XI.

Now I surely understand why SE obviously has their update pipeline configured the way they do; its less time consuming to simply make 2 new dungeons using the same, standard dungeon format than it is to, say, implement a ffxiv version of Skirmish or something. small team, etc etc. Its also more of a risk. What if no one likes the new fresh content? (hi diadem. you were a conceptual step in the right direction, but mostly you just proved my point that the dev team doesnt have the resources to deviate meaningfully from their established update cycle. but we already knew that.)

All of that stuff aside, my main observation, as someone who plays on and off, is that for me, this game is fun as **** in small doses, and quickly becomes tedious and repetitive if i try to get hardcore with it in terms of playtime. It can easily trick me into feeling really really invested in my character, until all of a sudden I don't want to log in, because i know i'll just be doing the same **** i did yesterday and it makes my brain feel crazy. That combined with the weekly lockouts actually gives me mild anxiety, because i feel like i have to do the repetitive things before the week is up, and its easier (and healthier) to just not log in at that point.


That is it right there. I just want something different. Sick of dungeon runs for tomes.
This has got to be the most repetitive mmo I have played.
Hell instead of reacting to a battle situation you have a rotation.. That word right there tells you something. Same thing over and over, No skill

I really am at the point I do not care hard core or not I just want something new.

Every major expansion added something new to the game in FFXI this game has had zip zero..

Every battle is cookie cutter.
Stale dodging.
People said FFXI was grindy... OMG this game is a grind that has not changed since day one. At least when you did grind in FFXI you came out with something you could be proud of.
This game has lost all creativity and is all work with no reward other than glamour.



Edited, Apr 5th 2016 4:51pm by Nashred

Edited, Apr 5th 2016 4:52pm by Nashred
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#338 Apr 05 2016 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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Just wanted to mention... the game, at least from my perspective, was the most active during 2.1.

In 2.1 we had quite a few activities. Raiding was very accessible, extreme trials offering max ilvl gear, and tomes, too, was pretty fun to farm, with 5 dungeons in the roulette, 3 of them being pretty challenging, and all activities offering a good amount of tomes.

I know this is controversial, but I must question why we need "hardcore raiding" and such difficult (mechanics wise) extreme primals (Thordan, Ravana, Sephirot) , and why hardcore raiding must have the best rewards by default. At least for me, all it did was force me into seeing the same 7 faces all the time, while ignoring every other activities and, by consequence, the people not in my static. It was pretty depressing seeing friends leaving one after another, either because their static broke or got stuck at T7 or whatever.

Not to mention how heart breaking it is to leave a static of friends because they aren't raiding material. Like many others at the time, I got stuck at T8. Either I continued stuck at T8, while doing nothing else because Leviathan and Moogle didn't offer anything good (and people completely ignored Moogle due to it), or changed. I decided to change, and instantly saw two of my best friends stopping playing soon.

I don't know, the way the game is set up, it's very unfriendly to what a MMORPG is supposed to provide. It's leaning too far into the e-sports side while forgetting the roots of the genre (playing with people), it seems to forget that people have different skill levels and time avaliability.
#339 Apr 05 2016 at 4:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Nashred wrote:
I really am at the point I do not care hard core or not I just want something new.

Every major expansion added something new to the game in FFXI this game has had zip zero..

HW added a lot of new things. They may not be quite what you wanted but that doesn't negate their existence.

Also, the addition of new things didn't really apply to everyone. With an incredibly low mission completion rate, what exactly did CoP add for the average player? Bibiki Bay as an exp camp?


Nashred wrote:
People said FFXI was grindy... OMG this game is a grind that has not changed since day one. At least when you did grind in FFXI you came out with something you could be proud of.

Sort of. XIV isn't more grindy than XI. It's just a different kind of grind. XI is a marathon, XIV is a treadmill. They're different, but in the end you still spend the same amount of time running.

In XI it took FOREVER to get anything. You could do dynamis/sky/whatever for years and still not have everything you wanted if you were unlucky or had lots of gear competition in the shell. Yeah it felt great to finally get an item, but it was more of an "Oh thank god that's over" kind of feeling than a "Sweet! New pants!" sort of feeling.

In XIV the gear grind of more of a moving target. You're much more likely to get a given piece of gear but gear doesn't last forever so you're constantly looking for something new.

One way isn't inherently better than the other, but saying that FFXIV is MORE of a grind is just completely untrue.
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#340 Apr 05 2016 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not understanding something here. Are you calling running something one time a week grinding the **** out of it?


Running it once a week is normal. That's about what most people do.

Earlier in the thread, Hio criticized the addition of story mode (which only more hardcore players would do) and said its only purpose is to force players to grind turn 4 for a Midan gear to be made into a weapon. Again, a normal player wouldn't say that -- most players try to get their weekly drops, but they won't grind unnecessarily to do so. And they definitely take more value from storymode Midas from one item from one turn.
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#341 Apr 05 2016 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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Karlina wrote:
With an incredibly low mission completion rate, what exactly did CoP add for the average player? Bibiki Bay as an exp camp?

From what I remember, about a dozen zones and probably 20-30 new mobs... possibly more. The new ENM system, new BCNMs, missions and NPCs, ect.

Though CoP took a little while to fully flesh out, it was eventually packed with much more content than you see in any modern MMO these days. Also worth noting that due to the incredibly grindy nature of FFXI, what you refer to as an 'average player' didn't really exist. The commitment needed to take a job high enough to exp in Bibiki Bay wasn't a stretch to doing missions, story or any of the other content.

Hell, compared to todays gamers, getting your chocobo license and unlocking sub jobs in XI could land you the 'hardcore' brand.
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#342 Apr 05 2016 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
From what I remember, about a dozen zones and probably 20-30 new mobs... possibly more. The new ENM system, new BCNMs, missions and NPCs, ect.

Let's do missions!
Ugh. Too hard and annoying and level caps suck.

Let's do an ENM!
I don't have Riverne access.

Let's go to Uleguerand!
Why?

Let's go to Carpenter's Landing!
Why?

Let's go to Movalpolis!
Why?

Let's go to Purgonorgo Isle!
The who and the what now?

Let's exp on efts!
Why the **** would anyone want to do that?
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75 Rabbit/75 Sheep/75 Coeurl/75 Eft/75 Raptor/75 Hippogryph/75 Puk
75 Scorpion/75 Wamoura/75 Pixie/75 Peiste/64 Sabotender
51 Bird/41 Mandragora/40 Bee/37 Crawler/37 Bat

Items no one cares about: O
Missions no one cares about: O
Crafts no one cares about: O
#343 Apr 05 2016 at 11:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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****, compared to todays gamers, getting your chocobo license and unlocking sub jobs in XI could land you the 'hardcore' brand.


Nah. Getting a choco license was a simple quest that anyone could do solo. Getting a subjob could be solo'd too, although most people got help from a higher-level linkshell friend for a key.

The people who were labeled hardcore in FFXI had pretty much the same attitudes as the people who are hardcore in FFXIV.

In fact, many are probably the same people. A decade ago, the average gamer was in his/her mid-20s, and now the average age is in the mid-30s. And if I were to shoot from the hip, I'd guess MMOs aren't as attracting as many of "today's gamers" as they did back in their heyday.

FFXIV is full of players like me who were hardcore in XI's prime but can't keep it up anymore. There's just a lot more going on once you get into your 30s. But there will always be folks who prioritize virtual worlds above other things.

I wonder what the average age of a game like XIV really is? Most of the people in my FC are older (late 20s through early 40s), but I'm also aware that like-minded people tend to gravitate toward one another.

Edited, Apr 5th 2016 10:24pm by Thayos
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#344 Apr 06 2016 at 2:07 AM Rating: Good
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Karlina wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
From what I remember, about a dozen zones and probably 20-30 new mobs... possibly more. The new ENM system, new BCNMs, missions and NPCs, ect.

Let's do missions!
Ugh. Too hard and annoying and level caps suck.

Let's do an ENM!
I don't have Riverne access.

Let's go to Uleguerand!
Why?

Let's go to Carpenter's Landing!
Why?

Let's go to Movalpolis!
Why?

Let's go to Purgonorgo Isle!
The who and the what now?

Let's exp on efts!
Why the **** would anyone want to do that?

I didn't really play with anyone who wasn't motivated. I co-founded and ran an HNMLS and was active in a dyna LS for years. I wasn't really ******* with anyone who wasn't at least semi-serious about getting **** done. That was my experience so that's where i'm coming from. No ****... I probably farmed my buffer back after making attempts at AV that I could have leveled 5 other jobs to cap.

My experience was probably far from typical, but I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability.

Ule Range had a lot to offer. It was a great location for BST because it was sorely underutilized as an exp camp for normal groups. Several jobs had farmable gear that was worth getting if you weren't equipping your main job. While it was low traffic due to players sticking to old exp camps, that made it prime for players like me who farmed it. Jormungand. I hated the zone because it was snow, but it wasn't a wasteland. Later turned out to be extremely useful for anything dealing with magian weather trials.

Carpenter's Landing... well the only thing I did here was level BST, camp a few NMs and level fishing or fish for guild points. Unbeknownst to most, this place had really good leveling spots if you wanted to stay put. Back when travel was a thing and took a lot of time, it was nice to have a spot to go to directly from northern sandy.

Movalpolos was a solid source of exp if you did your weekly ENM 60 for JSE. I spent a hell of a lot of time fishing there. I camped a bugbear(great mob type) and remember soloing on BLM there quite a bit. Honestly, the zone flies on it's soundtrack alone.

P Isle was all about Shen because WHM's have feelings too. That or just to make all the RDMs cry. I didn't really do much else here except kill the snail and hunt clams in my bikini.

Players had a lot more avenues for exp than they thought. I can't fault anyone not wanting to exp on efts, but you have a choice or you don't. If you really wanted exp then you'd exp on what is available. If you wanted a certain camp that was popular for having easy mobs, you were likely competing for space. XI wasn't like XIV where you have your own instances for mobs all to yourself. Respawn timers were also a lot longer and you literally had to pace yourself in some areas to maintain chains.


Bottom line: Regardless of how much you actually decided to participate in, XI still offered more to do outside of whatever activity that turned out to be. It was also more accessible due to the level capping mechanic that you describe here as if it were some sort of burden.

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#345 Apr 06 2016 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
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At this point XI really should come free with a subscription to XIV.


I still don't really see the point for SE though. There seem to be a lot of XIV players who'd dabble in FFXI if it were free, but I still wouldn't see FFXI players starting up in FFXIV. Unless the later part of the equation pans out, then there's just no reason for SE to change anything.

Of course, all bets are off if SE were to ever reconsider cutting off significant content updates for XI.


Firstly that is incredibly disrespectful to the large number of players XI has that play that game as their main mmo and have no interest in XIV, it's saying the game has no value.
Secondly, why would a company give something away for free that people are willing to pay for?
Thirdly, as much as XI players have little interest in XIV because it's so shallow, the same applies to XIV players in reverse. The main reason people play XIV is the graphics and super friendly, all access game type. These two games are like oil and water, they have almost nothing alike.

A combined subscription would be idiocy.
#346 Apr 06 2016 at 9:00 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Firstly that is incredibly disrespectful to the large number of players XI has that play that game as their main mmo and have no interest in XIV, it's saying the game has no value.


No disrespect meant in the slightest.

The reason I say that is because if FFXI players wanted to play XI, they'd be doing so by now. Many of them have been in Vana'diel for years and they're content.

FFXIV has a lot of players who had to give up XI to play XIV, but they'd probably be willing to dabble on their old XI characters (which they spent years building) if they could do so for free.

Again, no disrespect... I feel that's a fairly common sense line of thinking.

And I agree with you about SE not giving things away for free, and I've said that before on these forums. In fact, I've also said the same to people who've thought XIV would go F2P. Why would SE do that after the clear precedent set by XI? SE has already shown us its happy with a smaller, more consistent playerbase on a P2P model. XI's playerbase is extremely small at the moment, but the game's maintenance costs at this point are likely minimal.

Edited, Apr 6th 2016 8:00am by Thayos
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#347 Apr 06 2016 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
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I'm not understanding something here. Are you calling running something one time a week grinding the **** out of it?


Running it once a week is normal. That's about what most people do.

Earlier in the thread, Hio criticized the addition of story mode (which only more hardcore players would do) and said its only purpose is to force players to grind turn 4 for a Midan gear to be made into a weapon. Again, a normal player wouldn't say that -- most players try to get their weekly drops, but they won't grind unnecessarily to do so. And they definitely take more value from storymode Midas from one item from one turn.


Well, since you clearly never touched Midas, or probably even Alexander Gordias, you likely don't understand unless you go pre-made and make loot rules, you're going to be running it far more than once, since according to people like you who considers things hardcore that isn't hardcore, unless they overmelded the ilvl220 craft sets, there's no guarantee you'll get all of your drops in the first run every week, EXCEPT for the Midan gear.

I "criticized" story mode because it screwed up the difficulty progression of the game.
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#348 Apr 06 2016 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, since you clearly never touched Midas, or probably even Alexander Gordias, you likely don't understand unless you go pre-made and make loot rules, you're going to be running it far more than once


I do these fights regularly. You're spouting nonsense.

If you're determined to get one specific thing, then yes, you'll probably be running a turn more than once. But most people won't beat their heads against the wall to get single drops, especially when you're also saving up lore tomes. And if you don't care which drop you get, then it's very easy to do just a couple runs and come away with something.

The fact that you assume people will/should beat their heads against the wall says something about your playstyle.


Edited, Apr 6th 2016 8:13am by Thayos
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#349 Apr 06 2016 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Well, since you clearly never touched Midas, or probably even Alexander Gordias, you likely don't understand unless you go pre-made and make loot rules, you're going to be running it far more than once


I do these fights regularly. You're spouting nonsense


Hey, you do it to me, so it can work in reverse too.

Quote:
The fact that you assume people will beat their heads against the wall as the norm says something about your playstyle.


Like this. It's not beating your head against anything. That's what the relic grind is, but you somehow don't consider that a grind or "hardcore" when it takes far more work than running 1 set of content a week, especially when you get your tomes from doing basic activities every day.

I mean..I don't know what kind of sheltered MMO career you have, but running easy content that is EXTREMELY ACCESSIBLE, THAT PEOPLE BEGGED SE FOR AT THAT, is far from beating your head against everything, especially when you consider someone who overmelded crafted pieces "hardcore."

I'm not sure why you're so adamant on saying people don't run Midas Normal on a weekly, if not daily basis till they get their parts. If you do it regularly, your queue times should be absolutely abysmal because "no one will beat their heads against the wall." So I'm sorry to hear it takes you hours to get into Midas normal.

I assure you most people who care about min/maxing doesn't touch midas at all outside of 4, because the 220 crafted pieces are largely BiS, so what group of players does that leave? Imaginary ones? Or people...who asked for the easier version? Not to sound snippy or anything, but let's be real here, Midas would be dead content if people didn't run it at all for drops every week.

I mean, you're working on a relic (I assume based on your other topic) which means you have to grind no less than 27,000 eso and run Crystal Tower every week and that's just this current phase, that's not counting the item collection of 200-210 phase, not to mention running old dungeons.

If you don't find the relic grind a "head against wall" situation, I'm thinking it's far less "my playstyle" and more what YOU personally feel. Because all it takes is a simple parse of lodestone and pads and you'll see there's oh so many people who "bash their head against the wall" that chose to get a lore weapon, let alone a 230 weapon and I promise you not all of them are "hardcore players."
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#350 Apr 06 2016 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
Some people grind it, some people dont.

"Beating your head against the wall" occurs when you do something repeatedly with no progress. With the relic quest, there is constant progress. It's a grind, but a good one.

Pretty simple.

Also, your que time logic makes little sense. These are easy fights that a large number of people are currently doing. People don't need to be in mega grind mode to make for fast que times. If even a small number of people are in grind mode, and then a lot of other players are mixed in, then times will be fast.

Also, I'm a tank. My times are always fast.

Edited, Apr 6th 2016 8:32am by Thayos
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#351 Apr 06 2016 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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The free XI subscription with XIV is just something I think would be cool. I'm aware it makes no sense from a business standpoint Smiley: lol
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