Do you think FFXIV will bring back old school endgame?Follow

ARR is indeed a new client on a new engine (the servers are questionable though) -- But there's still far too much from 1.x to really say it's "brand new"..since the overarching storyline even states it's 5 years after the events of 1.23..including the main 2.0 storyline. So I do get why it's hard to say it's brand new since that's half right. I destroyed Ifrit, Garuda and Moogles numerous times in 1.x. I even had campaign like content in 1.x where you had to push back waves of garleans outside of the city gates and so on. For the most part, ARR is a relaunch, but it's still considered version 2.0. So that's neither good nor bad, just, XIV is in an interesting spot considering it's still using concepts and essentially content from as old as 2010, not counting the XI assets used since that's just models.

As for the mobile games - FFXI Grand Masters that I beta tested is just FFXI theatrhythm, it has no real link to XI at all. The mobile client for XI is stated to be a port that starts from zilart but the content is being reformatted and none of our PS2/PC/360 accounts will transfer to it.

I think you're lacking in understanding as to what a reboot means on the development end, because you just stated to entirely contrasting statments. One is true, one is false.

ARR is the new Vanilla. And should be considered the new starting point.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to understand this. Both the server client, and the player client had to be rewritten. Just on the basis of those two facts alone, that means not a single piece of code or graphic went into this game untouched. Every line had to reviewed, every polygon count adjusted, every mesh reviewed.

No 'expansion' ever has done this as a singular rework. This isn't just updating zones and graphic works, then tweaking how combat worked.

That said, there's no denial that 1.0 has a relation to ARR here. Simple an acknowledgement of the developmental reboot. I have repeatedly stated that ARR felt like a sequel rather than what you're trying to peg it as. And you have, on multiple occasions now, tried to alter that by putting words into my mouth.

FFXIV 1.0 deserves it's distinction from FFXIV: A Realm Reborn and beyond. And vice versa. This incarnation of FFXIV started with a Realm Reborn. Period. It was built from the ashes of 1.xx. That is not a divorce, that's a recognition. And you need only go as far as the Development Team to look for confirmation on that view: Source

(emphasis mine)

That's second. Not fifth. And before you go 'conspiracy theory' on us Yoshida had already acknowledged the reset of the clock last year.

The IP is older. The Client is 2 years old. In terms of developmental discussion - A Realm Reborn is the new start date.


As far as your writing tone and level of defensiveness. You really do need to watch what you write. (Don't worry, I do too and I do slip op as well.) Thayos is dead on. The line you became so defensive at was in direct response to that last paragraph, for exactly that reason. Your diction in that last paragraph lead to the implication of a tonal shift into the whole posts, making it sound like your personal view was the pervasive and right one, even if many were going to disagree with you.

I think I've given you enough to be outright combative with so I'm moving on.



The Storyline is kinda irrelevant in the case of this discussion - even if it is derivative, it had to be written for the context of a Realm Reborn, and very, very little was taken over verbatim for the quest lines. Again, this is more resembling as a Mass Effect sequel. Same crew, same theme, same arc of Villians (But with new ones taking the limelight this time) hell even the same settings, but the arc moves on. New and revamped potions come out of the woodwork for it, and the story moves on, rather than being an exact copy of its predecessor.

As far as the servers, the server client (more than just the graphical engine, that's all player client) had to be redone. A small listing some of the reasons was the double checks on positional during attacks which caused lag before the attack even came through. (Which made the animation lock a weird thing.) An antiquated data redundancy system, and virtually zero server-side data recording. I'm sure there's still some original coding in there, but even that likely was put up for review.

We knew the 1.0 client was bad, but it wasn't until that first candid interview with Yoshida when he explained why the full client reboot did we really know HOW bad.

Even the fight scripts, which we see almost tit for tat in the cases of Mooglemog, Garuda, and Ifrit, had to be re-produced and what pieces of codes they could salvage modified. It's like pulling Ryu from Street Fighter and plopping him into a Tekken game. Sure, he might wind up having the exact same fight style, but he's got to fit with the new client to play right. Porting ain't easy. It's less work, ultimately, but it's still a good deal of man-hours to make sure everything checks out and plays nice.

So yeah, 2.0 is the new Vanilla. Not to say that the old Vanilla did not exist or its influences cannot be seen to this day. There's no divorcing from the mistake that was the original 1.0 client. But everything that was old was new again with ARR which pulled off something thought impossible - it managed to have a a second first birthday.

Edited, Aug 20th 2015 11:42am by Hyrist

More varied endgame and outdoor content would be welcomed by me . It doesnt have to mimic ffxi..that wouldn't guarantee its enjoyable, but I can understand ppl wanting more ways to achieve goals.

I don't know what SE limitations are so its hard to think of things that would actually work...we can only have faith that they tap into all the games potential eventually errr....but things like such a basic, unengaging and non creative housing design doesn't spark a lot of faith from me tbh. Nor qol changes that have not been added in 2 years.../sigh.

I really enjoy aspects of ffxiv, but imo they refuse or maybe cant tap into its full potential.
The lack of variety already and countless suggestions made by so many that have never seen the light of day after 2 years is one example of keeping the game at an "ok" level, yet not excelling in ...anything.

Its a bit worry some, but that is the norm for SE.

FFXIV is only one of the games I play/pay for.
It has some really good points, some extremely bad points and many somewhere in between , like every other game.
No game is the best. :)

Trust me, I'm well aware that I'm not the outlier in this thread.

I just remembered what Yoshi P signed on Lahurah's copy of 1.0:

"I fixed this."

Makes me grin every time I recall it.

That's a fair criticism.

In my defense, I don't think it's my place to get in the middle of other people's arguments, unless actual forum rules are being broken (threats, insults, outright trolling, etc). In the threads I follow, I generally don't see this as an issue on either "side" of most arguments. Most people here do a great job sticking to the facts and the bodies of their own arguments, which is why we're able to co-exist and disagree on things with relatively little drama.

However, Filth has a history of taking people out of context, and this time he (again) did it to me -- so I'm calling him out. It just so happens that in this argument, he's incorrectly paraphrased several people, and not just me.

That said, I consider it trolling when people repeatedly twist around other people's words after being called out on it several times. It's a form of harassment. Anyone who is feeling harassed by other forum members can certainly PM me with their concerns.

********

Now, in response to Filth's latest post:



Filth, you profoundly misunderstood what Hyrist is saying.

ARR is the new Vanilla. That doesn't replace the fact that version 1.x also had a Vanilla form. We think of 1.x and ARR as two separate games of the same IP. So yes, they share a connection, but each game also stands on its own.

Also, Filth, you said:



You still have not explained how you possibly arrived at this conclusion. Can you pin this to ANYONE's quotes in this entire thread, or did you completely make this up? I seriously don't recall anyone saying anything remotely like this. The storyline and our characters of the two games are incredibly related. Unless I'm missing someone -- and please, provide an actual quote (in context) if I am -- this statement of yours is total garbage. I'd like to think you simply misunderstood, but all of us have been discussing ways in which the games are related to each other, so a misunderstanding seems highly unlikely.



Nope, I'm really not. I'm telling you that I disagree. I'm also telling you that it's total BS for you to prop up your views by twisting around what others say. I'm also telling you it's BS to make back-handed insults such as "If you played at any point during 1.0 then you should at least be able to understand why the game isn't new to legacy players."

News flash: You don't speak for all Legacy players; you only speak for yourself. Truth is, many Legacy players would disagree with your statement. So when you say things like that, it's just BS.


Edited, Aug 20th 2015 10:55am by Thayos

I think you are reaching. I think you're reaching really far for this. Because we're not denying the accomplishment that A Realm Reborn achieved. None of us are. In fact, it may be argued that you are, by not giving FFXIV the clean slate it worked its **** off for and that many players have given them.

FFXIV 1.xx's chapter ended with the launch of a Realm Reborn. That client closed for the final time when they finally shut down the 1.23b servers. A new client rose to take the mantle and to transform the identity of FFXIV into something profoundly better than it was. It feels like you're not acknowledging what it took to do that, how far they actually went to achieve that reversal of opinion - which was, in its most simple form - make a new game with old assets.

It's that level of work put into the ordeal that I cannot agree with the foundation of your argument that Heavensward = Chains of Promethia in terms of development process. That, I feel, is what truly disrespects the IRL story of ARR.

A new client that I use to access new servers that hold all of my old character data from 5 years ago?

Joking aside, it's not that I don't acknowledge that it's got some new hardware and a new client Hyrist. It's just not relevant to the point I was making. The reason I have given several times now is completely unaffected by a client and server. When I logged into ARR for the first time, I literally felt like I was continuing on from 1.0 where I left off.

If I replaced the engine of my car, it would be easy for me to acknowledge that and I'd probably even say "it drives like a new car". Just like I will acknowledge that ARR runs on new servers and client. I would not say that it was a new car because it's still my old car, just with new hardware. The seat and mirrors are adjusted just how I like them, the right rear speaker still rattles when I play my favorite song and I still need to get new struts because my tires in the back are wearing unevenly.

It's not that I'm not grateful to Yoshi the mechanic for dropping a new engine in my ride, but it still feels like my ride and not a new car.


Just curious, you didn't really say anything about the lore of the game. Any reason for that?

Again, it's more about the experience than components. How it feels to sit in your car with everything set the way you liked it, speaker rattle and wobbly tires are things that you remember from your experience when you're driving your car. If it absolutely had to be about computers(which it doesn't) you'd need to come up with something about the experience of using your computer that's personal. Your wallpaper, where all of your icons are on the desktop or the way you have your keybinds mapped.

I actually haven't played mass effect. I think the last shooter I played was Battlefield 2: BC and mostly only Halo before that.


Honestly, that's all I was really looking for. There are lots of new things in the game and to someone who never played through the story of 1.0, it's completely new. For me however, it feels like a continuation.


Regarding the lore...
Do you remember the cutscene that played before 1.0 went offline? Do you remember the trailer for ARR? Have you noticed that the characters shown in the 1.0 cutscenes are the same as the models seen in the ARR cutscenes? That's because they're the same adventurers. All of the legacy players retained our stats, items, ect. because we are the same adventurers. Things like this are why it's hard for me to try and separate 1.0 from ARR. It's not that I won't accept the changes or that I don't want to credit the devs for their hard work, but it doesn't seem like it was ever the intention of the developers for us to forget.

I really only wanted to touch on the part of the story that bridges 1.0 and ARR to clarify my perspective.

Using that same lore example, however, you saw how surprised everyone was there. Sure, it was the same adventurers, but it was clearly a new adventure.

Anyways, we're talking about two different things. And I run into this once in a while with people.

I'm a bit of the devils advocate - I try to see things from perspectives not my own and then represent them as best I can. In this case the perspective I want to impress on you is that of the developer or the producer. To them, yes, it's a continuation, but it's also a new start - it was something they worked very hard to create, a new bounding point from which they could start to work on a game that would be embraced and they could develop from. The fact that you and I, as Legacy players, feel like we're an integral part of the world before ARR even started up was part of the intended goal. But I feel they also wanted to impress upon us that as much as it was a continuation, it was also a new start.

As far as Mass Effect. If you liked what 1.xx to a Realm Reborn did for your investment, you should really give that game series a shot. It invests you heavily in the characters and their struggles, as well as the overarching threat. It's one of the only series I never regretted getting all the DLC for, and it really does hone in that idea of 'attached but separate'. It's them is what got bungie to start doing more power-orientated classes and games like how they worked Destiny.

As far as the experience goes of FFXI and FFXIV, in terms of how they were developed, and how each one seems to impact you as part of the journey.

For me FFXI was very segmented. The only truly integrated story-lines were Vanilla and Zilart. CoP was its own thing and the only real tie ins happened heavily postagame and after both Zilart and CoP, and only then on a minor level.

FFXIV has done heavy investment in keeping the story of the Warrior of Light congruent from start to present, even tying in nods to Legacy members as far in as Heavensward itself. (Legacy characters get acknowledged by Count Fortemps for slaying both Nael Darnus and Gaius Belthazar.) They've really kept things interconnected.

I still don't believe we're getting anything major field wise for content. It does look like they're adding more casual stuff - however I am interested in seeing what this whole training and recruiting our own squad is. This really has me interested as it fits with my Character motief.

Still Endgame... it's really a touchy subject, because people seem to discount any content that does not affect their bottom line somehow - which is contrary for me. I'm like you Filthy, I like playing through content and the gear is means to an end. Though i do like collecting gear as well so I don't mind the grind so much. But really the fights and the battles and the various ways we have to adapt and the different people who you encounter on the second rung down from the top tier, those are all the benefits for me. I like my character getting stronger, sure. But I don't concern myself with 'progression' so much as what that progression can do for me and my adventuring.

Edited, Aug 21st 2015 1:18am by Hyrist

You and I seem to remember FFXI's stories pretty differently. I remember going though the later parts of CoP thanking Altana that I had already finished Zilart or I would have been confused as hell. Same with WoG. I was really glad I was already rank 10 in all nations and actually knew who all those people were going in. ToAU was the only one that really stood alone, barring a few humorous cameos. (and possibly any of the more recent stuff since I stopped playing how many years back now.)

Just to chime in, 1.0's characters were not a direct copy and paste. They underwent a thorough database conversion like everything else. Your path companion was lost. Your retainers were lost. All your stuff was lost and the Calamity Salvager had it. You began in starter gear. Your soul stones were lost; you had to re-learn how to be a black mage or a paladin.

1.0 characters were transformed, just like the game client, game engine, and game server design. Some parts of 1.0 characters were completely lost - all your in-game achievements were blown away and SE has hemmed and hawed about returning them, because I suspect they lost the data. Some titles were saved, and your character's basic appearance, but that's about it.

Edited, Aug 21st 2015 5:49pm by Catwho

Part of the reason why I said it feels like the conversion of Shepparrd from Mass Effect 1 - 2 All over again.

Catwho, did you ever play ME?