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XIV Heavensward Summed Up (very minor spoilers)Follow

#27 Jul 08 2015 at 8:41 AM Rating: Default
Theonehio wrote:


Now, are they new if you've never done coil before? Yes. Oppresor is Caduceus revamped, as in if you have both of them together all **** breaks loose. So to those of us who've farmed coil since 2013 it did indeed feel the same old same old, those who didn't? Yes it is new. If you look on the official forums, I don't care how white your armor is as a knight but people admitted that 3.0 thus far did feel like 2.0. Even Yoshida has said it would be like 2.0, unless you can list out every way that 3.0 has DRAMATICALLY changed gameplay and evolved from 2.0, because even the director/producer said that it wouldn't be that big of a change. Is it a change from the norm in 2.x? Definitely, it's a fresh coat of paint more than a new car altogether which is why I stated despite the hype around flying, they failed to incorporate it into dungeons or actual content which would have been amazing.

I'm just stating what I see though, because like I've said in another topic..once you do your quests in HW spots..there's nothing there but FATEs and maybe hunt marks, so unless you enjoy dungeon spams, nothing...truly changed between 2.x > 3.0 that would make it TOTALLY new. Like any major update, everything feels fresh becaue you're breaking away from your 210th Shiva Ex and 70th WoD run.
Edited, Jul 8th 2015 6:22am by Theonehio


Wow okay I will say this, re-read my post and instead of being aimed at NASH I aim it at you.

I think you need to quit XIV while you are at it, it gave new zones (Fact) new story (fact) new abilities, levels, characters, quests, dungeons (fact, fact, fact).

As for the NEW mechanics, taking some of the old mechanics and making alterations is still essentially a new mechanic required to defeating that boss - so again what I said is still fact.

Missed a great opportunity? what a load of cobblers. People like you really shouldn't be paying for a sub just to tear a game apart. They gave us a lot of NEW content and it's still isn't good enough. It's still same old same old..................
wow

Never heard such amount of crap. I'm guessing every time you play a new game - say FF - same old same old. Character A go to B kill C while D twists the plot get to play E and returns to character A and character A saves the day. Well congratulations I've just described every FF game... same old same old.... we all should just quit this waste of space game which is obviously not giving us anything new.............

Sounds like what YOU want is NEW TYPE of content not NEW content (big difference).


Edited, Jul 8th 2015 10:46am by Lonix

Edited, Jul 8th 2015 10:47am by Lonix
#28 Jul 08 2015 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Curious question. In which previous dungeon is it required to place a monster under a specifically designated, randomly generated area and kill it, leaving a status effect field that effects a wipe mechanic?

Best correlation I could find with that was a complete opposite in concept to Nerolinks so I'm curious if there was a more accurate reference.
#29 Jul 08 2015 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Lonix wrote:
Wow okay I will say this, re-read my post and instead of being aimed at NASH I aim it at you.

I think you need to quit XIV while you are at it, it gave new zones (Fact) new story (fact) new abilities, levels, characters, quests, dungeons (fact, fact, fact).

As for the NEW mechanics, taking some of the old mechanics and making alterations is still essentially a new mechanic required to defeating that boss - so again what I said is still fact


Hm..nope. I don't need to quit FFXIV just because I can admit that nothing was dramatically different. Also, stop telling people to quit for that reason, it's like telling people to quit playing shooters because they all progress the same and make a comment about it. Ever notice why when some make an awesome new spin on the classic formula they get tons of praise? There's a reason for that.

By your definition, the rock I step on in Hinterlands is new. The rock I step on in forelands is new. Yes, it's "new", but in terms of what is done? You were stating it was like saying it was a NEW introduction, and I was simply stating, if you never did 2.x content fully yes it is new.

Quote:
Missed a great opportunity? what a load of cobblers. People like you really shouldn't be paying for a sub just to tear a game apart. They gave us a lot of NEW content and it's still isn't good enough. It's still same old same old..................



People like me...shouldn't be paying a sub and playing a game because.....I was hoping to see them INCORPORATE THE THING THEY HYPED THE MOST ABOUT THE EXPANSION IN MORE GAMEPLAY?

You definitely..have an interesting ideology, because I can promise you I'm not the only person that would have loved to seen more done with flying. They gave us new dungeons...they also gave us new pathway to walk through. They also gave us new trees to look at. That wasn't the point. Everything is new when playing semantics, it wasn't even tearing the game apart.

It's a simple statement: It would have made some dungeons so much more awesome if flying was involved. We go through all the trouble to get fight and there's really..no use for it after you're done with the zone. Yea it's faster travel..but..don't you honestly feel there coulda been more to it? That's why I said in 3.1 maybe it'll be shaken up..I mean they hyped up FC airships and it's just a retainer you have to sink gil and time into in order to do ventures for now but I bet you'll say I'm just tearing it apart when I can also promise you a lot of people wanted to actually FLY the airships ..not just do ventures with them.

Quote:
Never heard such amount of crap. I'm guessing every time you play a new game - say FF - same old same old.


Actually.

When I played FFI, I enjoyed it. Played FFII, it was the same yet expanded because they got comfortable with development and what do you know, the gameplay was similar yet quite different including the infamous kill your party members to level more effectively. FFIII they introduced the JOB SYSTEM to the game which changed up the gameplay, then came IV, V,VI and so on. Every time I play a new FF game, I expect similarties but I also play them to see how they expand on something great and usually, they do go above and beyond. When I'm playing FFV I'm not playing FFI with say, a dragon mount. I'm playing FFV. Using your example of a new FF game that is.

They said this was an expansion..so yes, I did expect a bit more in terms of being more of an evolution. Yeah, Skill Speed/Spell Speed changed and such...but expansion wise? Eh..it just feels more like a patch, which I said, if you actually read, everything we got was perfectly fine for an extremely large patch. That's just the style of this game, which I also said is NEITHER good nor bad.

You're too busy ready to jump to the defense when no one was belittling or berating it. I even explained: If you barely did 2.x content, it will feel new, it will feel like nothing you seen before, but if you DID do it, once you step into Alexander 3 and the fight progresses and you see tethers go out and you DID do content, you will be like:

"Oh look tethers,,where have I seen this before?"

That yellow tether that creates an AoE around you? It's known as a mix of Tethers from Kalliya in Turn 11 and Ravensbeak from T9 meaning we have seen it before, but my point was explaining why someone would feel it's the same old same old, that's what happens when IN GENERAL, the design didn't change that much. It's PERFECTLY normal to feel that way.

Quote:
Sounds like what YOU want is NEW TYPE of content not NEW content (big difference).


Actually it's not a big difference. Heavensward - "Hey look the THEME OF THIS EXPANSION IS FLIGHT", ok so...why not have a dungeon, even if its optional, have flight in it?

Why is that wrong to expect them to follow the THEME OF THE EXPANSION in its content?

Hyrist wrote:
Curious question. In which previous dungeon is it required to place a monster under a specifically designated, randomly generated area and kill it, leaving a status effect field that effects a wipe mechanic?

Best correlation I could find with that was a complete opposite in concept to Nerolinks so I'm curious if there was a more accurate reference.


It's the same idea of the 'meteor'/spire mechanics from Syrcus/WoD/Turn 12/Turn 13/Singularity Core where. Basically you need something there to do said mechanic, which is why I said it's basically a variation of that mechanic, which is why within the first 30 minutes of doing a lot of people immediately knew what needed to be done, but not that it needed it to be the pools off the bat, but knew it was basically a meteor mechanic.

Edited, Jul 8th 2015 8:14am by Theonehio
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#30 Jul 08 2015 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
I actually see where Hio is coming from, but I just don't see things in such extremes. I mean... if we're going to break everything down into its simplest possible forms, then we all might as well quit playing, move into the mountains, build shelters out of sticks and forage off the land. Because just about everything in this world -- and I mean everything -- is the evolution of someone else's great idea.

I did all of coil except for t12 and t13, and while parts of Alexander reminded me of coil (such as floor 1/turn 1 with having to split bosses), the fights really had nothing else in common. Floor 1 has no platforms/snakes, the bosses don't hit like dump trucks, tanks don't get stacking debuffs, etc. The success of F1 is much more dependent on the placement of adds beneath missiles by DPS. There's no question that F1 (story mode) is much easier than T1 was at release, but it's supposed to be... it's story mode. And right now, there are mechanics of Alexander that simply aren't very punishing, so I don't think people are even thinking about them yet... but come savage mode, I'm pretty sure every single wrinkle of these fights will stand out quite harshly.

Anyway, we could go on and on reviewing the similarities and differences between the various fights.

I, too, finished all four floors of Alexander last night. Had a great time, too! The first three floors were easily cleared in the DF -- needed two attempts at F1 (enrage timer), then a few attempts for F2 and F3. My DF group wiped at F4, so then I joined a learning party for F4 in the PF. I think it took us five attempts, and each time we got better at managing the different mechanics... when we finally won, everyone thanked each other for the great time. And really, it was tons of fun!

I love that they've opened the doors on this content to people who don't want to spend several weeks bashing their heads against their keyboards just to beat one fight. Alexander, for me, is what this game has been missing... raid-style content that a FC can jump in and farm -- without any pressure to exclude anyone not in a specific static -- and without having to stress over every little damn thing. Despite what you read on the forums, Alexander is not "faceroll" content... winning still requires people to do their jobs. It just doesn't require everyone to be perfect.

Edited, Jul 8th 2015 8:31am by Thayos
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#31 Jul 08 2015 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Indeed, I never said it's a bad thing because I liked it, I was just saying how someone could see/feel it's the 'same old same old" because largely, it's nothing new, it's a fun distraction, I was hoping for more involved with flight, but as said, maybe come 3.1 things will change. 3.0 much like 2.0 largely felt like the tutorial level.

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#32 Jul 08 2015 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
I agree, it's nothing new.

but I LIKED the old so I'm happy as a clam, pretty much
#33 Jul 08 2015 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
I actually wonder if more people will get involved in savage mode, assuming the fights carry over most mechanics from story mode.

That's what I really hated about coil... you pretty much HAD to be in a static in order to learn the fights, because the process of "learning" in coil was basically rapid-fire losing while everyone slowly mastered each subsequent mechanic. Bring anyone new into the mix, and often you had to restart the death frenzy in order to get the new person "caught up." It was almost like being on a treadmill, with timely progress being insanely difficult unless you ran with the same people each time.

With story-mode Alexander as an intermediary, perhaps the learning curve for Savage won't be so poorly thought out.
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#34 Jul 08 2015 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah and as they said:

"Extreme/Savage mode are just the original fights where as Normal/Hard are the fights with mechanics stripped out." Kind of like Savage T9 iirc you had to deal with meteors in far more phases than the actual fight. Similar to 1.23's Rivenroad.

Personally though, I wouldn't touch it if it only drops parts like story mode does lol. I'd like the challenge but if its just repeating for the same loot system no point, even if the ilvl is higher. They say it's different so in a day or two we'll probably find out how.
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#35 Jul 08 2015 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
Hyrist wrote:
Curious question. In which previous dungeon is it required to place a monster under a specifically designated, randomly generated area and kill it, leaving a status effect field that effects a wipe mechanic?

Best correlation I could find with that was a complete opposite in concept to Nerolinks so I'm curious if there was a more accurate reference.

(I haven't reached this new content yet but) is it perhaps a little like the Clockwork Squires in ST? The area isn't randomly generated there, but it's a very specific kill zone or it's a wipe.
#36 Jul 08 2015 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Again I wasn't insunating anything by the question. I just felt that particular mechanic that I witnessed in a video felt pretty deviant from the other mechanic's I've seen. Even the Meteor mechanics in ST and Crystalis diddn't compare because again, it forced enemy placement in comparison to person placement to prevent raid-wide damage, and when the monster was placed/slain there, it was then still a hazard.

Anyways, I'm all for slight variations and deviations. I didn't buy multiple Megman and Castlevania games because they were wildly different from one another, but because they were familiar and entertaining, and the enemy patterns were different enough to remain entertaining.

I rather have improvement from refinement than rolling the dice on outright revolution every time we revisit a concept. Yes, I don't mind the occasional wild deviations, but all and all Heavensward has felt like an improvement on what we were given with A Realm Reborn and that's ok by me.

As far as Hio goes. It's already been clear to me that her writing is simply more abrasive than her actual tone and mood. And I promised her I would keep that in consideration. Again, she did say she enjoyed the mechanics. Though I do disagree on the loot system. Sorry, but I like the idea of firm progress and more opportunities to attempt to get the gear, even if those more opportunities are contested.

Soon as my GF and I are finished with Main Story I'll likely be gearing up with the intent to go into Alex Story Mode. Still unclear if I can or will go into Savage, that may be beyond what I can do with my work schedule.
#37 Jul 08 2015 at 4:55 PM Rating: Default
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That's exactly why I like the FF series and why I was never one of the "omfg XIII sucks!" camp of people because despite the large shift, it still played like most of the "modern" FF games with XII being the exception. Part of why I enjoyed Alexander was because it was mechanics we were already juggling just in a different format. It's like how in Zelda games you slowly progression using everything you learned and the final segment requires your knowledge (and tools) from the 'past' to get through it.

My gripe with the loot is they have better systems in place with the new EX primals they coulda use :l
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#38 Jul 08 2015 at 5:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mind if I ask what you had in mind for that? I'm guessing you mean everyone gets a token, and a certain number of tokens nets you a piece of gear.

I'm guessing in this sense what they still wanted to instill was a sense of rarity - but talking academically for a moment: Would you have been ok if the prices for these pieces when it came to collecting Cogs be much higher? Say, requiring you to get more cogs, but you had more cogs guaranteed to drop to you?
#39 Jul 08 2015 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, was kind of hoping it would sort of be a chance of gear to drop but everyone gets a token and you'll need x amount of tokens for whichever piece, Considering the wildly different values for pieces atm (1/2/4) I would be fine with it being higher since you'll likely be redoing certain sections quite a few times hoping for a guaranteed drop like a lot of us are no doubt guilty in doing during the CT saga lockout days. Kind of how after you complete all 4 they can offer a free bolt for the quest completion, so in a sense you can already walk away with 2-3 pieces completed the very first week as of now.

So while the loot system isn't bad, I just hate how it seems they move onto that type of token system in new EX primals then revert to weekly lockout 1 item per section loot rules. So it's not bad, it's just..I'd hope it would have followed suit, or even be on a kind of nyzul/einherjar type currency system where you just get currency after completing the run (that can be boosted by performance.) They mentioned that the Savage loot system will be different, so hopefully in a few days we'll learn how.
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#40 Jul 09 2015 at 3:34 AM Rating: Default
Thayos wrote:
I actually see where Hio is coming from, but I just don't see things in such extremes. I mean... if we're going to break everything down into its simplest possible forms, then we all might as well quit playing, move into the mountains, build shelters out of sticks and forage off the land. Because just about everything in this world -- and I mean everything -- is the evolution of someone else's great idea.
Edited, Jul 8th 2015 8:31am by Thayos


Exactly. This was what I was going to respond with but couldn't be bothered to go back through my post and re-edit.

I don't know why people play this game if that's what they want to do, tear the game apart and claim every thing reminds them of something else. That's like playing the recent Fifa game which is the same as the others or even COD then complaining that every element is similar to previous ones. I play a game to enjoy the similarity, new stuff, story and because I enjoy that type of game.

I did Alex 1-3 last night and there were elements very similar to T1-10 which I've got experience in all. BUT there were elements that I had not seen before like what happened in Alex 2. All those elements combined and I wont go in to details without releasing spoilers because the fact I didn't have any pre-knowledge of what was coming. Was even more fun for me.

There was one element in Alex 2 which I had not seen before so I guess that element is coming in 11-13 because if it isn't it is brand new and not done before. Its new raids with new content and frankly I don't see how anyone can argue that its all recycled. A lot of the stuff at the end of HW has felt more coil because of the intensity and not simply dodge dodge do your job dodge dodge.

Again I agree though Alex, story mode is exactly what people like us and lets face it we are probably more of the majority. Not here to whizz through to 60 within 24 hours, get the content in a static done but instead playing the game at our own pace and actually enjoy it not complain about it.

The end result is what matters which is the enjoyment and I absolutely loved going through Alex 1-3 last night. Even attempted Bismarck Ex sadly DC and wouldn't let me back on so gave up. Was annoyingly fun though!

I am getting incredibly defensive over HW because it's the same 5 people whining about that its nothing new, same old same old, not good enough, not hard and is "so easy". Again I don't know why these people are wasting their time playing this game just to tear it apart. 3.0 is here to stay just like 2.0 was, if you don't like how this game has been set out I suggest you quit. OR I look forward to having this same discussion when 4.0 comes out and my response will probably be the same.

Edited, Jul 9th 2015 5:38am by Lonix
#41 Jul 09 2015 at 5:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:

Hm..nope. I don't need to quit FFXIV just because I can admit that nothing was dramatically different. Also, stop telling people to quit for that reason, it's like telling people to quit playing shooters because they all progress the same and make a comment about it. Ever notice why when some make an awesome new spin on the classic formula they get tons of praise? There's a reason for that.

People like me...shouldn't be paying a sub and playing a game because.....I was hoping to see them INCORPORATE THE THING THEY HYPED THE MOST ABOUT THE EXPANSION IN MORE GAMEPLAY?

You definitely..have an interesting ideology, because I can promise you I'm not the only person that would have loved to seen more done with flying. They gave us new dungeons...they also gave us new pathway to walk through. They also gave us new trees to look at. That wasn't the point. Everything is new when playing semantics, it wasn't even tearing the game apart.

It's a simple statement: It would have made some dungeons so much more awesome if flying was involved. We go through all the trouble to get fight and there's really..no use for it after you're done with the zone. Yea it's faster travel..but..don't you honestly feel there coulda been more to it? That's why I said in 3.1 maybe it'll be shaken up..I mean they hyped up FC airships and it's just a retainer you have to sink gil and time into in order to do ventures for now but I bet you'll say I'm just tearing it apart when I can also promise you a lot of people wanted to actually FLY the airships ..not just do ventures with them.

They said this was an expansion..so yes, I did expect a bit more in terms of being more of an evolution. Yeah, Skill Speed/Spell Speed changed and such...but expansion wise? Eh..it just feels more like a patch, which I said, if you actually read, everything we got was perfectly fine for an extremely large patch. That's just the style of this game, which I also said is NEITHER good nor bad.

Actually it's not a big difference. Heavensward - "Hey look the THEME OF THIS EXPANSION IS FLIGHT", ok so...why not have a dungeon, even if its optional, have flight in it?

Why is that wrong to expect them to follow the THEME OF THE EXPANSION in its content?

I'm confused what you mean by wanting more done with flying. Do you mean:
A) More destinations to fly to
B)Dungeon traversal on flying mount
C)Actual mechanics implemented while on mount during dungeon fights(sort of like GW2 has underwater combat after adding swimming)
D)All of the above
E)Other

One thing the online FF are missing compared to their offline counter parts are the adventure sequences that change mechanics like the bike in FFVII, the raft in FFVI,etc. The only instance I remember seeing something similar in 14 is the dungeon where everyone can get on a magitek armor. Forgot what dungeon that was.

Keep in mind that the development pattern with this team is not shock and awe and get everything out and right in one shot. They go the iterative route. For example, first you got to ride a chocobo, then you got a companion chocobo, later you got breeding, then you got gold saucer racing. Maybe next would be chocobo jousting or special area traversal or mounted combat.



If you were talking about actual mechanics with flight fighting. I don't know if SE would do it or not?
#42 Jul 09 2015 at 6:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Lonix wrote:
I am getting incredibly defensive over HW because it's the same 5 people whining about that its nothing new, same old same old, not good enough, not hard and is "so easy". Again I don't know why these people are wasting their time playing this game just to tear it apart. 3.0 is here to stay just like 2.0 was, if you don't like how this game has been set out I suggest you quit. OR I look forward to having this same discussion when 4.0 comes out and my response will probably be the same.

Edited, Jul 9th 2015 5:38am by Lonix


You don't read many forums nor have you interacted with many people that play the game unless you have a character maxed out on every single server- A lot of people agree, including the guy HEADING the FFXIV project as he stated prior to launch to not expect any groundbreaking changes to the current design. I even implored to you to list out how groundbreakingly different HW is to 2.x, including the reused FATE and Guildleve systems - How do they different from their 2.x counterpart? How do the treasure maps differ from their 2.x counterpart? This is exactly why I said as of 3.0 there's really nothing different, you're the one who decided it was a bad thing.

Since according to you it's only 5 people out of the entire 1-2m playerbase "whining" about FFXIV. Good luck with that my friend.

sandpark wrote:
I'm confused what you mean by wanting more done with flying. Do you mean:
A) More destinations to fly to
B)Dungeon traversal on flying mount
C)Actual mechanics implemented while on mount during dungeon fights(sort of like GW2 has underwater combat after adding swimming)
D)All of the above
E)Other

One thing the online FF are missing compared to their offline counter parts are the adventure sequences that change mechanics like the bike in FFVII, the raft in FFVI,etc. The only instance I remember seeing something similar in 14 is the dungeon where everyone can get on a magitek armor. Forgot what dungeon that was.

Keep in mind that the development pattern with this team is not shock and awe and get everything out and right in one shot. They go the iterative route. For example, first you got to ride a chocobo, then you got a companion chocobo, later you got breeding, then you got gold saucer racing. Maybe next would be chocobo jousting or special area traversal or mounted combat.

If you were talking about actual mechanics with flight fighting. I don't know if SE would do it or not?


Yep, that's why I said maybe in 3.1 things will finally change, but since they said flight is the main theme for this expansion, I was indeed hoping for more mechanics using flight involved in at least an optional dungeon, something to really..give a purpose to flight that we normally, as said, have very little use for by time we fully unlock it due to storyline block on a current or two which by then the game pushes us into the next zone. That dungeon was praetorim and part of what I was referring to: At that segment it gave us battle mounts in the dungeon, which was fitting for the theme of the 2.0 relaunch because we were raiding and trying to get rid of the Garleans, so hopping into a repurposed Magitek Reaper was a cool mechanic.

Something they could have done for a dungeon in 3.0 after we've fully unlocked flight and got our tiny bronco/manaclipper.
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#43 Jul 09 2015 at 8:24 AM Rating: Default
Theonehio wrote:

You don't read many forums nor have you interacted with many people that play the game unless you have a character maxed out on every single server-


VERY Big assumption there, doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise that the amount of people complaining is few. Prove to me otherwise (like when 1.0 was released there was nothing but a storm by critics/reviews and fans no matter what site you went to).

I assume YOU do visit a lot of sites and they all complain and are angry at the state of 3.0?

Theonehio wrote:

A lot of people agree, including the guy HEADING the FFXIV project as he stated prior to launch to not expect any groundbreaking changes to the current design. I even implored to you to list out how groundbreakingly different HW is to 2.x, including the reused FATE and Guildleve systems - How do they different from their 2.x counterpart? How do the treasure maps differ from their 2.x counterpart? This is exactly why I said as of 3.0 there's really nothing different, you're the one who decided it was a bad thing.


Right – I think you need to actually read what I type, not having trouble reading? I for one have not used the term ground-breaking as far as I know, I’ve also not said every little bit of HW was brand spanking new. What I have been saying is it did give us a lot of new stuff. Which is either fact or not.
New zones
New jobs
New abilities
New story
New characters
New mounts
New minions
New gear
New music

It really doesn’t matter if some of the above was recycled, like the Gear for example. Some pieces were very recycled from previous pieces I did or didn’t like. I simply play the parts I enjoy or grind through the ones I don’t, I certainly didn’t enjoy the library music which is why – I turn the sound off.

Theonehio wrote:

Since according to you it's only 5 people out of the entire 1-2m playerbase "whining" about FFXIV. Good luck with that my friend.


Again a ridiculous assumption, you are taking what I say and turning it in to what you want it to mean and not for the first time. Who would really think I know the entire player base? But I could turn that back by saying that perhaps you do and they are all obviously unhappy about the state of the game?.

Will also add, if you seriously are playing this game just to moan about it – the ones actually laughing is SE and players like me. You continue to throw your money at a game you obviously don’t enjoy or want to enjoy. I assume you are sticking around just to complain about it and coming across as a troll – report that term if you wish.

You said that SE admitted that nothing “ground breaking” is coming yet to wanted it to? And moan that it didn’t? I think you need to buck your ideas mate.

Thanks for proving my point though that I’ve been saying quite a while about the whiners, must be utter mugs to throw money at something that isn’t really going to change for some time.

Cheers and have a pint on me while I continue to enjoy HW.


Edited, Jul 9th 2015 10:53am by Lonix
#44 Jul 09 2015 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Lonix wrote:
Congratulations for proving my exact point that I've been making all along, also where did I say ground breaking? I've thrown compliments to a game which has become a success from ratings/critics and fans. I am in a large LS of must be 100+ and even the pragmatic few are actually happy about HW has been.


My main is in an extremely large FC (70 members) and 2 LSs wit 210 people combined and my alt is in one that is 33 Members + 4 LS wit 470 people combined and a lot enjoyed it, but a lot also said they feel it wasn't that different from ARR and aside Alexander, they start to lose the urge to play because they were hoping there would have been something other than falling back into the FATE/Tome farm cycle like you did majority of 2.x.

I say "groundbreaking" because by definition, would mean something extremely different, innovative, basically "HW isn't like ARR because.." You however take it as a bad thing that some people honestly feel it's nothing different, when it's neither good nor bad because some like familiarity, which is why "WoW clones" are always wanted whenever someone tries to go beyond the norm. Some want a sense that the game is evolving. It kind of feels the fact people eventually funneled back into North Thanalan for Fates rather than running dungeons and such (even large scale leves) is kind of telling. While some do it for faster xp, the fact that HW areas doesn't really...hold you means it's essentially the same as 2.x. This is why, yet again, I said 3.1 is likely when we'll finally start seeing what they had in mind for 3.x.

Quote:
One thing I learnt which I assume you have zero clue about in your reactions - when something is that bad, mass amount of people whine about it. When one or two posters - which lets face it on here it's the same 3 people complaining - it does say it all.


Assumptions are a funny thing - When something is bad, especially with MMOs, especially if they get bored.....

This may shock you but:

Some people simply just stop logging on due to that without a word or discussion. They don't ALWAYS have to voice their opinion, they'll simply stop logging in rather than voice WHY they did. Instead of voicing why and what made them bored/logging in, they go somewhere else and come back in an update and guess what? Even Yoshi admits people do that because he himself have done it in his time as an MMO gamer. So don't say I have "no clue about it" when it's actually MORE COMMON for people to just flatout stop playing something than they are to voice their opinions. This is why the "vocal minority" is usually loudest, because you have people who are either content with everything so they have no reason to post, you have people who don't use social media or game forums AT ALL, or you have people who don't voice their opinions and just stop playing. This is why when you do get people who voice their opinions, especially if they aren't all positive, they get torn apart because they're up against either the ones who love it and find nothing wrong with it and the ones who have no opinion at all as they aren't partaking in the community.

Quote:
Still thanks for proving all my previous points being spot on for the last few weeks


I've yet to see anything in your arguments proven. Actually, the only thing that seems to have been proven is you feel the community here encompasses a lot of the playerbase when sadly, that isn't true..not even on the official forums does it encompass a good portion of the playerbase. However, nothing "says all" when it comes to the forums and more the game itself, which is heavily dependant on the server cluster. I can look at my main FC and see people who haven't logged in for 10-200+ days that I personally know are still active elsewhere, just not in XIV. So if "only x posters who are complaining compared to many others who aren't" type of thing "tells all", the fact I can see quite a lot of people who haven't played in a long time also "tells all."

Edited, Jul 9th 2015 7:50am by Theonehio
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#45 Jul 09 2015 at 8:57 AM Rating: Default
sandpark wrote:

Keep in mind that the development pattern with this team is not shock and awe and get everything out and right in one shot. They go the iterative route. For example, first you got to ride a chocobo, then you got a companion chocobo, later you got breeding, then you got gold saucer racing. Maybe next would be chocobo jousting or special area traversal or mounted combat.


This is exactly what I said a long time ago, if people want to play this game and find a ton of content and a ton of type of content. They should leave and come back in a few years time. The game although is quite old, technically it's since 2.0. How will the game be with 3-4 expansions but I am sure those whiners will still complain...

XIV got re-released because it was a failure as was shown (what I mentioned just seconds ago) by critics/reviews and fans. It wasn't just one or two whiners or even the occasional troll. It was pages and pages of complaints, tearing the game a apart. When something is actually that bad - most people jump on that band wagon. And sorry to say that is a fact.

3.0 is a good game and again this is shown by what I said.

People just want to troll, it's sad but true. Hard life sitting in their Parents basement hidden away from the real world.

Edited, Jul 9th 2015 10:59am by Lonix

Edited, Jul 9th 2015 11:17am by Lonix
#46 Jul 09 2015 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
Theonehio wrote:

My main is in an extremely large FC (70 members) and 2 LSs wit 210 people combined and my alt is in one that is 33 Members + 4 LS wit 470 people combined and a lot enjoyed it, but a lot also said they feel it wasn't that different from ARR and aside Alexander, they start to lose the urge to play because they were hoping there would have been something other than falling back into the FATE/Tome farm cycle like you did majority of 2.x.


Well if they are anything like you, I assume that’s like 400 mugs throwing their money at a game they obviously don’t want to play? Also.. with so many I assume you have time to actually talk to them. Again with so many alts/LS’s.. sounds like you don’t have a life outside of XIV. Which also explains everything. Thanks

Theonehio wrote:

I say "groundbreaking" because by definition, would mean something extremely different, innovative, basically "HW isn't like ARR because.." You however take it as a bad thing that some people honestly feel it's nothing different, when it's neither good nor bad because some like familiarity, which is why "WoW clones" are always wanted whenever someone tries to go beyond the norm. Some want a sense that the game is evolving. It kind of feels the fact people eventually funneled back into North Thanalan for Fates rather than running dungeons and such (even large scale leves) is kind of telling. While some do it for faster xp, the fact that HW areas doesn't really...hold you means it's essentially the same as 2.x. This is why, yet again, I said 3.1 is likely when we'll finally start seeing what they had in mind for 3.x.


So…. Again proving my point of what I’ve been saying which isn’t ground-breaking. As someone else said if you tear something apart you will find you will rarely use the word ground-breaking but instead similar to something else. Especially with MMO/RPG which is something I said you are doing and again proving my point in the quote above.

Theonehio wrote:

This may shock you but:
Some people simply just stop logging on due to that without a word or discussion. They don't ALWAYS have to voice their opinion, they'll simply stop logging in rather than voice WHY they did. Instead of voicing why and what made them bored/logging in, they go somewhere else and come back in an update and guess what? Even Yoshi admits people do that because he himself have done it in his time as an MMO gamer. So don't say I have "no clue about it" when it's actually MORE COMMON for people to just flatout stop playing something than they are to voice their opinions. This is why the "vocal minority" is usually loudest, because you have people who are either content with everything so they have no reason to post, you have people who don't use social media or game forums AT ALL, or you have people who don't voice their opinions and just stop playing. This is why when you do get people who voice their opinions, especially if they aren't all positive, they get torn apart because they're up against either the ones who love it and find nothing wrong with it and the ones who have no opinion at all as they aren't partaking in the community.


1..2..3 Not shocked at all, we have some who have not logged on, some who quit, some who switched server. That’s the norm wait for it….. shocker – MMO. Some even were not happy about 2.0 and didn’t come back, instead I take what SE says which is this game is a success and that’s one fact you can’t hide from. Regardless of what I or you say that part is a fact.

Theonehio wrote:

I've yet to see anything in your arguments proven. Actually, the only thing that seems to have been proven is you feel the community here encompasses a lot of the playerbase when sadly, that isn't true..not even on the official forums does it encompass a good portion of the playerbase. However, nothing "says all" when it comes to the forums and more the game itself, which is heavily dependant on the server cluster. I can look at my main FC and see people who haven't logged in for 10-200+ days that I personally know are still active elsewhere, just not in XIV. So if "only x posters who are complaining compared to many others who aren't" type of thing "tells all", the fact I can see quite a lot of people who haven't played in a long time also "tells all."


That’s fine, you have clearly missed every point I’ve been trying to make. That’s been the major difference between us, I’ve taken every word you have said and actually agreed with you on some parts. Thing is though, you are still looking like this game isnt for you and still throwing your money at it. Sorry to say but in real life that’s called a hypocrite. Like these people who vote a government in to power then complain about their policies…. When they knew very well what was coming. Just wondering – do you like fruit at all? If you don’t, do you still buy it and eat it then complain that you don’t like it?

It’s okay though understanding what I have been trying to say this whole time is clearly beyond you. I’ve quoted other posters to exactly what I’ve been saying (one just seconds ago). If you still struggling to understand perhaps you can go back to your LS which must be full to the brim of people that clearly are paying for something that is incredibly poor and another WoW clone (which sorry to say it’s not).


Edited, Jul 9th 2015 11:14am by Lonix
#47 Jul 09 2015 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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While I am enjoying 3.0 immensely with all the new 50-60 abilities, jobs, zones, storyline, music, dungeons, raid etc I do have to admit that I'm a little disappointed there isn't something really more unique about 3.0. Don't get me wrong, I've logged in every day since early access and all I can think about right now is logging in when I get home from work.

I think I was hoping for some new (umm, I can't think of the word) systems?

Flying awesome and fun but it is really just a new kind of travel. I do like how they implemented unlocking it for each zone. It would be neat if it was somehow incorporated into some other content. The sightseeing vistas are more interesting/easier to find now with flying.

They added new jobs but they still fall into the holy trinity however they do seem a little more complicated than old jobs which is a good thing IMO.

Dungeons are dungeons, nothing really super new and exciting about any of our 8 nor the 'hard' primal fights. I do enjoy all of them but they aren't exactly interesting in design and none really have very much complexity.

I've only cleared the first 2 floors of Alex but while there are some neat mechanics in there it again is somewhat more of the same. I had a pug healer say that floor 2 was 'boring' on the day it came out... The loot token system is newish I guess.

There are new things that are unique to 3.0. There is the collectibles system for crafting and gathering. We didn't have that before. FC crafting is housing glamour and airships mostly but it is still a new system we didn't have before.

Airships are pretty much very expensive Retainer Ventures (so far) but while not thrilling we are still enjoying sending our ships out. I'm hoping the grow the airship content into something really fun and unique.

It is pretty easy to list your daily in-game activities and the majority of them are basically the same as 2.0:
  • Do Daily Cactpot
  • Do roulette
  • Level jobs
  • Gather/Craft
  • Do current raid/extreme primal
I don't think there is anything wrong in wishing for more.

Wow reading my post it comes across as way more negative than how I really feel about the game. I am enjoying the current state of the game but I totally understand both sides who see it all as new and exciting as well as those who see it as more of the same.

Edited, Jul 9th 2015 5:04pm by Yelta
#48 Jul 09 2015 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yelta wrote:
Wow reading my post it comes across as way more negative than how I really feel about the game. I am enjoying the current state of the game but I totally understand both sides who see it all as new and exciting as well as those who see it as more of the same.


Not negative at all and you're pretty much in the position I am. I enjoy it but I felt...it could just be something more. Maybe it's because I've been on both sides of the equation (development and playing) but it's just when you sit there and it start feeling like the same pattern from 2.x, of course you're going to wonder.

I'm long past the days of sitting and accepting things without thinking or analyzing it. I sit and enjoy games for what they are, but think of it this way:

If no one sat there and actually -looked- at 3.0, MCH would have never gotten a boost. They wouldn't have offered more gear in quests if people didn't want more options than crafting or dungeon only and so on. Yes some people can sit here and accept 3.0 and feel it's the alpha and omega and never doubt anything about it..but after awhile, a lot of people do tend to take a hard look at the game and that is perfectly ok. Some will express their opinions, some won't..some will flat out quit. Look at the hotfix yesterday, they got rid of zone instances purely because people are..for all intents and purposes...done with HW, so there's no need for them now that everyone went back to their usual routine.

So your post definitely wasn't negative, but some would view it as negative because you were direct about your thoughts. That's why I said 3.1 is when I truly hope we see them take the game's systems further because as of now the only interesting thing left in HW areas after you complete everything is the lunar whale like airship that occasionally pops up.
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#49 Jul 10 2015 at 2:19 AM Rating: Decent
Yelta wrote:
While I am enjoying 3.0 immensely with all the new 50-60 abilities, jobs, zones, storyline, music, dungeons, raid etc I do have to admit that I'm a little disappointed there isn't something really more unique about 3.0. Don't get me wrong, I've logged in every day since early access and all I can think about right now is logging in when I get home from work.


I would actually agree with you and you are making it clear that's what you mean. My original post went on about the fact it was a ton of new content (which is fact) but some one took that as well.. no there isn't no new content... (even though you Yelta have just listed what I listed)...

New "Type" of content which I was too a bit disappointed of not getting but if it is true that SE said it wouldn't happen, I don't know why people are disappointed to something they knew wasn't coming. I for one didn't know that was the case so if it is, it doesn't matter because I am paying for something I enjoy playing.

Managed to get Alex done last night and totally enjoyed it. Why would I pay a sub for something I didn't enjoy but then again I have my own bills to pay and a family to worry about. So I wouldn't pay for something I didn't like.

Still at the end of the day HW is getting very positive reviews especially on the story line which is being compared to the best FF story lines in 10 Years which again I would agree on. When you catch up you feel disappointed that you've finished (this was mentioned on here by one or two and in my LS the other day).

Let's face it, if your first thought is "Log on to XIV" again, that's a success story for the game. And no your post wasn't coming across as negative, you was being very specific about what your disappointment is instead of simply whining about the game being rubbish and leaving your account inactive.

Edited, Jul 10th 2015 4:27am by Lonix
#50 Jul 10 2015 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Lonix wrote:
Let's face it, if your first thought is "Log on to XIV" again, that's a success story for the game.


You also forget:

"I log in to play with/for my friends."

Which if FFXIV ARR/HW is your first MMO, you may not have known that's a thing as well and many people who've played numerous MMOs can attest to at times logging in for their friends because that may be the only venue you can interact with them. However knowing you, I bet you'll say this was a negative post.
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#51 Jul 10 2015 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
The latest Live Letter has started teasing for more content coming in 3.1 - probably in late August or September. Notably, the lionfish ship that's been swimming around Sea of Clouds will be explained.
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