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#1 Feb 11 2015 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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is it an absolute MUST that ppl be il120 to do final coil or could someone whos il110-115 be good enough to at least do teh first 3? I can imagine the last turn requiring the best gear possible.. but usually the first 3 (or in coils 1s case the first 4) arent all that difficult that you have to be ZOMG uber L##Tz" to get it done
#2 Feb 11 2015 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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You can do it in i100/110 gear if you must. It wont be pretty, but you can (given that your weapon is as high as you can get it, like i115 minimum)

But people like to take the easy way out, and the easy way simply is to have people there who already have an i135 weapon and full i120 armor with some pieces of i130.

It's the classic case of: You need the gear from Coil, but you cant join a Coil run unless you have the gear from Coil. You probably could have joined in on the first days when no one had it, now, not so much.

Solution: Either start your own Coil with 7 competent friends whom you know can bear it, or give up on it till the next update that makes all the gear irrelevant again.
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#3 Feb 11 2015 at 6:33 PM Rating: Decent
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@Duo

It's is called "Final" coil for a reason. It's also the reason Dragoons had to get a mDEF change because attacks in there were flat out killing them and there was nothing they could do.

First coil had a typical graph line of difficulty. Cadecus was a stumbler for people due to just being a gear check. ADS was the situational awareness check. Elevator was the DPS check. Twintania put it all together. It was a really smooth damage curve altogether.

Second coil dipped down on the overall difficulty for Rafflesia; it was mostly mechanics check. Melusine cranked it all up with the fight being *entirely* about situational awareness and every single facet of the fight being in the players' hands (there isn't a single wipe that was unfair or RNG driven). Avatar's damage check was tough for people just entering and gearing up through second coil, but the overall difficulty of the fight dipped down below Melusine; if you could kill her in a competent manner all you needed was the damage for Avatar and he fell over. Nael spiked the difficulty again in the same manner Twintania did for the first coil.

Final coil, however, didn't dip the difficulty down like it did for Rafflesia. You basically enter Final Coil with fights that are as difficult as Nael, but less forgiving. If you had a few people die in Nael you could recover because the enrage was generous and there was actually a lot of rest periods here and there, but people dying in Final Coil punishes you brutally -- they're not only weakened but they give the boss some sort of stacking damage buff that snowballs further (and in T11's case if you die and are tethered you just killed your partner).

So, no, all turns in Final Coil are equally difficult (and if anything Bahamut's the *easiest* of them overall).

@Kojiro

A) Yoshi-P freely stated that Coil one was expected people to gear towards i90 while progressing through the raid. He fully admitted the fights were tuned around gear the players would not have on them when starting at the beginning of launch (i70 Darklight and crafted gear). This trend continued with Second and Final Coil.

B) If you're dealing with PUGs you lose all right to ***** about their qualifications. Period.

C) You bothered to make an Excalibur and Aegis... and put Parry on them? Seriously? /facepalm
#4 Feb 11 2015 at 11:12 PM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
You can do it in i100/110 gear if you must. It wont be pretty, but you can (given that your weapon is as high as you can get it, like i115 minimum)

But people like to take the easy way out, and the easy way simply is to have people there who already have an i135 weapon and full i120 armor with some pieces of i130.

It's the classic case of: You need the gear from Coil, but you cant join a Coil run unless you have the gear from Coil. You probably could have joined in on the first days when no one had it, now, not so much.

Solution: Either start your own Coil with 7 competent friends whom you know can bear it, or give up on it till the next update that makes all the gear irrelevant again.



and T"HAT is where the retardation comes in.. I HAVE a full set of Second coil of Bahamut gear.. but theyre what? il110? whereas final coil "requires" a full set of il120? perfectly logical right?
#5 Feb 11 2015 at 11:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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whereas final coil "requires" a full set of il120?


Well of course it doesn't require 120. If it did, nobody would have been able to run it without six months of poetics farming first. But if all the groups on your server demand i120, you're kind of stuck even though it's stupid.

Contrary to the suggestion here, I don't think "give up" is the proper solution here especially since this content is obsoleted by an expansion, not another raid tier. You're not going to have time to f around with Final Coil while you're leveling to 60. The way I see it you have two real options if you want to do this content now:
1: Put yourself out there in the party finder at whatever ilvl you're at now and see if you get a nibble. I'd bet there are others on your server in a similar situation who'd want to go
2: Wait until such a party appears and then join that

Edited, Feb 11th 2015 11:45pm by Callinon
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#6 Feb 12 2015 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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it works just as the other turns did. i110 is entry level to do the first, maybe second fight of the final coil. the 3rd and final ones though are practically impossible to do at i110. you can try, but be prepared to wipe 1000 times before you do it.

it looks like this currently: final coil turn 1 = i110, turn 2 = i115, turn 3 = i120, turn 4 = i125.

can you do it before these I levels? sure you can. but the skill level of your group, and the ability to play your job needs to be top notch to compensate for lacking ilvl.
#7 Feb 12 2015 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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You can beat t10 with ilvl 110, but it is unforgiving. I beat it first time around ilvl 115. I have been using the t9 bow up until yesterday. There is an enrage timer, but the general rule is that the better you are at mechanics, the less stacks the boss gets. And less stacks = more time until he enrages. Fail the mechanics and the enrage happens faster. Better gear just makes the process more forgiving.

You can beat t11 with about 115 gear. That battle is 90% mechanics. Dodging big conal nerve gas aoe mostly. And running adds in circles, and learning how to work as a group to manage tethers.

Now t12 is a dps check. You need gear. That's where it steps up. All dps need to average about 450 to get through there. The bennu phase is punishing. I hover ilvl 123-125 dependant on gear selection and we are now learning the last phase. I do about 430 on bard in there and I'm last. Our ninja and monk are 500+ and our black mage is around 480. It requires a gear check. For the tank, bennu's hit hard and revelation is no joke. Healers get pushed to the brink during phase 2. There are hot potato mechanics... it is rough.

Edited, Feb 12th 2015 10:52am by Valkayree
#8 Feb 12 2015 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just formed a group with friends. A few of them were only 113-115 at the time, and playing roles they're not completely familiar with. We still clear T10 - T12 without any issue. Progression on T13 has been a bit slow, but it's to be expected.


Edited, Feb 12th 2015 1:36pm by Teracide
#9 Feb 12 2015 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
it works just as the other turns did. i110 is entry level to do the first, maybe second fight of the final coil. the 3rd and final ones though are practically impossible to do at i110. you can try, but be prepared to wipe 1000 times before you do it.

it looks like this currently: final coil turn 1 = i110, turn 2 = i115, turn 3 = i120, turn 4 = i125.

can you do it before these I levels? sure you can. but the skill level of your group, and the ability to play your job needs to be top notch to compensate for lacking ilvl.



well those numbers work fine because Im il110, I only want 4 pieces of iron works gear which would put me at 8 pieces of il110 and 4 pieces of il120 which would make me il113.. so i should be able to do turn 1 which has 3 items I want there.. which would put me at 118, then t2 has 1 which would put me at 120, t3 has 2 which would put me at 123, then finally t4 has 1 which would put me at 125
and thats not counting the IL boosts Id get if i get lucky and get augmentation materials needed to augment my 4 ironworks pieces to 30 and the il boost Id get from Nexus and zodiac weapons (dont have nexus yet because light grinding is way too tedious, and that light increase update wasnt even substantial).

So my "roadmap" would put me at il110-113 for t1, then il118 for t2, then il120 for t3 then il23 for t4 then when its all over and done with Id have il125 minimum (even more when i get gear augments and nexus/zodiac), so as you can see I have a plan.. I just need to find non "must have cleared/experienced only" parties to do said content with so I can reach those goals
#10 Feb 13 2015 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
(dont have nexus yet because light grinding is way too tedious, and that light increase update wasnt even substantial).


Everything is now double what it was before. I live in a world where significant = +5%, so is +100% substantial? You betcha.

You still need 2000, but:

Before:
Feeble = 1, Gentle = 2, Bright = 4, Brilliant = 6, Blinding = 12, Newborn Star = 16

Now:
Feeble = 2, Gentle = 4, Bright = 8, Brilliant = 12, Blinding = 24, Newborn Star = 32
#11 Feb 13 2015 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
Everything is now double what it was before. I live in a world where significant = +5%, so is +100% substantial? You betcha.

But do you live in Duo's world?
#12 Feb 13 2015 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
(dont have nexus yet because light grinding is way too tedious, and that light increase update wasnt even substantial).


Everything is now double what it was before. I live in a world where significant = +5%, so is +100% substantial? You betcha.

You still need 2000, but:

Before:
Feeble = 1, Gentle = 2, Bright = 4, Brilliant = 6, Blinding = 12, Newborn Star = 16

Now:
Feeble = 2, Gentle = 4, Bright = 8, Brilliant = 12, Blinding = 24, Newborn Star = 32




most ppl farm bright light thats 8.... 2000 + 8 = 250.... so if you ran a 10 min bright light fight 250 times that.. thats still 42 hours of work/grinding... so 42 hours is the length it takes to beat a standard AAA single player RPG.... imagine playing a 42 hours game that consist of nothing bu doing the same 10 minute fight over and over for 42 hours? ummmm no
#13 Feb 13 2015 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
most ppl farm bright light thats 8.... 2000 + 8 = 250.... so if you ran a 10 min bright light fight 250 times that.. thats still 42 hours of work/grinding... so 42 hours is the length it takes to beat a standard AAA single player RPG.... imagine playing a 42 hours game that consist of nothing bu doing the same 10 minute fight over and over for 42 hours? ummmm no


So I just (just now) finished my animus weapon. After actually deciding to start it the whole process took me about 2 weeks at roughly a book a day with a few gaps depending on soldiery flow and, like, my real life. Roughly 8-9 hours per book including queue times.

So that's 9 books times 9 hours = 81 hours of work for my animus weapon. Keep in mind, this is the nerfed version. I didn't do the 1500 myth/book farm. I did the 500 soldiery/book farm.

So you're saying that mathematically the nexus step should take me roughly half the time? SIGN ME UP.

At 2000 lights required, yeah you could do 250 bright Garudas... or you could do 1000 FATEs... or you could do about 64 WoD runs when it's in bonus... or you could just strap your novus weapon on and play the game, doing the bonus when you like doing what the bonus is.
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#14 Feb 13 2015 at 7:12 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
most ppl farm bright light thats 8.... 2000 + 8 = 250.... so if you ran a 10 min bright light fight 250 times that.. thats still 42 hours of work/grinding... so 42 hours is the length it takes to beat a standard AAA single player RPG.... imagine playing a 42 hours game that consist of nothing bu doing the same 10 minute fight over and over for 42 hours? ummmm no


So I just (just now) finished my animus weapon. After actually deciding to start it the whole process took me about 2 weeks at roughly a book a day with a few gaps depending on soldiery flow and, like, my real life. Roughly 8-9 hours per book including queue times.

So that's 9 books times 9 hours = 81 hours of work for my animus weapon. Keep in mind, this is the nerfed version. I didn't do the 1500 myth/book farm. I did the 500 soldiery/book farm.

So you're saying that mathematically the nexus step should take me roughly half the time? SIGN ME UP.

At 2000 lights required, yeah you could do 250 bright Garudas... or you could do 1000 FATEs... or you could do about 64 WoD runs when it's in bonus... or you could just strap your novus weapon on and play the game, doing the bonus when you like doing what the bonus is.




yeah i did the book part pre nerf too, and Im sure it took way longer than Light farming will, thing is it wasnt as tedious as I had to farm tomes for each book, then each book gave me a checklist of things to do, so I had to run 3 dungeons, hunt down and kill 10 of each specific mob, camp specific fates (like NM camping) it was like a scavenger hunt, so it was FUN although timewise Im sure it took just as long if not longer...

the current relic weapon phase also looks FUN, it might take just as long as well but it also gives you a VARIETY of things to do, so Id be fine with that phase. Its not the length of time Im complaining about (otherwise theres no way I woulda got 2 fully upgraded relics and 2 fully upgraded mythics in FFXI before evel cap incrases) its what spending that time consist of doing that bores me.
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