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Do you thin Nexus is the nmost laziest relic update yet?Follow

#1 Oct 11 2014 at 9:39 AM Rating: Default
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every other upgrade Ive been excited for.. even farming fates for 12 drops... get a new book to see what its challenges are (i never looked at guides) and completing them... fighting all the avatars for the first time for the standard relic. Even alexandrite was slightly (and I do mean SLIGHTLY..) better.. But Nexus just sounds so uninteresting and boring I cant even force myself to do it "Do random stuff until you get enough light to complete your weapon)? the only thing I get done daily is my daily quest for alexandrite (prepping for ninja) and the treasure map that comes from completing said dungeon.... thats about as much light as I get on my weapon a day. I hope the next relic upgrade is MUCH more thought out
#2 Oct 11 2014 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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- so you'll have more things to complain about with it, right?

Duo, these trends of threads from you are all old-hat. We need to make you a template to fill out so it would be more efficient for everyone involved.

No, I don't think the Nexus is the laziest Relic Update yet. I happen to know what goes behind game coding and when I hear people start calling developers lazy for making efficient design choices for their contexts, I start feeling violent urges.

It's a 5ilvl jump, for gear to work for a minor patch. It's not supposed to be involving. It's well thought out in the manner it gets players into multiple different kinds of content without being overly burdensome on the player. If any place there was to put a simple participation upgrade, it would be right here.

So no, SE did it right. It's no big hassle for new players right after one of the most pricy upgrade steps they've released to date. It gives players a time to recover their gil stores and encourages them to help others whenever possible. It was a smart decision.
#3DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Oct 11 2014 at 10:46 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) "more things to complain about" Yup because Ive been doing a LOT of that lately..... oh wait nvm... Ive hardly been posting so that would have been impossible.. and the last time I DO recall posting I remember someone saying something along the lines of "that was your best post yet" Soooo ummm maybe you should pay attention to everything and not just the negative.... unless of course you are trying out for a job at FOX NEWS.
#4 Oct 11 2014 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know if it's the laziest step of the relic quest line, but it's definitely my least favorite step of them all. It's a 5 ilvl upgrade that takes a ridiculous amount of time/runs to get... 2000 light is a LOT. My goal has been pretty modest as far as this upgrade is concerned... I'm trying to raise my light one level per week, which is 200 light a week. That still involves a ton of spamming the same trials over and over again to get there, and that gets really boring really fast. I know there are a lot of people out there who finished their nexus in mere days, but man... that must have been a miserable experience.

I suspect that as more and more people actually get to the Nexus step (there are still a TON of players who don't have a Novus) this opinion will become more and more widespread. If you're not going to hardcore farm light it's going to take a looooooong time. I actually suspect that SE may nerf it a bit come patch 2.4... they wanted it to be hard now, when an i115 weapon is top-of-the-line, but once new weapons/relic steps become available they might not want such a small upgrade to take so long. On one hand, SE has yet to nerf any of the steps (barring upgrades to myth payouts), but on the other hand if patch 2.4 has new weapons you can buy with tomestones most players will just give up on the relic questline altogether if it takes this long to complete.

Hyrist wrote:
It's well thought out in the manner it gets players into multiple different kinds of content without being overly burdensome on the player.


I think that was the thought process behind it, but that's not what really happens. Most nexus farmers just look up what's on bonus at the time and spam that for awhile.
#5 Oct 11 2014 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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The time intensive nature of any steps of the Relic questline wouldn't bother me... if they power increase were actually relevant when each part is implemented. When WDMG trumps every other stat in the game, everything is tied to iLVL, and the highest is going to come from raiding then I really don't see the point in it except for busy work.

Hit level 50. Get some cheap AH gear (if even needed) and you can queue for dungeons. Queue for ST and you can get a piece of gear or a Sands of Time. Do Hunts and you can get infinite Oils/Sands. Cap your weekly tomes for 3 weeks and you have a weapon that's equal or very, very slightly inferior (if you do proper melding with Novus) than the equivalent Novus in 1/20th of the time, at least.

It's a ****-poor thought out process and seems to have been designed for nothing more than busy work considering getting a i110 now is an extremely casual endeavor with the Weathered/Sands weapons it's extremely out of place and out of touch of reality and the flow of the game to have the Relic system be so ridiculously time consuming.

All that time is spent, basically, for something that's less than 1% difference on a parser......and blinding glow. At least in FFXI, when I finish my current Mythic I *KNOW* it'll be damned worth the effort I've put into it. Here? I don't even care to finish Novus at this point.
#6 Oct 11 2014 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Viertel wrote:
The time intensive nature of any steps of the Relic questline wouldn't bother me... if they power increase were actually relevant when each part is implemented. When WDMG trumps every other stat in the game, everything is tied to iLVL, and the highest is going to come from raiding then I really don't see the point in it except for busy work.

Hit level 50. Get some cheap AH gear (if even needed) and you can queue for dungeons. Queue for ST and you can get a piece of gear or a Sands of Time. Do Hunts and you can get infinite Oils/Sands. Cap your weekly tomes for 3 weeks and you have a weapon that's equal or very, very slightly inferior (if you do proper melding with Novus) than the equivalent Novus in 1/20th of the time, at least.

It's a ****-poor thought out process and seems to have been designed for nothing more than busy work considering getting a i110 now is an extremely casual endeavor with the Weathered/Sands weapons it's extremely out of place and out of touch of reality and the flow of the game to have the Relic system be so ridiculously time consuming.

All that time is spent, basically, for something that's less than 1% difference on a parser......and blinding glow. At least in FFXI, when I finish my current Mythic I *KNOW* it'll be damned worth the effort I've put into it. Here? I don't even care to finish Novus at this point.


Now, maybe, but that wasn't always the case. When the weathered weapons were first released it was not at all easy to get them... you could only get the UATs to buy them from T7, and the sands to upgrade them from T8, which right away makes them unobtainable to a LOT of people. While I don't remember exactly when the Atma/Animus steps were introduced I do know the pathway towards getting an Animus weapon was a lot easier than getting an upgraded soldiery weapon. Once ST was introduced getting the UATs became no problem at all but you were still stuck at i100 if you went the tomestone route. It wasn't until hunts came (and then sands were added to ST) that I think you started seeing upgraded soldiery weapons all over the place. So yeah, NOW it's a lot easier and efficient to just go that route but it definitely wasn't the case for months.

I also prefer my relic for a couple of minor reasons, personally. I like the fact that my Curtana Novus is a lot rarer of a sight then a Burtgang is because of the length of the path to get there (and this will only become more and more pronounced over time). I like the fact that I've had my Curtana equipped non-stop since I first beat Titan HM way back when to complete the relic quest for the first time. I also think it looks awesome. Granted, none of these are going to have any real affect in game or anything but they factor into my personal preference and I'm sure there are others who fall into the same category.

It does make me wonder about what weapon options 2.4 might bring. Will there be an i120 weapon available for purchase? Will they be as hard to get as the soldiery weapons originally were? I'd imagine so, but if they're not, doesn't that make the relic questline pointless for most players (if you're still stuck at an earlier step, wouldn't it be way more appealing to just buy something that is so much better)? Will there be a new step in the relic questline? If the nexus step is the last step at the time of the patch, will they stay at i115 (I wonder if they're not put there just because that's currently the highest ilvl in game...)? How will Shiva factor into this? These are things I'm interested in finding out.
#7 Oct 11 2014 at 7:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am a little surprised at the amount of vitriol I am seeing towards the Nexus upgrade process. Truth be told, I actually liked it as I worked my way to it, or at least disliked it the least.

Zenith? Straightforward as heck, just get 900 Mythology, a Thavnarian Mist, and bam, you got it.
Atma? Now that was just pain and RNG and more pain.
Animus? Might be my most disliked one in terms of grind. 15,000 Mythology, 1,000 different mobs to kill, 30 different dungeons, 30 FATEs with many of them on whacky and ridiculous timers ... really, it was just a miserable experience.
Novus? If Animus was a miserable grind, Novus was just a miserable experience due to the materia needed for it. Whether you spiritbonded your materia or bought it, you were basically just throwing gil at it non-stop. As an added bonus it basically ****** over the materia market even further for those people who actually make their i70 (or nowadays i90) gear and want to meld to it to make it all better because the prices just grew so high it wasn't worth it anymore.

So having said all that, the only thing the Nexus has going against it is the time sink. But the thing is, unlike the other stages, you actually get some added stuff in the process of getting lights. Primal ingredients or weapons to turn in to Demimateria or to make in to i95 items, a whole boat load of Mythology to throw at materials or whatever else you want to use it on, and of course you got lights almost no matter what you did.

So, yeah, Nexus? Probably the least unpleasant stage so far.

Edited, Oct 11th 2014 9:19pm by Satisiun
#8 Oct 12 2014 at 5:54 AM Rating: Default
Do you think this thread is the most laziest DuoMaxwellxx trolling thread yet?

yes
#9 Oct 12 2014 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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No matter what SE tries, they're never gonna make people like the OP happy.

To get the Relic, I remember lots of people complaining about Titan HM being the roadblock.

Then, after that, it was the Atma I heard complaints about (I can understand these complaints, though, some people going days /played without theirs)

Then it was the "omg, 1500 myth and lots of dungeons and FATEs!?"

And now it is the OP complaining.

SE can't please anybody these days, lol. Maybe SE should just hand you a free upgraded weapon every major content patch or something. Would you like that, OP?
#10 Oct 12 2014 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
Lyrailis wrote:
No matter what SE tries, they're never gonna make people like the OP happy.

To get the Relic, I remember lots of people complaining about Titan HM being the roadblock.

Then, after that, it was the Atma I heard complaints about (I can understand these complaints, though, some people going days /played without theirs)

Then it was the "omg, 1500 myth and lots of dungeons and FATEs!?"

And now it is the OP complaining.

SE can't please anybody these days, lol. Maybe SE should just hand you a free upgraded weapon every major content patch or something. Would you like that, OP?


This is why people need to step back from MMOs once in awhile. I'm currently taking a break, been about a month and will probably extend for a couple more. If everything is starting to aggravate you, it isn't fun, it's time for a break.
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#11 Oct 12 2014 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
No matter what SE tries, they're never gonna make people like the OP happy.

To get the Relic, I remember lots of people complaining about Titan HM being the roadblock.

Then, after that, it was the Atma I heard complaints about (I can understand these complaints, though, some people going days /played without theirs)

Then it was the "omg, 1500 myth and lots of dungeons and FATEs!?"

And now it is the OP complaining.

SE can't please anybody these days, lol. Maybe SE should just hand you a free upgraded weapon every major content patch or something. Would you like that, OP?


I think it has more to do with how we need to upgrade all our stuff. They are basically making people run brainless content nonstop to upgrade our weapons. Theres no value or sense of accomplishment here. I feel relieved that i finished an upgrade when i should feel excited.
#12 Oct 12 2014 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I think it has more to do with how we need to upgrade all our stuff. They are basically making people run brainless content nonstop to upgrade our weapons. Theres no value or sense of accomplishment here. I feel relieved that i finished an upgrade when i should feel excited.


Doesn't Coil drop equivalent weapons?

If so.. do you expect to get weapons as good as/nearly as good as Coil weapons handed to you with minimal effort? That doesn't sound right.

I'm no pro raider, but I don't expect to be handed full quality gear that is on par with raid gear, either.
#13 Oct 12 2014 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
I feel relieved that i finished an upgrade when i should feel excited.


THIS!!! So much this.
#14 Oct 12 2014 at 4:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
Quote:
I think it has more to do with how we need to upgrade all our stuff. They are basically making people run brainless content nonstop to upgrade our weapons. Theres no value or sense of accomplishment here. I feel relieved that i finished an upgrade when i should feel excited.


Doesn't Coil drop equivalent weapons?

If so.. do you expect to get weapons as good as/nearly as good as Coil weapons handed to you with minimal effort? That doesn't sound right.

I'm no pro raider, but I don't expect to be handed full quality gear that is on par with raid gear, either.

This is where I tend to take offense to the raider mentality and the downplaying of effort involved. Yes, it may indeed be lots of menial work, but it is STILL work (And not to be confused with the purpose of gaming, fun). Like some have noted, when looking to the overall Relic process now, I think to myself the end result could probably stand to be better than it is if SE wants to keep all of these requirements as they are. Otherwise, I suppose it fits snugly in their contradictory "can only be good at 1 or 2 jobs per major patch cycle" with respect to the fact we could be all classes on a single character. Eventually this crap is going to hit a point where anyone coming into the game late or returning after a long absence isn't even going to look into these weapons without adjustments of some kind.

Then again, I completely hate the terminology of things like relics and epics. It automatically carries with it a stigma that they have to be hard to get and/or rare even if the end result doesn't live up to the classification. Makes me wonder how players would react to things if no colors were involved with gear. :/
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#15 Oct 12 2014 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Lyrailis wrote:
No matter what SE tries, they're never gonna make people like the OP happy


Then again on the flip side, there's far too many who will accept ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING SE throws at them.
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#16 Oct 12 2014 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
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Theonehio wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
No matter what SE tries, they're never gonna make people like the OP happy


Then again on the flip side, there's far too many who will accept ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING SE throws at them.


There's a realm between blind acceptance and bitter denouncement of everything that begs for adequate attention from the internet.

EDIT: Double Quote Action Attack!

Edited, Oct 12th 2014 8:33pm by Callinon
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#17 Oct 12 2014 at 6:49 PM Rating: Default
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
No matter what SE tries, they're never gonna make people like the OP happy.

To get the Relic, I remember lots of people complaining about Titan HM being the roadblock.

Then, after that, it was the Atma I heard complaints about (I can understand these complaints, though, some people going days /played without theirs)

Then it was the "omg, 1500 myth and lots of dungeons and FATEs!?"

And now it is the OP complaining.

SE can't please anybody these days, lol. Maybe SE should just hand you a free upgraded weapon every major content patch or something. Would you like that, OP?


I think it has more to do with how we need to upgrade all our stuff. They are basically making people run brainless content nonstop to upgrade our weapons. Theres no value or sense of accomplishment here. I feel relieved that i finished an upgrade when i should feel excited.

this
#18 Oct 12 2014 at 6:54 PM Rating: Default
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
No matter what SE tries, they're never gonna make people like the OP happy.

To get the Relic, I remember lots of people complaining about Titan HM being the roadblock.

Then, after that, it was the Atma I heard complaints about (I can understand these complaints, though, some people going days /played without theirs)

Then it was the "omg, 1500 myth and lots of dungeons and FATEs!?"

And now it is the OP complaining.

SE can't please anybody these days, lol. Maybe SE should just hand you a free upgraded weapon every major content patch or something. Would you like that, OP?


This is why people need to step back from MMOs once in awhile. I'm currently taking a break, been about a month and will probably extend for a couple more. If everything is starting to aggravate you, it isn't fun, it's time for a break.



only thing with that is when you do take that couple month break and get that relief... you finally want to log on again but you dont wanna because now your 2 (or 5, or 6 depends on how long its been since you played) months behind every body on content and you dont wanna bother even TRYING to play catch up.

Which is why I wont play FFXI even though I prefer it over XIV.. i havent touched it since 2009..... with all the stuff thats been changed, added, and whatnot you think I really have a chance in **** in catching up on 5 years of content with all 20 of my fully merrited (back then) level 75 jobs? Ummmm no. Id be better off starting over on a new game (i.e this one)
#19 Oct 12 2014 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Lyrailis wrote:
Quote:
I think it has more to do with how we need to upgrade all our stuff. They are basically making people run brainless content nonstop to upgrade our weapons. Theres no value or sense of accomplishment here. I feel relieved that i finished an upgrade when i should feel excited.


Doesn't Coil drop equivalent weapons?

If so.. do you expect to get weapons as good as/nearly as good as Coil weapons handed to you with minimal effort? That doesn't sound right.

I'm no pro raider, but I don't expect to be handed full quality gear that is on par with raid gear, either.


I...didn't even say anything about being given free gear. My point was that upgrading the relic is extremely tedious and not fun. I agree work should be involved to make weapons equivalent to coil if they are going to do that. But it should be fun/interesting with enough challenge to make it feel like an accomplishment.

Unfortunately SE needed a way to get players back into old zones to help new players progress, and this is the result. I find it extremely bad design to have to do this already for a game that is barely a year old. Lowbie zones should still have people in it doing various things, but the progression rate is too fast. Grinding is a necessary evil for the longevity of an MMO. It's up to the developers to give that grind factors that make people enjoy their time spent. For how slow FFXI was, it certainly had people of all levels doing all kinds of content for years. You were never "finished". Never. And that's how an MMO should feel because isn't that the point of an MMO?
#20 Oct 12 2014 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
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You were never "finished". Never. And that's how an MMO should feel because isn't that the point of an MMO?

That's pretty much how you create a casual unfriendly MMO that must be played at the expense of other games and maybe even any attempt at life. How one should be viewing an MMO is as a game that is constantly growing and evolving as a result of patches, but I could argue that line is blurring a bit with the advent of things like DLC these days.

The snag, of course, is how a given game chooses to grow. The current trend seems to focus on raiding even though numbers in a given game are likely to put people who participate in those more than once or twice "just to see it" within the minority. That feeling of never being finished MAY be achieved, but usually it is in a more roundabout way like with caps and other forms of gating. If you're not someone who can "commit" to the expected norm of MMO endgame, you either wade along at a much slower pace or generally have to accept that your Game Over just got knocked back a few levels. Of course, this is also why I'm pretty adamant about alternative progression paths being a thing, as avoiding that feeling is integral to wanting to stick around. The more of any demographic you have around, especially in the sub model, is simply going to be better for the game's bottom line.

So, while the devs may have that precarious balancing act to deal with, I am also someone who believes blind loyalty to a single game is dangerous to gaming on the whole. Sometimes people absolutely need to take a break to better gain some perspective. Playing other games can also help one to see what is done right and wrong. Sure, you'll have those who love to bemoan how the MMO has been mainstreamed, casualized, no longer fun, or whatever silly, negative rhetoric they'll prop out to make themselves look the wiser, more sophisticated gamer, but the truth is, on top of being a genre that grows with time, they need to be inclusive with their content, not exclusive. So, that's further why things like lockouts or lacking dynamic content scaling suck. Playing MMOs with others should always be fun and encouraged, but at the same time, it shouldn't be mandatory. Even soloists are a factor in the world regardless of whether or not their presence is immediately obvious.

Maybe one day there'll be a game ballsy enough to break the current cycle, but for the moment, it's pretty much play how the devs intend or GTFO.
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#21 Oct 13 2014 at 12:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Which is why I wont play FFXI even though I prefer it over XIV.. i havent touched it since 2009...

Except in XI, it doesn't take long at all to 'catch up'. Not only that, but there are a ton more attractions(read: distractions) that if it's your bag then you don't feel rushed anyway. XI is a game I can take my time in or rush to the end to participate in the harder difficulty content. The main difference between the two is that no matter which route I choose, there's more to do around whatever it is specifically that you might be focused on.

In all honesty, XI wasn't much different from most MMOs. You all line up for the RNG carousel. The upside of the carousel in XI is that you could toss rings at bottletops, shoot caps at the range or enjoy a funnel cake between between waiting in line. Even if you were only there for the carousel, there were other things to do that kept you busy and made it feel like an experience.

ARR is still young and it'll probably change in the future, but I get the feeling that people vent because there's nothing to fill the gaps. You get off the carousel and are greeted with the not so warm and fuzzy feeling of realizing that you're on your way back around to wait in line again for more of the same.
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#22 Oct 13 2014 at 7:16 AM Rating: Excellent
The relics in XI at their final upgrade meant something. In the case of my Gjallarhorn, the last stage of the upgrade to 99 made a critical difference in how my BRD played against very high end content. I got the last boost of song accuracy I needed to consistently land debuffs against the level 119+ content. That is HUGE. Bard's Carnal Elegy slows a monster's auto attacks down by 50%, for example. With level 95 Ghorn I could not land it. With Level 99, now I can. (The job points I've been putting into Song Accuracy are probably not hurting either.)

I'm still on atma stage because I'm casual and the drop rates hate me, but at this point I think I'll hold off on upgrading one of my Zenith's to Animus until we have an indication of which of the relic weapons will be the best at their final stage. (In the meantime, I've got a 110 weapon on my BLM and a UAT waiting in the wings for my WAR for soldiery to get uncapped.)
#23 Oct 13 2014 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
No matter what SE tries, they're never gonna make people like the OP happy


Then again on the flip side, there's far too many who will accept ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING SE throws at them.


Exactly there are Trolls on both side.. Those that continually bash the game and those that continually bash those that have any even if little issues with certain parts of the game... Just because there are things in the game someone does not like does not make them a troll... Not everything in a game can be perfect or will be perfect and some things can be improved upon.. If there wasnt good and bad in the game there probably would not be much to discuss..

Personally I like the latest upgrade to the relic because I can go about what I do normally and still get some lights.

Alexandrites was ok till you had to pay the high prices for materia...

But there are parts of the relic I hated like the atma part.. Not so much the fact I had to do it but the randomness of it being so different for everyone..

I also liked the books they were not too bad..

The first part was fine except the Titan fight because it was a fight that with any lag you were screwed so it hurt some people .


Edited, Oct 13th 2014 9:48am by Nashred
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#24 Oct 13 2014 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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[quote=Raylo]I don't know if it's the laziest step of the relic quest line, but it's definitely my least favorite step of them all. It's a 5 ilvl upgrade that takes a ridiculous amount of time/runs to get... 2000 light is a LOT. [quote]

Especially when a 30 minute frontlines run only gives you 6 out of those 2000. I've got 562 and feel like I should be halfway there already.
#25DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Oct 13 2014 at 2:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ok really? So if i played FFXI right now now how long would it take to get all of the non Audolin jobs from 75 to 99 and full merritted, finish the last boss in moogle kupo detat, start and finish shanattottoos ascension, finish wotg (from that first fight with cait sith and the Maw that a whm can cure solo..., then do all the current audolin story stuff plus, get ready for whatever XIs new current endgame is and get all your jobs sufficiently geared to do it all?.
#26 Oct 13 2014 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's a lot of crap you wouldn't even need to touch. Really, the only "required" old world stuff is anything involved with RMEs or upgrading artifact/relic gear. Maybe Empyrean eventually. Honestly, the bigger issue would be finding people to help with things like Delve because it's now old hat and XI still lacks good matchmaking systems.
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