Would this help queue times...Follow

I think there are times when it's a better strategy to use Swiftcast for things outside Raise/Resurrect. Most notably, pairing it up with Medica 2 can be a particularly strong move at times (e.g. in Tam Tara HM, after the Red Wedding AoE you can kick out an SC Medica 2 and make it to safety in time for the follow-up Gargoyle beam attacks).

As for healing as a White Mage against the Stone Vigil final boss, Regen and Benediction are probably your best bets if you have a lot of movement to do. Esuna has a very short cast time, requiring only a brief pause if you have to remove the DoT. But people are responsible for being smart about dodging (move around the edges for the circular AoEs and move to the center for the beam attacks). You can fix mistakes, but you can't perform miracles.

But Scholars also have Lustrate as a healing move they can use while in motion, and which also can't be silenced (and both those facts have proven life-saving at times). Pairing it up with a fairy that can survive most AoE attacks make improved mobility one of the Scholar's strengths over White Mage.

My bad. Thought he was talking about regular mode.

Yeah, that one is a bit tough because there's two of them to keep track of, but as long as neither are facing your direction, you can cast safely. The debuff is rather nasty since it will impair your cures, so use Stoneskin first, since it's not affected and it can usually take the brunt of most of the damage if they get hit again.

In fact, keep Stoneskin up on everyone the whole fight if you can and you'll hardly take any damage beyond what a Regen can cure.

Edited, Sep 28th 2014 12:30am by Xoie

Just like to point out, that if the boss throws down the long ice line centered on you, you don't have half a second. In fact, to ensure you actually get out of the stupid thing it is almost required to use Sprint. Every time I was in the middle of the big horizontal swipe line when it appeared, each time I DIDN'T use Sprint I got hit with it even though I started running as soon as it appeared.

Casting Esuna, even though it is a split second cast, would ensure I get hit with the stupid thing, and he does 2 of those in a row (which is about 10 seconds for the whole thing).

Esuna may be possible during those 3-4 round splash AoEs before the two line strips, sure, but still somewhat tricky to time (esp when everybody hugs a wall so they're not dropping ice pools in the middle of the arena, more often than not they're out of range).



...and it also uses MP which forces you to use Riot Blade (which produces very little hate whatsoever) sometime during the middle of the fight. How many flashes can a PLD do again before he goes dry? I forget. I think it is something like 4. It has been awhile.

Meanwhile, Overpower uses TP, which you could, if you wanted to, use 5, 6, 7+ of them on large AoE packs of mobs. You'll drain yourself of TP that way, but by the time that happens you should have so much hate that nothing is going to get pulled off of you.



TBC Warrior had Thunderclap (which was one of the few 'extra threat' abilities) which is very similar to Flash -- instead of Blind it caused Attack Speed Down and it was radial AoE. The extra threat wasn't all that high, which is why tab-targeting spam was necessary. Thunderclap hit far more than 3 targets, but again, did very little threat. As far as to how much I was spamming Flash, well. Usually twice at the beginning of the fight, trying to fit a 3rd one in sometime after 1-2 combos if I remember right. I DO remember that if you try 3 flashes at the beginning of the fight, the DPS WILL Rip your main target right off you as Flash doesn't generate enough hate to hold mobs alone, so you can't spam it too much. You need the FB+SB+RoH combo to keep the main target on you, and at least one of those needs to be done ASAP.

Oh, and in WoW, the GCD was a heck of a lot faster than XIV's. I feel that tanks in XIV could use a half-second shaved off of their GCD to help them get the 2 flashes out and some more hate-producing combos or something to give them TIME to get this stuff up on a mob before some DPS unloads everything he has into a mob and then complains when it chews his face off.



It isn't just me that has trouble keeping mobs, I see LOTS of Paladins and Gladiators in Roulettes having difficulty with holding mobs. MRD or Warriors? Rarely. As a Healer, I take a lot more hits on average with PLD tanks than I do WAR tanks. Also, I will note that when I used to play my other character that I want to get back to at some point, I didn't lose mobs all that often -- I could keep mobs on me pretty good actually. It just wasn't fun to do so and was far more stressful than it really needs to be.

Most of the challenge of playing a GLA/PLD is in keeping multiple mobs on you. When do you fight multiple mobs most often? Why that would be during Trash. Who cares about the challenge/difficulty of trash? Almost no one. So what would we actually be hurting if we gave GLA/PLD access to another AoE and/or buffed their AoE hate a bit? Nobody.

Who would benefit? Nearly everybody running Roulettes.

It wouldn't make Endgame easier, because you're in 8man groups, and most of the challenge there is fighting bosses (1-2 mobs with the occasional adds), so these proposed changes would not affect that much at all.

Edited, Sep 28th 2014 9:22am by Lyrailis

I'm not so sure that they should cap those dungeons, but I think it would be better if they kept them in their own roulette. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to keep WP in the same class as Copperbell HM. Limiting Expert to only 3 dungeons seems a bit off to me, especially since one FC member is the "Stone Vigil HM charm" since that's where we always go when we run Expert roulettes. Inevitably, the comment "@#$% Stone Vigil" comes up in FC chat when we enter.



I think the urge to speed run is the main issue. People don't really care about doing Hullbreaker Island for the 367th time, they just want their soldiery bonus as fast as they can get it. Despite some of the comments early on about how Hullbreaker, Stone Vigil HM, and Tam Tara HM were more difficult to speed run, I can manage any of them in under 25 minutes, and I'm not one of those ilvl 105+ guys. Part of that is because of the UAT weapons and easier upgrades to armor via hunts increased the DPS by a larger proportion than the tank or healer (or else, everyone would rather upgrade their DPS over their non-DPS jobs).

To make things easier on a tank, I think dungeons would have to be redone to have encounters with less mobs, rather than the larger group that get AoE'd down. Less mobs are easier for the tank to control but that makes a dungeon longer. I would also have to say that it would really, really help tanks if healers were a bit more consistent. A good number of healers, perhaps even the majority, keep the tank's hp up. Some healers prefer to think of themselves as DPS and are not good about that. Sure, I cast my fair share of Holy in a dungeon, but I almost always follow it up with Cure II on the tank instead of another Holy. But I'm sure we have all seen the healer who never leaves Cleric's Stance and rarely casts something other than Holy.

People need to ask why people are doing speed runs in MMO's?
Speed runs happen because some people are bored and want to get that content over. Why are they bored? Well either the content is not good or their tired of doing it. Even the best content can become boring after doing it too many times. Some people just are in a rush to get the newest and greatest... I am sure there other reasons too but I think those are the main.

But to me with FFXIV a big part of it is tired of the content.. WP for example was fun the first few times I did it but not the 20th time or so.. With FFXIV especially then there was no alternative to tomes and you need too cap them for gear. I felt like I am being forced to do content over and over and that is not good. Situation is getting better with stuff like hunts but the game needs more variety of ways to level or get tomes. ST was awsum the first 6 times and so was ct but not after 20 times. The best content in the world gets boring if you have to do it over and over and over.

To me SE is creating a problem for new people because people get so sick of something like WP they never want to go back and do it again... Some thing like CT too I know is a problem for them...... They are creating huge sections of the game that are going to be dead eventually especially instance material...

Edited, Sep 30th 2014 8:45am by Nashred

It's the responsibility of everyone to look at their party makeup and see if they have a newbie (if I see anyone with less than 4000 hp, then I am going slow). I think it's also the responsibility of a newbie to speak up and say something like "it's my first time here" or "first time healing this dungeon, but I've been through it as a dps" or something like that. I did that with pretty much every dungeon I ran and nobody complained. Maybe I was lucky.

When you had your tank who was rushing off on everything, did you ask him to slow down? I've had healers complain that I'm not going fast enough, and I've even had healers complain that I used my damage mitigation cooldowns when they think I should be fine without them.

I still think the problem is that the content isn't enticing enough for players to want to take their time enjoying. I've used the example a thousand times already, but I feel it's still relevant... look at PvP content. You can cram the same 6-10 people into the same 7 year old arena and they will have a unique experience the majority of the time. The same cannot be said for PvE content.

Everybody wants more classes and jobs, but I'd rather see more variance in how similar jobs are played. I played through WoW as a paladin, priest and druid healer and I can honestly say that the game play changes drastically between them all despite them sharing the same role. You have to think and act/react differently when you move from a flat burst healer style, to a healing over time style, to mitigation style healing. Even though rogue and ninja are right around the corner, I'm not sure I can really be excited about them until I see something different. I kinda get the feeling that it'll just be the same mechanics of abilities we already have with flashy new animations and spell effects.

I don't really fault SE here because I know that they're sorta bound to what they can allow players to do as far as battle mechanics. There are a lot of classes and jobs, but very little variance in the way those classes and jobs execute in battle settings. My point is that when you have that variance, you can clear content you've already seen again because it actually feels new. Though your role may be the same, your actions are different and you're forced to approach the content from a different perspective. SE needs to find a way to tap into that, especially given the armory system and how players are expected to grind through several jobs and classes. Outside of making that adjustment, I don't see any other way really but spamming content patches.

Maybe so, but perhaps there's some kind of, I don't know... dissonance going on, where players are for some odd reason, playing a largely PvE-based MMORPG and expecting each run to be something new?

They signed up for a PvE-based MMORPG, knowing it was a PvE-based MMORPG. I don't think hardly anybody who plays XIV thought it was anything other than a PvE-based MMORPG. Nowhere was it ever advertised as anything else.



Granted, I don't have every single job leveled to 50, but it seems to me we already have that. I noticed that Gladiator and Marauder similar, but yet have differences. But I suppose we can say that both have a 3-move main combo (I think? MRD is only ~22). But the DPS, I'd have to respectfully disagree. From leveling THM to 35, I know that THM plays quite a bit different than ACN that I leveled to 16, and from a friend's description, it plays quite a bit different from the actual SMN job. Meanwhile, on the melee side of things, from what I've heard from random conversations, sounds like MNK and DRG are different enough that they qualify for what you're describing. And I've leveled ARC to 15, and it doesn't play like either of the mage classes, and it is obviously not a melee either.

Lastly, we have the two healers. I leveled WHM to 50 and it is all about stacking up the free heals and raw healing power. SCH, however, has a summon (don't they have two of them that behave differently?) to help heal while their own heals seem weaker (but they spam more of them)? That sounds to me like the two classes are different enough.

I'm curious to see how they will separate NIN from DRG and MNK.



But how far does that REALLY go? Again, you're going to end up with "One-and-done", but once per each class. Let's see... in leveling CNJ alone, I have probably done Tam-Tara ~20 times, that's not counting the 5-ish times I've seen it on THM. At least half of these runs had newbies in the run. Are you really saying that we can add enough classes/jobs for someone to do each and every dungeon 30+ times?

Some of these people complain when they have to run the same thing twice, afterall.

No, I think it is more just players being impatient and players wanting to tunnel vision the endgame. I know people will pop up and say "they shouldn't force us to do lowbie junk" but yet, again, newbies need help clearing this stuff. If the serial endgamers want to skip all lowbie content, then the lowbie content would need to be skippable because nothing sucks worse than being stuck on something you can't get done because nobody has incentives to do it again. But we can't do that, because we'd destroy the very thing that this game is even about in the first place, AND we'd get even more people arriving at endgame with no clue as to how to actually function in a group properly.

So.....

TL:DR; People need to stop complaining about re-doing content and/or being so bloody impatient, because that's basically what an MMORPG _is_. They signed up for an MMORPG, they got an MMORPG. I feel that XIV is fair about group-based content, an hour or so per day is not too unreasonable for a random queue dungeon.

MMORPGs were not designed to be "cleared" in a few weeks. Stop and smell the roses once in awhile, etc etc etc.

Yeah, SCH and WHM play very differently. WHM is all about putting out fires, SCH is all about anticipating what's coming and prepping the tank/party for it.

We had a two SCH party last night in ST, and both me and the other guy were impressed with each other. Getting the maximum output from SCH is an art form, and both of us were totally on top of our game. We had no deaths in our party. (Hey Ultros folks, apparently he's on your server!)

There are a number of reasons why this is so, but mostly, it's the nature of the MMO beast.

It takes years to make a game with quality content you don't get bored with in the few dozen hours (at best) that you play it. MMO developers have to keep churning out new things several times a year, and it has to be appealing to a wide range of players and player circles (hardcore, casual, crafters, gatherers, PVPers, FCs, etc.). Because of this, content is going to be designed to be repeated simply because it's not possible to make enough new content fast enough. But unless you're new to MMOs, this doesn't come as a surprise.

But that aside, people speedrun because they're grinding, and MMOs are going to have its grinding because some people want to play it for as many hours of their lives as they can. In FFXIV, it's not absolutely necessary to grind. You could do a Daily Expert Roulette every day and cap your soldiery before the week is out. It's a bit repetitive, but not to the level of a grind where you're constantly spamming the same routine back-to-back. But some people choose to grind, the game offers a reason to grind, and the best way to grind is to do it as efficiently as possible. Speed running is how it's done.

Mind you, speed running is also a lot more challenging, so in a way, it's actually raising the difficulty among people who know the drill. If anything it makes an otherwise boring grind more interesting, not to mention less time consuming.

Yes, ARR has some of the same mechanics. It does not have classes based almost entirely on these roles, which is what separates the two. Discipline Priest in WoW is a shield based mitigation healer. Resto Druid is based around healing over time. Holy Priests and Paladins are centered mostly around front-loaded healing.

You can't say the same thing about ARR. There is no class based solely on regen healing. There is no class based solely on front loaded healing. There is no class based solely on mitigation style healing. All of the spells and abilities are there in XIV, but because there is no specialization; they don't explore how players can interact with these spells to make encounters more dynamic class by class.



People who aren't casual players are the people most likely to grow bored quickly and/or complain and/or quit. They're mad that they have to wait for something they don't really enjoy doing in the first place. To complicate that further, there aren't a ton of other options to keep them busy in the meanwhile. ARR is developed toward casual players so it's not hard to see why players who want to fill 2-3+ hours a day quickly lose interest.

I don't really agree with the 'this is MMO' comment. Different titles cater to different crowds. Instead of "this is MMO, suck it up" it should be "this is how this particular MMO is, try another one". ARR certainly isn't the MMO spectrum for content, difficulty, ect.

And I contend that, as someone who plays both WHM and SCH in endgame activities today, that they have two completely different playstyles.

SCH using Selene lacks any kind of regen. WHM relies heavily on Regen/Medica II to keep the party alive during crunch time. In contrast, a SCH is tossing up Galvanize (and borrowed Stoneskin) along with Sacred Soil to try to keep damage actually hitting people down to a minimum.

The "front load" and "regen" styles of healing are combined in WHM, but SCH is really its own thing.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2014 9:57am by Catwho

I'm not taunting anyone. I'm merely pointing out that there are systems that promote more variation in play than I've found in ARR. Is it perfect? No. Is it my preference? Yes. I'm here discussing it because I think XIV could benefit, not to bash the game.


As far as WHM and SCH having different playstyles, I agree but not to the magnitude that it's found elsewhere. As the jobs and classes expand and add more spells and abilities it's possible that they can add to that, but I feel it isn't currently as dynamic as what is found elsewhere.

It's similar to the discussion a little while back about Diablo III. You have enough play within even a single class that there are multiple viable ways to play those classes and they're all viable. It's more than just equipping a piece of gear that adds x amount to your stats. It's equipping gear, taking a talent or using a glyph that has the potential to completely change the play style of the same class.

I'm not talking simply about the difference between cure and regen. I'm talking about the ability to customize those spells to support each encounter or your personal play style. A talent that grants a spell aura to players within a certain range of the spell target instead of a single target. An ability that allows a spell that is normally single use to stack. A gear trait that gives an ability additional properties such as consuming stacks for a buff, removing the AoE component of a spell for another effect when combined with certain abilities, ect.

More freedom to make the class yours with added benefits of keeping clutter out of your spellbook and off of your UI. I don't really see how some of you think this is a knock. Just because I have a suggestion about how something can be improved doesn't mean I thought it was garbage without the adjustment. People are a bit oversensitive.