Will the expansion be geared towards end-game players? :: World of Warcraft

Quote Reply

#77 Sep 07 2014 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent

Theonehio

Scholar

12,820 posts

FilthMcNasty wrote:

Hyanmen wrote:

Quote:

It wouldn't really make sense if they suddenly allowed classes to wield whatever they wanted to, especially if they intend to add a class that represents the great sword further down the road.

It's not about making all classes wield whatever they want to, stop making up stuff. It's about the possibility of adding a (one) new weapon type to the existing classes, paired with a second job that wields said weapon type. This is not hard to do at all within the current armory system. Your vision of the armory system does not dictate what SE can or cannot do with it.

I didn't create the armoury system. The quote I linked you is from the official website. I can also link articles, excerpts from interviews, ect. to support the ideas I've presented here if you need. I think if you actually dig into it and find out the concept behind the armoury system it'll make more sense to you. The simple translation: weapon type = class/job type.

Some people like it, some people don't. I get that you fall into the latter category, but you shouldn't dismiss what they themselves have said about their own game. You make it seem like we're here making **** up to shoot down your idea, but we're just being realistic about what they've already said about it. No need to be salty.

No one is saying that it's impossible to do, just that it's unlikely given what the armoury system has represented to this game pretty much since it's inception.

He has a hard time acceting his perfect FFXIV is far from perfect and what people have been saying since 1.16 is coming more and more to light - They designed themselves into a corner with this system. Yoshida agrees, which is why they're working on a class/job system overhaul of some kind. You can't add a new type of weapon unless it's a sub category at present design. For example, you can add a Rapier type of sword if you want, still would be sword..still would be gladiator/paladin only, but ARR has no depth, so different types would mean nil.

For example Rapiers are generally parry swords, so you could have em have more parry than other swords..or you can have em do piercing damage rather than slashing damage, akin to FFXI. (More and more you realize that XI did more right than XIV when it came to depth.) Seriously though, he does his best to state that XI is the worst MMO to exist and nothing good was done in it, but immediately dismisses faults about ARR that even Yoshida agrees on and has to do core changes in order to introduce new classes (weapons.)

If this XI, sure...you'll see Great Swords added that they can use without needing to change class, but there's a reason they removed Dagger from Gladiator after all.

____________________________

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#78 Sep 07 2014 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1696205842157

Scholar

1,004 posts

Quote:

Here is my opinion of vanilla FFXI to FFXIV so far:
1.Both games have good story. The pacing is a lot different. XI has a very slow spread out story pace with spectacle after long spurts. XIV has a very fast story pace with spectacle along the whole way.

2.FFXI was about the journey. No cross server play, experience point parties being the only efficient way to level,longer length of time to level, little in game party, guild, or dungeon grouping systems. The social aspect could be argued. But if you didn't hold yourself to a standard of discipline and make a few friends. You have a long road ahead of you progressing.
FFXIV is about the end game. First off Yoshi said it was and has designed it like that so far. Secondly it has all the modern mmo conventions that ease progressing. You don't need anyone to level, it encourages and has more various avenues to group and level that XI did however.

3.FFXI had more party synergy and depth in it's slower battle system. The two hour abilities often required different players performing theirs in a type of harmony to compliment each other. There was a weaponskill renkei system(one person's weaponskill could chain with one or two more players to do more damage and then be bursted by magic users for even more damage or efficiency). FFXIV has more balance and fluidity in it's faster battle system. The game doesn't suffer the class imbalances XI did. There are less skills and are more easier to manage with the cross hotbar. Then there is the limit break system which reinforces that notion of balance over inbalance.

4.XIV has a more broader, more tangible, and visible scope of crafting and gathering. There is more systems designed around these classes than just grab items and craft. XI has more randomness and mystery to it. There is even a chart with supposed ways to face while crafting to align with the crystals.

5.FFXIV has a much better UI and system interfaces for the most part. It is just downright sexy. It's weird because even though the hotbars are set up very efficiently. I find my self staring at my UI more than the action on screen versus XI.
Maybe it's just me trying to see when cool downs are refreshed.I rarely if ever had to shift attention away from the on screen action in XI.

6.FFXI has more amounts of content for battle classes but overall they don't play very differently from one another.
XIV has more variety of overall content. But I wish the variety they have had a tad more complexity and unique mechanics to differentiate each from each other. For example: Most disciples of the hand have different skills names but the mechanics are the same. So far up to level 15. While disciples of the land have more distinction between how the mechanics from fishing and botany vary drastically.

1) I actually have to disagree with you here. The main story is actually just as slow as it was in FFXI. Why FFXIV feels faster is because they add in so much filler during the story quests which FFXi didn't do. FFXIV basically goes like this:
start here -> story -> regions story -> story -> regions story -> story -> regions story etc.
I didn't particularly enjoy the way they did this. It makes the story feel extremely disjointed to me. I preferred FFXI's way of telling the main story without all of that filler. I would have liked it better if the filler were a separate line of quests not attached to the main scenario.

2) I agree with you on this, but again, I liked ffxi's way of leveling up even if it was slower, and even though there were nights you waited hours for parties. I made some great friends along the way. People would even go out of their way and search for me for merit parties. FFXI felt great on the social aspect. FFXIV feels like a glorified match making system. It doesn't matter who I meet in the duty finder because chances are I can't play with them again. You can still make parties on your server to go get EXP but because the leveling is so freaking fast, no one is low level anymore (obviously an exaggeration but you get the point)

3) FFXI kinda failed at one point and never recovered from the skill chain/MB system. When I started playing it was widely used but then got replaced by zerg parties. The only time I can remember doing a SC/MB combo was during jailer of love. FFXI was never able to get us to do that again since zerg parties were way more efficient. People came up with a lot of cool ways to maybe make them more desirable but SE never did anything about it.

4) I never bothered to craft in FFXI and leveling up a craft was extremely tedious. I got bonecraft to 3 and never touched it again. But ffxi did do something FFXIV is struggling to do, and that is to make crafting relevant. Crafters who were determined to craft in ffxi reaped the rewards. in ffxiv you can make money yes, but crafting is extremely irrelevant. If SE removed crafting from the game entirely, there wouldn't be any noticeable difference in how we play the game. I enjoy the way ffxiv handles crafting since it is clearly much more fun than randomly getting a 0.1 skill increase, and does take some thought to to do well (but once you figure out the magic formula of skills and CP usage you can make anything with little effort). I don't agree with Yoshi's design philosophy for ffxiv crafting and think the game is worse off because of it but I'm sure many will disagree. I personally just don't find enjoyment or purpose in a system where everyone can easily have all crafts to 50, and nothing worthwhile can be crafted.

5) This is only because FFXI was created when MMO's were uncharted territory. To fix the entire UI of FFXI would mean starting over from scratch (the UI) which they themselves stated would be required to fix it. In my opinion though FFXI's UI wasn't terrible and I have certainly seen worse UI, and still see some craptacular stuff even today.

6) I really can't see how you came to this conclusion. Just by virtue of time will mean that FFXI has more varying content than ffxiv. You would have to break this down to justify your statement because I can make a much longer list of things to do in FFXI than FFXIV. When ffxiv turns 10 then we can discuss and compare a 10 year old ffxi

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#79 Sep 07 2014 at 8:14 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1705882600228

Scholar

972 posts

Keysofgaruda wrote:

Quote:

Here is my opinion of vanilla FFXI to FFXIV so far:
1.Both games have good story. The pacing is a lot different. XI has a very slow spread out story pace with spectacle after long spurts. XIV has a very fast story pace with spectacle along the whole way.

2.FFXI was about the journey. No cross server play, experience point parties being the only efficient way to level,longer length of time to level, little in game party, guild, or dungeon grouping systems. The social aspect could be argued. But if you didn't hold yourself to a standard of discipline and make a few friends. You have a long road ahead of you progressing.
FFXIV is about the end game. First off Yoshi said it was and has designed it like that so far. Secondly it has all the modern mmo conventions that ease progressing. You don't need anyone to level, it encourages and has more various avenues to group and level that XI did however.

3.FFXI had more party synergy and depth in it's slower battle system. The two hour abilities often required different players performing theirs in a type of harmony to compliment each other. There was a weaponskill renkei system(one person's weaponskill could chain with one or two more players to do more damage and then be bursted by magic users for even more damage or efficiency). FFXIV has more balance and fluidity in it's faster battle system. The game doesn't suffer the class imbalances XI did. There are less skills and are more easier to manage with the cross hotbar. Then there is the limit break system which reinforces that notion of balance over inbalance.

4.XIV has a more broader, more tangible, and visible scope of crafting and gathering. There is more systems designed around these classes than just grab items and craft. XI has more randomness and mystery to it. There is even a chart with supposed ways to face while crafting to align with the crystals.

5.FFXIV has a much better UI and system interfaces for the most part. It is just downright sexy. It's weird because even though the hotbars are set up very efficiently. I find my self staring at my UI more than the action on screen versus XI.
Maybe it's just me trying to see when cool downs are refreshed.I rarely if ever had to shift attention away from the on screen action in XI.

6.FFXI has more amounts of content for battle classes but overall they don't play very differently from one another.
XIV has more variety of overall content. But I wish the variety they have had a tad more complexity and unique mechanics to differentiate each from each other. For example: Most disciples of the hand have different skills names but the mechanics are the same. So far up to level 15. While disciples of the land have more distinction between how the mechanics from fishing and botany vary drastically.

1) I actually have to disagree with you here. The main story is actually just as slow as it was in FFXI. Why FFXIV feels faster is because they add in so much filler during the story quests which FFXi didn't do. FFXIV basically goes like this:
start here -> story -> regions story -> story -> regions story -> story -> regions story etc.
I didn't particularly enjoy the way they did this. It makes the story feel extremely disjointed to me. I preferred FFXI's way of telling the main story without all of that filler. I would have liked it better if the filler were a separate line of quests not attached to the main scenario.

2) I agree with you on this, but again, I liked ffxi's way of leveling up even if it was slower, and even though there were nights you waited hours for parties. I made some great friends along the way. People would even go out of their way and search for me for merit parties. FFXI felt great on the social aspect. FFXIV feels like a glorified match making system. It doesn't matter who I meet in the duty finder because chances are I can't play with them again. You can still make parties on your server to go get EXP but because the leveling is so freaking fast, no one is low level anymore (obviously an exaggeration but you get the point)

3) FFXI kinda failed at one point and never recovered from the skill chain/MB system. When I started playing it was widely used but then got replaced by zerg parties. The only time I can remember doing a SC/MB combo was during jailer of love. FFXI was never able to get us to do that again since zerg parties were way more efficient. People came up with a lot of cool ways to maybe make them more desirable but SE never did anything about it.

4) I never bothered to craft in FFXI and leveling up a craft was extremely tedious. I got bonecraft to 3 and never touched it again. But ffxi did do something FFXIV is struggling to do, and that is to make crafting relevant. Crafters who were determined to craft in ffxi reaped the rewards. in ffxiv you can make money yes, but crafting is extremely irrelevant. If SE removed crafting from the game entirely, there wouldn't be any noticeable difference in how we play the game. I enjoy the way ffxiv handles crafting since it is clearly much more fun than randomly getting a 0.1 skill increase, and does take some thought to to do well (but once you figure out the magic formula of skills and CP usage you can make anything with little effort). I don't agree with Yoshi's design philosophy for ffxiv crafting and think the game is worse off because of it but I'm sure many will disagree. I personally just don't find enjoyment or purpose in a system where everyone can easily have all crafts to 50, and nothing worthwhile can be crafted.

5) This is only because FFXI was created when MMO's were uncharted territory. To fix the entire UI of FFXI would mean starting over from scratch (the UI) which they themselves stated would be required to fix it. In my opinion though FFXI's UI wasn't terrible and I have certainly seen worse UI, and still see some craptacular stuff even today.

6) I really can't see how you came to this conclusion. Just by virtue of time will mean that FFXI has more varying content than ffxiv. You would have to break this down to justify your statement because I can make a much longer list of things to do in FFXI than FFXIV. When ffxiv turns 10 then we can discuss and compare a 10 year old ffxi

1.The stories are about the same pace except the pace automatically slows in FFXI due to the length of time it takes to level. ARR has the same pacing as an offline game for the most part. Get one to five levels and progress the story further. The original XIV had over the top spectacle from the opening cutscene similar to FFVII and XIII. ARR slowed down spectacle somewhat and went a more political toned down type similar to XII. XI went an even slower route but had some very good story regardless.

2.You can still level in parties in XIV. Hunting logs, fates, and after 15 dungeons. Dungeons is like the new camps only with less selection on camps and more difficult fights(speaking of bosses). But because it doesn't push the open world aspect, the choices feel minimal. I still like ARR too but I feel they went a bit overboard on the speed of progression. If skillchains were implemented now I feel it wouldn't be worth it seeing as how most all but endgame stuff dies so quick.

3.The skillchain system never gained maximum momentum due to bard songs, haste, refresh, two hours, all which got more overpowered as the game aged. I still SCed all the time low man in Abyssea and endgame personally. ARR has the potential to right this being the game is young and hasn't introduced many of the overpowered stuff as of yet as far as I know. BUt I still want a system of synergy of some sort.

4.I haven't capped a craft yet so I was just speaking on more of the systems available.

5.XI should update all the graphics some and lock out abyssea or any fast ways to get 75 really fast. At least then the game pre 75 would be closer to what it was before.

6.I am speaking of both vanilla games. If you look at both games ARR and XI you see this. I like both games. I like the combat, broken but cool differentiation between jobs, slower combat, open world aspects of XI. But enjoy the graphics, UI, more variation of content of ARR.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#80 Sep 07 2014 at 11:09 PM Rating: Excellent

FilthMcNasty

Scholar

4,175 posts

sandpark wrote:

5.XI should update all the graphics some and lock out abyssea or any fast ways to get 75 really fast. At least then the game pre 75 would be closer to what it was before.

They're limited in what graphical enhancements they can make because the game is still being played on old playstation/Xbox consoles and on low tier PCs. I don't think they want to alienate the players they have currently playing on those platforms.

I will say that it doesn't take nearly as long to level outside of abyssea as it used to. You can't rocket from 30-75 in a matter of hours, but it's still easily under 2 weeks if you play a few hours a day(assuming you are taking advantage of FoV/GoV experience bonus and using your bonus rings). If you happen to be leveling during a double experience campaign then you can level a job to cap in about 2 weeks.

____________________________

Rinsui wrote:

Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:

30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:

Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#81 Sep 08 2014 at 7:23 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1680481127345

View User Forum

Sage

21,262 posts

I don't get why everyone hates Abyssea so much. I LOVED the storyline they put in there.

Abyssea was actually parallel to Vana'diel right up until the end fight of Chains of Promathia. Abyssea Prishe tells you all about this. Guess what, you and your party lost and died. Promathia unleashed the Nothing on the rest of the planet. Apocalypse now. Promathia consumed Sel'teus/Phoenix, and became a giant dragon called Shinryu. Defeating Shinryu with your new super-enhanced-Abyssea powers corrected the course of the world and while Abyssea will never be like Vana'diel again, the death of Shinryu will eventually slow and stop the monsters from invading.

Yeah, Abyssea let you level a job from 30-99 in a long nonstop marathon session, but not unless you already had at least one job at 99+ beforehand (due to needing limit breaks.) The primary abusers of Abyssea leveling were people like me who used the opportunity to get all 20 jobs to 99. The Empyrean weapon system let people get a nice weapon that still required a buttload of work, but not 150 million gil to match the work like a relic or mythic did. The Empyrean gear obsoleted all the top gear from 75 cap, which is where most of the **** hurt seems to come from. Guess what, Skirmish gear destroyed it when they released Adoulin. And then they allowed you to upgrade your ratty old AF gear to 99 via hard mode fights, so in modern XI you've got RDMs running around looking like RDMs again and it's glorious.

Edit: Your rear end is censored? Really, ZAM?

Edited, Sep 8th 2014 9:24am by Catwho

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#82 Sep 08 2014 at 8:08 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1705882600228

Scholar

972 posts

FilthMcNasty wrote:

sandpark wrote:

5.XI should update all the graphics some and lock out abyssea or any fast ways to get 75 really fast. At least then the game pre 75 would be closer to what it was before.

They're limited in what graphical enhancements they can make because the game is still being played on old playstation/Xbox consoles and on low tier PCs. I don't think they want to alienate the players they have currently playing on those platforms.

I will say that it doesn't take nearly as long to level outside of abyssea as it used to. You can't rocket from 30-75 in a matter of hours, but it's still easily under 2 weeks if you play a few hours a day(assuming you are taking advantage of FoV/GoV experience bonus and using your bonus rings). If you happen to be leveling during a double experience campaign then you can level a job to cap in about 2 weeks.

2 Weeks is fine assuming you still have to perform in a party with combat to level. I would like to see how many players actually still play on ps2. If the number isn't all that high they could make a free upgrade to a ps3 version. And offer a slightly beefier version?

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#83 Sep 08 2014 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1705882600228

Scholar

972 posts

Catwho wrote:

I don't get why everyone hates Abyssea so much. I LOVED the storyline they put in there.
Yeah, Abyssea let you level a job from 30-99 in a long nonstop marathon session, but not unless you already had at least one job at 99+ beforehand (due to needing limit breaks.) The primary abusers of Abyssea leveling were people like me who used the opportunity to get all 20 jobs to 99. The Empyrean weapon system let people get a nice weapon that still required a buttload of work, but not 150 million gil to match the work like a relic or mythic did. The Empyrean gear obsoleted all the top gear from 75 cap, which is where most of the **** hurt seems to come from. Guess what, Skirmish gear destroyed it when they released Adoulin. And then they allowed you to upgrade your ratty old AF gear to 99 via hard mode fights, so in modern XI you've got RDMs running around looking like RDMs again and it's glorious.

Edit: Your rear end is censored? Really, ZAM?

Edited, Sep 8th 2014 9:24am by Catwho

I actually loved abyssea when content was done at the levels that most was designed for. The only problem I had was it overpowered the xp earned by traditional parties outside abyssea resulting in there being less parties seeking to level the old fashion way. It's like if in ARR the best xp/way to level was dungeons for years. And I loved these dungeons then all the sudden released a new way to level solo and there was less people doing dungeons from the larger pool. I liked that endgame wise it provided a bunch of support for solo and low man stuff.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#84 Sep 08 2014 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent

Nashred

Scholar

1,732 posts

FilthMcNasty wrote:

sandpark wrote:

5.XI should update all the graphics some and lock out abyssea or any fast ways to get 75 really fast. At least then the game pre 75 would be closer to what it was before.

They're limited in what graphical enhancements they can make because the game is still being played on old playstation/Xbox consoles and on low tier PCs. I don't think they want to alienate the players they have currently playing on those platforms.

I will say that it doesn't take nearly as long to level outside of abyssea as it used to. You can't rocket from 30-75 in a matter of hours, but it's still easily under 2 weeks if you play a few hours a day(assuming you are taking advantage of FoV/GoV experience bonus and using your bonus rings). If you happen to be leveling during a double experience campaign then you can level a job to cap in about 2 weeks.

Yea GOV parties can level as fast as Abyssea parties.

If FFXI re-did the graphics and made a new interface, Re-did crafting I would go back, I may still go back eventually.

The thing is FFXIV has way more potential than FFXI does anymore. The FFXIV has so many things going for it, the real problem is the things that are wrong are so bad it almost overshadows what is done right. The second problem I think is SE seems content on making the same mistakes instead of fixing them or learning from them in FFXIV..

____________________________

FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#85 Sep 08 2014 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1691972196123

Sage

5,745 posts

sandpark wrote:

I actually loved abyssea when content was done at the levels that most was designed for. The only problem I had was it overpowered the xp earned by traditional parties outside abyssea resulting in there being less parties seeking to level the old fashion way.

The root reason there were fewer parties seeking to level the old fashioned way was because the old fashioned got boring in a hurry.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#86 Sep 09 2014 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent

Theonehio

Scholar

12,820 posts

Catwho wrote:

I don't get why everyone hates Abyssea so much. I LOVED the storyline they put in there.

Abyssea was actually parallel to Vana'diel right up until the end fight of Chains of Promathia. Abyssea Prishe tells you all about this. Guess what, you and your party lost and died. Promathia unleashed the Nothing on the rest of the planet. Apocalypse now. Promathia consumed Sel'teus/Phoenix, and became a giant dragon called Shinryu. Defeating Shinryu with your new super-enhanced-Abyssea powers corrected the course of the world and while Abyssea will never be like Vana'diel again, the death of Shinryu will eventually slow and stop the monsters from invading.

Yeah, Abyssea let you level a job from 30-99 in a long nonstop marathon session, but not unless you already had at least one job at 99+ beforehand (due to needing limit breaks.) The primary abusers of Abyssea leveling were people like me who used the opportunity to get all 20 jobs to 99. The Empyrean weapon system let people get a nice weapon that still required a buttload of work, but not 150 million gil to match the work like a relic or mythic did. The Empyrean gear obsoleted all the top gear from 75 cap, which is where most of the **** hurt seems to come from. Guess what, Skirmish gear destroyed it when they released Adoulin. And then they allowed you to upgrade your ratty old AF gear to 99 via hard mode fights, so in modern XI you've got RDMs running around looking like RDMs again and it's glorious.

Edit: Your rear end is censored? Really, ZAM?

Edited, Sep 8th 2014 9:24am by Catwho

Abyssea neutered pretty much everything in FFXI. It wasn't bad in itself as content, the changes that came with it was too drastic too soon.

____________________________

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#87 Sep 09 2014 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1685924211558

Sage

425 posts

svlyons wrote:

sandpark wrote:

I actually loved abyssea when content was done at the levels that most was designed for. The only problem I had was it overpowered the xp earned by traditional parties outside abyssea resulting in there being less parties seeking to level the old fashion way.

The root reason there were fewer parties seeking to level the old fashioned way was because the old fashioned got boring in a hurry.

Yeah for some folks. Was never boring for me, but those hours spent in some parties could get really long winded. I think the longest time I merited was 12 hours. People from the original party were slowly disappearing to the point where I was eventually the last one left XD.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#88 Sep 09 2014 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent

Lyrailis

Sage

3,441 posts

Quote:

And then they allowed you to upgrade your ratty old AF gear to 99 via ~~hard mode fights~~ sparks of eminence

FTFY lol.

Using Sparks might take awhile, but it is fully do-able.

Quote:

Edit: Your rear end is censored? Really, ZAM?

Google's fault.

Apparently Google Adsense is run by 90 year old grannies; the censorship on ZAM is worse than the censorship in 1960's cartoons.

Quote:

Yeah for some folks. Was never boring for me, but those hours spent in some parties could get really long winded. I think the longest time I merited was 12 hours. People from the original party were slowly disappearing to the point where I was eventually the last one left XD.

Killing the same 3-5 mobs is boring. I can do it with just me and family member + trusts for a couple hours, but when you add more actual people there... you got AFKs every 5-10min, or someone starts getting whiny and complainy because _____ isn't the way they like it (not enough DPS, tank takes too much damage, we're not getting Chain #5, not enough XP/hr or whatever) and/or we get a full group, 30min later someone has to go to work. Then we get a replacement, and someone else wants to go have sex. Then 30min later, a replacement is found, and two pulls later, someone gets an emergency call and has to leave.

Meanwhile, XP/hr is abysmal and everybody is having a horrible time, because you can't go any more than 1-2 chains before someone has to leave.

That's why I was so drawn to WoW style gaming; groups exist, but only for 30-60min chunks and the game automatically matches you up with a group for most of the game's grouped content. XIV is much the same way until you get to Endgame. I don't mind grouping with other people, and hey, grouped combat is fun... but I don't like the hassle of manually building groups and/or trying to keep a group together for a long period of time.

I've been VERY pleasantly surprised; I have never seen a group actually fail a dungeon Pre-50. Wipe, yes. Fail and break up? No. I've seen ONE instance of us kicking an AFK player to replace them out of all the dungeons I've done. It isn't even this good in WoW (about 75% chance of succeeding the dungeon without the group breaking up and/or people getting kicked/replaced in MoP).

Edited, Sep 9th 2014 9:35pm by Lyrailis

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#89 Sep 09 2014 at 10:53 PM Rating: Good

FilthMcNasty

Scholar

4,175 posts

Lyrailis wrote:

Killing the same 3-5 mobs is boring. I can do it with just me and family member + trusts for a couple hours, but when you add more actual people there... you got AFKs every 5-10min, or someone starts getting whiny and complainy because _____ isn't the way they like it (not enough DPS, tank takes too much damage, we're not getting Chain #5, not enough XP/hr or whatever) and/or we get a full group, 30min later someone has to go to work. Then we get a replacement, and someone else wants to go have sex. Then 30min later, a replacement is found, and two pulls later, someone gets an emergency call and has to leave.

Very few of my groups in XI were like you describe, but it might be because I made the groups myself. I usually talked to people more than just telling them the coords on the map to meet up. You'd be surprised how far being personable goes.

I actually found it challenging to group because I didn't always make cookie-cutter. Matter of fact, I frequently went to spots no one ever went to because what did bore me was stale scenery. Everyone had their preconceived notions of where they were supposed to go to level, but I was always off in some corner of the world where I knew nobody would be competing for mobs.

I used to make some pretty odd group comps. People would always give me the O.o when they saw that there were 2 or 3 THF in the group or 2 NIN no healer, but I was always trying ideas that people weren't brave enough to try in a mainstream group. Sure the status quo was to go from crabs to more crabs to crawlers and back to crabs before going on to crawlers and more crabs. It was still monotonous at times, but at least you had the option of being adventurous and breaking out of the mold if you wanted to.

Some of the best friends I made in XI were people who doubted that a group that I invited them to would work because it didn't consist of a NIN 3 generic DD(one being ranged to pull), a healer and their refresh bot. I convinced quite a few people that you could get just as much exp in a VT group without a healer or that 2 THF making SA/SC every other mob was viable for making quick work of IT mobs.

As much as I give WoW props for streamlining the grouping process, I'll never find the same enjoyment that I had theory-crafting nutty groups because of it.

____________________________

Rinsui wrote:

Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:

30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:

Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#90 Sep 10 2014 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1705882600228

Scholar

972 posts

FilthMcNasty wrote:

Lyrailis wrote:

Killing the same 3-5 mobs is boring. I can do it with just me and family member + trusts for a couple hours, but when you add more actual people there... you got AFKs every 5-10min, or someone starts getting whiny and complainy because _____ isn't the way they like it (not enough DPS, tank takes too much damage, we're not getting Chain #5, not enough XP/hr or whatever) and/or we get a full group, 30min later someone has to go to work. Then we get a replacement, and someone else wants to go have sex. Then 30min later, a replacement is found, and two pulls later, someone gets an emergency call and has to leave.

Very few of my groups in XI were like you describe, but it might be because I made the groups myself. I usually talked to people more than just telling them the coords on the map to meet up. You'd be surprised how far being personable goes.

I actually found it challenging to group because I didn't always make cookie-cutter. Matter of fact, I frequently went to spots no one ever went to because what did bore me was stale scenery. Everyone had their preconceived notions of where they were supposed to go to level, but I was always off in some corner of the world where I knew nobody would be competing for mobs.

I used to make some pretty odd group comps. People would always give me the O.o when they saw that there were 2 or 3 THF in the group or 2 NIN no healer, but I was always trying ideas that people weren't brave enough to try in a mainstream group. Sure the status quo was to go from crabs to more crabs to crawlers and back to crabs before going on to crawlers and more crabs. It was still monotonous at times, but at least you had the option of being adventurous and breaking out of the mold if you wanted to.

Some of the best friends I made in XI were people who doubted that a group that I invited them to would work because it didn't consist of a NIN 3 generic DD(one being ranged to pull), a healer and their refresh bot. I convinced quite a few people that you could get just as much exp in a VT group without a healer or that 2 THF making SA/SC every other mob was viable for making quick work of IT mobs.

As much as I give WoW props for streamlining the grouping process, I'll never find the same enjoyment that I had theory-crafting nutty groups because of it.

The actual process of grouping to kill open world monsters is not boring, unless you think dungeons should be nothing but boss monsters and consider the trash boring there as well. ARR has systems in place that could really make grouping for experience a lot easier.

1.The ability to change classes on the fly. Someone leaves? If an option existed to earn xp for a class on a different class, this is fixed. Tank leaves? Someone change to tank if they have it.
2.Guildleves. These leves have time restraints.They can also have boss monsters in them during sections.Members will leave parties regardless when needed or time in progress is overstayed. Sign up for a 30 minute leve if that is all you want, 1hr, 2hrs,etc.
3.Hunting logs. These require you to kill certain monsters all over the world. If implemented properly in an xp party system. These could have you going all over the world during one xp party if wanted.
4.Duty finder. Have a xp party group finder. Have it work just like the dungeon one except for open world xp party. The pain of finding members is lessened.
5.Fates have bosses and world bosses.

Now right now you might be saying ok. Those are four different systems? Taking pieces from each of these would make open world partying much more manageable.

Then the only thing lacking would be some type of skillchain system to encourage people to synergize versus only maximizing their own damage. Possibly a xp chain bonus for connecting spells and weaponskills? They have a previous mmo, chrono trigger, and various other games to draw from to create a version best for ARR.

Edited, Sep 10th 2014 9:03am by sandpark

Edited, Sep 10th 2014 9:03am by sandpark

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#91 Sep 10 2014 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1680481127345

View User Forum

Sage

21,262 posts

Quote:

you got AFKs every 5-10min, or someone starts getting whiny and complainy because _____ isn't the way they like it (not enough DPS, tank takes too much damage, we're not getting Chain #5, not enough XP/hr or whatever) and/or we get a full group, 30min later someone has to go to work. Then we get a replacement, and someone else wants to go have sex. Then 30min later, a replacement is found, and two pulls later, someone gets an emergency call and has to leave.

What you just described was the reason Abyssea worm parties were so popular. SE knew they needed a way to allow large numbers of people to level without the camp restrictions or party size restrictions of the preferred merit camps. The solution was the Abyssea chain system.

- 18 people of any party composition, although some tanks and healers in the mix were needed, as well as a BLM or two
- Invisible chains that were not time dependent, but simply required that you kill the exact same mob
- Light based bonuses (blue lights for blue chests that granted exp boosts and temp items, red lights for red chests that gave other lights, amber lights for gold chests that granted items and key items, silver lights from red chests that boosted the cruor per kill, and gold lights from red chest that boosted exp per kill.)
- Due to the flexible sizing of the alliance, if people needed to drop out any time, they could.
-Due to the flexible composition of the alliance, pretty much any kind of party member could be picked up to replace them. (Again, as long as you had a few healers and magic DPS.)
- Anyone level 60+ was usually able to contribute some damage or healing, eliminating the need for level segregated parties

Exp could hit 300,000/hour in some amazing high end parties with level 99ers meriting.

The downside, of course, was that with the slack in the party and the need to have someone opening chests constantly in Abyssea to keep the lights going, you could allow someone as low as level 30 in your level 99 alliance. These "keyers" would eventually hit 99 with the skills of a level 30. It was a great way to level up your extra jobs you never intended to play, but for some purists who leveled jobs the old fashioned way, these insta-99s really rankled them.

Combine the hiney hurt over the leveling parties with the hiney hurt of Abyssea gear being pretty much best in slot for almost every job, and you had mass abandonment of FFXI for people who were only hanging around the game because they had good gear and big egos.

Their loss - they missed Empyrean weapon farming, seal parties and gem parties, and some of the more insane wacky adventures I've had in XI trying to do 18-man content with 6 people.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#92 Sep 10 2014 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1705882600228

Scholar

972 posts

Catwho wrote:

Quote:

you got AFKs every 5-10min, or someone starts getting whiny and complainy because _____ isn't the way they like it (not enough DPS, tank takes too much damage, we're not getting Chain #5, not enough XP/hr or whatever) and/or we get a full group, 30min later someone has to go to work. Then we get a replacement, and someone else wants to go have sex. Then 30min later, a replacement is found, and two pulls later, someone gets an emergency call and has to leave.

What you just described was the reason Abyssea worm parties were so popular. SE knew they needed a way to allow large numbers of people to level without the camp restrictions or party size restrictions of the preferred merit camps. The solution was the Abyssea chain system.

- 18 people of any party composition, although some tanks and healers in the mix were needed, as well as a BLM or two
- Invisible chains that were not time dependent, but simply required that you kill the exact same mob
- Light based bonuses (blue lights for blue chests that granted exp boosts and temp items, red lights for red chests that gave other lights, amber lights for gold chests that granted items and key items, silver lights from red chests that boosted the cruor per kill, and gold lights from red chest that boosted exp per kill.)
- Due to the flexible sizing of the alliance, if people needed to drop out any time, they could.
-Due to the flexible composition of the alliance, pretty much any kind of party member could be picked up to replace them. (Again, as long as you had a few healers and magic DPS.)
- Anyone level 60+ was usually able to contribute some damage or healing, eliminating the need for level segregated parties

Exp could hit 300,000/hour in some amazing high end parties with level 99ers meriting.

The downside, of course, was that with the slack in the party and the need to have someone opening chests constantly in Abyssea to keep the lights going, you could allow someone as low as level 30 in your level 99 alliance. These "keyers" would eventually hit 99 with the skills of a level 30. It was a great way to level up your extra jobs you never intended to play, but for some purists who leveled jobs the old fashioned way, these insta-99s really rankled them.

Combine the hiney hurt over the leveling parties with the hiney hurt of Abyssea gear being pretty much best in slot for almost every job, and you had mass abandonment of FFXI for people who were only hanging around the game because they had good gear and big egos.

Their loss - they missed Empyrean weapon farming, seal parties and gem parties, and some of the more insane wacky adventures I've had in XI trying to do 18-man content with 6 people.

Not the most challenging content in FFXI. But in my whole 8.5 years of playing. The less stressful, most fun, most sense of earning decent progress EVER. Lots of things to do there. And yes I was a low level key hater. :P

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#93 Sep 10 2014 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good

Nashred

Scholar

1,732 posts

TwilightSkye wrote:

svlyons wrote:

sandpark wrote:

I actually loved abyssea when content was done at the levels that most was designed for. The only problem I had was it overpowered the xp earned by traditional parties outside abyssea resulting in there being less parties seeking to level the old fashion way.

The root reason there were fewer parties seeking to level the old fashioned way was because the old fashioned got boring in a hurry.

Yeah for some folks. Was never boring for me, but those hours spent in some parties could get really long winded. I think the longest time I merited was 12 hours. People from the original party were slowly disappearing to the point where I was eventually the last one left XD.

I think those longer Exp parties is where you made friends because you were together for so long.. People would also be able to judge your ability better.

I think those were a little long but then it was the flip side was too fast...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know I see all these comparisons to FFXI and WOW.. I dont want those games, I left FFXI for a reason and I hated WOW so i played it very little.

FFXIV needs to stand on it own and stop being a clone and come up with something unique for its self. Nothing wrong with borrowing some things from other games but at some point you need to be different.. If people wanted WOW they would play WOW. You cant beat them at their own game, they are too big and have been doing it too long. It is like retail stores trying to be like walmart, forget it they are to big and been around to long.. Define yourself make yourself different.

FFXI I know I compare this game to it allot myself but if I really wanted FFXI I would just play it. I would like to see something along the lines of dynamis or campaign.
But that does not mean it has to be exactly like those two... FFXIV still needs to be FF game but it needs to be its own game too.

I personally think MMO's spend to much time on grind and leveling for charterers or gear. This is making them all the same kind of like First/second person shooters have become, they are all trying to be like COD (boring). People are going to get bored of this eventually and it will hurt the whole group.

I would really like a MMO's that focus somewhat on other things to do.. More story, more mini games, puzzles, just anything in game that is not just fighting. To me golden saucer sounds cool.

If they do choco racing right it sounds like fun...

If this is supposed to be more of a casual game why not have lots of this other stuff.

You know I have said it before but in FFXI I would get excited about the seasonal event because they were a change of pace and a break from the grind. I get excited about them in this game but they are so short it is like they put no effort into them in this game. Most are exact same thing you do anyway like fates and are nothing different. They are not putting any effort into them..

This is a rpg and not just a fighting game.. More Rpg would be nice...

Edited, Sep 10th 2014 9:52am by Nashred

____________________________

FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#94 Sep 13 2014 at 10:09 PM Rating: Good

Lyrailis

Sage

3,441 posts

@Nashred:

FFXIV already is standing on its own merits. Not everybody agrees with those merits (long scripted fights to memorize, and severe twitch-based gameplay at endgame areas), but it DOES stand on its own merits.

It is a Final Fantasy game with all of the things you'd expect out of Final Fantasy games. It borrows ideas from WoW, FFXI, and others (who also borrowed ideas from MMOs before them), but you can't really seriously call it a "WoW-Clone". It has similarities, but it is different enough that it is certainly not a WoW Clone.

The crafting system is way different, the PvP is very low-key and hardly noticeable, the game's plot is very heavily Final Fantasy-ish with all of the similar tropes you've come to know from previous Final Fantasy games, the change job/class system, etc etc etc.

And I agree: If I want WoW, I'll play WoW (which I do... or at least will, when the 6.0.2 patch goes Live). If I want XI, I'll log onto XI.

Meanwhile, there's XIV. I see XIV as being the "right in the middle" mix or hybrid between XI and WoW. It takes awesome elements out of both games and makes a completely new game out of it. There's daily content to do (like WoW), there's group-based content that is easily accessed (like WoW), but there's also more long-term progression and better crafting (like XI). There's also class-based quest/storylines, relic armor/weapons, class changing on the fly (like XI).

XIV takes things I love in both WoW and XI and mixes them both together rather nicely.

I've only a few pet peeves with XIV that I hope they will someday address or give alternatives (mainly the huge reliance upon twitch-based gameplay at the end of the game). Other than that, though... I've had ~380 hours of sheer fun in XIV thusfar. I expect I'll probably have at least 300 more. At least.

The only other games I've played anywhere near this much, are Warframe, XI, and WoW.

Edited, Sep 14th 2014 12:10am by Lyrailis

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#95 Sep 13 2014 at 11:47 PM Rating: Good

FilthMcNasty

Scholar

4,175 posts

Lyrailis wrote:

Not everybody agrees with those merits (long scripted fights to memorize, and severe twitch-based gameplay at endgame areas), but it DOES stand on its own merits.

The 'twitch' mechanics you're talking about here don't really require you to react instantly. You already know the move is coming and you should be aware enough that you already know where you're going to move to when it comes. I know it's only a few seconds, but in comparison to other games I play... it's ages.

I play a lot of street fighter, a game based on frame data(60FPS). Punch, kick, block, fireball, dragon punch, hurricane kick, ect.. Yeah, that one. So when you throw out an attack you have to react to whether you hit(clean, trade or blocked) or whiff. If you hit, you have the chance to link other attacks to form a combo attack. Thing is, your window to press that specific attack button that will continue the combo is sometimes as low as 1/60th of a second. That to me is twitch. You don't know if the person is blocking(unless they're in the air where you can't block), you don't know if they're going to press a button at the same time as you and trade blows, you don't know if they're going to jump, backdash, ect.. It's 100% reactive gameplay.

What people here are calling 'twitch' gameplay is a mechanic that takes several seconds to come out. Since you know it's coming, you usually know the best position to move to in order to avoid it. In comparison, it's like having all day to react so it always makes me laugh when I see the word 'twitch' used to describe it.

I'd like to see what would happen if instead of a few seconds to move, every character was given some sort of 'roll' or 'jump' type evasive maneuver. It would allow them to become immune to damage/stun/knockback for half a second when used so you could essentially 'absorb' the one-shot mechanic. This still seems like a long time to me, but I'm guessing we'd still see people complain about it. /shrug

____________________________

Rinsui wrote:

Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:

30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:

Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#96 Sep 14 2014 at 7:46 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1686529065796

3,416 posts

Theonehio wrote:

You can't add a new type of weapon unless it's a sub category at present design. For example, you can add a Rapier type of sword if you want, still would be sword..still would be gladiator/paladin only, but ARR has no depth, so different types would mean nil.

For example Rapiers are generally parry swords, so you could have em have more parry than other swords..or you can have em do piercing damage rather than slashing damage, akin to FFXI. (More and more you realize that XI did more right than XIV when it came to depth.) Seriously though, he does his best to state that XI is the worst MMO to exist and nothing good was done in it, but immediately dismisses faults about ARR that even Yoshida agrees on and has to do core changes in order to introduce new classes (weapons.)

Like every single person here, you're not saying why new weapons can't be added, only that they simply... "can't". The one example you give falls flat on its face because THM/CNJ have been sharing the same weapon types since 2010. Somehow that has worked out fine, but rapiers are totally different? You clearly want to act like there is some fundamental design flaw when it doesn't even exist. Reminds me of when "the economy was about to crash" last year and that doomsday scenario also did not quite play out the way so many people envisioned it. It truly gives me a migraine when people make up problems that don't even exist when it comes to this game.

We could have 30 different great swords coming out tomorrow for GLD and no sky would fall as the result. Nothing in the current system stops this from happening. Absolutely, and literally, nothing. Design the great swords, slap GLD on them, release, done. GLD had daggers too. NIN could've been a GLD job either way, but it makes more sense to build a class around the "thief" archetype. ACN shows that 2 jobs within one class works just fine. The only thing we haven't seen yet is two jobs on one class with different weapon types, but nobody has told us what the limitation is that makes it impossible to do. What is it Theonehio? What is the limitation?

Quote:

(More and more you realize that XI did more right than XIV when it came to depth.)

Depth without balance is meaningless. Throwing darts to the wall mindlessly is what XI did excel at, you're absolutely correct. Sometimes good things came out of it too, very much so. It still doesn't make it any less unprofessional and archaic. But, sure, let's assume depth has value in itself, to **** with if it makes design sense or not. Then XI truly shines!

Edited, Sep 14th 2014 1:52pm by Hyanmen

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#97 Sep 15 2014 at 9:43 AM Rating: Default

Nashred

Scholar

1,732 posts

Lyrailis wrote:

@Nashred:

FFXIV already is standing on its own merits. Not everybody agrees with those merits (long scripted fights to memorize, and severe twitch-based gameplay at endgame areas), but it DOES stand on its own merits.

It is a Final Fantasy game with all of the things you'd expect out of Final Fantasy games. It borrows ideas from WoW, FFXI, and others (who also borrowed ideas from MMOs before them), but you can't really seriously call it a "WoW-Clone". It has similarities, but it is different enough that it is certainly not a WoW Clone.

The crafting system is way different, the PvP is very low-key and hardly noticeable, the game's plot is very heavily Final Fantasy-ish with all of the similar tropes you've come to know from previous Final Fantasy games, the change job/class system, etc etc etc.

And I agree: If I want WoW, I'll play WoW (which I do... or at least will, when the 6.0.2 patch goes Live). If I want XI, I'll log onto XI.

Meanwhile, there's XIV. I see XIV as being the "right in the middle" mix or hybrid between XI and WoW. It takes awesome elements out of both games and makes a completely new game out of it. There's daily content to do (like WoW), there's group-based content that is easily accessed (like WoW), but there's also more long-term progression and better crafting (like XI). There's also class-based quest/storylines, relic armor/weapons, class changing on the fly (like XI).

XIV takes things I love in both WoW and XI and mixes them both together rather nicely.

I've only a few pet peeves with XIV that I hope they will someday address or give alternatives (mainly the huge reliance upon twitch-based gameplay at the end of the game). Other than that, though... I've had ~380 hours of sheer fun in XIV thusfar. I expect I'll probably have at least 300 more. At least.

The only other games I've played anywhere near this much, are Warframe, XI, and WoW.

Edited, Sep 14th 2014 12:10am by Lyrailis

I dont know you kind of reinforced my point with what is bolded above..
I think you need something unique and new to this game to stand out. It is ok to borrow to a extent. Show some creativity by doing something new.. I dont think it is just a problem with FFXIV, I think the whole mmo genre is getting stale ... It is increasingly hard to come up with something new anymore..

edit:
I also think it is game industry wide and the whole game industry is going to suffer.... FPS and TPS are all getting the same, There is nothing new.. Look at COD, every year there is a new game but nothing is really added new. Basically its a map update and some different weapons. But every game in that genre is getting to be the same.. There is no risk or creativity anymore in the game industry.
If you are a newer gamer it aint so bad but if you are a older gamer everything feels been there done that feel.

The whole reason I bought a ps4 over the Xbox one is MS seems bent on only taking on FPS and sports titles.. They would not even allow FFXIV... Sony seems to take a little more risk.

Edited, Sep 15th 2014 11:57am by Nashred

____________________________

FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix

FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#98 Sep 15 2014 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent

Karlina

Sage

5,729 posts

Hyanmen wrote:

Like every single person here, you're not saying why new weapons can't be added, only that they simply... "can't".

A number of people have answered the question of why. You just ignored them all because you haven't liked the answers.

Hyanmen wrote:

We could have 30 different great swords coming out tomorrow for GLD and no sky would fall as the result. Nothing in the current system stops this from happening. Absolutely, and literally, nothing. Design the great swords, slap GLD on them, release, done. GLD had daggers too. NIN could've been a GLD job either way, but it makes more sense to build a class around the "thief" archetype. ACN shows that 2 jobs within one class works just fine. The only thing we haven't seen yet is two jobs on one class with different weapon types, but nobody has told us what the limitation is that makes it impossible to do.

It's not a limitation of the system itself. It's a design choice.

You're right. There's (probably) nothing in the programming preventing them from adding new weapon types to existing classes. I'm sure if they wanted they could make some great swords and give them a GLA/PLD tag. They just don't want to because it doesn't fit the way the class is currently designed. GLA/PLD is based ENTIRELY about shields and defense and enmity. There isn't even a non-enmity generation combo like WARs have. Giving a PLD a 2-handed sword wouldn't make them a DPS. It would just make them a crappier tank, and that's the complete opposite of the current class design. Just because you want something doesn't make it a good idea.

Edited, Sep 15th 2014 1:36pm by Karlina

____________________________

75 Rabbit/75 Sheep/75 Coeurl/75 Eft/75 Raptor/75 Hippogryph/75 Puk
75 Scorpion/75 Wamoura/75 Pixie/75 Peiste/64 Sabotender
51 Bird/41 Mandragora/40 Bee/37 Crawler/37 Bat

Items no one cares about: O
Missions no one cares about: O
Crafts no one cares about: O

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#99 Sep 15 2014 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1691972196123

Sage

5,745 posts

Karlina wrote:

Hyanmen wrote:

Like every single person here, you're not saying why new weapons can't be added, only that they simply... "can't".

A number of people have answered the question of why. You just ignored them all because you haven't liked the answers.

People are just arguing two different things at the same time. Hyanmen is arguing that SE doesn't have to limit themselves on what kinds of weapons get added for existing classes. Others are arguing why SE will choose to limit themselves on what kinds of weapons get added for existing classes.

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#100 Sep 15 2014 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent

Illsaide

Guru

141 posts

Lyrailis wrote:

I've been VERY pleasantly surprised; I have never seen a group actually fail a dungeon Pre-50. Wipe, yes. Fail and break up? No. I've seen ONE instance of us kicking an AFK player to replace them out of all the dungeons I've done. It isn't even this good in WoW (about 75% chance of succeeding the dungeon without the group breaking up and/or people getting kicked/replaced in MoP).

I wish I had your experience. Qarn was terrible for me; I think I got through on my 5th or 6th attempt because "kill the bees" was a difficult concept for others. Aurum Vale wasn't fun either, since our DPS seemed to always be some combination of MNK (me) and someone without AoE with a PLD tank.

My Qarn experiences did make me wonder "is it me?" but then after clearing that first boss and breezing through the rest of the dungeon, I got a lot more confidence in the game.

____________________________

Watch me bash my way through Vita RPGs at http://psvitarpgs.blogspot.com
Currently playing: Tales of Hearts R

▲ Page top

Quote Reply

#101 Sep 15 2014 at 2:14 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1686529065796

3,416 posts

Karlina wrote:

Hyanmen wrote:

Like every single person here, you're not saying why new weapons can't be added, only that they simply... "can't".

A number of people have answered the question of why. You just ignored them all because you haven't liked the answers.

Hyanmen wrote:

We could have 30 different great swords coming out tomorrow for GLD and no sky would fall as the result. Nothing in the current system stops this from happening. Absolutely, and literally, nothing. Design the great swords, slap GLD on them, release, done. GLD had daggers too. NIN could've been a GLD job either way, but it makes more sense to build a class around the "thief" archetype. ACN shows that 2 jobs within one class works just fine. The only thing we haven't seen yet is two jobs on one class with different weapon types, but nobody has told us what the limitation is that makes it impossible to do.

It's not a limitation of the system itself. It's a design choice.

You're right. There's (probably) nothing in the programming preventing them from adding new weapon types to existing classes. I'm sure if they wanted they could make some great swords and give them a GLA/PLD tag. They just don't want to because it doesn't fit the way the class is currently designed. GLA/PLD is based ENTIRELY about shields and defense and enmity. There isn't even a non-enmity generation combo like WARs have. Giving a PLD a 2-handed sword wouldn't make them a DPS. It would just make them a crappier tank, and that's the complete opposite of the current class design. Just because you want something doesn't make it a good idea.

Edited, Sep 15th 2014 1:36pm by Karlina

Yes, it makes sense that new weapon types would be accompanied by new jobs. GLA/PLD tag on great swords doesn't make much sense. GLA/DRK tag on the other hand would. Arcanist is designed as a DPS, yet it doesn't stop SCH from being an excellent healer. Similarly nothing is stopping GLA from becoming an excellent DPS through the DRK job.

Adding DRK to GLA and great swords to GLA/DRK is not some earth-shattering design reversal; it is nothing but an addition to the existing system, a system that is currently somewhat barebones. Just because a system is barebones doesn't mean fleshing it out is somehow against the design the system was built on.

Edited, Sep 15th 2014 8:16pm by Hyanmen

▲ Page top

Will the expansion be geared towards end-game players?Follow