Will the expansion be geared towards end-game players?Follow

I knew that you would point this out, and by you, I mean you personally, thats how obvious your attempts to troll these boards are. And I didn't say it bothers me when people stray off topic, I said it bothers me when people stray off topic to argue about things that happened in FF11.

Look, I'll be completely honest. I know next to nothing about FF11 besides what I've read about it on these forums, but the funny part is all I had to do was make gross accusations about FF11 and got a few of you to respond in defense, which is exactly what I'm talking about. People arguing over the merit of FF11 vs other games.

@ Theonehio

I will be the first person to agree that FF14 was not the game it could have been when it was launched. Honestly I feel like the level of content now is where I feel the game should have been at launch. I actually quit playing about 4 months ago and went back to WoW for awhile cause it really felt like there wasn't anything to do at end game. I just recently came back to ARR and its awesome because I have more **** to do in that game then I have time for.

I do realize FF11 was one of the top games at its time, but as you pointed out, there really wasn't much to compete with at that time either. And I have heard a lot of people on these boards say that if FF11 were to be released now, it would fall flat on its face, but the same could be said about vanilla WoW. /shrug



Thats the point though, at this point my interests in playing an MMO are beginning to dwindle, because it just feels like no one is really putting any rewarding content out anymore, just re-hashing the same garbage, and I have played my share of MMO's.

I'm actually pretty excited for destiny because, from playing the beta, I feel like it just might be the game to finally push the envelope on the whole MMORPG experience, but only time will tell, and as a FPS its not quite as comparable to something like FF.

The irony of this is us arguing about FF11 after I complained about it, which just further proves my point

@ Susanoh

Everything you said is pretty much on point and I agree with 100%, thanks for being intelligent.

At this point Ill just keep my mouth shut, its not my place by a very long shot to try to say what you can and can't post about. Maybe its just Me and the fact that I didn't play FF11 which makes it that much more annoying to have to read about it all the time while discussing a completely different game regardless of the fact that it is in the world of Final Fantasy. Also, I'm not the only person on these boards who feels its obnoxious when people constantly bring up FF11.

All Ill say is that I personally enjoy ARR, its pretty **** fun to run around on my Lalafell shooting giant fireballs in a Final Fantasy world riding around on Chocobos and ****


Edited, Aug 23rd 2014 3:28am by Jeskradha

Edited, Aug 23rd 2014 3:30am by Jeskradha

To hold to be the same experience as FFXI is not applicable. The same company might still be developing it, but it's not meant to be the same. The style of game is and for the most part has been designed to align with the modern mmo crowd. The director/producer for XI is gone from the company, who I think had a vision for a slightly more casual XI in the original XIV but things didn't pan out.

The most innovative, challenging, and immersive rpg in the past decade in my opinion is Dark Souls. The last time I checked, it only sold like 2 million copies. Diablo III, Final Fantasy XIII, and probably a few others outsold it. Most rpgs now days follow the overload you with quest, lead you by the nose, cram cutscenes, and various other things while Dark Souls goes the opposite route. This opposite route doesn't sit well with many people. It's in the same state as FFXI was to it's players. You either really loved it or hated it, and not much in between. It had many systems, one person sees some as complexity while another might see it as archaic or tedious. I am going to give an assessment. Not saying one is better than the other just my opinion of strengths and weaknesses.

Here is my opinion of vanilla FFXI to FFXIV so far:
1.Both games have good story. The pacing is a lot different. XI has a very slow spread out story pace with spectacle after long spurts. XIV has a very fast story pace with spectacle along the whole way.

2.FFXI was about the journey. No cross server play, experience point parties being the only efficient way to level,longer length of time to level, little in game party, guild, or dungeon grouping systems. The social aspect could be argued. But if you didn't hold yourself to a standard of discipline and make a few friends. You have a long road ahead of you progressing.
FFXIV is about the end game. First off Yoshi said it was and has designed it like that so far. Secondly it has all the modern mmo conventions that ease progressing. You don't need anyone to level, it encourages and has more various avenues to group and level that XI did however.

3.FFXI had more party synergy and depth in it's slower battle system. The two hour abilities often required different players performing theirs in a type of harmony to compliment each other. There was a weaponskill renkei system(one person's weaponskill could chain with one or two more players to do more damage and then be bursted by magic users for even more damage or efficiency). FFXIV has more balance and fluidity in it's faster battle system. The game doesn't suffer the class imbalances XI did. There are less skills and are more easier to manage with the cross hotbar. Then there is the limit break system which reinforces that notion of balance over inbalance.

4.XIV has a more broader, more tangible, and visible scope of crafting and gathering. There is more systems designed around these classes than just grab items and craft. XI has more randomness and mystery to it. There is even a chart with supposed ways to face while crafting to align with the crystals.

5.FFXIV has a much better UI and system interfaces for the most part. It is just downright sexy. It's weird because even though the hotbars are set up very efficiently. I find my self staring at my UI more than the action on screen versus XI.
Maybe it's just me trying to see when cool downs are refreshed.I rarely if ever had to shift attention away from the on screen action in XI.

6.FFXI has more amounts of content for battle classes but overall they don't play very differently from one another.
XIV has more variety of overall content. But I wish the variety they have had a tad more complexity and unique mechanics to differentiate each from each other. For example: Most disciples of the hand have different skills names but the mechanics are the same. So far up to level 15. While disciples of the land have more distinction between how the mechanics from fishing and botany vary drastically.

Edited, Aug 24th 2014 11:51am by sandpark

Edited, Aug 24th 2014 11:53am by sandpark

Edited, Aug 24th 2014 12:35pm by sandpark

Why would you want to wield a different weapon in XIV? The weapon skills and spells are tied to the profession not the weapon to my understanding. So the only reasons left are to look different or switch between piercing, blunt, or slashing? I think they would have to give weapon ratings again to do that or monk could wipe the floor with dragoon using a lance.

Someone said on the official forums the job/class thing was going to get reworked again. I do not know if that's true or not. But we don't about your 95% insinuation yet. SE could keep classes capped at 50 or loosen or tighten restrictions on cross classing.

Well, current system in place, we'd never get a Great Sword. I'd like a great sword on my Paladin. *shrug*

We leveled on rams just fine for quite awhile lol. It was a test of your healers rather than your DD at that time though.

You really think it's consistent with the current system to introduce a great sword for gladiators? I... respectfully disagree.

Arcanist is the primary class for two jobs yes. We're talking weapons here though.

Going back to FFXI for a moment... several different jobs can equip 'daggers'. By 'daggers' I mean weapons you'd find in the 'dagger' listing on the auction house. However, these weapons have sub categories. You have dagger, knife, kukri, baselard, kris, harpe, ect. ect. While several different jobs can equip a weapon from the general 'dagger' category, they're all limited to which sub-category of 'dagger' they can equip.

This is how I see it working for XIV and it lines up with the information they've already given about rogue and ninja both using 'daggers'. While it's true they will both wield short blades, they'll be limited in which ones they can equip. It's not a manufactured limitation, it's something that we've been hearing about for almost a decade(as it relates to XIV) or longer(if you consider how it worked in XI).

Introducing a great sword(among other weapon types) also means introducing all of the animations for characters who can wield them. That's not an 'easy fix'.


It wouldn't really make sense if they suddenly allowed classes to wield whatever they wanted to, especially if they intend to add a class that represents the great sword further down the road.

I respect that people want to wield different weapons, but it doesn't really work well with their vision of the armoury system. Even with the transmogrify system in WoW, you're limited to weapons that share the same animation(ie. same weapon type). Unfortunately, I think you're out of luck on this one.

I didn't create the armoury system. The quote I linked you is from the official website. I can also link articles, excerpts from interviews, ect. to support the ideas I've presented here if you need. I think if you actually dig into it and find out the concept behind the armoury system it'll make more sense to you. The simple translation: weapon type = class/job type.

Some people like it, some people don't. I get that you fall into the latter category, but you shouldn't dismiss what they themselves have said about their own game. You make it seem like we're here making **** up to shoot down your idea, but we're just being realistic about what they've already said about it. No need to be salty.

No one is saying that it's impossible to do, just that it's unlikely given what the armoury system has represented to this game pretty much since it's inception.

The quote you cited does not refute what I said in any shape or form. Weapon type = class/job type design still applies to what I said. You are taking SE's vague wording and interpreting it way too far. Need I remind you that mages can equip both wands and staves? Yet the armory system hasn't collapsed.



Second jobs "conflicted with the game's design philosophy as we understood it" too. The fact is this "conflict" was only in your head, and still is.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2014 8:49am by Hyanmen

We already have an exception to the rule, though, with both CNJ and THM having a choice between one handed and two handed weapons. The 2 handed is more powerful, but the one handed permits use of a shield.

Adding in a two handed sword to the GLD class thus doesn't totally violate the conventions of the game. It would, however, force a GLD to shed some defense at the gain of some offense, making them a bit more on par with MRD. PLD will likely still prefer to use the sword shield combo, but they could drop the soul crystal and go GLD if they want added DPS.

Well, given what SE has said about their vision for the armory system, we're only going to see great swords used by Gladiators if SE considers great swords and swords/daggers to all be the same type of weapon. Frankly, I'd be surprised if that's the case. The fact that such a traditional fantasy weapon isn't there yet strongly suggests that SE sees great sword as something meaningfully different. In the armory system, that difference means a different class.

As noted, the question has never been whether it's possible. Of course it is. SE can program the game however they like. The question is whether it's consistent with how SE sees the armory system. Right now, it's not.

I suspect the armory system will be gone at some point. It's too limiting -- not because SE can't do whatever they want, but because they won't do it while the system is in place.

No, it does not. You are speaking on SE's behalf even though what you say is purely a subjective perception of the system, not SE's official vision.

Nowhere is it even hinted that a different weapon type must equal a different class. Just because changing weapon type does not always change your class (but may still change your playstyle), that does not go against the current armory system.



A brand new class/job takes a lot more resources to implement. With the same resources SE can create twice as many specs to the current classes. That's a massive advantage for the specs, although you conveniently leave that out of your argument. At the very least it is obviously not so clear-cut which option ARR players would prefer.

SE has already proven that two significantly different jobs out of the same class can work out well. Unless you think that Scholar does not deserve its spot as an equal job in the current ARR just because it shares some of its functionality with Summoner. I think you'll be in a tiny minority if that's what you think.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2014 5:43pm by Hyanmen

Because it has a huge effect on the end result? At least I do care about whether I'm getting 8 specs or 4 jobs, especially if said specs are as different from each other as summoner and scholar are.