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#27 Aug 18 2014 at 9:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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While Assault provided an option to participate with a level cap, I doubt that it was used all that often. Most players reserved their tags for their static, for Nyzul Isle, or for farming points for entering Salvage. Unless you knew at least 2 other like minded players to do level capped Assault, you probably weren't going to do Assault without an end-game level job.
#28 Aug 18 2014 at 9:04 AM Rating: Default
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
I'm not sure why you didn't include Expeditionary Force there. Maybe because, while some could claim said content existed within the game, nobody did it and SE had no intentions of making it popular. If a content is implemented and nobody is there to play it, is it content at all? At least Eco-Warrior and Garrison gets a pass because at some point, somebody was doing them for a while before both events went into extinction. Which is funny because XI is supposed to be the game that makes its content last longer, amirite?


EF kinda went hand in hand with outposts, another thing that was mentioned, so I figured why mention it twice. Also because you never participated so there's no point in arguing with you since you wouldn't know what you're talking about anyway Smiley: wink


Yes, I didn't get to participate in dead content. That's totally my fault, right? Smiley: lol
#29 Aug 18 2014 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
svlyons wrote:
While Assault provided an option to participate with a level cap, I doubt that it was used all that often. Most players reserved their tags for their static, for Nyzul Isle, or for farming points for entering Salvage. Unless you knew at least 2 other like minded players to do level capped Assault, you probably weren't going to do Assault without an end-game level job.


This is one place where the community stepped in. On Seraph, we morphed the old Seraph AF Alliance into the Seraph Assault Alliance or whatever we called it.... An open, drop-in group dedicated to get people through Assaults regardless of level (provided they were high enough to enter.) Since Assault promotions were required to advance through some content AND could be gained just by repeating the easy ones often enough, it churned out a lot of First Lieutenants who would have otherwise never gotten that far.

I actually didn't finish my Captain rank until last year, when a friend decided to go for a Mythic weapon and dragged the rest of us kicking and screaming through all the Assaults we'd skipped before. Smiley: lol
#30 Aug 18 2014 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
I'm not sure why you didn't include Expeditionary Force there. Maybe because, while some could claim said content existed within the game, nobody did it and SE had no intentions of making it popular. If a content is implemented and nobody is there to play it, is it content at all? At least Eco-Warrior and Garrison gets a pass because at some point, somebody was doing them for a while before both events went into extinction. Which is funny because XI is supposed to be the game that makes its content last longer, amirite?


EF kinda went hand in hand with outposts, another thing that was mentioned, so I figured why mention it twice. Also because you never participated so there's no point in arguing with you since you wouldn't know what you're talking about anyway Smiley: wink


Yes, I didn't get to participate in dead content. That's totally my fault, right? Smiley: lol


When it was first released, my LS and I did Expeditionary Forces quite frequently, and we weren't the only ones. Trying to get outpost unlocks close to the other nation's zones was very sought after, and iirc they also had a chance of dropping mannequin parts from the chests. We had a blast doing them to unlock all the outposts. It's no ones fault but your own that you chose to ignore the content, but it definitely wasn't dead until well after it was released and there were many more travel options.

Edited, Aug 18th 2014 11:31am by BartelX
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#31 Aug 18 2014 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I dont think the problem is there aint allot to do in the game because there is, the problem is it feels all the same..

Look how many dungeons there are but they feel all the same because they are cookie cutter. They are divided in 3rds with 3 bosses each. there is a boss where you have to dodge aoe's and a dps check.. They need to change the dungeons up some.

Looks at all the beast quests there are too do, but they all feel the same and the same as other questing in the game.

I just think the games needs something new and refreshing. People will get bored eventually even if there is allot to do if it aint actually new content.

I will say the hunts are kind of new and different...

The thing about dynamis or campaign is it was new and exciting and not done at the time...

The other thing is you are forced to do thing over and over and over. Like ST, I loved CT and like ST but I run it twice a night to get oils and so far only one oil. That's allot of runs, it makes you sick of content.. The whole atma made you do so many fates you never wanted to see another fate again... Now Alexandrites and DF expert or just for tomes for the maps...

That said I am actually enjoying the game more now than I have in a long time but I took a break for a while.. 1-50 was allot of fun and then it just stopped for a while but lately I have been having allot of fun again....
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#32 Aug 18 2014 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
I'm not sure why you didn't include Expeditionary Force there. Maybe because, while some could claim said content existed within the game, nobody did it and SE had no intentions of making it popular. If a content is implemented and nobody is there to play it, is it content at all? At least Eco-Warrior and Garrison gets a pass because at some point, somebody was doing them for a while before both events went into extinction. Which is funny because XI is supposed to be the game that makes its content last longer, amirite?


EF kinda went hand in hand with outposts, another thing that was mentioned, so I figured why mention it twice. Also because you never participated so there's no point in arguing with you since you wouldn't know what you're talking about anyway Smiley: wink


Yes, I didn't get to participate in dead content. That's totally my fault, right? Smiley: lol


When it was first released, my LS and I did Expeditionary Forces quite frequently, and we weren't the only ones. Trying to get outpost unlocks close to the other nation's zones was very sought after, and iirc they also had a chance of dropping mannequin parts from the chests. We had a blast doing them to unlock all the outposts. It's no ones fault but your own that you chose to ignore the content, but it definitely wasn't dead until well after it was released and there were many more travel options.

Edited, Aug 18th 2014 11:31am by BartelX


^ He has it out against XI and anyone that plays it or played it whenever it's mentioned. His logic pretty much dictates that:

1. Assaults were dead content because no one does them heavily now, in 2014 and no one did them in 2006 by extension because..you know, it's dead content now.
2. No one did Einherjar or Sky or Sea (end game stuff) either because it's largely dead content now, in 2014, compared to 2003/2004/2007

EFs along with Eco Warrior were some of the most popular content do to because it was geared to low levels (and level capped at that) but was also an interesting way to utilize open world dungeons. EFs were an interesting way to make overworld content without it always being about 'competition'. Same with Garrisons. Mannequin stuff was insanely popular because it gave the outposts a campaign like feel and makes sense, given that sooner or later, beastmen would try to reclaim "their" land we took during the war.

.Chances are, like many, he just played the game fairly late in its life span, because nothing in an MMO becomes dead content unless it offers zero rewards or aged..which EFs are **** near Japanese launch content..12 years later you'd assume it would be dead content.


Edited, Aug 18th 2014 9:43am by Theonehio
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#33 Aug 18 2014 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
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All anyone does on these forums is talk about FF11....like seriously, every single post dissolves into an argument about FF11...

I'm not trying to troll here, but maybe you guys should get over it and stop comparing, like really tho...

I realize its hard not to, I really do, but still, this is the same **** you guys were talking about 6 months ago. Abyssea/Dynamis or whatever the **** they are, I never even played the ******* game and I feel like I have.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone. But I kind of like these boards, and it makes it extremely ******* boring to come here and have every single topic on FF14 held to the standard of how great FF11 was.
#34 Aug 19 2014 at 6:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Well, I still play XI kind of casually. It's hard not to make comparisons sometime.
#35 Aug 19 2014 at 9:32 AM Rating: Default
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Catwho wrote:
Well, I still play XI kind of casually. It's hard not to make comparisons sometime.



Honestly its not the comparisons that really bother me, cause I have a tendency to do the same thing with WoW. Its when people start arguing over **** that happened in FF11 and stop talking about what ever the initial topic was. Which, to me, seems to happens a lot. I mean isn't there a forum for 11?
#36 Aug 19 2014 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
I'm not sure why you didn't include Expeditionary Force there. Maybe because, while some could claim said content existed within the game, nobody did it and SE had no intentions of making it popular. If a content is implemented and nobody is there to play it, is it content at all? At least Eco-Warrior and Garrison gets a pass because at some point, somebody was doing them for a while before both events went into extinction. Which is funny because XI is supposed to be the game that makes its content last longer, amirite?


EF kinda went hand in hand with outposts, another thing that was mentioned, so I figured why mention it twice. Also because you never participated so there's no point in arguing with you since you wouldn't know what you're talking about anyway Smiley: wink


Yes, I didn't get to participate in dead content. That's totally my fault, right? Smiley: lol

Content isn't dead just because it isn't relevant to you specifically. Though you could debate the relevance of it at any given time, you can't deny the relevance of conquest. To be honest, the only reason I need to put here to prove that this event was worth it can be summed up in two words... travel time. There were many items(weapons, gear, materials and even quest turn ins) that you simply couldn't get unless your home nation was in the right position on the conquest ladder.

Crafters were frozen in their tracks on the skill up front due to lack of region specific materials. Adventurers couldn't get the CP weapons or gear they needed to improve their performance. Maybe there was a food you needed that was more expensive because a region was controlled by beastmen and no one could find the ingredients.

It's fine if you didn't enjoy it enough to participate, but you're oblivious if you think conquest didn't impact you in any way.

Jeskradha wrote:
Honestly its not the comparisons that really bother me, cause I have a tendency to do the same thing with WoW. Its when people start arguing over **** that happened in FF11 and stop talking about what ever the initial topic was. Which, to me, seems to happens a lot. I mean isn't there a forum for 11?

It's not uncommon(when asked to peer into the future) for people to take a look back at the past for ideas. It's all speculation, but if you think the answer aligns with what SE did in the past then XI probably deserves a mention.

[Insert spiel about XIV having the same mob types, spell names and character models as several other FF games(including XI)]

People who have played other FF titles find many things in XIV that have carried over. Many of those things are what endeared those players. I don't think it's a stretch for those players to wonder "What is it about XIV that will endear players to this game?". It's a question I often wonder if Yoshi ever thinks about...



Edited, Aug 19th 2014 11:54pm by FilthMcNasty
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#37 Aug 19 2014 at 10:06 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
It's not uncommon(when asked to peer into the future) for people to take a look back at the past for ideas.

Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
#38 Aug 19 2014 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

It's not uncommon(when asked to peer into the future) for people to take a look back at the past for ideas. It's all speculation, but if you think the answer aligns with what SE did in the past then XI probably deserves a mention.

[Insert spiel about XIV having the same mob types, spell names and character models as several other FF games(including XI)]

People who have played other FF titles find many things in XIV that have carried over. Many of those things are what endeared those players. I don't think it's a stretch for those players to wonder "What is it about XIV that will endear players to this game?". It's a question I often wonder if Yoshi ever thinks about...



Thats all fine and dandy, and I get it, I played the original FF on the NES, FF 7-10 and FF13, so yeah I see the carry over from other games, and most things I miss people are often apt to point out to me where the origins come from. Aside from all that, I'm a huge lore nerd, whether its something like Lord of the Rings, Metal Gear Solid, or Final Fantasy. So yeah I take an interest in where things originated from or whatever,

But all this still has nothing to do with threads getting thrown off topic to argue about whatever from FF11....I dunno, maybe since I didn't play it, I'm on the wrong boards.
#39 Aug 20 2014 at 12:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jeskradha wrote:
But all this still has nothing to do with threads getting thrown off topic to argue about whatever from FF11....I dunno, maybe since I didn't play it, I'm on the wrong boards.

I don't think I've ever seen a thread on ZAM(XIV forums, XI forums or other) that stays on topic. You must have missed the flowchart in the sticky...

Thread starts with a seemingly innocent question about something related to XIV >

A poster makes a valid comparison between XIV and another game to support their opinion >

Another poster bears a shield to protect XIV(though it's not necessary) >

Thread devolves into discussion about delicious baked goods and/or is locked by a moderator.



Oh and you can insert 'copious amounts of rate down' between any of all of those steps Smiley: laugh

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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#40 Aug 20 2014 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen a thread on ZAM(XIV forums, XI forums or other) that stays on topic. You must have missed the flowchart in the sticky...

Thread starts with a seemingly innocent question about something related to XIV >

A poster makes a valid comparison between XIV and another game to support their opinion >

Another poster bears a shield to protect XIV(though it's not necessary) >

Thread devolves into discussion about delicious baked goods and/or is locked by a moderator.



Oh and you can insert 'copious amounts of rate down' between any of all of those steps Smiley: laugh



Thanks that clears it all up.
#41 Aug 20 2014 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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People who have played other FF titles find many things in XIV that have carried over. Many of those things are what endeared those players. I don't think it's a stretch for those players to wonder "What is it about XIV that will endear players to this game?". It's a question I often wonder if Yoshi ever thinks about...


Armory system and one click job changes. Smiley: inlove

Battle chocobos too, although they're fulfilling the same function that Fellows did in XI (and now Trust, for that matter.) Not a new mechanic, just a new battle partner.
#42 Aug 20 2014 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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People who have played other FF titles find many things in XIV that have carried over. Many of those things are what endeared those players. I don't think it's a stretch for those players to wonder "What is it about XIV that will endear players to this game?". It's a question I often wonder if Yoshi ever thinks about...


Armory system and one click job changes. Smiley: inlove

Battle chocobos too, although they're fulfilling the same function that Fellows did in XI (and now Trust, for that matter.) Not a new mechanic, just a new battle partner.
#43 Aug 20 2014 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Jeskradha wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Well, I still play XI kind of casually. It's hard not to make comparisons sometime.

Honestly its not the comparisons that really bother me, cause I have a tendency to do the same thing with WoW. Its when people start arguing over **** that happened in FF11 and stop talking about what ever the initial topic was. Which, to me, seems to happens a lot. I mean isn't there a forum for 11?

I won't disagree that sometimes things go on too long. Personally, I feel XI made a lot of mistakes that some try to mask through nostalgia. And for those where it was their first MMO, it has a habit to stain perceptions of what is and isn't within the field today. And since XI and WoW grew up as two generally different beasts, terms like WoW-clone have a tendency to gain appeal in slandering another game. And since XIV isn't XI-2, well, here comes fanboy nerdrage.

Perhaps I'm more on the unique side in that I don't believe one should sell their soul to an individual MMO for life. Yes, XI covered like 9 years of mine, and in general, I don't regret that. But I've also played WoW to a degree, went more deeper into Rift, spent a fair chunk of time on Aion, and dabbled in various other F2P games over time just to see what they are and aren't doing. Liking a game is one thing, but hiding behind the pride of liking it tends to lead to bad things. For now, XIV has its flaws. Enough for me to not want to sub, anyway. I can't exactly cite my grievances to SE directly due to lacking exit survey and forum locks, so places like this will have to serve as the next best thing. In the end, it's not me just hating for the sake of hating, but more in seeing a potential that a few tweaks could realize. Some of it's selfish. Some of it is more altruistic. Some are outright both. And while we have our share of XI old-timers, for better or worse, this effectively being an FF sequel means we're probably going to be seeing those more than old WoW vets and the like. And if XI taught me anything, it's that the playing experience can vary wildly between people BECAUSE of people or lack thereof.
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#44 Aug 20 2014 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Quote:
People who have played other FF titles find many things in XIV that have carried over. Many of those things are what endeared those players. I don't think it's a stretch for those players to wonder "What is it about XIV that will endear players to this game?". It's a question I often wonder if Yoshi ever thinks about...


Armory system and one click job changes. Smiley: inlove


The systems you mention work well, but(personal opinion incoming) they don't stand out to me. It's exactly what I would expect because I see the same things in other games.

If you're in love with mechanics and UI I won't judge you. I just meant something a little more organic like a story that touched you(no, not in that way) or an NPC that you bonded to because of the way their character was written. People talk about the lore and the immersion, but it seems like they're carrying it over to XIV based solely on what they got from previous FF titles and not actually what they have found in Eorzea.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#45 Aug 22 2014 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Personally there's quite a bit I enjoy about xiv. Get ready for the inevitable comparison to xi to be made now. I used to grind for hours and days leveling and still not hit the cap despite staying awake for as many hours as I could on end.
XIV is a change of pace, I'm able to level up whatever job or craft I wanna do decently and still have a life outside of the game. Content in any MMO, when played on a long enough time line, gets a little stale. Valkurm dunes, Qufim, Lower Delkfutts tower, yhoater jungle, garlaige, crawlers nest, used to be the low level grind back in the day. In XIV it's dungeon grinding; similar to wow. You can also grind fates if you can get enough people to participate. Still everything gets stale after awhile. Right now for me it's the Atma stone grind. One stone in three days.... It's taking awhile for me :/
#46 Aug 22 2014 at 12:30 PM Rating: Default
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Jeskradha wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Well, I still play XI kind of casually. It's hard not to make comparisons sometime.



Honestly its not the comparisons that really bother me, cause I have a tendency to do the same thing with WoW. Its when people start arguing over **** that happened in FF11 and stop talking about what ever the initial topic was. Which, to me, seems to happens a lot. I mean isn't there a forum for 11?


FFXI developed by Squaresoft (later Square Enix), largely the typical FF talent on it.
FFXIV/ARR Developed by Square Enix, largely the same dev team based on credits.

FFXIV ARR - Obvious steps backwards from what even XI does as of today, hence comparisons can and will be made because ARR should do nothing BUT take strides forwards, the only ones who deny that it took steps backwards never played or liked XI to begin with.

Heck, Yoshida made it clear he wanted this to basically be a WoW clone, which is why people get absolutely buttmangled when you bring up SMN is a gimped Warlock on the official forums.
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#47 Aug 22 2014 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
Jeskradha wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Well, I still play XI kind of casually. It's hard not to make comparisons sometime.



Honestly its not the comparisons that really bother me, cause I have a tendency to do the same thing with WoW. Its when people start arguing over **** that happened in FF11 and stop talking about what ever the initial topic was. Which, to me, seems to happens a lot. I mean isn't there a forum for 11?


FFXI developed by Squaresoft (later Square Enix), largely the typical FF talent on it.
FFXIV/ARR Developed by Square Enix, largely the same dev team based on credits.

FFXIV ARR - Obvious steps backwards from what even XI does as of today, hence comparisons can and will be made because ARR should do nothing BUT take strides forwards, the only ones who deny that it took steps backwards never played or liked XI to begin with.

Heck, Yoshida made it clear he wanted this to basically be a WoW clone, which is why people get absolutely buttmangled when you bring up SMN is a gimped Warlock on the official forums.


See the bold....I'm not talking about comparisons, clearly some of you can't understand what I'm trying to saying, which is the part underlined.

Honestly at this point I don't really give a **** anymore cause its apparent that some of you can't move past the point that nothing, and I literally mean nothing, is ever going to compare to your experiences in FF11. And trying to hold ARR to that standard is just retarded,

If you love to drink Pepsi, and some one starts serving you Coke, its never going to taste the same no matter what they do to it.

Believe me, I miss old school WoW, I played that game for almost 8 years, I'm just not naive enough to expect anything to ever compare to those initial experiences ever again.

I'm not trying to say that FF11 sucks, or WoW is better, or whatever other words anyone wants to shove in my mouth, but honestly if that game was as great as some make it out to be, there would be, and would have been, a lot more people playing it. I'm sorry if that offends anyone but its the truth, and nothing anyone says can convince me otherwise.

It would seem to me that way more people are interested in ARR, or at the very lest ARR is drawing way more attention, which leads me to believe SE is doing something right.

I've just learned to enjoy things for what they are, not what I want them to be.

Also, I don't really expect anyone to give a **** what I think on a public forum. So please, carry on.

Thanks for clearing up who developed FF11/14, though, cause I totally wasn't aware of thatSmiley: bah


Edited, Aug 22nd 2014 3:22pm by Jeskradha
#48 Aug 22 2014 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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Jeskradha wrote:
Honestly at this point I don't really give a **** anymore cause its apparent that some of you can't move past the point that nothing, and I literally mean nothing, is ever going to compare to your experiences in FF11. And trying to hold ARR to that standard is just retarded


Now, let's see here for a second:

In FFXI, I started off with a Mog House and a Garden to myself - This is a 2002 PS2 MMORPG, keep that in mind from this point forward.

In FFXIV, I can get an Room that I can do nothing with that matters to my progression. Not only did I have to wait to join a Free Company, I had to hope they had a Free Company House with a Garden if I wanted to itch my green thumb, which by the way, is shared between all members. This also wasn't even in at Launch of XIV, at 1.23 or even at launch of ARR.

So it's retarded to expect that they wouldn't do less than what their previous MMO did, but instead do more? Heck I have to wait till 2.38 in order to get a personal house and garden.

Nothing will ever compare with your experiences, but a lot of the times people CONFUSE wanting the same experience with wanting the same basics done. For example, in XIV you only have 100 active inventory slots through 4 tabs...in FFXI, a significantly older game, you have 320 slots.

You even had 200 (I believe) in 1.x which also used the same format as XI's kind of, so the switch to 'icon based' may be why you have less active slots, but you'd then remember how they said they got rid of a lot of space in order to make retainers have more purpose.

Quote:
but honestly if that game was as great as some make it out to be, there would be, and would have been, a lot more people playing it.


XI was one of the top MMOs for so long even after WoW came out, the only MMO that was THE king MMO was MapleStory. So yes, lots more were playing it. You also forget that prior to WoW's massive marketing campaign, MMOs were a niche genre, you didn't have active hubs for MMORPGs. Gaming was largely handheld or console type genres, while some were on PCs, when you wanted to pick up an RPG? Chances are you picked up a Playstation system. Wanted a Shooter? You had your pick, but chances are you were on the PC for shooters, not MMOs. MMORPGs didn't hit mainstream until mids 2000s, it always existed but it wasn't going to pull in the amount of people that you'd think back then, which is why WoW was deemed "the MMO" by some people simply because it was so easy a dyslexic monkey can play it and thus was insanely accessible compared to MMOs prior to it.

So yes, your problem is actually the comparisons because like many, you seem to confuse people wanting to relive glory days whenever someone compares. It may seem like it in wording, but it's hard to word anything around internet forums without people twisting it to their liking.

Quote:
It would seem to me that way more people are interested in ARR, or at the very lest ARR is drawing way more attention, which leads me to believe SE is doing something right.


All WoW clones does. Remember TERA? The battle system was what got people's interest because despite everything else being a copy/paste of the 'standard' it at least tried to do something new and unique with the genre.

Meanwhile, all ARR did was "be better than 1.0."

That is LITERALLY all it did because the 'standard mmorpgs' Wow included did every feature better than ARR. SE is struggling with some of the basics on those..heck even the overworld content XI did better because they long move past 'free for all', which in your logic would say:

"you just want the experience back."

No - When your previous MMO handles overworld NMs better, you have to really think if it's someone comparing because of their experience...or because SE did it as a way to solve the *********** we seen happen with Hunts?

It also goes back to my example of the gimped Warlock - We know SMN isn't how SMN usually is in FF games, our egis are largely worthless and are an excuse to tack on extra skills to the SMN because who's to say half of the abilities on the Egis wouldn't work on the Arcanist themselves? Garuda's Contagion would have been a off GCD ability pretty easily, much like Foresight is for Marauders.

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I've just learned to enjoy things for what they are, not what I want them to be.


Everyone does - But if you sit and accept everything, then well...you see what happened to gaming and MMOs. There's a reason gaming will never get back to a point in time where our $60 purchase covers a ton of content and not just 10% content and 90% extra content that'll cost more.

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#49 Aug 22 2014 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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Jeskradha wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Jeskradha wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Well, I still play XI kind of casually. It's hard not to make comparisons sometime.



Honestly its not the comparisons that really bother me, cause I have a tendency to do the same thing with WoW. Its when people start arguing over **** that happened in FF11 and stop talking about what ever the initial topic was. Which, to me, seems to happens a lot. I mean isn't there a forum for 11?


FFXI developed by Squaresoft (later Square Enix), largely the typical FF talent on it.
FFXIV/ARR Developed by Square Enix, largely the same dev team based on credits.

FFXIV ARR - Obvious steps backwards from what even XI does as of today, hence comparisons can and will be made because ARR should do nothing BUT take strides forwards, the only ones who deny that it took steps backwards never played or liked XI to begin with.

Heck, Yoshida made it clear he wanted this to basically be a WoW clone, which is why people get absolutely buttmangled when you bring up SMN is a gimped Warlock on the official forums.


See the bold....I'm not talking about comparisons, clearly some of you can't understand what I'm trying to saying, which is the part underlined.

Honestly at this point I don't really give a **** anymore cause its apparent that some of you can't move past the point that nothing, and I literally mean nothing, is ever going to compare to your experiences in FF11. And trying to hold ARR to that standard is just retarded,

If you love to drink Pepsi, and some one starts serving you Coke, its never going to taste the same no matter what they do to it.

Believe me, I miss old school WoW, I played that game for almost 8 years, I'm just not naive enough to expect anything to ever compare to those initial experiences ever again.

I'm not trying to say that FF11 sucks, or WoW is better, or whatever other words anyone wants to shove in my mouth, but honestly if that game was as great as some make it out to be, there would be, and would have been, a lot more people playing it. I'm sorry if that offends anyone but its the truth, and nothing anyone says can convince me otherwise.

It would seem to me that way more people are interested in ARR, or at the very lest ARR is drawing way more attention, which leads me to believe SE is doing something right.

I've just learned to enjoy things for what they are, not what I want them to be.

Also, I don't really expect anyone to give a **** what I think on a public forum. So please, carry on.

Thanks for clearing up who developed FF11/14, though, cause I totally wasn't aware of thatSmiley: bah


Edited, Aug 22nd 2014 3:22pm by Jeskradha


Zam itself was predominantly a FFXI forum back in the day, so you'll find that many of us here are former FFXI players. So, comparisons are made because it's often a common frame of reference most of us share, and it certainly helps that both games are Final Fantasy MMOs. It's not necessarily out of some desire to go back to the "old days" (although sometimes it is Smiley: laugh).
#50 Aug 22 2014 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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542 posts
Jeskradha wrote:
I'm not trying to say that FF11 sucks, or WoW is better, or whatever other words anyone wants to shove in my mouth, but honestly if that game was as great as some make it out to be, there would be, and would have been, a lot more people playing it. I'm sorry if that offends anyone but its the truth, and nothing anyone says can convince me otherwise.


I don't take issue with anyone who dislikes FFXI, but I think it's worth pointing out that this statement isn't necessarily true. For that to be the case, one would have to be of the mindset that a game cannot have a rich, rewarding experience unless that same game also has mass appeal. The same goes for any media, really. Are underground bands worth discounting before you've even heard their music because they don't receive the same fanfare as a Justin Beiber or Nikki Minaj? Are cult classic films you've never seen worth discounting because they don't make a huge box office splash?

I don't think everything FFXI did was perfect but I did thoroughly enjoy the game. Still, I'll readily admit that a game like this would likely never have the same mass market appeal that some of today's games do. Not then, not now, or ever. The game was not easy for anyone to just jump into and start tearing through. After you turn in your adventurer coupon to complete your very first quest, you're more or less on your own. You learn very early on that there is danger in the world. You also learn that players benefit from each others' company, and that socializing is a key aspect to success. You learn that you need to approach content with care, because there were penalties for being careless. The number of "Leeroy Jenkins!" moments were virtually non-existent in all the years I played FFXI.

These and more are aspects that some might find adventurous and rewarding. At the same time, I don't think any of them would be a good idea if you're looking for mass appeal, especially not in today's market. People freak out if their quest markers don't tell them exactly where to go. People don't want danger in the open world because "dying isn't fun." Rather than having to socialize and plan ahead, everything is carefully set up so that not much planning is needed for anything except high level hardcore content. The vast majority of the game, you can either solo or just queue up in the duty finder and never have to talk to anyone. I believe Yoshi has even highlighted this in an interview as a strong feature to appeal to newcomers, noting that they can "treat other players like NPCs." These are great features to appeal to a wide audience who may find older games like EQ or FFXI a bit daunting, but does that make them automatically better? IMO no, that would be up to personal preference.
#51 Aug 22 2014 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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4,175 posts
Theonehio wrote:
Nothing will ever compare with your experiences, but a lot of the times people CONFUSE wanting the same experience with wanting the same basics done. For example, in XIV you only have 100 active inventory slots through 4 tabs...in FFXI, a significantly older game, you have 320 slots.

Pretty much this. I never expected XIV to measure up to the experiences I had in XI, because the game is over a decade old and I'm still having them. I did however, expect XIVs mechanics to, at the very least, stand up to those offered in XI. They've made a lot of progress, but they're still pretty far behind even games that were being released 4-5 games ago.

We're not measuring amounts of content which would clearly be unfair given the amount of time XI or other games have been out. We are measuring how well systems work, how intuitive things are and the execution of adding new content. As an example, XIV is now on it's 4th iteration of the battle system and it's still not quite on the level of games released since back in 2005.

@Jeskradha

I understand that it might annoy you that people don't stay on topic. Personally I don't really care, but you come off as hypocritical when you say here that it bothers you when people stray off the topic of XIV... yet you're pretty actively posting about Diablo III in another thread. Just putting that out there.

susanoh wrote:
For that to be the case, one would have to be of the mindset that a game cannot have a rich, rewarding experience unless that same game also has mass appeal. The same goes for any media, really.


Also, this.

It would be like saying a band sucks because you asked your friends and none of them had heard of it before. XI appealed to a smaller part of a large market. If you didn't like XI, you really didn't like it and if you did like it, you loved it. While it's true that they never reached numbers that XIV has, they steadily built their subscriber base for nearly first half decade since the game was in service. I still think that accomplishment is astonishing given that no other MMORPG had been able to do that until WoW was released and no one has done it since.
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