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Difference between casting methodsFollow

#1 Aug 07 2014 at 10:53 PM Rating: Good
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I've been playing awhile now and i still don't quite get exactly HOW each class casts magic, or how exactly "aether" is used to create spells.

From what I understand:
Conjurers - Their ability to channel elemental powers comes from the elementals agreeing to do their bidding, similar to Shaman from WoW
Thaumaturges - Channel the "less nature-friendly" elemental energies using their own willpower, similar to how a Jedi or Sith channels the Force - they have to shift between Astral and Umbral states to be able to keep up their stamina though
Arcanists - Shape aether into patterns that somehow disrupt bodily functions, although this doesn't explain how they can apparently harness the Void to create spells like Shadow Flare

But Summoners are revealed to mix "elemental" aether with essence of a Primal to summon forth their Egis. This is why you have to go to specific locations and get into a focused state of mind before the Egi appears and you fight it (i.e going to the desert and imagining a fiery inferno to summon Ifrit Egi). So from what i can see, that makes the ancient Allagan Summoners much closer to Thaumaturges than Arcanists, because unlike Conjurers and Thauamturges, Arcanists do not actually control elemental powers at all.

But then there's the requirement of having the staff or book equipped to be able to cast most spells.

Can anyone else explain the differences between the methods?

Edited, Aug 8th 2014 12:55am by JFrombaugh
#2 Aug 07 2014 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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A moogle does it
#3 Aug 08 2014 at 12:53 AM Rating: Default
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It seems to me you already understand it. I'm not sure what the question here is.
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#4 Aug 08 2014 at 4:52 AM Rating: Good
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Karlina wrote:
It seems to me you already understand it. I'm not sure what the question here is.


Some questions I have:

-If Thaumaturgy and Arcanima are both powered by one's own aether, just using different focuses to create different spells, why are Thauamturges always constantly at risk of "running out" of aether, while Arcanists never seem to have that problem?
-Do Conjurers and Thaumaturges directly work with elemental energies in a sort of "psychic" sense, the way Summoners do? If so, wouldn't they risk getting tempered? Or does the staff do all the "elemental work"?
-In WoW it's implied that if you don't follow the code, gain the elementals' favor, and try to balance them, Shaman magic will fail you. If Conjury is supposedly the same way, how come there are Voidsent and certain bandit types in the levequests that can use it?

Edited, Aug 8th 2014 6:53am by JFrombaugh

Edited, Aug 8th 2014 6:54am by JFrombaugh
#5 Aug 08 2014 at 6:17 AM Rating: Excellent
In answer to the last question, I'll defer to Terry Pratchett.

"A dog does not care if his master is a good man or a bad man. All he cares is that he likes the dog."
#6 Aug 08 2014 at 9:26 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
-If Thaumaturgy and Arcanima are both powered by one's own aether, just using different focuses to create different spells, why are Thauamturges always constantly at risk of "running out" of aether, while Arcanists never seem to have that problem?
-Do Conjurers and Thaumaturges directly work with elemental energies in a sort of "psychic" sense, the way Summoners do? If so, wouldn't they risk getting tempered? Or does the staff do all the "elemental work"?
-In WoW it's implied that if you don't follow the code, gain the elementals' favor, and try to balance them, Shaman magic will fail you. If Conjury is supposedly the same way, how come there are Voidsent and certain bandit types in the levequests that can use it?


Magic works like this:

Conjury is harnessing the aether from the world around you to create a spell of various effects. It is not specifically good or evil, but rather the power of nature. White Magic is a FAR more potent version of the same phenomenon. The elementals regulate its use in the Twelveswood because if you go overboard with conjury, it will drain ALL the aether from the surrounding world and kill everything. That's what destroyed the Amdapori culture.

Thaumaturgy is harnessing your own, personal aether to create a spell. They have to bounce between astral and umbral phases to let their internal store of aether replenish, since if you run out, you die. Black magic taps into the Void itself to both increase the amount of aether you have access to, as well as how easy it is to replenish, but might cost you your soul if the void gobbles you up or you lose control of it.

Arcanima uses a similar principle to conjury. It uses the aether from the world around you, but rather than consuming it to cast a spell, it shapes into a physical thing that does the work for the acanist. A virus to cause Virus, a barrier shape for E4E, toxic microbes for the DOT spells, and of course, glowy critters for our pets. A Summoner has absorbed some of a Primals aether by being present when one was killed, and mixes that into the regular aether they form their pet from - giving us the Egis. Making physical shapes from aether is implied to be much more complicated than simply willing a spell into existence, and is accomplished by the use of math and geometry instead of innate magical ability.
#7 Aug 08 2014 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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DarkswordDX wrote:

Thaumaturgy is harnessing your own, personal aether to create a spell. They have to bounce between astral and umbral phases to let their internal store of aether replenish, since if you run out, you die. Black magic taps into the Void itself to both increase the amount of aether you have access to, as well as how easy it is to replenish, but might cost you your soul if the void gobbles you up or you lose control of it.


Thaumaturgy has the darkest "feel" of any of the arts. But I saw something in it that was quite special. They seem to be by far the most individualistic & "on their own side" (rather than their City State's) of all the Disciplines, and when I make my characters I think individual contributions. I was very surprised at how much I liked BLM's story as well, the whole closing portals to the Void reminded me of another MMO I really like called Rift.

The whole "Astral/Umbral shift" and "drawing from the Void" seems to make Thauamturgy and Black Magic in FFXIV *very* different from Black Magic in other FF universes, where it's more or less treated as simply elemental magic. As far as Void corruption goes though, is Black Magic "corrupting" in the same way as Fel Magic from WoW?

In terms of ideals, my character very likely would have been initially drawn to Gridania and Conjury for the peace and beauty of the forest, but by the time she defeated Ifrit, she would have come to feel that Gridania had failed to live up to its reputation as a peaceful city, and lacked the tolerance of outsiders that the other two Guilds had - thus, she would no longer have any desire to serve Gridania.

DarkswordDX wrote:

Arcanima uses a similar principle to conjury. It uses the aether from the world around you, but rather than consuming it to cast a spell, it shapes into a physical thing that does the work for the acanist. A virus to cause Virus, a barrier shape for E4E, toxic microbes for the DOT spells, and of course, glowy critters for our pets. A Summoner has absorbed some of a Primals aether by being present when one was killed, and mixes that into the regular aether they form their pet from - giving us the Egis. Making physical shapes from aether is implied to be much more complicated than simply willing a spell into existence, and is accomplished by the use of math and geometry instead of innate magical ability.


The thing about "math-based" Arcane magics in general is, I have always felt that having to make calculations to create your every spell would be nothing but a liability in the heat of battle (Is that part of the reason why they're so dependent on having a Carbuncle to fight in their place?). Judging by the fact that there are far fewer Arcanist NPCs than the other Disciplines, I don't think I'm alone in my thoughts here.

It isn't really clear why the Forseer lost her ability to cast when her book got thrown into the sea. Are the patterns contained on the pages in magical ink or something?

Edited, Aug 8th 2014 1:30pm by JFrombaugh
#8 Aug 08 2014 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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JFrombaugh wrote:
It isn't really clear why the Forseer lost her ability to cast when her book got thrown into the sea. Are the patterns contained on the pages in magical ink or something?

It does take magical ink to craft a book. That's probably not really a factor though. The way I see it the more powerful books just contain more advanced calculations and stratagems.

As for why she lost her ability to cast without the book. I don't think she actually lost the ability to cast. I think it was just shock. Her prized possession was just destroyed by a man who abused her when she was younger. Can you blame her for being traumatized by that?
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#9 Aug 08 2014 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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JFrombaugh wrote:
DarkswordDX wrote:

Thaumaturgy is harnessing your own, personal aether to create a spell. They have to bounce between astral and umbral phases to let their internal store of aether replenish, since if you run out, you die. Black magic taps into the Void itself to both increase the amount of aether you have access to, as well as how easy it is to replenish, but might cost you your soul if the void gobbles you up or you lose control of it.


Thaumaturgy has the darkest "feel" of any of the arts. But I saw something in it that was quite special. They seem to be by far the most individualistic & "on their own side" (rather than their City State's) of all the Disciplines, and when I make my characters I think individual contributions. I was very surprised at how much I liked BLM's story as well, the whole closing portals to the Void reminded me of another MMO I really like called Rift.

The whole "Astral/Umbral shift" and "drawing from the Void" seems to make Thauamturgy and Black Magic in FFXIV *very* different from Black Magic in other FF universes, where it's more or less treated as simply elemental magic. As far as Void corruption goes though, is Black Magic "corrupting" in the same way as Fel Magic from WoW?
[...]

I'm going to say no.

Especially given how the BLM storyline goes.

And the whole Astral/Umbral flavor has to do with how the original class was set up in 1.0 (as in, you literally do Astral (Dia) and Umbral (Bio) damage). Obviously THAT changed, but in this case, different is good.



Edited, Aug 8th 2014 7:27pm by Ravashack
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