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How will SE address hunts in this coming maintenance?Follow

#77 Jul 30 2014 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
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I read something on another forum where a guy was out farming, happened across a B rank, and started to just solo it. Apparently one of the "zone scouts" found him with it half dead, shouted to the whole zone calling him names, telling the entire server to blacklist him, that he was an awful person; a bunch of other people showed up and started harassing him as well. Could he have called out to the zone where it was? Sure. Was he obligated to? Well, I'm not going to answer that...


If this actually happened, then the zone scout is in the wrong, and I doubt the majority of hunters gave a rip. I'd be willing to bet that the "bunch of other people" was probably just two or three people in shout. Regardless, the people who harassed him are no different than the trolls who repeatedly pull early... they care more about getting reactions from people than actually playing the game. These people exist on both "sides."

I've killed several B ranks though that I've happened across while not actively hunting. The B-rank mobs spawn once an hour, they barely (if ever) drop books, and people don't really care too strongly about them, and least not on Hyperion.

But would I just start whittling down an A rank if I found it with my FC? Hell no. I'd call that out and let others enjoy the benefits with me. No good reason not to... and it's just the right thing to do.


The point I was trying to make is that because of the way the content was designed, situations like the above exist. Whether or not it happened exactly the way he claimed it is unknown to all but him, but I can guarantee this isn't the only situation like this occurring. Had it been implemented differently they could have easily avoided these problems. But, it is what it is. I'm just pretty surprised how SE seems to not really understand that a lot of people are unhappy with the system.

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 12:19pm by BartelX
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#78 Jul 30 2014 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Had it been implemented differently they could have easily avoided these problems. But, it is what it is. I'm just pretty surprised how SE seems to not really understand that a lot of people are unhappy with the system.


I definitely agree. Implementation could have been better.

I don't think the content needs too much changing, though. This game had a dire need for real open-world content that didn't require walking up to a ??? and using Item X to pop a monster. Hunts have began to fill the void, but the system clearly needs some tweaks.

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 9:25am by Thayos
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#79 Jul 30 2014 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Everyone is complaining now, in a month there will be people wanting around hoping to get enough people to do A rank mobs. Then in 2 months they will drop the difficulty on them depending on the amount of people in the zone. Then the system will be how its intended, right now everyone is just taking the easy way to get the sands/oils. I know I am, I don't get much time to play. Trying to take advantage of summer because we only get 3 months of decent weather and with my family I don't get to play much. Trying to schedule a coil time for me is almost impossible. I personally love the new system, I get to socialize with a group of people other than just my FC. Personally i'm glad they didn't change it, I'm having a blast when i do get to play.

The only people that bothering me are the ones not out hunting and waiting for shouts, then they take their sweet as$ time to get to the hunts and complain if you only waited 5 min instead of 20 because they were afk.
#80 Jul 30 2014 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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The only people that bothering me are the ones not out hunting and waiting for shouts, then they take their sweet as$ time to get to the hunts and complain if you only waited 5 min instead of 20 because they were afk.


Don't forget the people who join your hunt party and then go afk at telecrystals or near the midpoints of large zones.

I had a couple of those the other day... after a few "hey, X, are you afk?" in party chat, each conveniently came up with reasons to leave the pt. Smiley: smile
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#81 Jul 30 2014 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Had it been implemented differently they could have easily avoided these problems. But, it is what it is. I'm just pretty surprised how SE seems to not really understand that a lot of people are unhappy with the system.


I definitely agree. Implementation could have been better.

I don't think the content needs too much changing, though. This game had a dire need for real open-world content that didn't require walking up to a ??? and using Item X to pop a monster. Hunts have began to fill the void, but the system clearly needs some tweaks.

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 9:25am by Thayos


I know there's been tons of complaining in the official forums, but beyond that, have you really heard THAT much? Overall, most people party up through PF and then just shoot the **** while roaming different areas. It's actually not a bad thing if you don't let missing one or two marks get to you. I kind of find it relaxing and just laugh when you see the train and the incoming shouts cause some pulled early, followed by someone try to reset. All followed by, I'M REPORTING YOU FOR GRIEFING!!! GO AHEAD! You then check your timers, teleport and restart a new!

The only thing I could suggest at this point is making dailies give more then 1-2 Allied notes. As far as I know, NO one does them cept for the one weekly.
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#82 Jul 30 2014 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
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You could join a party, drop the duty finder for a fight that might last 30-60 seconds, and reenter the duty finder to start all over again, but that seems silly.


That is inconvenient, and a great reason to hunt for B-rank mobs in hopes you can find one alone.

But I don't see that as a good excuse to pull early when other people are there and still arriving. At that point, you've made the decision that you'd rather queue for a dungeon than seriously participate in hunts, so you shouldn't ruin it for those who are actually hunting and not dungeon queueing.

Seriously, some of you people should do some quick online research of The Ring of Gyges. It's a fascinating concept, and applies so strongly to some of the morality I've seen on this forum and in game.

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 8:51am by Thayos


It kind of seems to me like hunts should be the perfect thing to do to kill time while waiting for the DF to pop, but as it's designed now they're not. You can't casually hunt and IMO that's a problem.

BartelX wrote:
I'm just pretty surprised how SE seems to not really understand that a lot of people are unhappy with the system.

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 12:19pm by BartelX


Why would they? Even the people that claim to hate system are still out there doing hunts because OMG MUST HAVE SANDS. I seem to be in the extreme minority as far as people who refuse to participate at all. SE looks and sees content that everyone is doing all the time... I wouldn't necessarily blame them for thinking "eh, it's working fine".

Shiener wrote:
Everyone is complaining now, in a month there will be people wanting around hoping to get enough people to do A rank mobs. Then in 2 months they will drop the difficulty on them depending on the amount of people in the zone. Then the system will be how its intended, right now everyone is just taking the easy way to get the sands/oils. I know I am, I don't get much time to play. Trying to take advantage of summer because we only get 3 months of decent weather and with my family I don't get to play much. Trying to schedule a coil time for me is almost impossible. I personally love the new system, I get to socialize with a group of people other than just my FC. Personally i'm glad they didn't change it, I'm having a blast when i do get to play.

The only people that bothering me are the ones not out hunting and waiting for shouts, then they take their sweet as$ time to get to the hunts and complain if you only waited 5 min instead of 20 because they were afk.


Frankly it's the opposite for me. As mindless and repetitive as I find hunts to be I'm going to be even less and less willing to them as my time to play decreases. I'm a teacher... right now I'm on summer break and I have all the time in the world to play and I still don't want to do hunts. Next week when summer break ends and my time becomes a valuable resource I'm going to be even *less* willing to spend time on them (if that's even possible) because I'd much rather be using it doing something much more enjoyable in game. Hell, even when I find myself logged in with nothing to do (soldiery capped, ST drop for the week obtained, etc), I still don't want to hunt... I'd rather put in a different game and have fun.
#83 Jul 30 2014 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know there's been tons of complaining in the official forums, but beyond that, have you really heard THAT much? Overall, most people party up through PF and then just shoot the sh*t while roaming different areas. It's actually not a bad thing if you don't let missing one or two marks get to you.


Truth.

A few early pullers and a few kiddos who enjoy getting nasty in /shout don't represent the actual hunt community. It's actually very addicting and fun when you get a good party... a great balance of being laid-back, fast-paced content that rewards parties that don't just sit back and let others do the work.

I agree with the above poster though how it's unfortunate that you can't really do hunts while queueing up for dungeons. I feel the same way about not being able to level my chocobo while waiting for the duty finder.
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#84 Jul 30 2014 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
I also have been surprised at how little I knew about some zones. I was in South Shroud looking around as part of the scouting party (A rank was overdue to pop) and I found a bandit camp to the southeast of Lost City that I had no idea was there. I found a perfect little slice of terrain in South Thanalan that was clearly designed for dune fishing - it dipped through the rocks right to the edge of a cliff, with dust clouds below. A random rock thing up in Outer La Noscea. The dead village at Poor Maid's Mill - you don't realize how big that abandoned village was until you actually climb through it a bit.
#85 Jul 30 2014 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
I also have been surprised at how little I knew about some zones. I was in South Shroud looking around as part of the scouting party (A rank was overdue to pop) and I found a bandit camp to the southeast of Lost City that I had no idea was there. I found a perfect little slice of terrain in South Thanalan that was clearly designed for dune fishing - it dipped through the rocks right to the edge of a cliff, with dust clouds below. A random rock thing up in Outer La Noscea. The dead village at Poor Maid's Mill - you don't realize how big that abandoned village was until you actually climb through it a bit.


Some stuff, though, were added in patches and actually didn't always exist there. Normally some random side quests they add they tend to add more camps to make the text actually make sense. For example some of the bandit camps and some beastmen camps didn't always exist until around patch 2.1 - 2.28.
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#86 Jul 30 2014 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
Yeah, I knew about the beastman camps, and everyone knows about the gradual evolution of Revenant's Toll.

I love that the world is not static. They occasionally adjusted things in XI, but it was rare. (The most iconic change I recall in XI was the day one of the telepoints around each of the crags shattered in preparation for CoP. They led to Promyvion...)
#87 Jul 30 2014 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was out helping my wife with story content, waited at the spawn location of her story mobs and saw an odd looking mob. I knew it was a good idea to clear the area before she popped the quest mobs so I attacked it. It was a B rank NM. Apparently to the server I am now worse than Hitler.
#88 Jul 30 2014 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
However, the hunt system is like a magic bag filled with money, and it will reward anyone who is there to claim it with an equally large sum of money... and that reward is the same whether it's found by one or 50 people.. Let's say there's $1,000 in it. You can take it yourself and get $1,000, or you can wait for 50 people to arrive and everyone can get $1,000, as long as you're able to have the smallest amount of cooperation, which is insanely easy to do. Just check the PF or type "/shout inv plz." Boom, done. Full credit.


There's also the possibility that someone hits "/shout inv plz," that person doesn't get an invite because the parties in the area were full or weren't paying attention. Whatever the case, the horde isn't going to sit and wait to make sure that this guy gets a party. One guy will take it upon himself to pull when he feels ready and the hunt mob gets zerged down in 5 seconds.

Another possibility. A lot of people show up. Hunt mob disappears from your screen. You get no credit.

If there were no rendering issues or contribution issues, it might be this magic money bag you're talking about that you can be sure you're going to get full credit from even if you wait, but it isn't. Remove those two issues and it might be closer to this ideal.

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 2:54pm by Susanoh
#89 Jul 30 2014 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's also the possibility that someone hits "/shout inv plz," that person doesn't get an invite because the parties in the area were full or weren't paying attention. Whatever the case, the horde isn't going to sit and wait to make sure that this guy gets a party. One guy will take it upon himself to pull when he feels ready and the hunt mob gets zerged down in 5 seconds.

Another possibility. A lot of people show up. Hunt mob disappears from your screen. You get no credit.


If the solo guy were actually serious about participating in hunts, he'd already be in a party. Hunt content is literally designed for parties. The soloer, however, has an extremely good chance of getting into a party with a minimal amount of effort, especially if he's already casually in the zone when the NM pops.

Next, what is "the horde" to you? You make it sound as if the horde is this singular entity, which isn't true. The horde is actually numerous parties and linkshells that share common goals while often working independently. Kind of like soloers, but smarter, because they've formed parties.

Last, A-rank mobs render the vast, vast, vast majority of the time, unless you're on a PS3, in which case you're just kind of screwed if you don't have some kind of AoE like medica or flash. You could make an argument that your ps3 woes are worth potentially ******** over dozens of other players, but I probably wouldn't agree with that, either. It's unfortunate though if that's the case.
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#90 Jul 30 2014 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
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I know there's been tons of complaining in the official forums, but beyond that, have you really heard THAT much? Overall, most people party up through PF and then just shoot the sh*t while roaming different areas. It's actually not a bad thing if you don't let missing one or two marks get to you.


Truth.

A few early pullers and a few kiddos who enjoy getting nasty in /shout don't represent the actual hunt community. It's actually very addicting and fun when you get a good party... a great balance of being laid-back, fast-paced content that rewards parties that don't just sit back and let others do the work.

I agree with the above poster though how it's unfortunate that you can't really do hunts while queueing up for dungeons. I feel the same way about not being able to level my chocobo while waiting for the duty finder.


Even when things are going exactly how the community wants it to and there aren't any a-holes around it's still not really all that fun though, at least to me. You teleport to an area once someone spots a mark, you move to the area all the while praying you will actually be able to see the mob, and if you are fortunate enough to see the mob you charge in and try desperately to mindlessly register enough enmity or hits to get credit for the fight. There's no thought that goes into it whatsoever, though you do get ridiculous rewards for doing so. Where is the fun in that?

Now I will freely admit that what is fun to one person may be completely different to another, and despite my not being able to wrap my head around where exactly the fun is (outside of the rewards, I guess) that's just fine. As I've said all along my problem with hunts is that it doesn't matter whether you enjoy them or not you HAVE to do them if you want seals. There are no options. I think a lot of the people who join hunt groups do them for that reason and that reason alone. But as far as I'm concerned hunts don't need to go away, they don't need to change, they can stay just the way they are for the people who, for who knows why, supposedly enjoy doing them. These people can keep their hunts. For those who don't want to mess with this content, though, there needs to be some other way to get seals. Period.

I mean, wouldn't that make everyone happy? Those of us who hate hunts can go do other things. The hunt itself becomes a lot more playable for the people who *do* enjoy them because all the people who are doing them because they feel they need to can go do other things. Everybody gets to do what they want, everyone gets seals, everyone gets to progress, everyone wins. Even the social aspect of the hunt (which most people throw out as it's biggest positive) doesn't have to be exclusive to that. Can you imagine if you could get seals in Frontlines instead? A lot of those hunt parties in PF would turn into Frontlines parties, especially if the amount of seals is somehow tied to your party's performance. The socialization would still be there, perhaps even stronger since you'd actually have to strategize with these people you've just met instead of ZERG ZERG ZERG. Frontlines can handle an increased amount of people signing up for it because it's instanced. If pre-formed parties queue up and strategize more than the typical DF party does Frontlines itself might become even more fun than it already is.

THAT is what I want. Options. Choice. It doesn't have to be Frontlines (though I think that makes a lot of sense), just give me something else I can do to get soils. It doesn't matter if hunts are more efficient than whatever the new method is (as long as it's not near worthless like daily hunts). Give those of us who hate hunts (and there are a lot of us) a different path to take. How could that possibly be a negative thing?

It won't change, though, because 99% of the playerbase seems willing to go along with the hunts whether they like them or not, and that really bums me out.
#91 Jul 30 2014 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Hunt content is literally designed for parties.


No it wasn't. They changed it to deal with how the playerbase chose to deal with hunts out of necessity, but they weren't designed to work this way. Quit claiming that they were.
#92 Jul 30 2014 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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You teleport to an area once someone spots a mark, you move to the area all the while praying you will actually be able to see the mob, and if you are fortunate enough to see the mob you charge in and try desperately to mindlessly register enough enmity or hits to get credit for the fight.


As I said earlier, the vast majority of the time I can see hunt NMs just fine, with the only exception being S-rank NMs. It could be an issue of PC power (mine meets SE's recommended specs, but isn't any better than that), or it could be simple camera panning techniques. There's usually a way to quickly make the NM reappear if it does disappear, and it just requires a bit of movement and/or zooming.

Anyway, though... what I find funny is that little bit you described above makes up the smallest portion of the hunting experience.

If I had to describe hunting from my point of view, I'd say you form a party with people who you've probably never met, but then you work together to cover as much ground as possible. Sometimes you decide to have more people scout certain zones, depending on the zones' sizes and pop window status. While chatting with your party, different party members often receive intel about A and B rank NMs up throughout Eorzea. You've got to quickly decide whether to go for the NM or keep scouting your zone. Meanwhile, you're keeping an eye on the competition (see, the horde is actually multiple groups working independently, not this big-bad horde out to make life difficult for soloers), because watching the competition can easily lead you to more NMs. If you see a few people riding off somewhere, it may not hurt to follow them. If you see someone dismount and teleport, you can do a quick player name search to see where that player teleported to, and whether that might indicate an A or S rank pop. You can also write down the names of players who seem to be in the thick of most kills, and just keep tabs on their whereabouts if you're unsure of where to go next.

Then, as Catwho said, there's the exploration. I've found A-ranked NMs tucked away in absolute nooks and crannies where nobody else has found them. The other night, I found the Central Shroud A rank basically hiding behind a tree, and I stood next to it for a good two minutes whilst all the other hunt groups kept running by (and as my party gathered to ensure we'd be there before I informed my linkshells of the position). You learn to become very familiar with the far reaches of Eorzea when being an effective NM scout.

There's also some strategy in finding B-rank mobs, which aren't tracked on any kind of spreadsheet. My favorite trick is to sweep through zones where the A rank has been dead for just over an hour, meaning there's less of a chance of those B ranks having been killed by hunt parties. I'm generally successful, too... and it's pretty cool when you're all alone faced with an NM and you're able to reward your party with seals.

In addition to all that, there's also the mostly mindless zergs when the A-rank fights actually happen, but some of these fights do require awareness. You don't want to be petrified by that East Than A rank, for example.
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#93 Jul 30 2014 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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No it wasn't. They changed it to deal with how the playerbase chose to deal with hunts out of necessity, but they weren't designed to work this way. Quit claiming that they were.


Hunt content is literally designed for parties. Present tense.
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#94 Jul 30 2014 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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On the subject of seeing mobs, ever since I upgraded my processor from a six core 3.2gig to an eight core 4.0gig I can see everything even at stupidly congested stuff like Odin. With my old processor, I could play the vast majority of the game just fine, but I never once got look at Odin or Behmoth during those fights, now it's not a problem.
#95 Jul 30 2014 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
I run an i5 Ivy bridge with an Nvidia 560ti graphic card... nothing cutting edge, but solid quality.
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#96 Jul 30 2014 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Could you mute the spammer in =10? It's irritating my Live View. Thanks. You can delete this post afterwards.
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#97 Jul 30 2014 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
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No it wasn't. They changed it to deal with how the playerbase chose to deal with hunts out of necessity, but they weren't designed to work this way. Quit claiming that they were.


Hunt content is literally designed for parties. Present tense.


Hunt content was fixed to accommodate groups of parties doing it at the same time despite the fact it was not designed to be done that way. They took mobs that were designed to be faced by individuals or small groups and boosted their HP so they could survive a bit longer against the zerg rush. They did nothing else to change the mobs to actually make them able to deal with the increased number of players beating on them at all. SE put a band-aid on the original design, they sure didn't design the mobs to deal how it is now. Odin was designed to deal with these numbers... Naul was not.

Some of these marks actually have some unique moves and mechanics... not that you'd ever see them as they're handled currently.

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 5:52pm by Raylo
#98 Jul 30 2014 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
And now that it has been fixed, it is all completely designed for parties.

The only hunt content that was originally designed for solo play were the B-rank NMs... and now those have been adjusted to be optimal for parties, too.

So, yes, all the hunt content is designed for parties.

Now, is the content designed for a dozen parties to attack hunt NMs all at once? Probably not. But that's what any of us are arguing over.
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#99 Jul 30 2014 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Now, is the content designed for a dozen parties to attack hunt NMs all at once? Probably not. But that's what any of us are arguing over.

I think ultimately, it is. Complaints I've heard are mostly people who don't enjoy the event because it's a constant scramble to get to these mobs in time so they can get credit. Having mobs scale based on the number of people engaged is not new technology. If they don't want to move the event outside of open world, that's understandable. They should at least consider a compromise that allows players to enjoy the content consistently if they're not going to take other measures.
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#100 Jul 30 2014 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
And now that it has been fixed, it is all completely designed for parties.

The only hunt content that was originally designed for solo play were the B-rank NMs... and now those have been adjusted to be optimal for parties, too.

So, yes, all the hunt content is designed for parties.

Now, is the content designed for a dozen parties to attack hunt NMs all at once? Probably not. But that's what any of us are arguing over.


If SE let you enter a 4 man dungeon with 8 people and just buffed the HP of all the mobs, would you say that it was designed for 8 players? No.

The only way you could claim it was designed for parties - the only way - is because for whatever reason you get exponentially more credit for being in a party then you do solo. And why is that anyways? Do you instantly do exponentially more damage by being in a party than someone does solo? Do you instantly create more enmity by being in a party than someone does solo? Are your cures exponentially stronger when you're in a party than someone who is solo? NO. That solo person who was there for the whole fight did just as much as you did, but because of the way SE programmed rewards you get 10-20x the rewards than the solo player did. Like I said, why? It's just a stupid limitation that accomplishes nothing. Who cares if a solo player gets full credit for the mark? How does that affect your experience at all?

Thayos wrote:
However, the hunt system is like a magic bag filled with money, and it will reward anyone who is there to claim it with an equally large sum of money... and that reward is the same whether it's found by one or 50 people.. Let's say there's $1,000 in it. You can take it yourself and get $1,000, or you can wait for 50 people to arrive and everyone can get $1,000, as long as you're able to have the smallest amount of cooperation, which is insanely easy to do.
Edited, Jul 30th 2014 7:41am by Thayos


You said that. The hunt system is a magic bag filled with money, there to reward everyone the same rewards. Unless you're solo for some reason, in which case TOO BAD.

What would happen if instead of 8 parties of 8 people showing up, all 64 players showed up individually? The mark would still die the same way. Would everyone get full credit? Maybe the community should mandate that we just do it that way!

You know what hunts remind me of? A T2 farm. You stand around for awhile waiting for the enrage timer/mark to pop. Everyone then rushes in and mindlessly spams combos and cures. Flashy effects will be going off, filling your screen. You have virtually no chance of dying and the level of challenge is nil. Once ADS/the mark is dead, you get rewards that are way better than something that takes so little work should get. Neither is done the way they were probably designed to be done, but damned if SE is ever going to do anything about it. Lather, rinse, and repeat ad nauseam.

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 6:46pm by Raylo

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 6:47pm by Raylo
#101 Jul 30 2014 at 4:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
If the solo guy were actually serious about participating in hunts, he'd already be in a party. Hunt content is literally designed for parties. The soloer, however, has an extremely good chance of getting into a party with a minimal amount of effort, especially if he's already casually in the zone when the NM pops.

Next, what is "the horde" to you? You make it sound as if the horde is this singular entity, which isn't true. The horde is actually numerous parties and linkshells that share common goals while often working independently. Kind of like soloers, but smarter, because they've formed parties.

Last, A-rank mobs render the vast, vast, vast majority of the time, unless you're on a PS3, in which case you're just kind of screwed if you don't have some kind of AoE like medica or flash. You could make an argument that your ps3 woes are worth potentially ******** over dozens of other players, but I probably wouldn't agree with that, either. It's unfortunate though if that's the case.


If he were serious about hunts, you're right, he might be in a party. But then, he might not be serious about hunts. He might just be strolling by and see a cool named mob pop. So what? Hunts are just mobs that spawn somewhere in the world. They're no more yours than they are theirs. And again, if he decides to call in the cavalry, there's a chance he'll get nothing due to potential rendering/contribution issues. You can easily say things like "there's an extremely good chance of getting into a party with minimal effort" but then you cannot ignore the possibility that that won't happen, that people will come and kill it and hardly anyone will care. The question is whether the player should try and "be nice" even though there is a possibility that they will lose credit for doing so. Which I'd say is completely up to them.

Since day one, some hunts have been tuned specifically to be taken down by a solo player, and even now they are just as easy, the only difference is a HP boost which wasn't even that significant. SE can say that hunts were designed this way or that way all they want, but if their content doesn't match their statements, players will individually adjust their strategy according to the content itself. If that means that a solo player may think twice before inviting the horde because there is a chance that they'll lose credit, that's what will happen. If that means that some other players join server wide linkshell networks and take on content designed for a few players with 40+ people in a 3 second fight that makes FATEs look like Twintania by comparison, then that's what will happen as well. What we're seeing now is a direct result of the way that hunts were designed. And not what SE thinks they should be designed to be, but what they actually are. Players are just trying to make the best of the situation they were given, regardless of the way that they decide to handle it, and that's perfectly understandable for players on all sides of the fence.

As for the horde, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought it was a "singular entity" but I never meant to imply that. I see the horde as a bunch of people stampeding around on mounts all trying to get to a similar destination. In the context of this discussion, it's a large group that may help you and may not (if you're a solo player looking for a group), and it very likely contains at least one person who is willing to pull regardless of whether you get help or not.

Edited, Jul 30th 2014 7:07pm by Susanoh
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