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How can SCH fit an introverted character?Follow

#1 Jul 11 2014 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry I'm not really able leave well enough alone here, but...

One thing that really surprised me back when I asked about a Disciple of Magic class to choose for my character, at least one person suggested Scholar would work well in terms of the "likes to work alone" trait, and I honestly was completely baffled by this.

To me, a SCH would make, by far, the least amount of sense for a person who prefers to work alone because it's confirmed by Alka Zolka's translations that the primary duty of the ancient Nymian SCHs was leading soldiers into battle and ensuring that the battle plans they thought up were carried out efficiently.

Using football as an analogy, they seem to be a lot like coaches, while the Marauders are the players on the field. From what I can see, there is no "introspective" side to SCHs. They exist for two purposes: Direct and lead their brigades in battle, all the while providing advanced shielding & healing with the help of their fairies. If I had to guess, I would assume their "stereotypical" personalities were actually a lot closer to being like General Raubahn or Lightning from FF13 than say for instance Minfilia or the Forseer from the Arcanist questline.

So why would a natural loner (especially one who is also peaceful by nature and dislikes war) become a SCH in the first place??

Edited, Jul 11th 2014 9:26pm by JFrombaugh
#2 Jul 11 2014 at 7:37 PM Rating: Decent
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And why couldn't an introspective/loner type be a battle commander? You think every leader fits under the same personality type? You're over-thinking a very simple concept.
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#3 Jul 11 2014 at 7:53 PM Rating: Excellent
The very fact that the leader of the arcanist guild is kind of a loner answers your question, I think.
#4 Jul 11 2014 at 9:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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JFrombaugh wrote:
To me, a SCH would make, by far, the least amount of sense for a person who prefers to work alone because it's confirmed by Alka Zolka's translations that the primary duty of the ancient Nymian SCHs was leading soldiers into battle and ensuring that the battle plans they thought up were carried out efficiently.

That was 1500 years ago. Today "you" are the only scholar around, and you're just an adventurer.
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#5 Jul 11 2014 at 9:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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There is no reason why you can't make anything work if you want it to. Throughout many games and movies there have been evil paladins and white mages, good dark knights and black mages, anything is possible. Pick what you want and make it work. RP is limited by your imagination.
#6 Jul 11 2014 at 11:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
There is no reason why you can't make anything work if you want it to. Throughout many games and movies there have been evil paladins and white mages, good dark knights and black mages, anything is possible. Pick what you want and make it work. RP is limited by your imagination.


This. Slight spoilers ahead from one of the base class storylines.

For example, despite that conjurers are supposed to care all about nature and the wind and earth, there's a character in the storyline who couldn't care less about nature at all and just wants to heal people.

You could probably find hundreds of examples like this in fiction (heck, and in real life) of someone taking up a profession who doesn't necessarily fit the stereotypical personality type for that profession.
#7 Jul 11 2014 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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BrokenFox wrote:
And why couldn't an introspective/loner type be a battle commander? You think every leader fits under the same personality type? You're over-thinking a very simple concept.


Because battle commanders have to be able to exert dominance, intimidate others and tell them what to do.

Seriously though, I personally would blame WoW for coloring my judgement of military types. In that game (at least in recent expansions), pretty much any person with any kind of tie to a military force is more or less a cut-and-paste of the Soldier from Team Fortress 2, or the Trooper from SWTOR.

Catwho wrote:
The very fact that the leader of the arcanist guild is kind of a loner answers your question, I think.


But I thought that the main difference between an Arcanist and a Scholar is that Arcanists aren't actually "military men"; rather they just work as customs agents and are sometimes allowed to move on to other adventures if they prove themselves?



Edited, Jul 12th 2014 1:36am by JFrombaugh

Edited, Jul 12th 2014 1:47am by JFrombaugh
#8 Jul 11 2014 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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JFrombaugh wrote:
But I thought that the main difference between an Arcanist and a Scholar is that Arcanists aren't actually "military men"; rather they just work as customs agents and are sometimes allowed to move on to other adventures if they prove themselves?

Scholars aren't military either. Just because they were military back in ancient Nym doesn't mean they are today. There hasn't been a Nymian army for over a thousand years. In modern times a scholar is just an arcanist who has bonded with a faery and wears a silly mortarboard hat.
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#9 Jul 12 2014 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
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Another thought I just had:

SWTOR's Jedi Knight class is described as often serving in leadership positions whenever they fight alongside Republic soldiers - however the Jedi Knight character is a very valued member of the order because of his ability to keep a cool head in any situation, yet show amazing bravery. He doesn't really display the rah-rah jingoism that the Trooper does, because the Jedi order believes in peace at all costs, tempering your passion, remaining humble in the face of war - which, to me, makes them VERY different from most of the formal Republic military.

In FFXIV there seems to be quite the difference between the military orders, even though all of them are regimented forces. Some are committed to peace (like the Twin Adder), others very much embody the patriotic soldier spirit (like the Immortal Flames). The only clue we've gotten about Nym is that their patron deity was Oschon the Wanderer, which MAY suggest that they actually had a much looser structural organization than, say for instance, Ishgard - and relied on the Scholars' intellect and cool heads to hold their own against their more bellicose neighbors. But until someone in Eorzea invents a time machine, we'll never know.


Edited, Jul 12th 2014 2:18am by JFrombaugh
#10 Jul 12 2014 at 12:34 AM Rating: Good
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What the hell are you talking about?
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#11 Jul 12 2014 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent
JFrombaugh wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
And why couldn't an introspective/loner type be a battle commander? You think every leader fits under the same personality type? You're over-thinking a very simple concept.


Because battle commanders have to be able to exert dominance, intimidate others and tell them what to do.

Seriously though, I personally would blame WoW for coloring my judgement of military types. In that game (at least in recent expansions), pretty much any person with any kind of tie to a military force is more or less a cut-and-paste of the Soldier from Team Fortress 2, or the Trooper from SWTOR.

Catwho wrote:
The very fact that the leader of the arcanist guild is kind of a loner answers your question, I think.


But I thought that the main difference between an Arcanist and a Scholar is that Arcanists aren't actually "military men"; rather they just work as customs agents and are sometimes allowed to move on to other adventures if they prove themselves?


Good battle commanders don't intimidate, they inspire trust. Their soldiers follow them not because they are afraid to, but because they believe in them.

Actually, that applies to leadership across the board. If you're intimidated by your manager at work you're gonna have a tough time performing your job.

In FFXI, some of the military leaders are very private, quiet people (Semih Lfihna for example, and Perih Vashai when she was in the Crystal War.) Some are big friendly puppies (Sir Ragelise of San d'Oria (S)). Some are wired up bundles of anger (Wolfgang in Jeuno, Prince Trion.) Some are cool and levelheaded (General Curilla.)
#12 Jul 12 2014 at 5:49 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, so don't go by stereotypes. It never works out.
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#13 Jul 12 2014 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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JFrombaugh wrote:
Because battle commanders have to be able to exert dominance, intimidate others and tell them what to do.


Leaders who lead with intimidation instead of leadership are often found on the losing side of the war. There have been quite a few generals who are introverts. General Krulak (Sp?) was the Commandant of the Marines, General Patton was supposedly an introvert too... So while not common, history shows some introverts can be very effective leaders.
#14 Jul 12 2014 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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You're letting yourself be influenced too easily by stereotypes of the class. In our free company we have an introverted Scholar, fearful of people, only fully commits to combat in times of extreme stress - shy, hides from people and prefers the company of his tomes. Characters enjoy trying to work him out of his shyness and the awkwardness during public events (he has a determinant stutter) adds to to the flavor of our roleplays.

Its funny how his multiple familiars and pets really do cause his problem to be worse in some respects. The diversity in THEIR personality also is a treat to have in the company, and the character, even though he's an alt, is very popular - in spite of being an introvert.
#15 Jul 12 2014 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
Also, keep in mind that the introvert/extrovert thing is a spectrum, not black and white. I'm an introvert in real life because being around large crowds or even more than a handful of people at once is very draining on me. After I hang out with friends, I need some quiet time with my thoughts or to just do my own thing. I despise gossip, find most pop culture tedious, and dislike places with loud noises, including movie theaters and big concerts.

This doesn't mean I hate people or that I'm a bad leader. I ran a successful Dynamis shell for four years in FFXI. I just need some recharge time along after being among too many other people at once, and I prefer to keep the number of close friends I have on the low side.

Edited, Jul 12th 2014 1:27pm by Catwho
#16 Jul 12 2014 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Good battle commanders don't intimidate, they inspire trust. Their soldiers follow them not because they are afraid to, but because they believe in them.


Then again, if you've ever had a drill sergeant, you'd know just how "inspiring" fear can be. Smiley: lol
#17 Jul 12 2014 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Good battle commanders don't intimidate, they inspire trust. Their soldiers follow them not because they are afraid to, but because they believe in them.


Then again, if you've ever had a drill sergeant, you'd know just how "inspiring" fear can be. Smiley: lol
In most cases I would assume that fear turns to understanding and respect. At least it did for me and most of the people I know.
#18 Jul 13 2014 at 10:46 PM Rating: Good
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Like I've said before, yes, I do have a tendency to fixate on stereotypes, but my experience is that in fiction they are played very straight, far more than they actually would be in real life, for the purpose of keeping the story interesting.

Catwho wrote:

Good battle commanders don't intimidate, they inspire trust. Their soldiers follow them not because they are afraid to, but because they believe in them.

Actually, that applies to leadership across the board. If you're intimidated by your manager at work you're gonna have a tough time performing your job.


Perrin wrote:

Leaders who lead with intimidation instead of leadership are often found on the losing side of the war.


And this is something that pretty much every NPC in FFXIV has yet to learn.

Catwho wrote:
Also, keep in mind that the introvert/extrovert thing is a spectrum, not black and white. I'm an introvert in real life because being around large crowds or even more than a handful of people at once is very draining on me. After I hang out with friends, I need some quiet time with my thoughts or to just do my own thing. I despise gossip, find most pop culture tedious, and dislike places with loud noises, including movie theaters and big concerts.

This doesn't mean I hate people or that I'm a bad leader. I ran a successful Dynamis shell for four years in FFXI. I just need some recharge time along after being among too many other people at once, and I prefer to keep the number of close friends I have on the low side.

Edited, Jul 12th 2014 1:27pm by Catwho


You and me both pal. That's the way my character is, as well. It's not that she dislikes other people or is incapable of working with others, but she tends to feel more "drained" by other people, excitement, and stimulation rather than "charged up" by it.

Edited, Jul 14th 2014 2:18am by JFrombaugh
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