when the game first came out the first set off main scenario quests consist of, force popped fights, fights that you could only enter alone, dungeons and multiple 8 man battles/dungeons...
even since then each new addition has been "watch a buncha a cutscenes and do ONE primal fight at the end (with the exception of 2.1 which made you do guildhests in between)... has SE just gotten lazy? I mean their OTHER MMOs story patches had plenty of fighting and dungeoning inbetween cutscenes.
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I think SE should start incorporating the new dungeons into Follow
Not lazy, just "standard"...and even then the standard MMOs does a bit more than SE is doing with XIV. I think they need to incorporate "AFTER THE FACT" quests and cutscenes when you leave the dungeons since outside of the main scenario, it's like they don't exist in the world at all. Or hell chain the ******** Lost City of Amdapor? There's more to that city than 1 path way if it's a whole civilization.
For example spoilers aside, that particular NPC was pretty known..where's the NPC dialogue revolving around that throughout gridania? The issue with instance everything is they tend to be confined in that instance, the outside world with some exceptions seem to not know of their existence beyond: "hey did you know (dungeon) exists? scary huh?" while the majority of NPCs are akin to the "I like shorts" trainer from Pokemon.
It does feel like they're taking the kinda lazy route at times but it only feels lazy because the standard design is lazy, it's good for the casual base and people who want progress every time they log in (since time commitment is a bad thing in an MMO apparently.)
As said, the only hope is that the expansion will be something like XI's zilart, something that completely changes things, hopefully for the better.
For example spoilers aside, that particular NPC was pretty known..where's the NPC dialogue revolving around that throughout gridania? The issue with instance everything is they tend to be confined in that instance, the outside world with some exceptions seem to not know of their existence beyond: "hey did you know (dungeon) exists? scary huh?" while the majority of NPCs are akin to the "I like shorts" trainer from Pokemon.
It does feel like they're taking the kinda lazy route at times but it only feels lazy because the standard design is lazy, it's good for the casual base and people who want progress every time they log in (since time commitment is a bad thing in an MMO apparently.)
As said, the only hope is that the expansion will be something like XI's zilart, something that completely changes things, hopefully for the better.
It's all a bit cliché too.
Even the latest ones have them basicly tell you that you're the only guy for the job since you make it a habit of saving the world over and over again from the most dangerous things. And they considder you a hero among heroes.
Yet if you were to walk into the adventurer's guild in any of the three starter cities now they go, "Hello, nice to meet you! My name is Balderion (or insert here) and welcome to the Adventuring Guild" and basicly treat you like nothing ever happened, despite them helping you do most of it...
But at the same time, SE has put itself in a bit of a corner with all these updates and changes. They try and put everything into existing lore, but most of it makes no sense. Even the whole Shantotto aspect of the BLM quests, who basicly lived many hundreds of years ago, a most fearful mage who's name has been bastardized into shatotto and her similarly named job stone yet for some reason the main arguement of SE has always been "no no, it's not the same world at all, it's completely diffirent and has no relevance to FFXI", yet everything looks the same, has the same stuff, even the smallshells minion references to it.
It's like they cant do those things properly...
Even the latest ones have them basicly tell you that you're the only guy for the job since you make it a habit of saving the world over and over again from the most dangerous things. And they considder you a hero among heroes.
Yet if you were to walk into the adventurer's guild in any of the three starter cities now they go, "Hello, nice to meet you! My name is Balderion (or insert here) and welcome to the Adventuring Guild" and basicly treat you like nothing ever happened, despite them helping you do most of it...
But at the same time, SE has put itself in a bit of a corner with all these updates and changes. They try and put everything into existing lore, but most of it makes no sense. Even the whole Shantotto aspect of the BLM quests, who basicly lived many hundreds of years ago, a most fearful mage who's name has been bastardized into shatotto and her similarly named job stone yet for some reason the main arguement of SE has always been "no no, it's not the same world at all, it's completely diffirent and has no relevance to FFXI", yet everything looks the same, has the same stuff, even the smallshells minion references to it.
It's like they cant do those things properly...
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
Yeah, they say that to appease the hardcore XIV players who says XI should have never existed and is the worst MMO to ever be released, but the design team obviously feel differently. They need to pick a direction and go with it, that's the problem with the standard design, it's usually all over the place.
Remember, NPCs have amnesia when it comes to Warriors of Light - and apparently anyone that reminds them of the pre-Calamity Warriors of Light.
I think it's the Echo. It screws up people's memories of you, even as it lets you borrow some of their memories.
I think it's the Echo. It screws up people's memories of you, even as it lets you borrow some of their memories.
With respect, Catwho, we can always count on you to try and make some sense out of what SE is doing, even when you also know all is lost. All..is lost. :P
All is lost! Cue the crying Brazilians!
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Catwho wrote:
Remember, NPCs have amnesia when it comes to Warriors of Light - and apparently anyone that reminds them of the pre-Calamity Warriors of Light.
I think it's the Echo. It screws up people's memories of you, even as it lets you borrow some of their memories.
I think it's the Echo. It screws up people's memories of you, even as it lets you borrow some of their memories.
While true, I don't think their amnesia stretches to what we do now unless they suffer from welcome to mysida syndrome. :p Then again I guess with only field areas and everything else is in a magic bubble, it's hard to know something happened lol.
Quote:
Yet if you were to walk into the adventurer's guild in any of the three starter cities now they go, "Hello, nice to meet you! My name is Balderion (or insert here) and welcome to the Adventuring Guild" and basicly treat you like nothing ever happened, despite them helping you do most of it...
I've just never had much of a problem with this. I mean, clearly, the more realistic greeting from the guild master might be something like, "Holy tap-dancing Christ, it's THAYOS FREAKING REDBLADE in MY guild!!!! OMG!!!!!" That said, I don't let something as inconsequential as an NPC greeting get in the way of my gaming.
Who knows? Perhaps these guys are so wrapped up in their guild business that they just don't really give a flying **** who you are?
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
XIV 1.0... #neverremember 
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
Of course, people seem to forget that each patch they mention some NPC's dialogs have been changed to recognize players who have completed certain quests or questlines...
For Example, remember the Blind Winemaster? If you've completed first Coil missions, why not talk to him and see what he has to say?
Completed the Main Storyline, see what the Adventurer Guild representatives have to say to you now...
To say that no NPC ever recognizes your achievement, even in the public areas - is outdated information now. Most NPCs remember you. Quest givers, if you're questing horridly out of order, might not recognize you.
For Example, remember the Blind Winemaster? If you've completed first Coil missions, why not talk to him and see what he has to say?
Completed the Main Storyline, see what the Adventurer Guild representatives have to say to you now...
To say that no NPC ever recognizes your achievement, even in the public areas - is outdated information now. Most NPCs remember you. Quest givers, if you're questing horridly out of order, might not recognize you.
I noticed that someone referred to me as Titan's Bane today.... lol
It's mostly because people expected a story based series to take more consideration to the story. XI did it, so why can't XIV? Hell XI's base had more recognition as you progressed which is why through Fame (as much as people may have hated raising it) it at least made NPCs more aware. The Vanilla story was they didn't know who we were, 2.1 and on? We're known now..since you know, we kinda got rid of the last generals stationed in this part of Eorzea, not something you'd forget :p
Let's not even mention getting rid of Leviathan and Moogles when there was a company of people who got rid of Levia the first time (even though we never heard of em before but everyone else in eorzea has...)...and so on so forth. It's just a bit weird there's no follow ups ya know? It's not even that much extra work, it's damn near an extra flag or two lol.
They do this in following patches because they didn't do the work in the same patch. So "outdated"? Not really - It just takes a following update for SE to do it for whatever reason.
Edited, Jul 9th 2014 12:51pm by Theonehio
Let's not even mention getting rid of Leviathan and Moogles when there was a company of people who got rid of Levia the first time (even though we never heard of em before but everyone else in eorzea has...)...and so on so forth. It's just a bit weird there's no follow ups ya know? It's not even that much extra work, it's damn near an extra flag or two lol.
Hyrist wrote:
Of course, people seem to forget that each patch they mention some NPC's dialogs have been changed to recognize players who have completed certain quests or questlines...
For Example, remember the Blind Winemaster? If you've completed first Coil missions, why not talk to him and see what he has to say?
Completed the Main Storyline, see what the Adventurer Guild representatives have to say to you now...
To say that no NPC ever recognizes your achievement, even in the public areas - is outdated information now. Most NPCs remember you. Quest givers, if you're questing horridly out of order, might not recognize you.
For Example, remember the Blind Winemaster? If you've completed first Coil missions, why not talk to him and see what he has to say?
Completed the Main Storyline, see what the Adventurer Guild representatives have to say to you now...
To say that no NPC ever recognizes your achievement, even in the public areas - is outdated information now. Most NPCs remember you. Quest givers, if you're questing horridly out of order, might not recognize you.
They do this in following patches because they didn't do the work in the same patch. So "outdated"? Not really - It just takes a following update for SE to do it for whatever reason.
Edited, Jul 9th 2014 12:51pm by Theonehio
Quote:
XI did it, so why can't XIV? Hell XI's base had more recognition as you progressed which is why through Fame (as much as people may have hated raising it) it at least made NPCs more aware.
Let's be real... XI was the same way. With the exception of a few fame NPCs, most NPCs said the same things on Launch Day that they did many years later.
In XIV, the devs actually do a pretty good job overall of keeping relevant NPCs/dialogue updated with your progress.... especially with this patch. In fact, the overall storytelling through the quests I've done so far have been exceptionally good.
Edited, Jul 9th 2014 1:46pm by Thayos
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
StateAlchemist, Om nom nom... wrote:
I noticed that someone referred to me as Titan's Bane today.... lol
Haha, you know why right?
So many people are the Heart of the Party. Is that by choice? Don't think so. They don't even know it.
Maybe title should have been off by default since so many people have their own nameplate display off.
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Yet if you were to walk into the adventurer's guild in any of the three starter cities now they go, "Hello, nice to meet you! My name is Balderion (or insert here) and welcome to the Adventuring Guild" and basicly treat you like nothing ever happened, despite them helping you do most of it...
I've just never had much of a problem with this. I mean, clearly, the more realistic greeting from the guild master might be something like, "Holy tap-dancing Christ, it's THAYOS FREAKING REDBLADE in MY guild!!!! OMG!!!!!" That said, I don't let something as inconsequential as an NPC greeting get in the way of my gaming.
Who knows? Perhaps these guys are so wrapped up in their guild business that they just don't really give a flying **** who you are?
Now THAT was hilarious.. I actually LOLed. If NPCs greeted me like that everytime I spoke to em Id definitely stop talkin to em, that would get annoying REAL quick lol
Thayos wrote:
Let's be real... XI was the same way. With the exception of a few fame NPCs, most NPCs said the same things on Launch Day that they did many years later.
I remember they changed one of the mithra NPCs on the way up to the East gate, way back in the earlier days of FFXI. I noticed this, thought "WTF?", and talked to her. Lo and behold, the NPC explained that every now and again they were assigned different posts. No quest, no reason to have that dialogue that I could tell except the sheer atmosphere of it.
Unfortunately that was a rare case.
But still, that the non-quest NPCs in XIV turn to look at you, react to your presence, and have their own little bits of dialogue... I love that. That couple in the top end of the Coerthas castle is my favorite; well, and I have to admit that "My only wisssh is to catch a fisssh -- they're so juicy-sweet!" has for some reason stuck in my head like an advertising jingle and I look forward to it every time I pick up a beast quest at that spot.
Yeah, newer engines has better tracking techniques and is present in almost every game/mmo nowadays so I would have honestly questioned if they didn't considering they stated they worked on NPC routines as part of the "liveliness." xD.
Edited, Jul 10th 2014 9:00am by Theonehio
Edited, Jul 10th 2014 9:00am by Theonehio
My favorite subtle change was when the RMT figured out how to hack the gambler NPC in South San d'Oria. SE nuked the NPC from the game temporarily, and put a moogle there that explained that he had a tummyache.
What I like about XIV is that some NPCs are only visible to you in the open world while you have the content active. So after you've completed whatever quest or mission was in that area, the NPCs are gone because they went home.
And nobody else but you sees the NPC there, unless they are also on that quest.
Sure beats XI's "There is nothing out of the ordinary here" messages from permanent quest triggers in the environment.
What I like about XIV is that some NPCs are only visible to you in the open world while you have the content active. So after you've completed whatever quest or mission was in that area, the NPCs are gone because they went home.
And nobody else but you sees the NPC there, unless they are also on that quest. Sure beats XI's "There is nothing out of the ordinary here" messages from permanent quest triggers in the environment.
Catwho wrote:
My favorite subtle change was when the RMT figured out how to hack the gambler NPC in South San d'Oria. SE nuked the NPC from the game temporarily, and put a moogle there that explained that he had a tummyache.
What I like about XIV is that some NPCs are only visible to you in the open world while you have the content active. So after you've completed whatever quest or mission was in that area, the NPCs are gone because they went home. And nobody else but you sees the NPC there, unless they are also on that quest.
Sure beats XI's "There is nothing out of the ordinary here" messages from permanent quest triggers in the environment.
What I like about XIV is that some NPCs are only visible to you in the open world while you have the content active. So after you've completed whatever quest or mission was in that area, the NPCs are gone because they went home.
And nobody else but you sees the NPC there, unless they are also on that quest. Sure beats XI's "There is nothing out of the ordinary here" messages from permanent quest triggers in the environment.
Most memorable one was from a diffirent game entirely, Star Trek Online. At one point during an update a spacestation accidentally got removed, and upon a quick maintenance, it was put back, along with several new NPC guards interrogating a Klingon, demanding to know how he managed to cloak the entire station.
It's fun to see how developers deal with things that go bad and the fixes / lore they come up with afterwards.
I dont think XIV has had any major hickups like that yet.
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
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