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The Economy Sure Is Strange...Follow

#1 Jul 01 2014 at 10:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am a master miner and armorer. This has put me in a unique situation. I am able to mine 3 star materials, but on my server (Famfrit) they really don't sell for all that much (HQ ferberite is 1k-2k, HQ native gold around 5k). As a master armorer, I am able to make 3 star recipes like Tidal Barding, which requires a gold ingot (master goldsmith recipe), and Wolfram gear, which requires wolfram ingots (master blacksmith recipe). Gold Ingots go for around 500k on my server, while Wolfram goes for around 400k. The wolfram armor I can make from these materials... seems to sell almost exactly at cost.

So essentially, it's like this:
1) 3 star ores sell for very low price.
2) 3 star ores are used to make 3 star ingots that sell for a huge profit.
3) 3 star ingots are used to make 3 star armor/barding, which sells for little to no profit.
...and I'm stuck at step 1 and 3 while the people in step 2 make all the money (~2-5k gil + 500 myth = 400k+? I'd do that all day long!)

Granted it's my own fault for not realizing this ahead of time, and I'm not really complaining about the experience because I did enjoy the process of mastering both skills for the most part, but the market just strikes me as crazy lol. It's like I'm screwed two times over!

Some things I'm wondering:
-Is this typical across other servers, or is this unique to mine?
-Doesn't it kind of defeat the whole "SE is pushing us towards focusing primarily on one craft in particular" if master recipes require master recipes of a different craft?
-Is there anything that could be done to fix it?


#2 Jul 01 2014 at 10:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Raylo wrote:

-Is there anything that could be done to fix it?


For the sake of discussion, I'll answer my own question.
1) I'm hoping new recipes in 2.3 help to drive up the cost of 3 star ores. Maybe the new craftable high ilvl jewelry will create a higher demand for native gold and/or rubies, driving those prices up.
2) I'm hoping armorers will be given the ability to make wolfram ingots on our own. Blacksmiths and armorers can already both make all of the same ingots as it is, so why shouldn't the same be true for wolfram ingots? The problem with this right now is that wolfram ingots are pretty much the only thing master blacksmiths have going for them right now so they're going to need some new things to craft in order to give them something unique to do.

That'd pretty much fix all of my problems, lol. That could just be me being selfish, though. ;)
#3 Jul 01 2014 at 10:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Frankly, I don't bother with the high end crafts. I've made my millions on the lower end of the market.

That said, what you need to do is find a goldsmithing buddy to buy those materials at a reduced cost.
#4 Jul 02 2014 at 12:19 AM Rating: Decent
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What is gil for in XIV these days?
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#5 Jul 02 2014 at 12:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
What is gil for in XIV these days?


The next big money sink they put in. FC airships or something.

As for OP, it doesn't seem that way on my server, Leviathan. My friend sells finished goods, 2 and 3 star, for profit all the time.
#6 Jul 02 2014 at 1:41 AM Rating: Good
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The absolute best crafted gear is on par with Relic gear, which makes crafting the stuff, kind of a waste of time. Relic is very easy to get, Weathered gear is better and is almost as easy to get, and then there's High Allaghan stuff, which is better than all of it. Why should people spend money on gear when it's it's subpar at best, and will soon be outdated?

There is absolutely nothing that will make crafting relevant in this game until they finally come out with something crafted that is the best gear at the time. Even then, unless they keep pace with dropped gear each update, it's only a temporary fix.
#7 Jul 02 2014 at 2:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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It was a rhetorical question.

Turin wrote:
There is absolutely nothing that will make crafting relevant in this game until they finally come out with something crafted that is the best gear at the time. Even then, unless they keep pace with dropped gear each update, it's only a temporary fix.

It makes sense to leave them even. If you make crafted gear better, why raid? Make raiding gear better, why craft? People already complain that there isn't enough to do in game.

Personally, I think crafted gear should be a gateway to raiding but... they still have the issue of anyone being able to do anything. Crafting is too easy to level so they'd have to put some sort of hurdle in the way to force players toward commerce. I get the feeling that they really don't want to do that. They seem a bit oversensitive when it comes to player trading.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#8 Jul 02 2014 at 6:33 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
It was a rhetorical question.

Turin wrote:
There is absolutely nothing that will make crafting relevant in this game until they finally come out with something crafted that is the best gear at the time. Even then, unless they keep pace with dropped gear each update, it's only a temporary fix.

It makes sense to leave them even. If you make crafted gear better, why raid? Make raiding gear better, why craft? People already complain that there isn't enough to do in game.

Personally, I think crafted gear should be a gateway to raiding but... they still have the issue of anyone being able to do anything. Crafting is too easy to level so they'd have to put some sort of hurdle in the way to force players toward commerce. I get the feeling that they really don't want to do that. They seem a bit oversensitive when it comes to player trading.

Crafted gear doesnt have to be the absolute very best.

But at the very least they could make it relevant. Right now you can craft gear that is equal in stats to what we had at launch 6 months ago.

I'm not saying they should make it i115 or whatever, but since Soldiery can be spend on essentially free i100 gear, having an (expensive) alternative crafted that is also i100 would be nice. Everyone happy and people can still raid for i110+ if they so want to.

Right now there's absolutely zero incentive to purchase crafted gear of i90 that doesnt even have all that interesting thats.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2014 3:31pm by KojiroSoma
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#9 Jul 02 2014 at 6:34 AM Rating: Excellent
I moved to Ultros from Excalibur(Legacy). The economy there seems much better. There is a lot of stuff I can actually sell. And with personal rooms being released in 2.3(?) furnishings will be in much higher demand.
#10 Jul 02 2014 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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For the leviathan barding recipe:

Find a 3-star gold smith and tell him that you are interested in buying his NQ gold ingot. The HQ version sells for a lot on my server and it`s really hard to craft HQ gold ingot all the time.

Since the barding cannot be HQed, you could get those NQ ingot at a reduced price.
#11 Jul 02 2014 at 7:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
Frankly, I don't bother with the high end crafts. I've made my millions on the lower end of the market.



This is exactly it. Scour the board for mid-range recipes and see which ones will net you the most. Since you're already a Miner, I would almost recommend leveling Goldsmith to maximize Armorer. The only thing you'd have to buy is crystals for crafting. Everything else is pure profit.
#12 Jul 02 2014 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, don't bother with high end stuff - every idiot and their mother is fighting to see who's the dumbest at undercutting and eventually crashing everything, for example HQ saurian shouldn't ever be undercut under any NQ (specially as this is a popular vanity choice too), so low/mid materials like velveteen and so on tends to net some nice gil as it's also related to leves for leveling < The main thing.

Otherwise, there is economy, just people who sell mats, people who crash markets due to idiocy and people who only really make stuff for themselves. Housing items may be worth something though for a week before said idiots hit the market.
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#13 Jul 02 2014 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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FatChocobro wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Frankly, I don't bother with the high end crafts. I've made my millions on the lower end of the market.



This is exactly it. Scour the board for mid-range recipes and see which ones will net you the most. Since you're already a Miner, I would almost recommend leveling Goldsmith to maximize Armorer. The only thing you'd have to buy is crystals for crafting. Everything else is pure profit.


Don't get me wrong, I have ways of making gil. It just strikes me odd that you put all this time and effort into mastering a craft and, at least in the case of armorer, it doesn't seem to net you much. An armorer basically can't make anything without materials that come from master recipes of another craft, and that seems to be a unique problem to armorcraft as far as I can tell. It seems every other craft has at least a couple things they can make completely independent of any other craft...

I actually do have Goldsmith leveled to 50, and when I decided to take the plunge and master a craft I had to decide between the two. The deciding factor to me was the master recipes available... a master goldsmith can make gold ingots and a bunch of furniture that would probably be hard to sell, while a master armorer could make all this fancy armor and barding which seemed like an advantage at the time. Unfortunately it seems I chose poorly as those master goldmiths can make a huge profit on those gold ingots, and it looks like they'll have some new jewelry recipes to craft coming up in 2.3. Oh well!

The more I think about the more I really hope they give armorers the ability to make wolfram ingots in 2.3. Master blacksmiths will need new recipes to offset the loss of that unique recipe, but it looks like they may be getting the chance to make new upgraded primal weapons so that may be happening anyways. Though I suppose that could also have a positive impact on master armorers as well...
#14 Jul 02 2014 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
The absolute best crafted gear is on par with Relic gear, which makes crafting the stuff, kind of a waste of time. Relic is very easy to get, Weathered gear is better and is almost as easy to get, and then there's High Allaghan stuff, which is better than all of it. Why should people spend money on gear when it's it's subpar at best, and will soon be outdated?

There is absolutely nothing that will make crafting relevant in this game until they finally come out with something crafted that is the best gear at the time. Even then, unless they keep pace with dropped gear each update, it's only a temporary fix.


I think there are cases where it does come in handy. For one, these pieces are meldable with materia, so in some cases they end up being better than the allagan or myth equivalents. Second, there are cases where maybe it's easier to buy i90 gear with gil than it is to spend myth or farm the coil. For example, I play PLD as my main job but want to gear up DRG as my secondary job. For the longest time I was spending all of my soldiery on my PLD. My myth was going towards animus books, and then towards alexandrite maps. I don't have a ton of time to play as is so it's hard for me to spend a lot of time farming the coil for allagan drops for my DRG. And even though I've finished spending soldiery on my PLD and can now spend it on my DRG, because of the cap it's still going to be weeks before I can get all the pieces I want. In a case like this, the crafted i90 gear is an attractive option. Admittedly, though, CT2 may make it less attractive if I can pick up i100 gear in there...
#15 Jul 02 2014 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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With novus being what it is, materia, and by extension common spiritbond items, will go up in cost and value.
#16 Jul 02 2014 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:
I'm not saying they should make it i115 or whatever, but since Soldiery can be spend on essentially free i100 gear, having an (expensive) alternative crafted that is also i100 would be nice. Everyone happy and people can still raid for i110+ if they so want to.


I agree that their should be an alternative, I just don't think SE is willing to implement it the way it should be done. They adopted the progression system of other games like WoW, but the crafting doesn't follow the same system for whatever reason...

In WoW you have crafters that are able to make gear with comparable stats(minus set bonuses) to current normal tier gear. They put it behind a bit of a lockout in that you have to craft a set amount of materials that are on a cooldown. You can't just go out and farm up materials for 20 breastplates of shiny goodness. Instead, you have to craft a material on a daily cooldown so it takes you maybe a week or so before you can make a single piece. I haven't played in a little while, but I don't recall XIV having anything like that in place.

It works well because it keeps crafting relevant(since you can always profit on at least a few synths) and the economy is player driven. XIV on the other hand seems to want to stick with controlling the economy via adding and removing gil from the economy. If we saw anything like this in XIV I would expect players to be able to purchase items from NPCs on a cooldown rather than leaving it on the players.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#17 Jul 02 2014 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,550 posts
Raylo wrote:

Some things I'm wondering:
-Is this typical across other servers, or is this unique to mine?
-Doesn't it kind of defeat the whole "SE is pushing us towards focusing primarily on one craft in particular" if master recipes require master recipes of a different craft?
-Is there anything that could be done to fix it?


Blacksmith and goldsmith got shafted this last patch, with their master recipes limited to very very very few items. The investment required to become a "master" in a craft is excessively crazy. So as a result, many people focused on the more seemingly lucrative weaver, leatherworker, and armorer crafts initially, and got to the part where they have to craft 50 2 star hq non tradable items for the tool and said, "Eh, maybe later".

So there are likely few master blacksmiths and goldsmiths across the board, demand is high, supply is low, and they are free to set their own prices.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2014 3:19pm by Valkayree
#18 Jul 02 2014 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
Raylo wrote:

Some things I'm wondering:
-Is this typical across other servers, or is this unique to mine?
-Doesn't it kind of defeat the whole "SE is pushing us towards focusing primarily on one craft in particular" if master recipes require master recipes of a different craft?
-Is there anything that could be done to fix it?


Blacksmith and goldsmith got shafted this last patch, with their master recipes limited to very very very few items. The investment required to become a "master" in a craft is excessively crazy. So as a result, many people focused on the more seemingly lucrative weaver, leatherworker, and armorer crafts initially, and got to the part where they have to craft 50 2 star hq non tradable items for the tool and said, "Eh, maybe later".

So there are likely few master blacksmiths and goldsmiths across the board, demand is high, supply is low, and they are free to set their own prices.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2014 3:19pm by Valkayree


Makes sense. I guess in the long run it worked out pretty well for them considering the profits they can make at the moment.
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